Tim Drake And The Date That Wasn't - What To Do With Robin? 

I feel like sexuality completely aside, Tim should have gone to Ivy Town and gone to college. That would've bee a great time to explore Tim's character as the smartest of the Robins in his own solo series. Like it would be awesome to maybe see him work with The Atom or something and increase his tech repertoire while he's at school dealing with college life. That's just my take.

Tim Drake, the textbook example of how you can turn a much loved and popular character who could hold his own series for 150+ issues, into a "dead weight" character through lack of planning and poor judgement a.k.a the entire young justice line if the New52 (teen titans, Superboy, etc.). Tim's just been floundering since then as his relationships with his extended cast and side-cast was errased in 2011 and his backstory mangled into something else entirely (the protective custody and allies backstory which was then retconned back to his original origin). I thought his return to detective comics was an improvement (although returning him to robin, not so much), but then they went and killed him again. The "Drake" fiasco was embarrassing, and his allocation to the side-bar in a batman anthology book is just sad. Tim being bi, I've been down to that since Connor Kent came back to life after final crisis, but the revaluation being in an anthology book as opposed to a dedicated Tim Drake title means that this relationship (with an established side character, so points go to that) isn't going to be developed enough to be interesting and Bernard is just going to be a doormat character (my greatest fear) which is how I read their interaction here. I mean, who (in a gay/bi/straight relationship in their late teens) is that understanding and caring after being rainchecked for their (one must assume) first date? I would love to see Tim's relationships develop, with all the drama that entitles, but we're not going to get that in an anthology book where the main focus of the issue will change based on the story. In other words, what I'm saying is "let's get a Timdrake series where he tries to break Conner out if the suicide squad and re-establishes himself as "the tomorrow knight" and not "nightwing-lite"

Bi or not the biggest problem is the story still gives off "we don't know what we should do with Tim" vibes

On a pure aesthetic note, as much as different writers can't seem to agree on Tim's personality (or even his identity, superhero or otherwise), I can't help but be nitpicky on how artists can't agree on what he looks like!! The mid-part undercut he's got in this book feels like it suits him and is an update of his older look, but then other books give him shorter, spiked hair (and he looks a different age pretty much every appearance). I'm biased cause Tim's my favourite Robin but PLEASE give this boy some consistency. 😭

I think one thing that could have strengthen this "Drake is bi" arc is if him and Stephanie broke up on her terms as maybe he was comming out to her and was just confused and a mess, so she ended the relationship in order to allow him to explore and find himself more. Maybe she could play a supporting role and even if it hurts a little to see him in a relationship with someone else she still sees Drakes happiness to be more important and his journey of finding himself. It could also be a nice role reversal after he finds out more about himself to then help Stephanie find more happiness too after their break up. I would rather see them be good friends that do trually love each other and still cares even if not in a relationship anymore rather then Steph being pushed into the void just so the writer can take shortcuts.

As much as we’d like to think our favourite characters have ‘personalities’ that are etched in stone, it all comes down to who’s writing that character at the time. Batman used to tell Dad Jokes, then he just scowled confidently, then he was uncertain and guilty all the time. The question is will the next Tim Drake writer have a story for this character that will interest readers, or will they scratch their head how to treat the character sensitively and just kill him until someone in the future brings him back, perhaps with another different personality.

I feel Tim needs what Dick Grayson got. His own City. A new place, where he can figure out who and what he is. A chance to get away from every one within the Family. No titans, no bats, just Tim fighting a villain (old or new) who challenges him. They should lean into his detective side more. Make him more of the detective than Batman, where his stories don't necessarily boil down to a big fight. But down to his knowledge and deductive skills. Throw away this whole, "Gotta compete for the Robin position." If Damien never showed up, Tim would be a Forever Robin, who never grew passed it.

"There's no time, because there's crime." Sasha always comes through with the one-liners.

"IS dating him tough?" Sasha with the big children's book report energy.

My favourite character under the Robin title and loved his short lived Red Robin, since New 52 though it feels like DC have been lost on what to do with him.

it's really frustrating that we didn't get to see an actual resolution to Tim's identity crisis. he was asking who he was, what he was, and that could have been the stuff of a really meaty story arc, but now it's just been brushed aside in a too-neat, too-clean way. after going and reading it, I feel like I read spoilers for a series that didn't exist, like I missed all the actually interesting moments in between. show us the awkward first date! show us Tim talking to Stephanie about it! show us anything!!

Your commentary was pure gold. 5 months later, and we're still waiting for them to do something with Tim. His relationship with Bernard has been fleshed out more in two issues of the Wayne family adventures than it has in the mainline comics so far.

One of the positives of this whole discourse hootenanny, is the revelation that, in different ways, people still care about the legacy of these characters. But it's also revealed the lack of editorial consistency over the years, with the many different teams coming through writing so many different versions of these characters, sometimes deliberately contradicting a previous version, resulting in loss of original characterization the original creator had for the character. This also has the unintended effect of Hindering the experience of new readers by showing that the things they may like about a character are subject to change, if not forgotten depending on the team. But also potentially offensive to long time readers, by implying that their support never mattered, and neither does the versions of the characters they liked

To me, as a bi(?) person, at the end of it he has to be with Steph or Connor. There’s more substance with both. I’m personally more of a hardcore TimSteph shipper bc that was the first comic romance that I was interested in, but I wouldn’t mind if he ended up with Connor. If they wanted to go that route, they should’ve had Connor come out instead of Jon. Bernard would be the test run and then to Connor, and it would be natural. Though at the same time I really don’t know why I’m even writing this. Even with TimSteph, i get bored. All I want is good ass detective Tim Drake solo series like the 90s. THATS IT. Also why cant he just be called Sparrow or even like Wren, why is it hard?

Tim deserves better...such a underrated character

*I would love for them to take this opportunity to use some common experiences among bi men to explain why he hasnt been forward or "out" about it in the past.* I know for me, I knew I was bi when I was 14 and I had a crush on a cute emo guy. But I didn't come out for 12 years and acted almost exclusively straight until that point because of some hateful comments and implications I'd heard from both gay and straight people in my life. A relationship I had for almost 2 years said that she was "worried" when we first met off of a dating app cause it said I was also interested in guys. "I thought you were serious or something and I was worried" were her words. And you get a lot of comments like that. People telling you that you are unattractive or suspicious because you are bi. The jokes coming from the gay community, rejection from hetero people, and suspicion from both sides (specifically for bi men, although I know that bi women also have to deal with this from the lesbian community). It really makes you really feel like an outcast sometimes.

The whole Tim comes out as Bi thing just feels like a Bendis. What I mean by that it was done just to be done and won’t actually be handled and given substance until a different writer come on and makes it interesting.

Im optimistic we get more about tim's bisexuality in the future and i think im with you on maybe seeing that his relationship with Bernard isnt perfect. His relationship with Steph felt more real because it had issues that got worked through, to validate a homosexual relationship i believe you have to show it on the same level as a heterosexual one. that includes the rough patches and difficulites. also I really need to see his talk with Stephanie cause as much as I love Tim exploring his Bisexaulity im sick of DC stepping on Stephanie. An off panel breakup that she is all too ok with is not working for the Steph fans. I dont care if the convo happens in Batgirls or Urban Legends but it needs to happen, her feelings matter too.

All I want is for Tim to once again have a prominent roll like he did in the 90s/2000s. Just give him an ongoing and I’ll be happy.

My only question about all this is simply, why is Tim Drake still a Robin? My understanding had always been that at this point in current DC Comics continuity, there is only supposed to be one Robin- and that Robin is Damian Wayne because all the other Robins had aged out. Why not keep Tim in the Batfamily as a completely different character instead of sending him a step back in his crimefighting career, i.e. Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing, Jason Todd becomes Red Hood, Cassandra Cain becomes Black Bat, and so on.

The Bat Hug is located next to the Bat Shark Repellent on Batman's utility belt. Shenanigans happen when he pulls the wrong one out. "It's King Shark!" *Bat Hug*

I don’t like how some writers waste Tim’s potential. At least fan fics embrace him more.

I don't even read comics but the way sasha tells the stories is a highlight in my day

I think as well Stephanie being a lead in Batgirls ongoing could be to blame as well as to why we never "saw" the breakup. She's off doing her thing with Cass while Tim is-- yeah. Poor Tim. The story felt real off to me given all the setup in the prior arc. It just felt so-- meh. But that's been a problem a lot in the Bat books. We "hear" but never "see". Babs talked to Cass/Steph about them being Batgirls-- off-panel. Tim/Steph broke up-- off-panel. Cass/Steph bonded again-- off-panel after Steph kind hurt Cass bad-- on panel. Cass got over Kate killing Basil and the two mended-- off-panel. There are some story ideas just being left to the curb when they should be picked up. Thankfully, the Dick and the ghosts of Batgirls story along with the Azrael story rescued my utter disappointment from the story with Tim.

It really sucks that they've just made Bernard a generic boyfriend in this when he did at one point have a fun and interesting personality back in the Robin comics. :(

I still maintaining turning Tim drake robin bisexual was forced from the very beginning.

The way you pump out videos this frequently I consider this channel a blessing for my appreciation of comics

"You have no power over me." 10/10. I hope to see Stephanie and Bernard interact.

Still trying to figure out why a bisexual guy had to breakup with his girlfriend... My understanding is that he can be attracted to her AND discovering how he really feels about being attracted to men. Hell, they could actually take their time and focus on the breakup as he becomes more and more enamored with Bernard and less attracted to Stephanie. But, again, didn't expect any nuance from DC Comics about, well, anything.

As much as I'm open and interested in the angle of this story about Tim exploring his sexuality ultimately I just hope this journey of self exploration ends with Tim getting a new code name. I am so tired of him being just plain Robin. "Drake" was horrible and "Red Robin" seems like its forever off the table (for some reason) so I hope whatever these people in the Bat Editorial Office can come up with something good.

I would've been far more interested if it involved Connor, and generally I like Tim and Steph as a pair, but if you're gonna have two characters date, maybe show that sometime? I dunno. It feels like they were interested in the bisexual identity, but not the reality.

Next make Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain date That’s shit has been my ship for years, I NEED IT

One thing that disappoints me after Tim and Jon coming out as bi is their terrible tastes in men. Bernard is bland and a non-character. And Jon's boyfriend is just yikes to me. It's like they design him to just be as LGBT pandering as possible. I'd prefer if they date another new or established hero instead of these randos that will probably be forgotten in like two years.

I remember that they did this to Ice man, and now he's forgotten in the background.

Tim Drake should be made into the new Spy/Crime Smasher and really beef up his tech usage like he employs more advanced tech than the other Batfamily members such as holograms of himself distract enemies and use teleportation tech to avoid them and have his detective skills grow to the point that it's almost like he can predict crimes while they are happening ore even before.

I always love how your videos give such detailed analysis of the comic, but you are always mindful of how others might respond to certain panels or dialog. And not to be flippant, but the QOTV for me was the Doge moment:'Such discussion. Much video.'🤣

My feeling has always been that anything added to the character should benefit the story. Sadly, with the more dramatic things happening off panel, this doesn't seem to be much of anything. I really hope that some of this gets shown at some point.

The recent appearance of Tim/Bernard in Wayne Family Adventures more or less cemented that this relationship is doomed to be boring.

Honestly the comments from the creative team makes this sound like nothing more than Slash Fan Fiction.

Love how you handled the content

I like so far how they're handling the story. I would like a new Red Robin (he did come in to save the day hollering that name) series to allow the space to explore what happened on that date, and allow Bernard space to grow as a character and partner. But I'm a Tim Drake diehard and think that the "he wants the mantle" BS is slander on the highest level.

Very thoughtful crit, Sasha! Gave me a lot to gnaw on.

Wholesome BatDad moment. BatDad doesn't care if you are LGBT+. BatDad cares that you're happy and fighting crime

Hi Sasha, Tim Drake is My Favorite Robin ( at least Chuck Dixon’s version) I don’t care about His sexuality as long as the stories are well written…A part of me will always ship Tim& Steph , but if well written I will get over it just like in Smallville going from CLANA too CLOIS… DC just needs to give this writer a format Mini or Limited series where She can truly establish Her Take on the Character…Is that a Teen Titan Omnibus on the top shelf behind you? Keep Up The Great Work Sasha 🖖🏾

tough topic, that you handled very well, you are quite good at really presenting both sides of any issue without letting your own opinion cloud a particular review, you let your audience decide from themselves. i like that and it is why i keep coming back. great channel, great content.

Thanks for recapping this. I don't read the title, but I like what you are saying that it is creating a conversation. So many people shut people out based on one thing they read or heard without really giving the person and yourself a chance to grow with civil discourse. We need to treat representation, even when it isn't perfect, as a means for discussion and learning. If this book starts one conversation then good on them. And I'm all for anything that puts Tim back in the spotlight. I might go pick these up just to see what I think.

Personally what they should have done with Tim Drake was to have him walk away from the Robin for a bit and become a detective on his own since he has the skills to be a PI on the road. Sometimes they know how to bait a fandom into getting pissed off when said fans are right on the money with they're doing with the character. We've seen this too many times where they half-ass sexual aspects because that "Comics Code" mentality is still rooted deep within the Big 2 where something slide by yet serious topics get shafted. It's like they're fearful of committing to what they've done. It feels like somebody does something drastic and then you hear them jumping ship next week. These characters deserve better, the readers deserve better.

I think this is one of my favourite videos of yours. Thank you for being so fair and balanced. Tim is my favourite character, and being Bi myself, I was apprehensive about what DC is doing with him (Like if they’d reduce him to nothing but his sexuality.) Hopefully the character can soon reclaim some of glory (and personality) from the good old days and not be constantly fumbled.

I just fell in love with this channel

Great video! DC's misuse of Tim continues to frustrate me. I love that he came out. I think there's a lot of textual support the decision to make him bisexual. That's an awesome direction for the character. The problem is that they aren't using Tim. As soon as Damian was made, they just... gave up on Tim which is really uncool. He didn't die. He didn't quit. DC just stopped using him... Red Robin was a great direction. I think they need to push Tim into his own role similar to Nightwing. They need to make something unique for him. Red Robin was a great step in the right direction... I just wish they'd continue his evolution. Him coming out in a tertiary book is kinda already not great (for example, this could have happened during his participation in that amazing Detective Comics run) so it almost makes his coming out not matter since he's not being fully utilized. I just want him to keep growing. He's wonderful and has a lot of story potential. I just want to see it. #justicefortimdrake

I will always love how she voices Batman Great video

This may actually be her best video ever I loved it and will keep coming back.

Nice animated series reference for me thank you happy Christmas

You have so many good points and make everything very digestible (with great voices) but I can't get over Tom Druke.

You should cover more Wayne family adventures

Tim’s role in the Bat-Family has become less and less certain. He was originally created as a replacement for Jason Todd but now Jason is back from the dead as Red Hood and some readers like him with his bad boy ways. Damian, Bruce’s biological son who is trained by the League of Assassins took the mantle of Robin, which push Tim further asides. Tim is Bruce’s adoptive son but I never felt any brotherly relationship between Tim and Damian. His time as Red Robin tried to re-establish his position in DC universe… then New 52 happened. Tim was given a terrible new origin story and questionable Red Robin costume. Rebirth gave Tim’s original origin back (I think) but between new 52 and Rebirth, the Batman team gained Duke Thomas / The Signal and Luke Fox / Batwing. Luke is a tech / computer expert, which kind of step into Tim’s expertise too. Tim is now under codename Robin again but the Robin name is still associated with Damian so it feeIs like Tim is under Damian’s shadow. I like Tim but I feel DC doesn’t know what to do with him now. Was he too perfect as a character when first created? Maybe DC needs to retire Tim as a costumed crime fighter altogether.

You’re good, Sasha. Great roundup, as we share similar opinions

1. Dc and Marvel habe this really annoying tendency to habe these grandiose coming outs that lead nowhere. Almost like its designed to make headlines and nothing more. 2. Tim needs an arc. Like bad. If its him being bi, cool, but id rather they work on his place in the Batman universe as it is. 3. If they cared about representatiom, they would push their actual gay characters to the forefront with stories and arcs worth their time. Not just running to screen rant for attention.

I think what was most hilarious about Tim’s coming out is that you would have news articles saying “Robin comes out as Gay” (which…you know….but of an oversimplification) but you would just have people spiraling because they thought that this was DICK robin who came out gay and not Tim 😂😂

18:14 13 year old me just snorted OJ outta my nose 😂 Great video though; very well covered 👍

Thumbs up, for the "Tusk" shoutout! I know it hasn't been seen all that much, but it is really scary, Mostly due the excellent performance by the legendary Michael Parks. RIP.

Tim drake is now officially dating someone who thought his mom was hot, I’m sorry but that sounds hilarious

"The queer icon he [Robin] was always intended to be"? Was Prof. Wortham... right?!?

Thank you for explaining sum/some. You win the Helpful Canadian of the Day Award

In my late teens and 20s, there was bi-curiosity; some people never went beyond that, some experimented once and decided it wasn't for them, some thought it was fun on occasions, etc. My biggest problem with these recent 'coming out' stories is, there's never room for saying, 'mmm, I don't think so" or more complexity. Right now I feel lots of this will be retconned out in a few years

To answer the easy question: I didn't even notice the paint till you mentioned it. The wig was a great one and thus grabbed all my attention. I wonder if we will get a: 'Bernard....I'm Robin. Tim....I've always known,' moment? And when you mentioned burgers and then the Robin Damian beef I said 'Can I get fries with that?' Oh, I'll get my coat...

I think also it could be interesting to use Tim to explore/tackle the stereotypes of bi/pan people. Like "pan/bi people get around" and "how come you're a bi dude and you're dating a girl?" (Or the reverse of that) if anything I think being with Stephanie should've been a moment to strengthen their relationship? Showing how she would've reacted to his coming out?

I love your Batman voice,it makes me laugh

I love your Batman voice!!

Casually Comics Come for the comics. Stay for the constant hair changes 😅

When I first came out, I told people I was bi before I eased into letting them know I was full on gay. My first boyfriend was bi, and I felt like I didn't have all the parts he liked. Also, he was not great at communicating so I never knew how he felt. There is room for all types of relationships! I think it'd be cool if Stephanie was like: she knew the whole time and was accepting of him or something...

I wish they would give a reason as to why he and Stephanie broke up I don't have a problem with things happening all the panel but it seemed like they were relationship was just starting to work Tim Drake is and always will be my favorite Robin I do wish he would get his own codename though maybe Damien will take the flame bird name and then Tim could have Robin or come up with something else

What DC editorial has done here really makes me think that they do not have any plans or care for Tim, retconning him for the new 52 was a bad idea, and he hasn’t gotten any better after 10 years, the fact that making his bi reveal in an anthology book weeks before Jon just proves my point. This is following a trend, plain and simple, and a really lazy one at that.

I've had a feeling that the problem with Tim is that he never had his dark half moment. It was hinted in the PreNew52 when he "joined " the League of Shadows but Nightwing has Talon as his dark reflection, Jason pretty much is his dark reflection with the Joker, and don't get me started with Damian. Tim has always been the perfect partner and too good for his own good. Personally, I think if they really wanted to have a fall to darkness they should consider the Joker Junior incident from the animated series (shit was dark as hell) and have him come back from that. You know, a character first. I find fans really latch onto heroes when they struggle with their darker selves and drag themselves back (and why I think anime has such a leg up on American comics). It would help bring Connor back into the fold as well, seeing how his whole existence is the living embodiment of two rivals birthed as one. I'm pissed that DC still can't figure out the potential of Connor's existence as Lex Luthor's son. All the revisited drama and fans love internal duality. But that's just me.

Ollie: You suck, Hal! Hal: I just want you to be happy!

They have a few pages to tell a story while also setting up (possibly) a new series, certainly a new story line. I love all of the analysis, but there was no way a short story could live up to any/all expectations. At least in my mind.

19:50 "Bruce Wayne has other friends; you have a basement full of computers." 😂😂😂 Bat-zing-a! The Casually Bat-voice is soooooo cool.

I love how you pronounce "Alberto Albuquerque Jimenez" correctly, and I also like his name, but his art kinda... sux (I don't know enough Spanish slang to use a better word) (I also wonder a bit why Al's family removed the 1st "r" from Alburquerque...). Thanks for your great reviews!

Little piece of comic book trivia. The dates on the covers are holdovers from the newsstand era. The date/month listed was when the book was supposed to be taken off the shelf and returned, rather than being the date published. For most comics, that was two months after release, while some other magazines would be taken off sooner or later.

Your wig is amazing. You remind me of Sabrina Spellman played by Kiernan Shipka.

I think if Tim does not eventually become Red Robin I could easily imagine him as becoming the Question when he decides to not take the Bat mantle :P

First off, the millennial in me is living for your shirt. Second, the art style shift is throwing me so hard. I love the style but I feel like Robin went from 19 to 13 and I've never been super keen on reeeeeeeaaal young Robin. I just wanna send him back to middle school

". . . meet at Tim Horton's . . ." Ah, Canada.

Thanks for covering this! The story I'm fine with. Just can't handle Alberto Albuquerque Jimenez pencils/inks.

Really interesting to see how DC and the public respond/handle this. Society is an ever-changing landscape and comics are not am exception.

The Batman voice gets me every time lol

I love your videos and humor also your takes home through the humor - I don't know these people but it's fun to listen about - I wonder who my favorite robin would be 💭 again I don't know these people I'm just here to have fun

Honestly I hope that this is a plot point that they generally ignore in the future just because I really liked Tim and Stephanie and I just want them to be together :(

Batman with stubble and a mustache looks weird, but it makes me want to see a Batman and Zorro combination character.

Sasha " I want a series for everybody though." Me too Sasha! Me too! I guess I'm one of those weirdos who is like.. who was this character that you so callously just ignored when they had all this potential. But then i'm a weirdo who is really into Boston Brand and wishes they had continued the series where he was chasing down the escapees from Nanda Parbat.

I honestly don't care either way if Tim Drake is bi. Personally I don't think it is necessary, but im not offended by it, nor do I think it is some sign that "dc has run out of ideas". What i do have issue with is DC and Marvel's continue to hire these hack writers who don't know the first thing about the character they are writing.

I don't mind representation. I just wish they wouldn't 'change' pre-existing characters to achieve it. Like, if you weren't aware of Tim Drake being interpreted as bi, and you didn't make that connection yourself, this whole thing is going to come out of left field. And now you won't be able to simply enjoy the character without the "baggage" of the drama surrounding him. You won't be able to enjoy reading the Stephanie x Tim moments in earlier comics as much if you know they won't end up together for real - that there's no point in the scenes. You won't be able to enjoy the Bernard x Tim moments in the newer comics because you'll always be comparing it to what it could be - "Tim had more chemistry with Stephanie", "This would have better representation if they did this instead of that", "This will never compare to that similar scene with Stephanie and Tim", etc..

Tim's been in limbo ever since Damien showed up and it still feels like he'll never leave it.

I loved how this comic just left reader wanting more

Nice channel but o camme from shippers guide to the galaxy. It's a shame you stopped it and I can't wait for you to take it again 🤠.

I can't hear "Tusk" without thinking of the Fleetwood Mac song.

All I want for Christmas is a Bat hug.

reaaaally hope dc capitalizes on tim's recent resurgence in popularity because this issue really raised some awesome questions imo. tim always struggled with his identity and having one outside of robin, and yeah with the butchering in n52 and damian's introduction in the role of robin i think tims been in a pretty bad place. but dick telling tim he cant always clutch to robin and cant just keep propping bruce up in his dark moments (which is basically what he did in his og origin story), its rlly making me hope they explore these ideas in a mini that hopefully leads to a solo. meghan fitzgerald being the writer would also be rlly cool, since she draws a lot of old parallels/ideas from tim's robin run. but yeah rlly enjoyed this issue, shame that we didn't get to see that date though

I forgot this was the biggest comic news in the world for that one week...

They have no idea what to do with Robin. I seriously wish I had complete creative control at DC; I know EXACTLY what to do with ALL of it.