What does the question have to do with anything other than Trump supporters to boost their rhetoric that somehow the straight white male is the most endangered species in America? If they asked any non white Hockey player what it’s like to be black in a predominantly white sport, I would think it’s equally stacked for political reasons. Don’t ask why everyone isn’t asking this question, ask why it’s so important to you that this question gets air time?
I well remember when there were very few black players in any of the major sports, and athletic ability wasn't the issue. I remember when haters called the New York Knickerbockers, the Niggerbockers because they had 5 black starters. White men in America have never been locked out of anything simply because they were white. Black men were locked out by tradition (whites only) because white men didn't want the competition.
He Who Greets With Fire while you’re absolutely right on racism in sports for many decades but there is absolutely racial bias in sports-white guards in the NBA-white CBs in the NFL-up until about 10 years ago black QBs in the NFL...black NHL players....black catchers in MLB etc
@@melvin3997 I was talking about now. Besides if Jackie Robinson couldn't play he wouldn't won over fans, teammates and eventually opposing players like he did. So it still applies.
Rufus Goldstein I’m sure you Amy be speaking about “today” however. As a whole the NBA is less respected than it was I. The 80’s. Why? They’ll tell it’s heart. Love of the game, blah, blah, blah. However I believe it’s more so because of the decline of (white) (American) players in the league. Sure the black players respect anyone that can play but I can’t say that for the other way around. They stand and cheer for white scrubs like Brian Scalabrini, Matthew Delladova ect. But you don’t get that same respect for black scrubs. Just my opinion. Thanks for the exchange. Merry Christmas
I think it is because they are playing against other white Europeans... White Americans are going through Black Americans...and if we are being honest, think about all the black players that don't get better because they also have to go against and play with Black Americans. AAU teams have 9-11 players. 2-3 of them are usually really good and the other kids are just there to help pay for the team. By the time they get to the high school level most of the "other" kids have either quit, or just haven't got much better because Americans (both white and black) get all their court time in AAU. American coached suck for the most part, there is very few teachers of the game, we are left with guys that are just usinig 2-3 kids to win games.
When Legler said “Is it catch & shoot or am I taking it off a rack?” and he said “does it matter?” I was like okay this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about lol
@@dlt9784 STILL dominated And won 3 championships and 3 MVPs and TOLD dudes what he was about to do and told them they couldnt stop him and they couldnt..u can lie to yourself like he didnt dominate but he DID I saw it and grew up in it..it wasn't JUST HYPE..And Isiah Thomas was as dominant as Magic and Bird and was 9 inches shorter and sidnt get his due,Won 2 championships and was more dominant than Allen Iverson who never won a Ring.granted he didnt have the teams Bird had.But a few players that where Great Around Dr Jay era and beginning of Jordan Era get forgotten about Like Isiah Thomas and Bernard King,Larry Bird was up there with Quality players and Dominating and that's a FACT and he would do even better today with No hand checking.
In the sixties and the early seventies most teams were still mostly. Remember in 74 and 76 the Celtics won with Havilcek a white player as their best player. In 75 Golden State won with Rick Barry and 77 Portland won with Bill Walton both white players. It is funny how do many people can forget that basketball is a majority white sport. Just the best players happen to be Black Americans.
Miss he and Sean Elliott on the show. I know it was yrs back, but my fav duo. They'd give their takes, sometimes agree, at times not. Always respectful and informative. .
@@trillville3503 As soon as he said he was applying online I questioned it just lIke the 1st guy that commented on it. I think he just mis-spoke or your 100% right about Nebraska having the greatest dial-up service ever!!
Yea the intranet evolved into the internet and yes it actually has been around for decades it jus wasn't available for public use until late 80s early 90s
I remember watching Legler play back in his days as an Omaha Racer. He was a fan favorite and one of the best guys on the team. Glad he made it to the big time.
Look at the ex Bulls. Forget MJ and Pip . Wennington, Perdue, Stacey King, BJ all parlayed the team success into post playing careers. Kerr too, but that's a different story. He's great in his own way.
Very interesting.. From a basketball perspective and me being a ballplayer, I use to take notes from watching shooters like TIM LEGLER and others.. I never realized what he had to go through to finally make it to the NBA.. MUCH RESPECT FOR NOT GIVING UP
The biggest problem with the approach to this conversation, is that nobody wants to use empirical evidence. This is a detailed story, painting if you will, and you don't create a complex painting, using broad strokes of paint. You have very obvious details and maybe some obscure ones. There are reasons as to why this is, and we should be able to have some civil discussions around it. The fact that in most cases, on RU-vid, it seems.....we can't. Which further's the notion to me, that race is actually a huge question in global society. I just hope that we continue to force dialogue in this manner, we don't just get cultural fatigue and say "race doesn't have anything to do with it, end of story".....that's just not true. The more we continue to ignore race & cultural differences as a factor in this country the more angrier we'll become whenever it's brought up.
I don't believe you know what you are talking about. Race is a social construct and not represented biologically. The genetic difference between any two individuals in the world are between 1-3%. This is hard for people to cope with and understand because they have been raised in a society that emphasizes "racial differences". The only difference collectively between "racial" groups arise from differences in culture, not biology. We are one of the species with the least amount of genetic diversity in the world. I'm not sure where you are coming from because your comment was rather vague, but if you are trying to say that there are consistent biological similarities between what we in America define as "races", then that is just not true in the slightest. On the other hand, there are definitely cultural differences that impact people who are put in racial categories, but not everyone who is grouped into the same race have the same culture.
....first let me preface this with...I think we should take this convo off this reply section and inbox each other. However, the genetic difference between a chimpanzee and a human beings is 1.23%. So when you say the genetic difference between two humans is 1-3%, that's disingenuous when you don't put it in the perspective of over a billion genetic material. There are three primary racial identities accepted by the scientific community, even the mythical places that you say don't acknowledge "racial differences". What place doesn't acknowledge racial differences? It's important to understand the difference between what a country wants to portray and what actually happens in that country. Brazil is a PERFECT example of this. It is true that not everyone in a race is apart of the same culture....in fact we have subcultures that have a variety of components.....environmental, historical, and even social patterns. We won't find a conclusion in just two messages but, i'm a little more read than just someone who has only been exposed to societies that identify "racial differences"
Sorry, I meant to type .1-.3%. Anyways, what are you trying to prove? I was discrediting the claim, that you may or may not believe in, that races can be identified strictly on a biological basis. Races that we know today are socially constructed and differ from culture to culture. These socially constructed races can not be verified on a genetic basis. That's all I'm saying.
Alec Williamson but your basis for making that statement is a percentage of difference on the genetic code. The part that's reaching about that, is that the difference in the genetic code, no matter how small, can lead to some monumental changes in appearances and attributes as seen throughout nature. The scientific community is not all sold on "race" being a purely social construct, but rather a mixture of physical appearance, geographical place, linguistics etc. Biology to some aspect has played a part in the identification of the 3 primary racial distinctions. It's what people use for gene mapping, and finding out where they originated form over 2500 years ago, etc. You're saying that races can't be verified on a genetic basis, i'm saying that has some validity, but genetics is as much apart of an attribute as social constructs.
I have never heard of these 3 primary racial distinctions before and will continue to doubt that heavily until I have been presented with strong empirical data. The thing is, I am not sold on these small genetic differences between each of us being substantial in any way. Races we know today are socially constructed from very small, insignificant biological differences such as skin color and facial structures. These differences mean nothing until we add meaning to them and assign our prejudices to them. The idea that you can define race tends to be unrealistic as well. Races are poorly defined to begin with and are constantly changing and have been changing ever since humans have created societies. Even if you can somehow organize everyone in the world into specific racial groups based purely on genetic differences what good does it do? How different can they actually be from each other? In the end you are only going to influence the uninformed that races are distinct from each other when they are really not. That will lead to philosophies like Eugenics which primarily influence events like the Holocaust.
Love Tim.. great interview... most ppl today would be sensitive about the questions but these guys are from a different era so the understanding of an interview and answering questions without getting angry. Love this
Most pros can shoot all day practicing but when you play the game shooting is totaly different even steph won't hit 50 straight 3 pointers in a game situation that said legs was a good shooter and an honest guy much respect
I think Channing Tatum could of been good, but he went to other careers. Maybe some of them should place more emphasis on workouts to make them more athletic while maintaining some muscle.
there have been times when I have been the only white guy on the court (non pro), and it was a lot like legler said, you get respect (if you can play). one interesting thing I can say is that I don't think I ever got hurt by a black guy. but whites and mexicans will foul you hard sometimes to compensate for their lack of athletisism, where blacks seem to take more pride and put more effort into their skills.
Growing up playing ball in North Carolina, Anywhere I went to play ball... I was a minority and the other white dudes were to timid to touch the ball. Or play defense. And the darker ethnic crowd or hip hop culture ... It doesn't matter what they are but they're just not apart of the Andy Griffith crowd wouldnt want me touching the ball, when I finally do get a rebound. Dudes stop playing and just look at me rolling their eyes. Not realizing.... All I did was touch a basketball in my free time. I didn't like video games, TV, girlfriends or whatever most white dudes did... I used to take my ball and go around the neighborhood playing on any goal til night time. Rain never stopped me.... I got to a point where I could tell if people ball by the way they walk or touch a ball. I didn't need to see them dribble or shoot. I used to make everyone watching look in amazement because I could dribble and shoot like it was all natural... I had done Jordan's post up fadeaway shot so much, while for some reason no one practices that move like it's the sickest basketball movement you can do. I honestly had a hard time understanding why a lot of these dudes are even here if they're not balling 24/7. And yet think because of my skin tone I shouldn't touch a ball. It got real old having dedication and determination being totally disregarded because of people's view of a social conflict within themself. I'm not judging anything... I don't even disrespect anyone if they can't dribble. I look the other way and box out for the rebound because I know it's a brick. But from my experience... People want social conflict if there isn't. It's annoying. You can't play and don't want to get embarrassed is what I see. In my 30s now and have no reason to play... It feels good to go out there but you can see the judgment in people's eyes. But now... Since I've grown up. My court awareness is pretty wild yet athleticism is not good at all. I actually can get a lot of respect by simply setting dudes up for easy buckets and tight defense (and it's been ten years since I played, if you put the time in... You can get respect regardless of color, respect yourself)
Love what you said. I'm also white and in my 30's. From Flint,MI. I would shovel the snow off courts in the winters and would play from the time I woke up till I had to come home at night. Basketball has always been my #1 outlet.
Love, Korver, and Redick have spoken on this topic recently. The white guys don't shy away from it. Plus with guys like Jokic, Luka, Dirk, and Nash still having the ability to be elite; it is not like white guys have no chance for roster spots.
@@drechillin2154 -- Hayward is definitely a star, but with the Celtics he takes a back seat to make others comfortable. I'm not sure he can shine with Kemba, Brown, and Tatum. With so many good players it is hard for any of them to stand out. There are still a lot of guys I didn't mention like Sabonis, Bagdonovic, Nurkic and more. There are even some up and comers like Herro and DiVincenzo.
@@drechillin2154 -- He was a multiple time all-star in Utah in the Western conference which was hard to do. He was in his 20s. He was pretty well known in the gaming community as well. He was at least on his way to being a star. The injury and playing with talented team mates has taken away from that. I think being known outside of basketball has a lot to do with the term star. People need a reason to want to see you. You can definitely question if he was a star. He was at least close.
Miami Heat , Denver Nuggets, and the Dallas Mavs. I can take the best white boys off those teams and put a playoff team on the floor that would make a serious run. Most complete back in the NFL is Christian McCaffrey. The world is changing..
You could go online before the internet existed. Commodore 64 computers came with a modem and those came out in 1982 I believe? It wasn't websites, it was Bulletin boards and Newsgroups in the 80s. There was email then too. The internet became public in 1993.
Larry Bird was no way near the athleticism of his opponents but found other ways to become the legend he is today. It ain't the colour, its the skills.
And It's not the color, it's the genetics! Try to stop being stupid, while trying to sound intelligent..... People are not skin tones, their genetical chromazone....... caucasians are not Melenated people!
I remember being at a game between the Hawks and the Mavs. I watched Tim start torching Stacy Augman. Then it happened. Stacy pushed Tim down and kicked him down the court. The refs turned their heads like nothing happened. I liked Tim he was a good shooter.
Love, Korver, and Redick have spoken on this topic recently. The white guys don't shy away from it. Plus with guys like Jokic, Luka, Dirk, and Nash still having the ability to be elite; it is not like white guys have no chance for roster spots.
I like Legler great straight forward analyst. Bob Sura was my guy im an FSU fan. And yeah blacks was ballin hard especially the 80s and 90s. Plus are naturally faster stronger & jump higher than mpst races.
This is analogous to there being zero white guys who have played cornerback in the NFL for years. Even white receivers are given the nickname of “white lightning”. Black players respect the speed of foot. David Stern and the NBA recognized this long ago and had to import white skin from Europe in order prevent there being 10-12 completely all black teams. It was disguised as taking the NBA brand global, but was really all about the need to lighten up the league. The Knicks once had an all black team and the league was not about to let that happen again, even if it had to import its white skin. Image and appearance is everything. It became hard to advertise the NBA as having the world’s greatest athletes and only a handful of American born white athletes were on the floor.
BS. If there were a white guy with same skills but same height as Spud Webb, Mugsy Bogues he wouldn't even play D1 much less NBA. Color does come into play.
CBA stood for Continental Basketball Association, not Canadian. Even if it was Canadian, who cares? The NBA has a team in Toronto, so exactly what Nation does National Basketball Association refer to?
There's a bit of a hole in his story. You where filling out your paperwork for Villanova Law School on line two years after you graduated college? Did the internet even exist back then???
We need more diversity in basketball. The government needs to get involved to ensure we are fighting systemic racism in professional sports. Universities strive toward diversity in the classroom but fail to be consistent in their sports programs as well. These opportunities need to be provide to people of all regardless of the color of their skin.
Well, at least he didn't have to sleep in separate hotels and be refused at restaurants like the one or two black players on predominantly white basketball teams in the early days of supposed desegregation. Of course we all remember a time when black and white players couldn't even be on the same court, let alone the same team.
zlw1998 J.J. Watt is the best white player in the league with the exception of the QB position, actually the best Defensive Player in the league, I hope he wins the MVP. Lol Jason Sehorn. There are very good white players though, plenty really.
Weber562 I was responding to original comment of there being no white RB's. I'm aware Watt is white; Luke Kuechly, Harrison Smith, Eric Weddle are also dominant white defensive players. I was just saying how there is a lack of white corners.
HBO Real Sports has a good segment about the rising costs of youth sports. In 10-15 years the face of sports will be different as rich white kids come of age.
The white cornerbacks will come back...had lots of good ones in the 80's and 90's.up til early 2000's like John Lynch(was a Safety STILL backfield though and was ELITE) Jason Sehorn and others..just like U got Christian Mcaffrey now white running back..They get reverse racism bcs of how coaches and scouts prejudge white athletes and assume they cant keep up..but somebody will push thru..talent is overrated though..how many talented players just dont want to put in the work?Or arent tough minded or determined to get thru adversity?That counts for a lot in sports...Its when u have talent and True Grit and Work Ethic that u get the ELITE LEGENDS
@@jalvarez8204 .... I agree with most of that however I'm strictly talking white corners... NOT safeties because there's a decent amount of those... strictly corner, especially a white nickel corner?? good luck! LOL
@@KennyMcCormick99 Yeah not too many of THOSE if ANY. I would have to do a forensics combing of rosters dont see them at the Pro or Super Bowl either..I get your point..but u get mines too
When I saw that clip from Real Sports with the Jerry West interview when he explained that NBA incorporated the Zone because white guys cant guard blacks in man to man coverage overall and that we are just naturally quicker and stronger than white players and the lack of white players not getting drafted was becoming a issue. Then Mr.west went on to explain also that the NBA allowed Zone play also because they knew in order to make the game global and make the league more visible to the world and bring in European players that the only it was going to work would be if they played Zone
