I can’t defend Joffrey but for Thommen: “he is a kid, what kid is not naive? specially if we put him in a context of growing up with all the money in the world inside a palace full of liars”
Margaery.- *spends time with her husband* Cersei.- That bitch. She's poisoning his mind to make him do her bidding. How dare her do the exact same thing I've been doing my entire life with far more many man? She even asked him to go walk with her through the garden, like a slut!
@@thiagoolv0818weakest king in the history of Westeros. Maggie the frog had already seen the death of her 3 children. It would’ve happened one way or another. He killed him self over 3rd hand pussy.
I love this conversation so fucking much. She can see tommen is trying to manipulate her but because she’s so jaded she can’t see that it’s because he genuinely wants her to be happy. And Tommen is so innocent and naive that he doesn’t realize that 1. She knows what he’s doing and 2. His wifes reasons for bringing this up weren’t as pure as his own
I disagree on your first point, she clearly knows that HE believes that he’s just trying to help his mom, he’s none the wiser to his wife’s schemes. I don’t think Cersei ever doubted Tommen’s loyalty to her.
He didn’t say that just because he wanted her mom to be happy. If I remember well Margery complemented his mom for always being by his side and taking care of him and calling him a mamma’s boy which quite made him unhappy. He was so young and naive and loved his wife and he wanted to look like a man in his wife’s eyes not some young boy being taken care of by his mother so he wanted to send Cersei away.
From what I’ve noticed even in real life is that what women lack in physical strength, they make up for it with cunning and wit. The true master manipulators are most often female
@@J_L_P6 I mean let's put this into perspective. Why did Jeffery die? Because she didn't respect Sansa as his bride to be, allowed him to abuse her and let him take Margery as his new wife and her grandmother poisoned him to keep her safe. Why did Myrcella die? Because her insistence on getting rid of Tyrion, led her to falsely accuse him because she knew full well from the start he didn't kill Jeffrey, Oberyn defended him in the trial by combat and died so Ellaria poisoned her as revenge. Why did Tommen die? Because she killed his wife and hundreds of not thousands of people and he killed himself, all of it was her fault, every single last one.
Tbh Tywin’s death was the worst.. he was such an awful-incredible character, I was sad that he wasn’t alive anymore to spice things up in the game of thrones
@@renerodriguez3504 Just imagine Tywin being around at any point after the fact. The Lannisters would’ve been a bigger threat-dangerous. Yeah yeah it’s pleasing to think that Cersei single handedly brought her own house to extinction but Tywin was a great mind in warfare. What if Arya had gotten to be able to kill him? After the time he spent appreciating the young ‘poor’ girls intelligence to only find that it was Ned Starks daughter like c’mon the possibilities man
They lack each others best qualities. Whilst an evil shit, Joffrey was good at getting his people in line and showing them who was in charge. Unfortunately he lacks Tommen’s common decency and sense.
To be fair, Tywin and Margrery wouldn't likely abuse his power as much compared to Cersi. Tywin might have enjoyed teaching his grandson how to properly be a king, and Margrey could have fallen in love with Tommens' kindness.
@@Killgore-ip2yq if you believe that either Tywin and Margery cared for him, you shoul rewatch listening to their path. Both only care for themselves. Margerye claimed to love Renly, then Joffrey and then Tommen... She only loved her own ambition. Now, Tywin... Tywin is the best char, but he is Tywin Lannister and Tommen were weak. A Lannister cant whitstand weakness in this kind of game of power...
@@tavernadoeogan0187 Ceersei was used too. That woman was used too, but she was stronger in the end. Yes impulsive and not as strategic, but she stood her ground. She went thru so much.
Yeh obviously he sounds weak in this his a 13/14 year old boy that was raised by his mother as the second son and not the 1st son,tommen was never supposed to be king so he was never trained to be a king so will always be "weaker" but I say with love and happiness comes great strength and its a shame tommen was never actually shown love and more of everyone manipulating him into what they want him to be
Couldn't even defend hisbwife against his mother's taunts, then would not stand up to her instead of ordering her back tonthe Rock. He never stood a chance.
Honestly, it would've been better if she'd gone to Casterly Rock and stayed there. I know Cersei lives for her family but King's Landing ruined her. Going back would've been healing.
@@Luis-ou9fn I was more speaking in terms of Cersei's mental state/health (sympathizing with her character and what she's been through) - not necessarily about what would have happened politically for her family. I get why she never went home, but it's still a bit sad.
No it wouldn't be. Making her endure the unfairness of he existence as only mattering as a wedding pawn when her younger twin got all the freedom and power offered to him would not have been "healing"
@@lillyhall8284lmao i was just gonna . Joffrey was literally a Nonsense he so psychotic everything he do didn't make sense and just ruined everyone life🤣
Probably Joffrey had a mental illness. The other two also past time with her (we can saw them on dinner and parties) and she treated them with sweetness (there’s a scene where she sits on the iron throne hugging little Tommen). I think that Joffrey was too spoiled or has a mental disorder.
I don't know who was more naive Sansa or Tommen. But I can't blame them,they were children who were way overprotected by their mothers shielding them from the harsh reality and true terrors that laid outside their house and because of this it brought them harsh consequences to their kids were one was kidnapped,tortured and humiliated and the other one was manipulated and later died...
@@BonVoyage861No one ever trained him, everyone specialy his mother were focused on Joffrey, he was bullied most of his life so can't become suddenly strong.
I think ultimately it wouldn’t had work and he would start being violent towards her too the moment she displeased him, we saw that with Sansa hi was sweet at first ang got so violent and abusive even when they were still meant to be married and she was politically more important than marjory
I think ultimately it wouldn’t had work and he would start being violent towards her too the moment she displeased him, we saw that with Sansa hi was sweet at first ang got so violent and abusive even when they were still meant to be married and she was politically more important than marjory
he's trying to be nice to him mom. If it was Joffrey - Cersei would have woken up in a carriage on the way to Casterly Rock, He was obviously trying to do better. Unfortunately it backfired for him.
No one is questioning if he had the power to her there. This is his first ever attempted manipulation. He's trying to outwit his mother but has no clue how to.
This show did a lot of stupid things towards the middle and end. And aging Tommen up was one of them. In the books, he's only 8 at this point. It was easy for Cersei to manipulate him. It made sense for her to get away with controlling him. But this Tommen was simply weak. Not only did she convince him not to attend any Small Council meetings, but she also ruled. Tommen is like 15 or 16 in the show. His word should have been law. But the show just decided to make him a weak king. It's pretty sad with bad writing.
Wouldn't be that unrealistic, though? Lots of people are timid and insecure at 15-16. Doesn't matter in our time, because they would never be put in charge, but in the Middle Ages/Westeros they could be.
@@ZigzagzolarYes but as the king grew past 14 their word started to mean a great deal. Most importantly once a king started asserting themselves it became a tightrope for the regent to walk on. If the soon to be fully in control king felt I ignored and trifled with my there would be hell to pay when he fully came to powe.
