Max, thanks. A most appreciated video. Information on tool & cutter grinding is like rocking horse poop, and this was very useful to me & I'm sure many others. Thanks again.
This was very interesting. I hadn't seen a tool grinding operation before. I also didn't realize that it depends heavily on the cutter having an even number of teeth.
Wow Max, this is a fantastic video on sharpening, I have watched Grizillions of videos on sharpening, but never one as informative as this one, thank you so much, Cheers, Paul
I learned loads of real world practical stuff from that Max. Video quality excellent. I have 3 volumes of old machining manuals a subscriber gave me. Cheers
This was very interesting to me Max as a beginner in the machinist work. Enjoyed watching your process and technique of getting the cutter sharpened for the work. Quite the tool. Thanks for sharing.
Some impressive free handing there Max on the radius! That's not easy. Used to have a saying here that you could walk into any workshop canteen and point out the tool and cutter grinder by counting fingers and thumbs🤭🏴
I once needed a couple carbide endmills with a nonstandard corner radius. Before going to my EM grinder for a price, I did a deep internet search and found a company that provided EMs with whatever radius you wanted at very little over stock price. When I got them I was shocked to see the radius and reliefs hand ground. But after microscope inspection of the tool and then part inspection, they provided the radius I needed
you sir are a true master machinist in America all they want to teach is cnc and none of the basics that are manual machinist its a crap pot and if you are going to be a great machininst you must be able to make anything with manual machines and you sir can make anything in your shop that could be cnc made you and joe pie are my go to references for questions i need answered
I think ANCA makes tool grinders in Australia.🙂 Besides that, I like to see the manual tool grinding. It looks very time consuming. Apreciate the clear explanation as well.
Max thanks for the sharpening lessons as some one else say there are a lot of them out there but i got so much more out of yours than all the others combined on another note you are so right here in the Land of Aus we don't get the chance to get parts or cutters or if you do then they won't so much for them you may as well buy new ones if you can get them at all tooling for machines just don't exist at all big Cheers Max thanks once again for n excellent video
Takes me back Max, I was put on the CG doing the diameter of end mill od's as a lad, took to it very well (too well) as I was then given boxes and boxes of the ####ing things lol
The cutter worked well, Max. I've first hand experience of one of those cup wheels exploding with that set up, many moons ago while at college, lol. Everybody dived on the floor, lol. Thanks for reminding me. Cheers Tony
Waiting for the right one or even getting tooling into Oz is terrible. I just scored a 6" adjustable Sine tooling plate out of the USA in decent condition. Freight was only a third mortgage on my remaining kidney 🤦♂Overall I think it was still a win 🤣
Hi Max, this video takes me back. We used to have two tool and cutter grinders in the toolroom, one like yours and a Cincinnati that you could dial in helixes which was great for end mills.
Thankyou Sir, Would like to see more of your machines and how you use them, appreciate your instructions and the explanations why it is done that way. Thank you for helping me improve my backyard butchering, from Gold Coast Qld.
I have used cheap and cheerful Chinese resin bond diamond wheels as well.Great for a finer finish. I have also had to not only dress the wheels true but sometimes turn the bodies to true the face.Not hard to do but amusing that people can make wheels so out of whack and still sell them.Same with slitting saws when the bore is not in the centre of the saw. Keep up the good work Max.
Thoroughly enjoyed this....amazing what an 'old timer' can do by eye when making those radius cuts.....before seeing this video, I would have assumed you needed some Fancy Schmantzy Gizmo to do that.... Best Wishes again, Paul in the other 'Sunshine State', Florida
I've noticed that saw arbors are often a little wonky. They tend to cut more on one side than the other when sawing in the Bridgeport. It doesn't affect the cutting but the lack of concentricity is noticeable. K O Lee expanding mandrels are terrifyingly expensive, though.
G'day, Max. As you already know, I've just watched part one in the Bridgeport challenge. That's because I left you a comment. 😂 We've just watched how the cutting wheel you sharpened with the grinder works, but I hope you have part two of the Bridgeport job ready to upload soon. Cheers, cobber. 👍⚒️🏴
my Dawson grinder does not tilt either, However there is a flat back side with a threaded hole, and I made a plate to mount my Themac7 on it, giving me a full tilt either way, as well as rotate and elevate. I have like 5 of those finger deals, 3 are micrometer adjustable. I need to lay it all out and figure out how it all works, I have 4 tubs of tools and hardware, and probably 200 wheels mostly brand new. I have a small machinist vice mounted on a compound angle stand, which is what I use most. 6 yrs, and haven't sharpened a machine tool yet. The CAD boys make this stuff obsolete, so I get it for a song. sometimes I am the only bidder.
Hi Max, gettig things here in Philippines is challenging compared to Australia. The only place i can get silver steel ground bar is through Radio Spares PH and takes more than 2 weeks ex UK and not cheap. For alloy steel and non ferrous materials have to go to china town Manila, full day trip. Most of the US tooling is worn out or scrapped, the Americans were here from the turn of last century and left in the early sixties.
Max, you are certainly a clever man, would I be out of place suggesting placing the Radios Gauge from Trevor on top of the tooth and blueing the pattern as a guide prior to cutting them out that way makes life easy and less stress. TOP man more videos please.
Another fascinating one Max. You know Leitz tooling in Malaga have CNC carbide sharpeners that can do all your sharpening if / when needed, if there’s anything you aren’t able to do it with what tooling you have on hand.
The correct way to sharpen a cutter is to have the tooth being sharpened supported by the tooth rest which resists the force of the wheel. The method shown has the potential for the cutter to rotate thus causing a 'stack' in the old parlance.
Didn't you watch the video the whole way through. Max said what you said and warned about the consequences. Max also said that with experience a person can avoid such catastrophes.
My suggestion just last night actually made the very next video? Unheard of! Never Ever in my Tube History has someone done something that I jokingly suggested the very next day (same day because of the magic line that delineates when it is) ! I am ecstatic!!😊. Max- You just made my existence worth while 😂. Always enjoy your sharing your considerable skills with a mere mortal being 😊. Good on ya Mate 😎
Damn Max, I watched your guard video beginning to look end, then you post this one with zero guard! This is fascinating to me because I have always wondered how resharpening was done, and here I am at 72 being trained by an Aussie on an electric book! This is a crazy thing that we were introduced to, and I am addicted to it as much as the library when I was a kid. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Max great video thanks. When you showed the method of grinding the secondary relief am I correct in thinking the cutter should use the same wheel side as you used in the primary cut. The other side will still jam the wheel, thanks Terry.
Interesting video. Prefer not to hang on to cutter. Relying on thumb is not text book. But a time saving devise. The art of Fitting & Machining is an encylopedia of information. . Found myself revisiting mechanical processes. That require some safe thought.
Expertly done and explained Max, in the 70's I used to build the Jones and Shipman 310 machine, being a fitter I'm not sure how a machinist would rate them, we certainly sold quite a few, did any make their way to your neck of the woods?
Useful video. Yeah, T & C grinders come up here in Aus, but very rarely with any tooling! I've managed to get some stuff over the years (mostly from the US when shipping was realistic and our dollar was worth something) but do you think I can get a tailstock center that's the correct height for mine! (Cincinnati #2) Cheers (finally subscribed)
Nice one . I am still setting my one up . I have to make a lot of the tooling as it is unavailable here , hence some of my unorthodox methods ! Cheers 👍
Thanks for showing this set up. Could you let me know what settings you changed for the secondary clearance angle, I couldn’t see any change in the wheel height or the tooth stop. Could you also tell where you source that type of diamond wheel, the only ones I’ve come across are resin bound Would love to see more of these tool grinding setups
Max, I enjoy your videos very much and learned a few things. I’m a tool maker in Southern California and I do a lot of odd and repairs and one off parts. I’m curious to know what you charge per hour on a custom one off part. You can tell me in dollars or euros lol. Sometimes I think I’m not charging enough. subscribed, C&B Tools in California.
Custom one off parts , i generally give a quoted approximate fixed price & stick to it .My hourly rates , i do not discuss on social media for various reasons , if you have to pay rent , machine & wage payments etc etc . As there would be quite a variation shop to shop and also internationally . All that you have to remember , custom stuff takes alot more hours including lost hours than small batch production parts but over time the costing margin hopefully balances out . At the end of the day , stick to you quoted & get the job done correctly no matter what . You will soon work out what your hourly rate needs to be . 120 to 140 is pretty common here . Cheers 👍
Great instructional video. Now a question? When you started the cutting the secondary clearance angle, did you change the height of the adjustable stop? I can't understand how you you could achieve what you did without changing the height...... but then again there are a lot of things that I don't understand these days. ( I have just acquired an old Clarkson Mk2 T&C grinder and can find very little instructional info on youtube).
Max, where could I find a complete set of the "Fitting and Machining" books? My Google-fu is weak and I only found "Fitting and Machining" as a single volume at a few sites in Australia and none in the U.S. (where I live). I'm more than willing to pay shipping for a good set of books!
Not sure . Send me an email , theswanvalleymachineshop@gmail.com & i will have a look from my end . I think they are still available , or an updated version . 👍
All the diamond wheels i use are 150 grit , works well across the board . Anything that needs a finer finish i use a slow speed grinder with 400 , 1000 & 2000 diamond lap . 👍
Thanks for this video Max, it has arrived at a very appropriate time, having scored 25 plus side and face mills at an auction here in the UK. Some are OK and some need some real work, the majority just a clean up. Even here the home of the Clarkson, they are getting to be like hens teeth, certainly with any attachments and the prices have got a bit silly as people realise what they have. I'll probably use a spindexer setup on the surface grinder with a diamond cup wheel, unless something pops up.
Fantastic video, Max, very useful now I’ve a TOS tool & cutter grinder. I managed to get an online copy of the Fitting and Machining book. I note that on page 147 it suggests offsetting the wheel by 1 deg to provide a relief, for grinding angles, silly question but I’m guessing if you dress the wheel you should do that with the wheel square to the table travel first? It only mentions dressing the wheel for grinding square or parallel surfaces earlier. Or am I overthinking as usual? Cheers!
@@swanvalleymachineshop Great, thanks Max, makes sense. So you wouldn’t offset by 1 deg at all? Just square, dress and grind?! I’ve a few different wheels, diamond too, I’m guessing you definitely wouldn’t offset the diamond anyway as the face is so small. Was wondering about the vitrified wheels. Guess I’ll try it and see which gives a better finish. Cheers from Scotland, keep the videos coming, always learning!
@@swanvalleymachineshop Great, thanks Max, makes sense. So you wouldn’t offset by 1 deg at all? Just square, dress and grind?! I’ve a few different wheels, diamond too, I’m guessing you definitely wouldn’t offset the diamond anyway as the face is so small. Was wondering about the vitrified wheels. Guess I’ll try it and see which gives a better finish. Cheers from Scotland, keep the videos coming, always learning!
@@swanvalleymachineshop Aah, ok, now I get it, so it’s to avoid grinding on the other side of the wheel.. thanks! So if you limit your travel to one side of the wheel you can stay square and dress, grind etc.. got it! I’m a bit slow.. cheers!
Just looked at the first few minutes. I did this fifty years ago, was taught by an old guy, Tom Costello... Charts for cutting clearance? All you need to know for normal T&C grinding is that to achieve 1 degree clearance you drop your stop/spring finger 8.8 thou per inch of cutter diameter. Sin 1 degree is 0.017455, half of that, since you're calculating the angle on the basis of the cutter radius is 0.0088, as near as dammit. Anyone prepared to argue? Tables? Pffft! Now, the other thing is... The tooth you're sharpening is the tooth that should be supported. Not any other tooth, in the hope that division in manufacture was precise... It may not have been... Now, that may give rise to issues... Such as when gullets are shallow, with little room to accommodate a finger. The Cincinnati spring finger holder permitted the use of a "home made" finger made from a broken hacksaw blade. 20-25 thou thick, if you couldn't accommodate a hacksaw blade in a gullet... there was no gullet to accommodate swarf... I have, though, for reasons I forget, in 1978, made specialized repair reamers for aerospace use, where the tapered lead ran out to a gullet less than zero, where I ground a step parallel to, and behind the reamer gullet, to run my spring finger on, allowing me to sharpen a reamer whose gullet was reduced to nothing when sharpening was completed... It may have been a range of piloted reamers. '78 was a while back... Re the "8.8 thou per inch of cutter diameter per degree of clearance" to metricate that, it's 0.0088 of the cutter diameter per degree of clearance... And... With straight S&F cutters, your system's OK. What do you do with paired and handed S&F cutters? I used to do them on a common mandrel on one set, ensuring they finished the same diameter. with no measurement needed What do you do with staggered tooth cutters? And... On a tilting head T&C grinder, you can set your spring finger to centre height, tilt the grinding spindle. (not as simple as that, but it's bedtime...)
So how do you get it sorted with no finger indexer & you are waiting on that cutter for a job . If you had listened on the video , it was clearly stated that this machine still has to be tooled up . That means tooling that i still have to make as it's unavailable here . And another thing , what's with the smart ass comment about using tables . Does that mean you have never needed to use Machinery's Handbook or other reference sources ??? What do you think , we have every piece of correct tooling at our finger tips in Australia , get real FFS ! Thanks 👍
On RU-vid comments, If I hit the wrong key, I lose my post... Done it three times, I'm a stupid geriatric bastard. But you're incredibly thin skinned for a 'Strine... Basic principles... 8.8 thou drop for one degree of clearance per inch of cutter diameter, (or 0.0088 of diameter for metric) same thing, never step away from the grinder to look at a chart... Simple arithmetic, piece of piss! Isn't it? Call it 9 thou, 0.009 for simpletons... Stay at the machine, make money... Always... grind the tooth that's supported on the "spring finger" NOT ANY OTHER TOOTH. Who knows if the cutter teeth are regularly or irregularly spaced? You think you do? I never did... That bit me on the arse... ONCE! I did, though, fall out big time with a guy over reamer sharpening. their flutes were commonly irregularly spaced... I was proven right, he wrong, but...I did learn something from him, because he enunciated an assumption he'd made about something I was doing... Assumptions, eh? Like assuming tooth spacing's regular?... Last time I worked in a toolroom, we were talking about, but hadn't yet seen... facilities to grind helical tooling with "master helices" and air bearing workheads... Never used either... But even now, geriatric and with poor eyesight, I think I could use both/either... blindfold. Spring finger... An old hacksaw blade... Tooth rest... Something unnecessarily complicated and expensive... Wheel... Something that gets reinvented regularly, by newcomers to the business of wheels... We could talk more. Oddly... since throwing in the "blindfold" remark... I rmembered visiting a toolroom in the UK (1970s) where there was a blind guy running a T&C grinder. Think about it... T&C's formulaic... Don't reinvent it... It was a simple formula. A blind guy could sharpen tooling by feel, and by counting clicks to set his spring finger height, braille mics for diameter... (a bastard for irregular tooth spacing as you "know" ) Putting a radius on a cutter may have been a challenge, blind... I just cannot imagine setting up a radiusing jig blind ( slips with braille markings? GTF!) But! "my" blind guy on a T&C grinder was moving around and working with tremendous confidence. It was fascinating, and unnerving, talking to a guy who couldn't see me, the job he was doing, nor the finished product... but performed well according to his boss. And... weekend overtime, I've modified form relieved cutters to perform a task on my mill, using a Duplex toolpost grinder as a wheelhead, cutte mounted on an arbor between centres in my lathe, a home made spring finger set to height with my height gauge... A quotation I made earlier tonight (over drinks) to someone... "Perfection is not achieved when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to remove" I'll leave that with you. (find the source yourself) It's the KISS principle.
