I came up with a way to A/B switch between DAC's since I did this video. Confirmed there is no audible difference between the Topping E30, JDS Atom DAC, Grace SDAC and Motu M4 listening with Hifiman Ananda or Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro through a JDS Atom Amp.
Funny that you did that test because I currently use the Anandas with my Atom Stack (atom dac, atom amp), and was looking at the E30 to replace my Atom DAC for the sole reason of more input options. I love the Anandas and will order this E30 now.
I got one of these today, my first dac. Pretty happy with it! Thanks for mentioning how to switch from pre-amp to dac, the manual is not good at all. I didn't even know how to connect to my computer, no help with manual/leaflet or their website. Had to search the internet to find out.
I think most DAC devices have managed to reach a very similar level in terms of sound quality in the function in which they perform. I bought a not-so-sophisticated $40 usb DAC, and it seams to sound almost the same as my phone and my laptop, in terms of quality. The main diference that I notice, is that the common background noise on very sensitive IEMs ware gone, what is good mainly for listening to podcasts and movies.
You can use Roon to group 2 USB DACs into a single "Group Zone", essentially meaning syncronized playback through 2 DACs at once. That's how I do my DAC comparisons with gapless switching.
Interesting, thanks for the tip. Not sure I want to buy Roon just for this but it got me thinking I could potentially do something with Voicemeeter, gonna have to do some experimenting.
@@WheezyTech Roon is not just a piece of music playback software, it's an entire infrastructure for music library management and playback throughout your entire home network with full-featured DSP functionality and limitless configurability, yet it remains very straight forward and easy to work with. It's honestly the most value I've gotten out of my money after my headphones themselves. And I've tried alternatives as well, like Audirvana, Foobar2000, MusicBee etc. Roon is on a whole different level, and it costs the same as a Spotify subscription in the end. Worth it for way more than just doing DAC comparisons, imo. :)
the A/B test described wouldn't be reliable, it assumes that both DACs are outputting exactly the same volume so that connecting them to the same source and same amp would eliminate factors outside the DAC itself, but this does not ensure volume matching, which is critical in A/B testing. If the DACs have even slightly different output voltage (which they will) then the A/B test is invalid. you have to volume match the output from the AMP for each DAC to get a true A/B test, and you need to do that by measuring voltages. note this means you can't do a switching test with a single amp as you'd have to adjust the volume each time you switch, so you need two identical amps, one hooked up to each DAC, with the output from each amp volume matched, then you need a switcher device to switch your headphones between each amp. - why do you need to go to these lengths? because humans are exceptionally good at detecting even 0.1db volume differences (when A/B switching), and we then interpret the volume difference as a quality difference. So if you truly want to compare the 'sound quality' of each DAC you absolutely have to have near perfect volume matching.
I opted for the e30 too; can then use optical for tv audio sometimes. Also have it paired with the Atom and love it. The main difference is Without vs With this external dac. It gives more depth to the soundstage and reduces the occasional harsh peaks in some music compared to the Atom alone. Glad I have it! PS it's $130.
comparing dacs is difficult. i do notice differences between them but its sometimes hard to put my finger on what makes the difference or which one would be the better one so what i try to do is really try to enjoy a song that i like on one and then see if i can enjoy it as much on the other. while doing that i also try to pretend(visualize) in my head im listening to the other dac. if i really cant do that it means there must be a difference. the biggest and most obvious difference i heard was when comparing the dragonfly cobalt to the chord mojo. the mojo was obviously warmer and liquid sounding but also a litle too claustrofobic for me. it was different to anything else i tried. between others the differences may be smaller but they are often there. sometimes you just have to focus on another aspect of sound that you didnt think of before.
Earned yourself a sub, very good review mate! Also, just wondering about the shelve that houses your router/switch with the headphones atop, did you construct that yourself or did you buy it?
I'm currently using the Realtek ALC1220 DAC built into my ASRock motherboard, along with an Atom headphones amp, and have been considering getting the E30. However, even with all the volumes turned wide open, using sensitive headphones, there is no noise. It's pitch black, even when using the PC. So, I ran RMAA, using Line In/Line Out loopback, and got excellent results across the board: noise at -103 dB, with dynamic range at 103 dB, flat frequency response from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz, distortion figures below 0.005%, etc. These are all audibly transparent numbers, which is really unusual for a motherboard DAC. I wouldn't mind have the E30, just to play around with, but I'm having a hard time justifying the expense.
I was thinking about e30 and here you come thanks man. The production quality on this channel is amazing and for it having less than 5k subs is truly amazing. BTW i was thinking about buying the dx3 pro does that have the same quality dac as this and can I use that as a standalone dac if I want to change the amplifier. I'm gonna buy a dt 1990 do you have any suggestions, I live in india so options are a bit limited but I do get topping products, aune products, ifi zen dac and the ifi zen can. And what do you think about the e30 and the ifi zen can is that a good pairing.
dx3 pro has 10 ohm output impedance and lots of noise with iems/high sensitivity headphones. L30/E30 combo is probably the better choice from an all purpose perspective.
@@PK-qs5xw The ifi Zen Can certainly should be part of the conversation. It has a lot more power with high impedance headphones than the L30, although it won't be as surgical and clean sounding as the L30 either (though tbf, some people enjoy a bit of distortion). E30 is super clean as well, so it'll fit with any amp of your choice. The distortion you hear will be from the amp + headphone itself.
@@thebudgetaudiophile6808 im also thinking about buying the audeze lcd 2 classic and since it is 70 ohm and the dx3 was 10 ohm impedence i was scared of that.I looked at the l30 and it looks amazing I wish it was in india looks like i'll have to go with the zen can for now. Thanks for your help bro.
@@PK-qs5xw Planar headphones have flat impedance curves, which means that the output impedance of your amp won't mess with the frequency response. Could be 0.5 ohm or 10 ohm, it doesn't matter with a planar. You do need to watch out for interaction between OI and dynamic drivers and balanced armature drivers though, especially hybrid iems.
There is a pretty solid sleeper Dac/Amp out there.... the Soundavo HP-DAC1 for $125 bucks for those not looking to break the bank. Better than the FiiO K5 Pro and SoundBlasterX G6(if you don't need a mic input). Really clean/crisp sounding dac/amp. Made in the US too I believe. I recently broke down and bought the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label Dac/Amp. To my ears the Black Label is on a another level but it comes with a huge cost to your wallet. Music, Gaming and Movies have never sounding better... especially driving my DT 1990 Pro's(Dekoni Elite Hybrid Pads) and the AKG K712 Pro(which I tried because of the Wheezy review 👍). Both of these headphones have the sound signature I love and the Black Label Dac/Amp drives them beautifully. I guess my point is... I tried to go the cheaper route of Headphones and Dac/Amps and just was never completely satisfied and always looking for something better. If you want a next level sound experience... you need to pay for it unfortunately because you can hear the difference with the higher end headphones and Dac/Amps. Bite the bullet and spend around a $1000 between the Black Label Dac/Amp and the K712 Pro and you'll be set for Music, Gaming and Movies. Your search is over. Mine finally is.
I do love the K712 Pro its quickly becoming my most used open backed dynamic. Mostly cos I really love them for movies and games. I've been talking to iFi recently, hopefully I can get my hands on some of their gear for review, quite interested in the Black Label.
@@WheezyTech Same here man. I reach for the K712 Pro for gaming and movies 100% of the time now and my DT 1990 Pro's are basically now just for music and not getting as much love since the 712 Pro arrived. I know many headphone reviewers say the Hifiman Sundara are the best headphone bang for the buck... and It's hard to argue their value at $350 for music listening.... but after having both... I'd say the K712 Pro is the best bang for the buck headphone out there because it's a triple threat being so great with gaming and movies too. If you like classic Rock/hard rock/ heavy metal the K712 Pro's are great. And the Black Label is the best Dac/Amp I've personally heard/owned and is what I've been looking for as my end game Dac/Amp... but the price tag of $600 is is a lot to swallow for many. It took me a loooong time to finally pull the trigger. Keep up the good work. Always enjoy your stuff
@@PK-qs5xw Not sure yet, the Zen DAC does have a lower output than your average standalone headphone amp, I'd imagine it will be fine but I can't say for sure til I get them in to test.
One last pd. With so many "dumb" buttons on the remote one could argue why not use one of 'm buttons to swith from preamp to just dac (instead of all that 2sec 3sec fidgeting), right?
Thank you for the video. Does this thing reset to “amp” mode every time I power it off/on? Do I need to switch to “dac” mode manually every time? This would be annoying cause I just want to use it as a Toslink DAC but also power it completely off every time I turn my PC off.
Many thanks for another phenomenal review!. I just ordered this DAC however watching your review I realise that I don´t fully get the difference between pre-amp and DAC mode. I intend to use it paired with my JDS Labs Atom amplifier with the headphones plugged into the Atom, and be able to control the volume when not being at the desk (I sometimes listen to music in another room with an extended cable). So If I got you right you can only use the remote when the E30 is used in pre-amp mode?. It will not work to control the volume when used as a DAC connected to the Atom?. Many thanks in advance for your reply.
Pre amp = low power amp with volume control to go into a power amp that may not have volume control. Dac mode fixed volume output to go into a power amp/headphone amp/integrated amp etc that has its on volume control
Ohhhhh, I see..... (please don't mind my stupidity).... Zero db is the max vol (on preamp mod). Ok, got it, FINALLY. (Still trying to figure out what "C" stands for on no-auto-shut off, 😂)
Im trying to work out if I need to spend £130 on a DAC for my topping l30 and AKG k712 pros.. Please could you tell me what difference I would hear if i listened to music with and without a E30 DAC if any?? Thanks - very confused here.
So if i use it to drive the volume of a crown power amp,it wont process the sound as a dac coming from my pc at the same time? Does this make any sense,or i got it all wrong?
Yeah thats why I said you can connect it to powered speakers and use it as a preamp. If you dont have active speakers you of course will need an amp, that is true.
Good for you? Not everyone lives in america though, convert that price into canadian for example plus shipping and customs fees, and it's almost twice the price if not more. Clearly that option isn't for everyone.
I really like you channel....but I can't really consider this a review :( The A/B comparison struggle is real...this is why I rely upon reviews. But without an A/B switcher....I don't think you can do a review of a DAC, you just compare specs written on paper. The headphone button, line out and M buttons have no use. This remote will probably be used with more advanced dacs from Topping. I have owned an E30 for about a month, and there is a slight sound difference when using no external power (sounds a bit flat), a cheap or under-powered phone charger will make it sound tinny and make some highs a bit shrill. A decent quality power supply (Huawei P30) will level the sound a bit and add some dynamics. P.S. I understand this may be a pet peeve, but I really don't understand why some reviewers say it's a 100$ DAC. It's 130$, at least (no shipping, import or regional taxes). That is a 30% price bump or more, not really negligible. P.S.S: This is how you do a poorman's A/B. If you have an amp that can switch, that is much easier. 1) Get yourself a keyboard with some media hot keys or configure some combinations using software. 2) Install foobar portable version in 2 folders on your computer (how to on the web). 3) Connect both dacs via USB. 4) Configure each foobar to have a separate output source. Also use DS mode. (not ideal, I know). 5) Volume match each source using the Windows volume control (not ideal, I know). 6) Connect both dacs to the amp with the toggle. 7) Run both instances of foobar and start play by using the hotkeys on the keyboard for play pause. Give it a try :)
Why though? Even if there were differences audible, that can stand double blind testing, how would know these differences are what you prefer? If you're such an expert at this, do it yourself.
@@wcg66 Why ? Because....it is a review channel ...and that is the point of a review channel. The description of those factors could tell you if you like it. EG: If this sounds warm, and you like warm, then you might like it. I am no expert and I do not have access to such equipment. I was only pointing out that there might be ways to do A/B comparisons, without some equipment.
@@CraciunAlexandruGh Max says he could hear a difference, he gets someone tell him they unsubbed cos there is no way anyone could hear that much difference between DAC's. I said I couldn't hear a difference, effectively get critiqued for not trying hard enough. One day I might go so far as to do a full A/B, perhaps blind test between this DAC and another. But the point I made in my video, is: If that is what it takes to discern any difference at all, then its completely irrelevant.
@@WheezyTech Sorry...I was under the impression that you could not do the AB test, not that you saw no point in it. I understand your point of view and this is after all, your channel. It is, of course, anyone's option to follow the channel they so desire, though, if they are are saying that there is no difference in 2 such products, I do not understand why they are watching reviews at all. Anyway, I fully understand that differences between products might be small and would take more revealing and expensive equipment that someone would not pair with them, but I do see the value in mentioning these differences, minute and all. Cheers :)
Side note, fun fact, a well recorded A/B comparisson between 2 dacs: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JjciJLmcKzc.html . I personally can notice differences and they don't seem slight.
