Tough Qs on Same Sex Marriage 

Amen, 😢 I struggled for years, not following Christ. I jumped from one relationship to another with non-believers. And now, I struggle to not focus on my sinful past. I'm married now to a wonderful Christian woman. But, thoughts of these other women intrude and make me regret my past relationships and behavior. I wasn't strong enough to stay faithful to God's word. Being single is hard for sure, but I know God will bless the sacrifice and give your Daughter a fulfillment I wish I could enjoy. God bless you both.

​@@yousaywhatification I know you're trying to be encouraging but marriage is not guaranteed to every believer even those who have abstained their whole lives. I have done so my whole life and due to upholding that standard have not been on a single date and I'll be 30 next year. What married Christians need to do is pray for singles to be content in their singleness. If God decides he wants a person to get married that is great but if God doesn't want that person to get married, that is also fine. Marriage is not guaranteed to every believer. Marriage is not a reward for good behaviour. Marriage is a gift from the Lord like health, wealth and salvation. Singleness is not a punishement for bad behaviour. Paul was single and look at all of the good he did for the Church. Paul talks a lot about singleness and afirms singles in 1 Cor 7 which the Church should also be doing much better because it is in the Bible. Some people including myself may be lifelong virgins and may never get married. We can't act as if our life is on hold and that our end goal for abstainance is marriage because that isn't true. Our end goal is obedience to God and singles should continue to praise Him in spirit and in truth whether we get married or not.

@rubylonge4595 Again I agree, I never said you should or would get married. I was saying that you would be blessed for your sacrifice of carnal life. That may be in this life, that could also mean in God's heavenly Kingdom. I was agreeing to the praying for singleness and single brothers and sisters in Christ. I apologize if I offended you. God bless, I pray for your continued success and hope in faith. As I was not strong in my faith while in my younger years, and it is a stain on my righteousness. I only wanted to edify and support you. Take care.

​@@yousaywhatification You may not have said that but it was implied in your statement: "Being single is hard for sure, but I know God will bless the sacrifice and give your Daughter a fulfillment I wish I could enjoy". You are married so it's the only conclusion that can be made without additional explaination. It's difficult to infer otherwise. But thanks for explaining further. You didn't offend me. I mainly wanted to provide further explaination from someone who has waited and done everything "correctly" that I may not get what some think I deserve in this life or the next. Similarly, you seem to be struggling due to the decisions that you've made but rememeber that God still blessed you with marriage despite your sexual indiscretions. It further proves that just because people are abstaining it doesn't mean that they will get marriage and those that don't wait aren't barred from not getting married like yourself. They can go on to have wonderful marriages because God's grace is sufficient. I'm tired of how Churches and some married people are still behind in certain truths when it comes to abstainance and marriage. Many Churches still teach those who abstain will get married and those who don't will never get married. But with 1 out 2 kids being born outside of marriage this "truth" does not hold and we have to start telling people the truth that those of you who are abstaining may never get married and those of you who are not abstaining are not doomed to bad marriages. I've never heard a pastor say "you may not get married" and "I did nothing to deserve this marriage" because that's a hard truth to come to themselves. But most married people would find it an absolute nightmare to live through sexual desires that may never ever get fufilled in this life. Especially in this hypersexualised society. But this is the cross that a majority of abstaining Christians will now carry. "As I was not strong in my faith while in my younger years, and it is a stain on my righteousness." 2 Corinthians 5:21. Please stop beating yourself over about this. Jesus' death on the cross is more than enough to cover all of your sins and my sins too. Your faith only needs to be as big as a mustard seed, not an oak tree. The devil is the accuser and wants you to remain bogged down in your past sins but that is finished and was dealt with on the Cross when you believed in Jesus' death and resurrection. Please continue to go in peace and not in sorrow. That allows the Devil look like he's wining and gives no glory to God who has already won.

@yousaywhatification thanks for the blessing for our dd (dear daughter), and for your honesty about your regrets in trying to find fulfillment doing it your way ❤️ May your faith and love be strengthned as you turn those fiery darts away in Jesus , for His glory, Eph. 6, Isaiah 61 \o/

Amen. The power of the Gospel is everything. If they don't understand the Gospel, they will not know God's goodness, which leads them to repentance. If they do not know Jesus, why would they pick up their cross and follow Him? I think this is mostly a useful discussion to those who HAVE found the Gospel, but are confused by everything else.

This is why Jesus says; “You MUST be born again.”

Yes! I agree. Also like to add that holiness which the Apostle Peter says "without which no one will see the Lord" is living in the purity of God's love and Godly principles which follow his original intention for marriage between man and woman in the unity of becoming the one in which they were taken when God took the rib from the man and created woman. In Christ we become a "new creation" by his Spirit when we are born again in the Spirit and must die to self and our sinful nature and carry our cross, whatever that might be for us individually. So even though he allowed some moral concessions in the past due mans sinful nature, such as when God allowed Moses to issue divorce due to the heart hardedness of the people, Jesus said that was not God's original intention, and God's original standards are still in place for us to follow. In Christ we are born again by the Spirit and have our own cross to bear and sacrifice our sinful nature at the foot of the cross. He gives us the power of his resurrection, and love to transform our lives to the standard of holiness he requires of us. Amen Thank you for the clear Scriptural thoughts you shared.♥

He won't read it. Unlike myself who will discuss with you the error of his theology on gay unions as a Bible scholar? I'm right here.

I think I’d met over 50 people in my life ,that were touched as children buy church members not buy the gay community . I know god loves the gays cause iv known gay people that do more good works saving souls & putting into practice the actual word off god then many christens. They just edited the bible again in all universities . King James study bible taken key words out , & replaced it with THE NEW WORLD ORDER

I'm going to be 64 in a couple of weeks, and single. I have had relationships in the past and take full responsibility for their failure (I didn't get married!). Don't do what I do, follow Biblical advice. If you connect with Yeshua and gain acceptance, you will sit back and laugh at your present "frustration". Love in Christos (the anointed).

Great THX!

Thanks!

I'm sorry for my ignorance, but what is having a "T"?

@@NoTrashInHeaven this conversation was directed to LGB conversation. That said there was helpful conversation framing within this discussion that can be used for those of us who love someone claiming to be trans (T)

We are all born into sin. It looks differently in everyone. Please have Beckett Cook on.

Thx Esther. I enjoy it!

Christians treat people who are in the same boat with a different sin in a totally different manner though. For example, there are a lot of fat people that continue to practice gluttony who are not currently on diets. Those people are widely accepted into the church and never get questions. However...if you are gay...you are expected to be either abstinent or be working on it currently. They do weaponize the gay sin more than others, that's just objectively true.

Agreed. Especially if even masturbation is a sin. To be fair straight and celibate is also just as hard but straight and monogamous isn't even close to the same

They could probably very easily demonstrate by doing experiments on human fetuses that sexual orientation is biological, but of course that would be completely unethical(although I imagine some religious nut jobs would be up for doing it to eliminate the chances of having a homosexual child) So the next best thing is on animals, which they have done through changing the sex hormone levels to animals is exposed to showing that it changes whether the animal will be interested in same sex or opposite sex mates, and whether they will be more male-typical or female typical in traits and behaviours. There is an entire body of sexual orientation studies showing associated differences in brain function and prenatal hormonal exposure(like testosterone) studies done on countless different animals, as well disorders caused by excessive or deficient production of hormones that can lead the brain to be over or under masculinized, for example Congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) in females caused by an over exposure to testosterone that has masculinized their brains and made the more male-typical in gender traits. In animal homosexuality in females is attributed to an overabundance of male hormones - androgens - in the womb, while male homosexuality results from a lack of these. The existence of individual with durable homosexual orientation seems to be unusual among animal species except in some sheep. The only case known of spontaneous same sex preference found in animals is in a sheep population in the western part of the United States( this has no been found in wild sheep, only these domesticated rams). It could be argued that because you're dealing with domesticated species you're therefore dealing with genes being selected for female fecundity which have a byproduct of causing a certain amount of same sex behaviour among males, a sexually antagonistic effect.. Whatever the reason a significant fraction of rams in this population mate exclusively with other males when given a choice between a male or female partner. The brains of rams differ in several important respects from those of heterosexual rams. As reported in humans, the sexually dimorphic nucleus in the medial preoptic area, known as 0SDN in sheep, is about half the size iN homosexual rams compared with the heterosexual rams. The levels of the aromatase enzyme are lower in the 0SDN of homosexual rams than heterosexual rams, The levels of receptors for estrogen in the amygdala are lower in homosexual rams than heterosexual rams. In these sheep the SDN of the ovine POA (oSDN), a brain structure that is approximately three times larger in males than in females and contains about four times more neurons, was shown to be significantly smaller in male-oriented rams than in female-oriented rams. The oSDN also contained fewer neurons and expressed aromatase at reduced levels in male-oriented rams than in female-oriented rams. The features of this nucleus therefore correlate with sexual partner preference: subjects attracted to males (females and male-oriented rams) are similar and distinguished from subjects attracted to females female-oriented rams. The volume of the oSDN is already larger in males than in females around the end of embryonic life and differentiates under the influence of testosterone in males. Embryonic treatment of females with testosterone between 30 and 90 d of gestation results in a masculinized oSDN in females. Furthermore, the size of this nucleus is no longer modified in adulthood by castration or treatment with testosterone. The small size of oSDN in male-oriented rams is determined like in females by a relative lack of early exposure to testosterone. This nucleus is indeed located in the center of the POA, a region involved in the control of sexual behavior and male-typical partner preferences, and differentiated before subjects had an opportunity to express their sexual partner preference. Male-typical sexual orientation is controlled at least in part by the POA (like sexual behavior), and it differentiates under the influence of pre-/perinatal sex steroids. In humans several brain structures have also been shown to be different between homosexual and heterosexual subjects, In one case researchers discovered in the human POA a nucleus they called interstitial nucleus of the anterior hypothalamus number 3 (INAH3) (a member of four cellular condensations of the POA) that was significantly larger in men than in women. Subsequent studies showed that INAH3 is significantly smaller in homosexual men than heterosexual men, so that its size is essentially equal to what is observed in women.These finding suggest gay and straight men may differ in the central neuronal mechanisms that regulate sexual behaviour. It is very likely there are fewer neurons in INAH3 of gay men (and women) than in straight men. In rats and sheep, the size of a potentially homologous nucleus located in the same part of the POA (SDN-POA in rat, oSDN in sheep) is irreversibly determined by embryonic sex steroids. Moreover, lesions of this nucleus in adult male rats or ferrets modifies sexual partner preference, an animal model of sexual orientation. The smaller INAH3 of gay men most likely be a marker of deficient exposure to androgens during ontogeny and a cause of the modified sexual orientation. Damage to medial preoptic area in male rats or ferrets causes a change in their preference from female sex partners to male partners, suggesting that SDN-POA both activate attraction to females and suppress attraction to males. There is some evidence in male humans too for the active suppression of brain circuitry serving same-sex attraction in heterosexual individuals, Homosexual attraction and behaviour can appear in previously heterosexual men afflicted by the Kluver-Bucy syndrome, which is caused by the damage to structures in the temporal lobe including the amygdala, a major source of input to the medial preoptic area. In rats SDN-POA, the predominant neurotransmitter used by the neurons in this nucleus appears to be y-aminobutyric acid(GABA) which generally has an inhibitory action on other neurons. The suppression of attraction to males involves an inhibition exerted directlty by the neurons of SDN-POA (or INAH3) on cell groups elsewhere in the brain that promote attraction to males; this suppression may be released when the medial preoptic area is damaged or deprived of its neural or hormonal inputs. The size of the anterior commissure, measured in the midsagital plane, was reported to be larger in gay men than in heterosexual control subjects . The size of this commissure is known to be larger in women than in men. The differences between the sexes result from the early exposure of embryos to a different endocrine milieu: a high concentration of testosterone for male embryos in mammals and a much lower exposure to sex steroids in females. These differentiating (organizing) effects usually occur early in life, during the embryonic period and are irreversible. These organizing actions of sex steroids on behavior are paralleled by irreversible changes in brain structure. Embryonic sex steroids differentiate the size of several brain structures, including the sexually dimorphic nucleus of the preoptic area (SDN-POA). Once acquired, the sex-typical size of the SDN-POA cannot be altered in adulthood by steroid hormones and sexual orientation is not affected by activational effects of steroids in adulthood. Plasma concentrations of sex steroids are perfectly “normal” (typical of the gonadal sex) in both gay men and lesbians. The sexual preference of a male for a female is controlled, like the expression of male-typical sexual behavior, by the medial part of the POA. Experimental lesion of this brain region causes a reversal of the males' preference in rats and ferrets: after surgery, they prefer to spend time with other males rather than with sexually receptive females. Exposure to testosterone (or its metabolite estradiol) induces male-typical partner preference (preference for a female over a male sex partner), whereas in the absence of high concentrations of these steroids, a female pattern of mate preference will develop (preference for male partner). On average, male embryos are exposed to higher concentrations of testosterone than female embryos, but these concentrations vary around a mean value for various reasons (environmental, genetic, etc.). Male subjects at the lower end of this sex-specific distribution could thus acquire a female-typical orientation (and be gay), whereas females at the high end of the concentration curve would acquire a male-typical sexual attraction and be lesbian. Even if they are not attracted by the same specific individuals, females and gay men share an attraction for men, whereas males and lesbians share an attraction for women. A number of sexually differentiated morphological, physiological, and behavioral characteristics seem to be irreversibly influenced by embryonic hormones in humans like in animals. Many studies have quantified these features comparatively in homosexual and heterosexual populations to research whether homosexual subjects had been exposed to atypical hormonal conditions during their development. Positive results were obtained in a number of these studies. The sexually differentiated characteristics that have been studied in this context include variables that could be secondarily affected by homosexuality [e.g. performance in cognitive tests or physiological responses to the smell of androgenic or estrogenic steroids produced by males or females]. These traits were shown to be significantly different in homosexual and heterosexual men and/or women.

Great point.

Sure. It means that we move the issue to one we can agree to disagree over within the church and that it should not divide us.

Preston is a Christian 😊

😒😒 pray for your own souls salvation! Y’all are wild and need help…😂😂

Did Jesus hang with Christians with powerful testimonies or did he hang with the unlovable people and get called a winebibber? If you can't have compassion for the unloveable how can you be a Christian?

You mean you dont like reality or honesty? oh well.

@@PC-vg8vn Reality we have to interact with people of all beliefs in the real world. Honesty we may have to interact with these people and the NONES category is rising. Therefore engaging with people who don't believe the same way in a civil manner is a good thing.

Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery

Hey :) I just wanted to say that your question near the end from the live chat was excellent and I was wondering if you would possibly post it again in the comments so they can potentially have a chance to see it and address it for the next time 😊 (If not, I copy pasted it, if you'd alow me to repost w your name on your behalf) Thanks for your contributions again ☺

@@brightshining I asked so many questions can you give me some context? I know i was quoting about the marriage bed being undefiled and what if intersexed people got married and ones that have xy chromosomes but present as female. The first question He addressed I think was one of mine.

New Zealand!

@@SeanMcDowell That is great. Are you going to visit the Hobbiton where they made the Hobbit movies? They probably have a lot of movie things over there. Your going to get me a key chain and send it to me right? lol just kiddin.

Sorry, how is that "heresy?" I think you have a misunderstanding of what heresy is. The general definition of heresy is: 1.opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, especially of a church or religious system. 2.the maintaining of such an opinion or doctrine. 3.the willful and persistent rejection of any article of faith by a baptized member of the church. 4.Any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs, customs, etc. It is based around DOCTRINE and being contrary to what is taught in the bible. An example of heresy would be that "Jesus is not God." Or that "Jesus and the Father are the same person" (modalism). Another example would be that you must do good works, or you must do certain rituals in order to be saved. Or that Jesus isn't the only way to God. Or that Jesus was created by God. Those are just a few of many different heresies. But that all focus around doctrine. How is what he said "heresy"?

Yahmessiah that is a new one to put in my Tetragrammaton collection. Thanks.

Take everything you just said and instead of lGBT put African american or black person there. Then you might get a glimpse at why your statement might be caustic. Either way ultra woke or ultra conservative can be damaging to society.

When dealing with live situations profanity will slip by that is normal. When you go to the public store there are people there that use profanity you cannot just whisk it all away. Most Christians I know use forbidden words. That is all they are, words. As long as they are not being hateful or rancorous to a certain group I don't see the problem with it but you will see me not using it as a matter of respect to his channel. I only use it as emphasis if something has happened that is equally offending from someone. I hope that the offense of the word gives them the same feeling of the offense I have chosen to highlight.

Technically in the OT I don't think it says anything about a non related woman having relations with another non related woman.

@@mugglescakesniffer3943 Correct it doesn't. It's not a sin. According to the Torah which shows what's acceptable to YAH and clean for as sin.

@@heiromajjiktossh If you are observing OT law. It seems even with the "religious" law people pick and choose what they follow.

@@mugglescakesniffer3943 I agree.

9 of the 10 Commandments are explicitly restated in the New Testament and Jesus incorporates them in his answer that the most important are to love the Lord God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbour as you love yourself. (The ten are divided into what you do for God and what you do for others.) The remaining balance one is the sabbath, Jesus is the sabbath we rest in now. As for old covenant dietary laws, wearing of mixed clothing etc. those were laws only applied to Jews not gentiles. Those ceremonial and civil laws for the Jews were not binding on others but the moral law is for all. God punished non Jewish nations for the sins like homosexuality and drove them out of their lands yet never expected them to abide by the dietary laws or laws about clothing, ritual washing etc. Also, in the NT we are explicitly told that gentiles do not have to abide by laws that had been placed on Jews. Some Jews that accepted Jesus felt that gentiles who became Christians should get circumcised and eat clean, even amongst the apostles this was discussed. But God sent Peter a vision of a sheet lowered from heaven with unclean animals saying "rise, kill and eat." Peter said no, exclaiming he had never eaten unclean and God replied "let no man call unclean that which I have made clean." Henceforth Gentiles were not required to obey Jewish laws on food, circumcision etc. Paul goes on to reiterate this when discussing food laws and Jewish holidays. Furthermore he speaks of things that are a matter of conscience for each person, that may be right for one but not for another. So basically, ceremonial and civil laws were for the Jews only, moral law for all. Homosexuality being sinful was explicitly restated in the NT as were the laws on marriage. What we can take from various OT laws today is the principle however. We are not required to build a rail around our roof but we can take the principle that visitors to our home, mailman, contractors etc should not be put in danger. We don't have to leave corners of our fields unharvested for the poor any more but it is a good principle to give a portion of our excess to the poor. So it's not like all OT laws have nothing to teach us today even if they don't bind us.

@@littleboots9800 Hi many thanks for your reply. I really appreciate it. I can now understand the explanation for difference between Old Covenant and New Covenant. I take it to be that, in the case of homosexuality, it is condemned as a sin under both Old and New Covenants, but the punishment (death) only applies under in the Old Covenant. I hope that is correct. RU-vid is not the place to have long conversations, but I’d be grateful for your thoughts on just one point which relates to this Old / New Covenant distinction. It concerns the moral nature of God., which for me is perhaps the most significant issue I have with believing in Christianity. It seems to me and many others that the God of the Old Testament (Old Covenant) appears to be pretty much of a moral monster. For example, he commands genocide, commits genocide, condones slavery, commands sexual slavery, and does many other deeply morally problematic things. Presumably , it’s the same God in both Testaments, so has the moral nature of God changed (for the better) under the New Covenant?

@michaelsilveradventure5712 Yep. Guess that other generations got there by some sort of magic. Or you can reasonably reflect on how things more likely occurred.

@michaelsilveradventure5712 Look up Nathaniel Jeanson's work called "Traced." It spells out the science of how all the current population were probably produced in 4500 year's time. Remember, we started with human DNA, which was about 3 billion units of code long. At a change rate of only 3 mutations per generation, major differences can be produced 60 generations. Remember that these generations are probably not mutating in parallel but are diverging.

@michaelsilveradventure5712 Genesis 3:20 says, "And Adam called his wife's name EVE because she was the mother of ALL living." Where in the history that Genesis reports do you get the idea that God created other lines of people? When reading eyewitness reports, why wouldn't you listen to listen to what is said before you trump up other ideas about how we got here?

@@michaelsilveradventure5712 The Bible covers 1500 years of history in only 6 chapters. So you can't expect the same detail that you would get in much longer volume. Genesis 5:3 tells us that Adam was one hundred and thirty years old when he had Seth, the replacement son. So Cain could have easily been 100 years old when he killed his brother. In that time, Eve could have produced 15 daughters for him to choose from. The text doesn't tell us when he selected his wife. It could have been before or after he killed his brother. We are only told that it was after the death of Able and God's confronting Cain that he engaged in actions with his wife that resulted in a son. The challenge is to carefully read the text and then reflect on what it is saying.

Yeah, this is just an irrational and simply untrue comment. I could sit here and explain what’s wrong with your thinking. But all I will say is, try sitting down with a person who is same-sex attracted, and telling them that they chose that attraction, and they were not born that way. Let me know how it goes. I’ll be waiting here for an update.

@@claytonrath8033 I don't need to and I actually have, multiple times. My answer is the same for EVERY desire outside of God's ordinance. It's great to be understanding and empathetic, but it doesn't erase or negate truth and this isn't an intimate conversation, it's a simple question which I argue has a simple answer. All I'll say is keep the same energy when you answer someone who is 'minor person attracted'. Because every justification you use for sexual immorality can be used against you when you reach your threshold/tolerance level.

@@Alphadavid99 Did you choose to be attracted to be women, David?

Your 'true" answers have no science to back them up. It is not as simple as you put forth. Do you have someone LGBT in your family that you love?These people are going Love first and it just kills legalistic people like you. 1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not [a]love [for others growing out of God’s love for me], then I have become only a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal [just an annoying distraction]. 2 And if I have the gift of prophecy [and speak a new message from God to the people], and understand all mysteries, and [possess] all knowledge; and if I have all [sufficient] faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love [reaching out to others], I am nothing. 3 If I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body [b]to be burned, but do not have love, it does me no good at all.

@@lark8356 sounds great, yes please 🙌🏾

You are right. I agree with you 100%. This should not even be a topic among Christians.

Ask a Rabbi, why the Jews don't follow some of the ordinances of the Torah? You won't feel so smug afterwards!

@@Bullcutter Xtian Hypocrites pointing to OTHER HYPOCRITES as the answer. LOL

This is an easy objection for any pastor handle. If you want answers go to a pastor and ask about that. Old vs new testament etc. sit down with someone who knows the word and ask your toughest questions and get the answers see if they hold water. You wont because you are repeating talking points you heard from someone else. You are simply attacking something you know nothing about not because you want to understand truth but because you are have hatred in your heart.

@@alpacapicnicfarm1789 The Bible allows Jews to BUY and OWN OTHER PEOPLE. The Bible allows Jews to BEAT THEM. The Bible allows Jews to PASS THEM AS INHERITANCE. Yahweh had the time to forbid MIXED FABRICS and forbid SHELLFISH but when it came to SLAVERY, he just had to go with the "customs" and "practices" of the Near East region and prevailing times. JESUS saw SLAVES being bought and sold and beaten and passed as inheritance and NEVER SAID: STOP THIS SLAVE BUSINESS. LOL

@@sanjeevgig8918 I'm not fond of comedy in theological issues. Are you a Hindu nationalist?

Romans 1. Very clear same sex relationship forbidden. This passage Has nothing to do with temple prostitutes. Its the one passage that cant be explained away with culture. Although the passages in corin you speak of also forbid it as well And the icing on the cake is. It said that some of them used to be homosexuals and repented and were washed in the blood. So clearly it is overcomeable

@@lark8356 That is entirely up to you.

@@alpacapicnicfarm1789 Um the temple prostitutes and other women who are tempting men with "other gods" are all over the OT. Shrine prostitutes and concubines are all over in the OT as well. So, is being black overcomable? Because there is biological neurophysiological evidence for this. What do you do with someone who is XY but presents as a female? What do you do with intersexed people? this is not a choice issue and peer pressure to conversion therapy is like telling people bleach your skin and fit in. I find it as offensive as that. Clearly you don't see all the suicides, hospitalizations and recidivism rates for "conversion therapy". the main point I was making about the temple prostitutes and concubines is that God was more bothered by them tempting men with other gods than actual sexual acts.

um I would replace that word with mate. C'mon be nice in the chat.