Towing With An Electric Truck - Is It Cheaper Than Gas? Rivian R1T vs Ford F-150 PowerBoost 

Add to that, the F150 with proper maintenance would last over 2 decades. While the R1T in less than a decade has a battery pack already in route to be replaced, with a cost that most likely totaled the truck.

@@RogerM88 B I A S D E T E C T E D

@@jonnathan780 awwwww do inconvenient problems get you upset? Lets talk about how the battery degrades after time so your range shrinks over the life of the battery.

what about time differences in fill up to charge up? Time is money and money is time.

@@RogerM88 this is something I was interested in and compared to my 2001 ram 2500 with the Cummins. $28000 new. Put 100 k miles on it before I sold it. Kept receipts for most major repairs. Excluding costs which would most likely be needed in the rivian as well, I spent over 15,000 in repairs . Rivian ( per the chief engineer) has a battery life of about 400 thousand miles. Current cost of batteries is between $100 and $140 per kWh. So replacement cost is between 18000 and 25000 for the 180 kWh battery I’m looking to purchase. Battery costs decreasing quickly, so this figure will likely be less in the future. These facts, plus no oil changes or dual fuel pumps to replace (which I had to do on my diesel- twice for the transfer pump) made me keep the rivian in the running for my next truck. Electrics aren’t a panacea, but there is a lower cost to maintain which must be considered when calculating total cost of ownership. Your point is well-taken, battery failures could pump the cost up, but the rivian battery is warrantied for 8 years/175,000 miles which is more miles than I will ever put on a truck. Others put LOTS more miles on their vehicles and current electrics probably aren’t for them until the battery and charging tech improves. But for my use case, electrics will be much cheaper for me.

Ugggh!! All that dirty extra coal burning at the powerplants for these Not-So-Green ev's. When you're outa juice in the wilderness, you're out of friggin' juice!! EV crowd will have to decide which member of their party they'll have to cannibalize to survive. No thanks!! 😆😂🤣

Then BEV isnt there for you right now.

@@MAGGOT_VOMIT The grid is moving more towards renewables, and will continue to move in that direction, so even if you live in a state that relies 100% on coal (none do, but for argument sake), eventually, the electric car will be greener and cheaper to "fuel". Right now, it's still greener AND cheaper in all but 3 states to run an EV (Wyoming, West Virginia, and Kentucky). I'm not a super-fan of EV's as i'm a pilot and rely on fossil fuels, plus I own 2 V-8 vehicles, one is even supercharged. So unless you live in Wyoming, West Virginia, and Kentucky, it's greener/cleaner to charge your EV than to run a fossil fuel car.

@ awesome-Austin if you only use public fast chargers you won’t save any money over gas, although you do not contribute as much to climate change. Where you save money is if you charge at home. I went from spending $170 to $35 going from my gas car to electric. I also have not done any oil changes in the last five years. I bought a new set of tires at 60,000 miles and I paid for an alignment and that is the only money I have spent. When I had my diesel VW, the 30,000 mile maintenance was $900, so I have definitely saved money with the EV.

@ awesome-Austin Just as Expensive, try WAY MORE expensive than gas powered versions.

That's great! Any updates on your truck?

If I understand your comment, you're stating that the cost you have already paid is not worth using over $27 cost you have not paid and comes from your income for a month or wealth. You cannot even get the money for having too much generation of electricity because you just said it is off the grid. You have also eliminated any increases in price of electricity in your set up so that doesn't even make sense.

What will you do when they take away your gas and diesel?

Why didn’t you close the tonneau cover on the Rivian?

Yep, fill up the gasoline tank in 5 minutes or wait 45 minutes or more to change up your batteries. 1000 mile trip towing almost 8 hours of charging, sounds good to me!!!!

@@tedmoss they?

@@tedmoss I’m for internal combustion myself, but I have a feeling as these are phased in, we will see a dramatic increase in distance per charge.

Let's just casually forget this thing is double the cost of the gas truck the carpenter would be using. Affordable. LOL

@@venom5809 I did the math on monthly payment vs savings in fuel and it came up to a slight win for the Lightning (vs my 2020 F150 XLT 3.5L Ecoboost). Include less mechanical "wear and tear" maintenance and it's even better. It won't work for everyone but for someone like me who tows AT MOST 100mi/day for my job, this is a win in my books. I'm not a EV fan boy by any means, but whatever makes more sense for the business is going to get my business.

better yet, you charge off the power at the job site.

"some parts of the country". Oh, you know, just about every part outside of New England and California. Just a small section.

search for "Bjorn towing" if u want to check out similar videos

Agreed!

In Europe we barrely tow at all.. if or when we really need to tow something big we go to companies to hire & rent a semi-hauler.. Rivian would be so perfect for Europe !

In Europe we barrely tow at all not evem mentioning the long distances.. if or when we really need to tow something big we go to companies to hire & rent a semi-hauler.. Rivian would be so perfect for people in Europe ! ;0)

With 3000-4000 lbs in the trailer........ya right! What a joke.

100% EV will not do that in 24 hours

@@alperez4166 _

Battery trucks will never replace fossil fuel trucks. Hydrogen power will, and that's why no one, including Tesla, is mass producing battery semi trucks, or even battery pickup trucks for towing.

crammed down peoples throats with our tax dollars in subsidies come on dude this just helps peeps that want one for real it ant like they say they are outlawing gas vehicles

You can't teach these green new deal idealists anything, because most of them are trust fund babies, who have 0% experience in the real world.

The subsidies allow the vehicles to be made and we learn leasons on what works, doesnt and we are all the better for it. Kinda how technology from NASCAR or F1 racing makes it into evertday cars. It is all an experiment. Maybe it works, maybe it doesnt, but it takes money and people to find out.

I'm not towing my cattle to market w/o DIESEL

Best reply ever

Not counting all the down time while charging too… I thought we where out of grid 5-10 years!Here in Ca we have outages because of all the AC units running during summer

@@jamesegbert3564 Yup the grid can't handle true EV adoption, and this 7k trailer in the example is entry level trailer in terms of weight. EV have a long way to go. ... honestly the battery tech, and ability to charge have a long way to go Electric motor have been moving freight via trains for decades.

@@davez2989 exactly. for pure power electric motors have little issue. Using Hydrogen as a storage medium would shorten refueling/charging time for electric while getting the benefits of more powerful motors

@@jamesegbert3564 and lets not forget when your POWER COMPANY shuts shit off so as to not risk yes ANOTHER deadly fire due to them NOT burying the lines and secondly for NOT maintaining much of the power liens in the state much like Texas does not do shit to maintain its power lines

One thing to consider, the Rivian's curb weight looks to be a bit "heavier" than the current data for the lightning, so if all other things are equal, wouldn't the rivian be more "planted" while towing? Although I'd prefer the 150's wider body and tow mirrors.

agreed, just rent a pickup if you need to tow all day. Though I bet if I had a Rivian I could find a friend or two willing to trade trucks for a few days. Obviously anyone in the tow all day everyday is looking more into a diesel for that application. I think longer range phev's might be the future for towing with a pickup

That trip would take forever. Do the math of how many times to would have to stop to recharge.

@@04dram04 did you even read my comment?

@@brandenflasch lol amazing how he commented without reading the original comment

Are you perhaps towing on level ground?

The dirty secrets about Lithium mining haven't seen mainstream exposure yet, and likely won't due to leftist "green policies" (propaganda). I will maintain/repair/replace every single item on a diesel before going to an EV

@@jamesphillips2285 Not towing on level ground, but not towing in the Rockies either. We are based in CT and New England, PA and upstate NY have plenty of rolling Hills. If we haul at high speeds, we get lower mpg, but at 70mph she really does get close to 12 mpg with a full load.

@@Isaacs-hw3bh yea I agree & that sounds about right for our f350 6.7. It was 995 ft/lbs stock so a little more now & it will dang near jerk the trailer off the ball. Only run goosenecks & you can't tell its there either. These new diesels are totally different than the older ones, the ol 7.6 power stroke was good but doesn't even compare to the newer diesels! 👍

A succinct response. The tester talked non-stop the whole video

Electricity has already increased 45% since he shot this video.

Yeah and he got really lucky with the charging location, not to mention a lot of those pull in spots are for compact cars. Love my EV daily but it will be a while before I replace my work truck with a 100% EV. One of those plug in hybrids where I can do 90% of my daily chores on electric then use the ICE range extender for towing road trips (track day car hauling) would be the best of both worlds, at least until the battery tech catches up. There will be more pull through spaces as fueling stations upgrade but that is way in the future.

@@thebeacon2 I have a Cybertruck on preorder but I've never drove or charged a Tesla. No one has them in Michigan! No Tesla sales or service centers allowed in this state. How much is the Kwh cost for Supercharging? That 35 cents for EA seems high compared to a residential rate of less than 12 cents in most places. Although I guess a Tesla not towing is getting 5x the efficiency of that Rivian while towing, so a much lower cost regardless!

@@Nphen Grand Rapids and Clarkston are two cities I know do repairs. A lot more common down here, not so much up North yet.

what,on earth, convinced you to buy an ev. did you even look into how there manufactured, costs, longevity, ease of maintenance, ?, anything,?, other than, oh, its clean & green. which they are far from..for longevity,ease all of the above, above all cost. your better off with a decent 80,90,s v8. &, get lpg, fitted, raise the compression, cheap, & 1/3 more power. i have an 82 bronco, on lpg only, fitted 302c heads to the 351c, compression of 12.1. no other mods. goes like a cut cat & cheap. 14 yrs now, never touched it. see how your model y uk, is in 14 yrs. you,ll be on your 5th by then.. ignorance is bliss, watch vids on lithium & cobolt mining,, then ring save the children fund.. happy travels, while you begin to think.. theres a vid on henry ford, cars in general. there was on electric car back in 1920,s. ish, 80 mile range. cost nothing to charge. plus there were steam, even in ww2, your ev, is nothing new, just 300 times the price..

Yeah, I'm all for progress, but we aren't there yet as fast as using EV'S for trucking and hauling long distance. I don't know why people don't just let progress take over and they try to force everyone to start using the EV'S by a certain date. Honestly, of it makes more sense economically to use EV'S they will take over and nobody will worry about it or fight it. But ringing the fuel prices to try to squeeze out fossil fuel is wrong.

Laughable attempt to increase the cost for EVs. Two hours costs? How much do you charge for your time? Let's be sensible. The longer the distance you drive in an EV the more money you save over using an ICE vehicle. For every 100 miles you drive in an ICE vehicle you'd have to drive at least 300 miles in an EV to rack up the same fuel costs, often a lot further. Minimum wage in America is $7.25 per hour. That means two hours charging would cost you $14.50 in labour if people were suddenly being charged labour costs for waiting for their car to fill up. The average EV costs $8.50 for every 100 miles of driving. The average ICE vehicle costs $29.44 per 100 miles. So you save $20.94 for every 100 miles you drive if you use an EV. You only have to drive 500 miles and that's $104.70 going back in your pocket. If you used my yearly distance as a gauge that would mean at least $2,931.60 saved annually over using an ICE vehicle on fuel alone. And that's not counting the "fuel" you create with regenerative braking as you drive which is ABSOLUTELY FREE. If you want to add random non-existent costs to try and make the EV more expensive then I'll counter you with ENDLESS FACTS AND MATHS.🤯

A laughable attempt by you to make the EV truck look practical for hauling anything any real distance. You can argue all the dollars and cents costs all you want but it doesn't change that fact. And at the end of it's service life all you have is an expensive boat anchor that will only cost more to recycle.

@@trevorberridge6079 Laughable attempt to justify an EV!!! 1) if you're making minimum wage, you cannot afford an EV. 2) do the calculation at $50/hour, like the average person makes. Two hours of charging costs closer to $100 than $15. Now do the math... Okay, now let's tow my RZR to my daughter's house - 600+ miles one way, or 9.5 hours. Oh, forgot, the EV has a range of 100 miles before you have to stop for 2 hours to charge it. Oh, and it's rural OR, so long stretches with no gas stations, and certainly no charging stations! But if there were charging stations every 100 miles, it would turn my 9.5 hour trip into a 21+ hour NIGHTMARE! Then, there's the trip home... Seriously, EVs are not ready for prime time, no more than solar is. EVs are bad for the environment (lithium mines, etc.) bad for the roads (much heavier than gas vehicles) and bad for the landfills (batteries have to go somewhere). Just say "NO" to EVs. They're useless feel-good vehicles for uninformed hippies.

@@trevorberridge6079 It depends what is the value of your time and is it wasted time. If you have no way to use that time and it is during your workday, it is easily very expensive.

Btw Outofspec missed a large bit of info Wellington-Cheyenne is a 1311ft vertical elevation change. Not just a small% of elevation change over distance. ...Missed one big equation xtime vs xmoney$(time ismoneyl and goung 500 miles is a 2 day affair with the Rivian. Ford is 500 miles ahead the following day.

Great option, too bad it wasn't used. Surprised it wasn't found on the test.

I quite like that feature on my Expedition. VERY handy with a 21ft boat. :)

It is nice to have blind spot monitoring with a trailer. I love how my Ram does it automatically with no programming. Just hook up the trailer and it sets length accurately itself.

Instead of hoping you programed the truck to pull your trailer correctly and hoping the truck knows how to back your trailer in every possible situation you might encounter, you could, oh, I don't know, learn how to pull/back your trailer yourself. Also, are you really ready to trust your lives to a computer in an emergency situation? As someone who has driven every truck and pulled every trailer legal on the highway over the last 40 years, I can say with 100% confidence that learning how to pull a trailer safely is the only way to go. Never will I ever trust a computer.

@@s.hooper4683 I agree with you - they’re great driving aids, but I would never rely solely on those types of notifications exclusively. Blind spot monitors don’t replace a proper shoulder check, but we all make mistakes, and if that driving aid can help me avoid a collision as a result of something I missed, then I’m all for it!

Tongue weight plays a big role too. Generic trailers can't be designed to optimize tongue weight because every situation is different. Get the tongue weight right and it will tow better. Get it way wrong and you may end up in the ditch.

The Rivian also has independent motors for each wheel which allows it to precisely control the power delivery, stability and grip. No combustion engined vehicle can do that. The Rivian also has the "tank turn" ability which allows it to spin the left and right side wheels in opposite directions and rotate the truck on the spot like a tank. Again something that's not even possible in a combustion engined vehicle. There's a lot more than just the weight making the Rivian stable.

@@trevorberridge6079 It's not possible? Really? You can't put electric motors on ICE vehicle? I guess all people who put winches on their didn't get the memo. You really should think things thru a little better before you type them in for all to read. And why in Hell would I want to rotate my truck on a spot like a tank? But tank is a good analogy for a Rivian since it weighs 7,000 pounds.

@@oneordinarycitizen 🤣Someone doesn't understand that putting EV motors on an ICE vehicle stops it being an ICE vehicle. It's called an EV Conversion. What a desperately idiotic comeback. Leave thinking to people with brains. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@@trevorberridge6079 Yes, a bunch of useless 'features'.

I think on the dash of one of the vehicles it said 46 degrees.

Or when the temp is below 20 degrees.

Temperature doesn't really change that much... how much do you think would efficiency change?

@@IIARROWS According AAA, EVs lose 40% of their range at 20 deg f. They tested most of the top EVs.

@@cvr527 with or without heat pumps

One thing to keep in mind is that the EV charge network they used (Electrify America) charged a lot more than other networks - Tesla Superchargers are averaging 16 cents/kWh for me over the last month, and the highest rate I have seen them charge us 24 cents/kWh.

@@lairdpopkin7003 Great info. That makes a big difference.

Supercharging stations I use in New England are 26-31 cents/kWh

The problem is going to be to drive 500 miles your going to have to charge it twice at least. And as more and more people start charging who's to say your not going to have to wait behind 3 people charging and your 6 hour trip is going to take 12 hours.

thx for summary

You just made a few soyboys cry by using facts.

Right on

[All the Diesel drivers chuckle]

Agreed but it will keep closing the gap as the tech evolves.

If you have a relatively short commute say 20 miles or less each way.

why would it struggle to get upto speed? that thing floored with a trailer is faster then a f150 with nothing... but other then that, the range do be SHIT

Thats been my thought on EV tech thus far. I think EV's are great for a to and from work vehicle or local shopping etc but as a work vehicle there just not there yet. At my old job we looked into switching some of the fleet of work vehicles over, but even if you saved some money short term in the long term the cost of replacing a battery just torpedoed any savings.

The good news with using petroleum is that it's producing carbon dioxide which is plant food which helps to green our Earth. Right now the carbon dioxide level of the Earth is fairly low compared to the average which is 2600 ppm. There would be a super abundance of food if we could get the carbon dioxide levels even up to 1500 ppm.

Completely agree on the highway front. In town this is a good work truck for trades - can tow weights very for short distances. The other real-world test would be 250kgs (~500 lbs) in the bed. Working suburban or rural a diesel hybrid looks like a good option if you have home charging and want range. As for the US gallon/European audience comment... there are more F-150's per capita in Canada and a good F-150 market in Mexico (see Lobo) and those countries are metric so get those litres in there.

@@DerekTinney There may be an issue using a truck like this for trades even in a local setting. I know that when I have had work done on my house the contractors normally ask to use the electricity to run their tools. That is no big deal and not even really noticeable on my electric bill. But imagine 2 or 3 guys coming to your home to do work and plugging their trucks in while they work during the day. You don't think too much of it until you get the bill at the end of the month.

@@mujaku How dare you use science. 😁

Or added airbags to the rear of the f150 and provide a better ride. $4500. Great point.

Since you wished to nitpick in an effort to find the worst case for EV, then we use the worst case for the ICE. The guy didn't need to go to a fueling station to charge his EV. He paid $7.80 to get to the point and he never has to go to the gas station. You then have to factor in the fact you had to drive that ICE there, and it lowers your efficiency. You are also assuming that you needed to actually charge on a charger and that you were not charging somewhere where you actually gained electricity as part of the charge for staying there, which could possibly mean that the charging to get to a destination is actually $0.

@@ronaldking1054 you ever tow far distance? How many charge stations are out there and how long does it take. Factory in the king charge times and if someone is taking the charger how much longer might your trips end up being? Time is also money. They need many more years of developing and expanding to make these vehicles worth it. Until then these are just cool gadgets and new tech for nerds to drool over. They are neat but just a toy at this point and a fad. Everyone wants to pretend they are saving the world by having one. What’s happens if you run out of charge too? Gas truck someone can driver you gas. I guess someone could deliver a generator too.

@@ronaldking1054 I watched a special show on TV where they took a new Ford F-150 and a electric truck and tooled each truck up to the same trailer that had the same load in it and drove both trucks the same 200 mile round trip then filled both up with fuel or electricity. After all the figures were in what it costs to drive both trucks was hardly any difference in cost between the two vehicles. Unfortunately bottom line is it’s not going to make any difference what you drive or what type of fuel you use cause long as others have control over what they can charge the public as a whole that goes unregulated in any way. Not to mention taxes added for roads, etc. that keeps getting added to the cost! We’re all going to be paying thru the nose or a arm and a leg or your first born, whatever the cost is to get you to where you want to go? Our day of getting reasonable fuel prices went away back in the 70’s and with a government that doesn’t really care what we have to pay for fuel we’re pretty much screwed having to pay a fortune whatever we drive?

@@ghostridergale Towing takes half the range so which electric truck did it as there are none with 400 range on their battery packs? It sounds like you described this video, but ignored that he also explained the case for home charging is less than $10.

Facts!!

ANOTHER VERY WELL SAID COMMENT!!! Look guys, I'm ALL FOR technology, but it just is NOT THERE YET and I don't see it ANY TIME SOON to being there? Plus I keep telling people, you MUST think about the power grids and such. You just CAN NOT expect each and every city to be able to handle that type of "load" from the power grid and/or have THAT many charging stations for ALL EV's that pass through and ESPECIALLY, at least for now, take about an hour or more, just to charge up!!! Anyways, SO GLAD I'm not the only one thinking outside the box because the people I work with DON'T!!! They think I'm against technology and such, when in fact, I'm just thinking outside the box and logically about the facts as stated by many here!!!

Please show links that show EV batteries last only 100K on average. Who would want an EV at all if that were even close to being the case? Teslas are million-mile cars. The oldest Teslas are over 400K miles so far, with very little degradation. Even crappy, tiny, old Prius batteries are lasting 200K+ miles. Obviously, there will be the outliers that have batteries that go bad through abuse or just plain bad luck, but this number is extremely small, especially compared to the seemingly poor reliability of an average ICE. Currently, I'd only trust a Toyota gas or hybrid to easily attain 200K+ miles without proper maintenance (for a worst-case scenario). I'm excited to see the EVs they will be bringing out. Nothing's perfect right out of the gate. Heck, there are some manufacturers that still can't make a dependable and long-lasting vehicle, 30-50 years later. Technology is changing at a blistering pace, and the issues of charging times, infrastructure, battery composition, etc. are being aggressively addressed by pretty close to all vehicle makers on Earth.

tbf. tesla still have the superior advanced batteries compared to its competitor😂 probably helps that he manufactures the batteries in his facility

And top it all off over time that battery will need to be replaced which will eat up everythng you saved at a huge price plus the R&R labor and then there is the disposal fee. And don't even think about having an accident and that battery manages to get punctured..

Especially if you're towing a hot rod to a car show..... Ten minute fuel stops is not worth the 4 dollar savings..

Time is money, and also time lost is gone forever, no chance of getting it back, ever

As a plumber/ gas engineer, I cannot afford to be waiting around for my van to " recharge" plus here in the UK, EV vans are restricted on the weight they can tow because of the battery weight... I drive a 2L turbo diesel ( 65 reg Ford Transit)

WOW, I'm apparently NOT the only one when it comes to "time is money" concerns!!! I just saw your comment as soon as I posted my own. GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE!!! 🤜🤛

ah, yes.. can't post an electric vehicle review without the anti-EV trolls coming to take a dump on it.

Right

plus I think if they would have access to tesla superchargers they wouldn't be running out of chargers

It’s also possible to produce your own electricity, to produce your own fuel is a bigger hassle…

With the exception of Tesla, I believe you are correct. Tesla's charging network is getting pretty good. Tesla's V3 charging stations reduce 20-80% charge times to like 15-20 minutes. By the time you pee and buy snacks, you're back on the road for another 200-250 miles. All the other 3rd party charging companies have a lot of work to do to catch up.

@@N8TheSnake good point. And Electrify America’s rates seem incredibly high. Supercharging for me is averaging 16 cents/kWh over the last month, and 24 cents/kWh is the highest I have ever seen. I can only hope that competition will drive down some if the more overprice network pricing.

"Currently EVs are commuting champions and IC vehicles are the road trip champions." Mostly true - I would argue when not towing, Tesla's or this Rivian (with sufficient charging along the way) are in fact great road trip vehicles. Most people should be stopping for 20 minutes or so every few hours. If I was going really long distances, perhaps that would get old but for most road trips EVs with automatic lane keeping + adaptive cruise control are really nice.

Cough, cough, cough.

They just want to trade one evil for another. Lithium mining is their dirty little secret where the earth is still being polluted just in a different way along with child labor being used to mine the lithium in the Congo but hey people will still buy them just like those child labor Nikes people wear. It's all downhill from here, the IDIOT that's in charge is destroying the US and making people believe it's for the better. How you gonna put fuel in those cars how you gonna put food on the table? It's all a larger plan to take control and into communism, enjoy what's left cause the party is over and hell is upon us....

your right about time = money but this is just the start .tech will keep up with demand eventually remember dial up internet and now its up to 5gig 13 years later

@@markmorales573 I do remember all that but we're talking about energy consumption which is probably less now for computers that aren't towing anything...we can only watch and see where batteries go or some other power source that doesn't require rare earth metals etc

@@wdwilson397 i agree ,just saying its just getting started .,but im more worried about the batteries exploding like celpones and those little two wheeled things used to do ,those were small batteries in comparision

It’s already taxed. Electric cost per khw would skyrocket in an all EV world.

In WA, every EV pays a special fee in its annual registration to replace the fuel tax it's not paying. EVs do not freeload.

@@ab-tf5fl you are not understanding, I'm talking about interstate travel. Say you live in California and travel to Texas. With an ev you are not paying road tax for Texas and all the states in-between.

@@jamesf2697 You can make the argument about gas cars. If you fill up at one side of a state border and drive to the other side, are you paying gas taxes to the other state? The answer is no, and nobody cares. Also, in many states, public charging stations charge sales tax. And, if you're doing an EV road trip as long as California to Texas, you're not going to be able to home-charge all the way. You will be using the public charging stations, and you will be paying taxes, in addition to the taxes-through-registration fees you pay to your home state.

well even if you increased mileage driven to 75 each way i don't think someone like this guy can ensure he drives the same each time which WILL affectthe outcome.

Fueling is faster, for now, but ICE trucks dump more pollutants into the air. I'll take the extra time to help preserve our only planet. Not to mention, I love the quiet of the electric vehicles.

And how much does a tank of gas cost?

@@philborer877 look up lithium mining not so environmentally friendly. Where do you think that power is coming from to charge an electric car. Here's a hint fossil fuels

@@mattd19902010 Solar Panels on your home can be used to charge. Also, I’m looking forward to the solar power plants.

Yeah I question this also. I made the comment that I had a 94 Chevy truck with a 350 V8 and still got 8 mi per gallon towing a heavy truck/trailer. They really didn't use the right truck for this test

@@scott-dcw-1741 I believe because it's a turbo V6, it stayed downshifted and boosted the whole time so there's efficiency loss there

@@worthypook yeah probably. Any way to make combustion engines look bad eh?

How much more did the ev cost over the hybrid?

Probably the truck they had access to. There are others using different models doing similar comparisons.

Please remember that he said that the gas truck was actually a hybrid, and at one point he mentioned that the electric motor was assisting the gas motor.

@@justinweatherford8129 yeah, but because load was really high and battery has a low capacity, the electric assistance is really small, actually that's why, in this conditions, they get basically the same fuel consumption of a non hybrid Ecoboost. (By the way, in these days gas prices are too high too, if they go down, the comparison between ICE and EVs will be worse for EVs, and we have to add that minerals like lithium, nickel and cobalt are going up too). Greetings

well i mean theres high flow pumps which all gas stations have

@@thresh9606 only big truck diesel pumps are high flow due to no filler neck on the fuel tanks, regular gas tanks have bends in their fuel neck going into the tank, fuel would be blowing back out the fuel spout if they used high flow pumps for gas

this was obviously not a time comparison video... It takes thousands of years to store the energy in gasoline, not to mention huge refining operations and having to explode it in your vehicle just to extract the energy back out. Gasoline is like liquid pre-charged battery. With EVs, most of that work is done at the charging station, and it's a wonder that you can charge a battery in a matter of hours rather than millennia.

Sure there is, it's called the truck/RV lane and quite a few diesel and gas trucks use it, I do.

I fill my F450 at truck stops, with their fast fuel dispensers, 10 minutes from the time I pull the nozzle from the pump to put it back would probably completely fill my 48 gallon tank.

its not that proper its not a perfectly fair comparison when they had 2 people in the ICE truck and only 1 person in the electric truck.

@@yomomma1459 the math wasn't done properly either, charge time was approximately 50 min. He conveniently didn't add the .20 mark up, about 3.00 in total making it higher then gas

I was about to ask to see this same test with a 3/4 ton diesel, since the diesel economy is much greater than that of gasoline while towing or under load.

On top of having lower center of gravity

& the rivian is only $93,000 out the door. I wonder how far I can tow in summer. 90 Miles? Then a nice 10 hr Charge. Sounds fun.🤔

@@Bellathebear777 😂😂😂

Lmao and they are talking about making electric big rigs. You can see here that it would never work. Range is the biggest problem and then charging time. Time is money and if you can't drive very far and then have to charge all day its laughable. And judging by this video the cost per mile of an electric semi would be the same or more than diesel.

Every use case is going to be different. If you're towing cross country, then having to charge every 100 miles is gonna suck. If you charge at home and stay with in range then it's going to be great. Some people are also going to value the lower emissions and plus gas is going to average up in price (not even looking at current conflict pricing)

Only if you’re getting paid by the mile for freight or something like that. Most peoples trips aren’t that long luckily. The reason long haul trucking can’t work with the EV model.

@@mg20001 Everything is going to average up, including the cost of electricity and the cost of materials to build your EV.

Had he driven 60mph instead of 70mph, he not only would've made up some, if not all, of the cost in fueling, he still would've been back on the road sooner.

Gonna need a shit load of chargers if where going to go electric vehicles.

Exactly, but notice they won't talk LONG DISTANCE!

You can charge while you pee/eat and you will get super fast charging so even if you are stopping for 15min on average, you will gain enough juice to make it to your next pee/eat stop.

@@Lovin_NY93 Who stops every 50 miles to pee??

@@wadeburris366 I'm talking about regular road trips with a regular ev

@@Lovin_NY93 Thats fine but I still see it as having to make at least one extra stop on a normal trip than most people take

Pulling my 30' TT 80 miles and stopping for an hour to recharge doesn't sound like a lot of fun. With my Chevy 1/2 ton range is 200 plus and takes 5 minutes to fill up. And never have to worry about "can I get to the pump". So no thanks to EV for me.

Apparently you you didn't listen to his several comments about how much better the rivian drove. One needs to think about all aspects. Have a nice day.

Yea….. not trading my 7.3 for this electric Tacoma. I would never get work done if I had this thing. All the time would be spent charging. These trucks will always be for people who don’t actually NEED a truck.

@@russhills2773 it dove better because it weights hundreds of pounds more then the F150, and it has 4 corner air ride. A good weight distribution hitch will take the bounce out of the Ford. Not that it matters tho, ICE for the win.

@@davidroman1654 In 10 years from now, you'll have a different opinion. Charge time down, range up, charger infrastructure no longer an issue.

Agree Cost of Labor is a real cost and needs to be included in the cost comparison (other cost elements need to be included as well to truly compare cost).

300 miles would be 2 charges. You start with a full charge every morning at home. It would be 3 for the return trip... unless you have overnight charging at the far end .. but assuming you return immediately 5 charges total. Also filling up a truck isn't time free.

@@macmcleod1188 Filling up with gas take less than 10 min. So 5 times 10 is 50 min vs 4 to 5 hours

Great point. Something none of the reviewers think about when making reviews. Time = money.

Don't forget that gas vehicles need oil changes and there are maintenance issues like hoses and brakes that electric didn't have to deal with.

who has a week to drive across Texas at 65mph, with 2 hour recharges..

Going 65mph instead of 70 might actually shorten the overall trip time because the higher efficiency means less time charging

They are already installing fuel operated heaters in EV's over here to combat that problem. It actually makes sense as now you are using the fuel for heating only when needed and at very high heating efficiency, unlike when burning it through the engine for heat (in which case at least 50% is lost, due to the engine being outside, exhaust, no insulation, etc.).

You'd freeze to death.

You know how that would end. This looks like another case of the "suits" making very poor decisions.Can you say New Coke?

I would like to see it at night and cold and hot weather

Yeah...everything is calculated on totally ideal situations ...which we seldom ever have.

Lets do all we can to make that so, for you and the rest of U.S. Seems that soon the PTB may give us no choice as to using fossil fuels and attempt to transition our nation with virtually NO real forethought. More than 1/2 of Americans cant afford food nor housing and they expect us to purchase these inefficient tinker toys!? A change so radical will cause the ruin of many. Seems that is what they want.....

Another thing, in a pinch you can throw a few 5 gallon cans of fuel in the back to get you thru the trip. Can't do that with an EV unless you want to lug a generator with you... which will take fuel, so kind of defeats the purpose.

Four dealer says you’re not supposed to run premium in those turbo motors

I don't think recreational towing will ever be an eTruck's strength (recreational == towing campers/boats/off road stuff to the great outdoors); however it seems like this would work for the construction trades; add high-amp vehicle to load (I don't know much about the Rivian) and it could potentially eliminate the need for gas powered on-site generators too.

This Ev craze is great for anyone going to the mall, or the grocery store. Not really good for anything that involves a real truck, to do real truck things.

And this is why you get a cybertruck. better weight saving design. better batteries.. better towing. plus you arent waiting 4 hours to charge/.

Exactly. I want to be able to tow a trailer around 350 miles per day. With my current tow vehicle, I have to stop once for gas to do that. Maybe 10 minutes. How long would I spend charging an electric truck to go that far (assuming I could even find a charging station in middle-of-nowhere New Mexico or Arizona)?

@@BarryObaminable looks like crap, from a company not known for quality. No thanks.

It was well under that before Brandon took over.

They also used the econo hybrid (fine for the soccer dad, with a weekend honey do list) not a 5.x liter diesel, which as others point out is the waaaaaay better option for long non semi tows assuming you are towing with any regularity(boats, horses, campers, etc), the diesel should win with somewhere around 25-30mpg no trailer and 20 with

Maybe not yet, but we’ll get there

Why would I want to imagine that? I use my truck around town, home depot, ganahl, etc. I rarely put more than 100 miles on it a day. Plug it in when I get home and I'm basically spending like 45 seconds on "filling" it over a month. If I need to go longer, I use a different vehicle.

Except the Cyber truck.

@@grakkerful So you just buy a truck for status not the real reason a truck was built? Please do not try to defend yourself on this because you literally just said that without actually saying it. So with that said your comment was pointless to say the least and proves how little you actually need a truck because if you need a truck so little at this point of only needing to charge it for 45 seconds a month then you don't actually need a truck. Where as the person that made this original comment is more than likely trying to point out a situation you do need a truck for. EV trucks are nothing more than a "Status Symbol" stating..."Hey look at me I bought something that costs $80,000. I am better than you." but completely ignore the fact that you bought a truck that has no point on this planet other than to be much more damaging to the environment and it will cost you more money to maintain it in the long run than the gas powered truck. If you don't believe me crack open a science book once in your life and actually read it, don't just nitpick hypotheticals that "proves" you right, read the full data and real world testing. Now with that said next time....think before you open your mouth it might save you some time and embarrassment from rebuttals like mine. But alas you are going to ignore what I said, make some really dumb statements, insult me as a person, and then block me instead of getting a proper education on something before opening ones mouth.

@@ricosuava21 Lighten up, Francis. I said I'd spend 45 seconds of MY time. Come home, plug in. I use my truck to move materials around my town and a couple other close ones. I don't know what weird incel gatekeeping you feel you're doing, but it's both low effort and high ignorance.

If you factor your hourly rate as an IT consultant, it makes no sense that you tow whatever it is at all. Any transportation company can move what you need much cheaper than you . 🤪

The vast vast majority of EV's charge at home so add the many many gas stations visits and oil changes that don't happen in an EV. Add solar and gets even cheaper. I can't even imagine buying a new gas car today unless the use case was frequent towing or long roadtrips past 400-500 miles.

@@e-redjmy time is worth the same towing or not towing, but I doubt I'll find a transportation company to tow an overland/off road RV.- off the grid from let's say Phoenix to Yuma which we do each year.

@@ezmn9663 exactly let's take your ending, road trips from ME to AK, NY to AZ on a whim I would still need to pull out my Ram that I have an extended range LRAM tank for and 20 additional gallons in reserve giving me a range of over 700 miles when towing at 8 to 9 MPG. Right now it just doesn't make any sense for my main use case - overlanding.

Let me add, I was one of the first to call Rivian where I had asked about extended off the grid road trips if I could set up a charging station off the RV using a LifePO4 setup with Solar over an extended period of time. Like setting up Camp in Moab for a week. The key here is with pups traveling and towing the limited range just doesn't work. .

thats the thing you dont count the amount of money you use buying lunch only the amount it take to charge the ev._.

pretty sure people eat lunch regardless of whether or not they drive an EV lol

Of course there is WAY more maintenance costs with gas/diesel. Oil changes, spark plugs, fuel injectors, tranny fluid, front and rear diff fluid, tranny fluid etc.

@@sitkarules1 so in 100k miles my diesel needs 10 oil changes, 0 spark plugs, 1 transmission and diff oil change… using an EV like I use my diesel would put you at End of Life of the EV batteries with an average replacement cost of $15k, which is much more than my maintenance costs, not to mention the DAYS worth of waiting for charging to go any significant distance, but go on…

@@shamarerskine3987 It's not about the food. Read on. Lets take a trip of 500 mile with stops at 100 mile for fill up or top off. Total of 4 stops even thought the F150 want need 4 stops. There will be less cost with the gas truck. Assuming 45 minute charging time compared to 10 minute fill up. The Rivian would take 10:08 hours at to arrive and the F150 would arrive in 9:45 driving at 55mph making the drive safer and more fuel efficient. Time not charging is an advantage to the F150. And if the Rivian has to disconnect the trailer to charge up??? For local trips, I'd pick the Rivian. For long hauls, I'm going Gasser or diesel.

Change takes time. There will eventually be gas station style convenience store/charge stations, charge stations scattered everywhere like ATM machines. You guys act like you have no clue how the world works.

@@chadcoady9025 I'm talking about right now. They have a loooong way to go. Why not build some protection from the elements as the charging stations are constructed?

@@charlesjones2563 the first charging stations take put out for the early adopters allowed then free unlimited charging, so they made them as cheap as possible. Stepping outside to plug them in doesn’t take long and it’ll probably be up to the facility to put them under a canopy. I don’t think anyone wants to spend too much money yet, especially since the federal government through tax payers, is investing billions into charging stations. The plan in some areas is to have charging stations on the side of streets in configurations like parking meters. Parking meters are out in the elements because there are so many of them. They’ll be a mix of plane bars bones charging stations and charging stations at rest stops with restraints that’ll be covered. The next 5-10 years, they’ll be popping up everywhere.

To be honest they made a meal of charging with a trailer attached. Many ICE car drivers with trailers detach their trailer at places where there just isn't practical amounts of room. They could have detached the trailer and parked it separately making it easier for everyone. They were just being lazy. The joke is that some people are predictably posting here about how long it takes to charge the Rivian. But, if you're stopping for an hour or more to charge the Rivian then what's point of saving a few minutes by not un-hitching the trailer? It's straight up bullshit! Un-hitch the trailer, charge as normal, re-hitch and fuck off. Is that too hard? Does it make your soft hands bleed to do some manual labour? 🤣

@@chadcoady9025 it's not happening buddy. The world isn't buying these fat RC cars because the whole dozen of you nuts keep telling everyone to get them

Exactly. I feel like these videos are so biased. Show EVERYTHING, not cherry picking

It is shown: 59 minutes, on screen in the video during the statistics discussion. Should have been verbally talked about, but was not left out entirely.

How many employers want to pay an employee to sit and do nothing. Time is a major cost for analyzing this test.

Such a BS demo no real comparison!!!

That last line is absolute fact!

EVs have a lot more power. The Tesla semi can go 65MPH vs 45 MPH up a grade with a load than a typical diesel semi. It has a 500 mile range, loaded. This is also a significant time savings over a diesel in hilly or mountainous terrain. Much of the charging can be done during sleep, or breaks.

@@xeridea Much of that is negligible at this exact point in time though...meaning EV semis still have to improve to match many of the characteristics of diesels.

They just like to spend the extra money.

@@stevemurphy1051 Anymore I'm much more cynical. I think it was to insure the electric truck was cheaper even if it was only by a little. Running regular gas would have made the gasoline truck less. That wouldn't have fit the narrative.

@@johnkendall6962 They calculated what it would be for regular so that makes no sense.

@@Cosmic_Railgun That's not what I heard. I heard him say IF they had used regular it would have been less not that he calculated it to the same as if they had. Even then it still is an apple to oranges comparison. People have a misguided idea of what the difference between regular and high test is. The difference is only the fuels ability to resist knock. There is actually more BTUs in a gallon of regular fuel. Unless an engine is designed for premium a truck will also get better fuel mileage on regular. With todays prices it doesn't take much fuel to make up 4 dollars.

Also, Keep in mind that not all roads are flat. tow with an EV in moderate hilly areas and you'll soon discover the reality of towing with an EV, its not as good as you would like both in cost and distance.

Nothing like real world experience to help shed light. Well done.

You nailed it.

They last far, far longer than the average gas powered engine. We don't really know how long yet because none of them have really died yet. My colleague's model S has 400k miles on it. No maintenance, just tires. The whole "batteries are expensive to replace" thing is pure propaganda. So are engines and you know damn well that 90% of them aren't going to make it 200k city miles with out serious ongoing mechanical work

@@shane864 I wouldn't say the prices are pure propaganda. A simple google search shows the cost of a Model S battery to be between 12k and 15k, plus labor and accessories like connectors. I'm sure some have died, why else would there be any batteries for sale? Most of the info we have so far is anecdotal, like your friends 400k miles. To be fair, penning down anything substantive in regards to longevity is near impossible because so much of it has to do with how its used. My Tahoe got to 260k running backroads, which have never ben accused of being friendly to vehicles. I also got 2 trucks to 225k and 250k in the oil field with only tires and oil changes every 10 to 12 thousand miles. Again, not an environment know to be that friendly to vehicles. You could say Chevys are just that great, but some people I worked with couldn't get one to 50k without having to send it to the shop. It comes down to the user to get the max life out of anything. On your Colleagues Model S I'm curious to know how old the battery is, how many charge cycles, how many deep discharges, and how long can it go on a single charge now? How much charging happened on rapid chargers vs at home charging? Getting it to 400k is impressive, but I'm more interested in how it performs now, namely in regards to the range and charging.

@@MrJimme2003 The answer to your question is that first gen tech EVs are regularly hitting these numbers with like 10-20% loss of range. She comutes Palm Springs to Santa Ana in socal traffic every day because she's a goddamn nutbar but the car seels 50/50 brutal traffic and highway cruising. The parking lot at myt work is half EVs. The batteries dying is not a thing anywhere remotely near as much as headgaskets/timing belts/alternators/rings/injectors etc etc etc going bad. Battery scare mongering is propaganda. Purely. It's like saying imagine you buy a new car and every 8 years you have to buy a brand new engine and transmission. That's stupid. I've been building cars my whole life and I love it. I still ride gas bikes. But the idea of a gas car for me now is like Zack Morris's beige cell phone. It's stupid. For every reason, not just (insert whatever political issue hurts your feelings) EVs are just far better cars and have been for about 5 years for the average commuter/dd use, and they just keep getting better. My Kona was 40k which is less than I paid for my last Honda, is free to run, and has basically no moving parts to break ever. Literally my gas savings pay the car payment. Why in the fuck would I have some emotional attachment to boring commuter car gas engines? lol no. And I'm obsessed with turbo 4 cyl cars. I've built and dd'd Megasquirted insane turbo shitboxes. Yeah that's fun, but it's dead tech.

@@shane864 I'm not clamming anything about EV's longevity, I'm asking what it is. What is best is very situationally specific. If you live in a city and mostly just drive a regular short commute then electric is defiantly a good option to consider. Or if there are plenty of charge points around you. Not everywhere is Southern California. The closet charger to me is just over an hour away. You say that for every reason EVs are just better. There is still no EV on the market that can meet my needs, much less one with a proven track record. Some come close range wise, but they are well over 100k and they do not have the capacity I need. I need to be able to go 600+ miles in a day with a couple thousand pounds of gear. Some times I need to pull a trailer with 3 or 4 thousand pounds. Ignoring the charging time, there is still the issue of charging locations. And I'm a light user in my area. People around me will regularly haul 10, 20, 30 thousand pounds or more hundreds of miles and there is not an EV yet that can do that. You act like I have EVs. I pay 4 cents a KW. I love the Idea of EVs, but they need to be able to do what I need them to do. You say that "Battery scare mongering is propaganda". I have a pile of laptops, Cell phones, and premium tool batteries, all lithium ion, that say there is a definite shelf life. If they lasted forever like you seem to claim, there would not be a market for replacement batteries for these vehicles. Clearly there is an issue with battery life, the question is how bad is it. You also seem to think gas cars have way more problems then they really do. The only people blowing out headgaskets or messing up the rings are people screwing around with them. I'm sure if I over clocked a Tesla or tried to charge it with 1000amps it would have issues as well. The rest of the things you mention are fairly cheap. I mean you'd have to go through a lot of $100 alternators to get to $22,500 which is the most common quote for a Tesla battery replacement. Fun fact, I could replace everything in my engine bay and the power train for about half that. And before you just assume I'm anti EV just remember, maybe there's a reason I was watching a video about their towing capacity. But hey, if there's an EV out there you think will meet my needs I fully encourage you to buy it and I will happily test it out and let you know.

The road tax issue is good point. States are going to have to raise other taxes to pay for roads, to offset less money from gas taxes.

Probably took two charging sessions because they needed to stop charging, move the truck/trailer, detach, and then start charging again.

If you look at the graphs he presented, 59 minutes. 47 the first time and 12 at the higher kWh rate. An hour, basically, to get an 85% charge. In no way practical.

@@phyre1238 Yes, just like he explained in the video. Kent, didn't you watch the results section?

that's an hour and a half.

@@robinflint4850 notice how the f150 was the truck that returned the trailer. The rivians are rich men's toys to use in urban centres. $80000 to charge every 60 miles, what a joke.

The battery is evolving. No worries, your concerns will eventually be no more. But the electric motor is about 5 times more energy efficient, and it's disappointing that this test didn't address that.

You're describing a locomotive. Age old tech that works very well. I don't understand this 100% electric BS. It's very disturbing how everyone is running blindly at these dumb things.

@@kevinrcoffman You've got it Kevin, a locomotive is exactly the model for what I'm describing. Electric motors as a way to propel a vehicle are just, in nearly every respect, better than a directly coupled transmission. And they also can be easily powered by multiple sources (batteries/regen braking/generator/etc). So, let's take the tech we have today, good motors, decent batteries and good diesel engines; couple them together, and get a vehicle that has most of the EV advantages without the two huge EV downsides (range and refueling time). If I could get a diesel/electric hybrid F450, I'd buy one tomorrow. If it had a 50-100KW pack in it, I'd save a lot of fuel not using the diesel for most of my trips around town. And when I'm towing or going further, the 3L diesel (vs the monster 6.7 that's in my truck today) could kick on and keep the batteries topped up. No noisy exhaust brake turning energy into sound, charge those batteries up when we're coming down the mountain with 20K lbs behind us.

They probably realized that when they saw the mileage calculation and decided to forego the additional 200 or so pounds to increase their chances of not dying on the highway.

Electric torque power delivery makes the addition of ONE passenger completely irrelevant. Did you not see the bit where they said they couldn't feel the towed weight AT ALL in the Rivian. But you think they'd feel ONE PERSON?

@@trevorberridge6079 the test was not about towing capacity, it was about mileage and the cost to tow the same weight. Yes electric motors have more torque but torque doesn’t equate to mileage efficiency. The addition of any weight TO ANY VEHICLE will effect it’s mileage efficiency.

@@RAM-vq7kp And towing will drain the range of ANY vehicle. Not an EV problem. A physics problem.

Actually weight is not very important, aerodynamics is much much more important.