EV Towing Race Across The Rockies! F-150 Lightning vs Rivian R1T With Identical Trailers 

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You should be aware that AG in Germany has already been in a controversial discussion because of potentially illegal claims in advertising and for containing an ingredient in large quantities that is linked to spontaneous unwanted abortions…

Amazing how much thinking these _neeerds_ put indo range calculation and not into load securing! And I don't even tow! JK guys, I love your videos and you're doing a great service for a new industry. -Not kidding on better towing habits, tho.-

I've never strapped anything but the physics of that strap job and the defeat in in trying to fix the position were pretty disappointing. 3 dudes and some whit should get that tote right back in place, and strapped up correctly. In my country we don't have mountains but tow maximum speed is 80 kph, under 50 mph. And they'll hauling ass in rain over mountains...

@Cloxxki Considering how they drove it in in the dark, raining, with high wind conditions, yet never mentioned any towing instability, even with the load shifted so far back on the trailer, gives me reason to believe modern stability control is getting really good at mitigating dumb mistakes like that. Well, that or they got super, *_super_* lucky.

@@h8GW stability control won’t probably have done much. Only thing that helped them out in this situation is the sheer weight of the Rivian.

And that load was awfully close to getting far enough back to throw these trucks around…

A level 2 charger inputs 7500W do you have that much reserve in your solar panels?

I had my first non-Tesla EV roadtrip experience recently in Europe doing 3000 km with a Jaguar I-Pace. Car was OK, though, definitely not as good as a Tesla. Charging was miserable. Finally, just went with Ionity chargers as they where the most reliable, but still not even close to Tesla. It was a great learning experience. I'll stick with Tesla and wait for my Cybertruck.

That’s your future. WIt till there’s a line of BEV at the chargers and Suzy Q is taking an hour to charge her Mini Cooper electric. We’re all screwed when that happens.

@@rogerheuckeroth7456 In Norway and Germany charger is not a reason not to buy non Tesla any more. There are more CCS than Supercharger here

@@jonpetter8921 Yes, I am aware, but when you figure in the CCS chargers that are not working (I encountered a lot of them in Germany) and the fact that many of them are very expensive without a membership, etc. the picture is not quite that rosy. Tesla just makes it so simple and they quickly fix any problems. Not to mention that as there are many more in each location...

@@rogerheuckeroth7456 you should have watched Bjorn Nyland he knows all about europe charging

@Yes Sir hot, hot discussions. XXX kw action

@Yes Sir Why not conversations?

Well if you kum and go too often you're bound to get a few issues every 9 months or so. 😆 🤣 😉

Huh huhh huhh, you said "kum".

Some outlets also know how to secure a trailer load too.

Some outlets know how to properly secure trailer loads. These fools are careless, stupid and dangerous.

@@Adam_Rosenberg91 Agreed! TFL emphasizes safety..

Go to sleep!!! -And do what I say, not what I do!-

The lariat was already tested. It went 86 miles with a 6000lb trailer from a full charge.

@@AmericanBusinessman422 not exactly the same test as this one but yeah you are right it went 86 miles in the toughest conditions it could be tested in.

@@AmericanBusinessman422 It wasn't the weight, it was the wind resistance and they bailed at 86 miles. They stated their range would have been (a dismal) 100 miles if they kept going.

I think he knows that. It shifted. He should’ve loosened the rear straps, moved and hit the brakes slightly to shift it forward over double wheels on Uhaul for best load distribution.

@@alexnutcasio936 I would have used the ratchet straps as a come-along to pull the tote forward and then re-strapped. Been there, done that.

This is why electric can get you in trouble, these people think wow look at the power and what they are doing is shifting loads to the rear creating dangerous towing conditions. Face it electric trucks have piss poor torque management, you don't want all the torque coming on that fast in every day driving. I will stick with gas and diesel power trucks, these electric trucks all you seem to do is have range anxiety and drive from charging station to charging station.

@@mustangecoboosthpp3869 True, diesel trucks are the standard that EVs are up against. They are hard to beat. That being said, my diesel trucks mileage goes from 26 to 11 MPG when towing my boat down the highway at 70-75 MPH. That is comparable to the loss in range that I have seen in these EV tests. Unloaded, I have over 600 mile range in my truck, so it goes down to about 220 miles when towing the boat. The key is that I can refuel the truck and go to the bathroom and grab a drink in about 15 minutes. To me that is what I would need to see in an EV truck to truly be at parity. Would need to charge to 80% in 15 minutes and that 80% should be about 200+ miles of real world towing range. Both the truck and the chargers don't exist yet. If I had to guess, I would estimate that the truck would need a 300 kWh battery and the charger would need to be a 1000 kW charger.

@@rogerheuckeroth7456 you could do that too, but no one said he’s the sharpest tool in the shed.

Yeah that’s why I decided not to get a truck EV. Great truck for staying on the island; potential frustrating if on a long trip. Where on the island were you? My other concern was getting to places like Carmana or Mt Cain and being low on battery.

@@gregoryf9299 Telegraph Cove. North end. I doubt there is a charger past Campbell River.

Next set of infrastructure money going to charger networks specifies a high 90’s percent reliability rating. Apparently the Tesla Supercharger network is the only one that meets that spec at the moment. I look forward to charging my Kia EV6 on the CCS1 Supercharger network once that gets deployed (likely an extra cable on each V3 Supercharger as we see deployed in Europe).

@@skyemalcolmGood, that should have been the requirement for the first round. We also must have mandatory universal connections. Just imagine brand specific fuel dispensers. Smh

@@bonustimeslots so the first round was simply VW being punished for experimentation on humans and cheating on diesel emissions. It might have been hard to forsee those requirements back in 2015 or whenever the EA punishment was written. At that time the Supercharger network was much slower and perhaps less reliable than now. But hey live and learn, everything improves. The real hero is Tesla obviously. But strangely the other automakers in Europe banded together to create Ionity and it wasn’t part of dieselgate apparently. Ford is a part of it among others. Perhaps you can blame a greater collegiality in Europe amongst companies? Perhaps you can blame a lot of uncertainty regarding EV policy in the US? But seems like things will improve at a rapid rate. I personally have used CCS chargers a lot to put 8k miles on my EV6 in the last 3 month. It’s closer to an adventure than I’d prefer but I can say I’ve never been stuck dead in the water not charging at any EA, EVgo, ChargePoint or Shell Recharge station in that time. I did have to download all those apps and learn each of their quirks. And I hope to download and load money into the Tesla app soon once that network adds CCS cables to locations that I need on future trips. Everyone needs to also remind themselves that 99% of charging takes place at home or the office so most of us won’t interact with DCFC very often. I love pulling into my garage at home and plugging into my electron station. It’s so easy and one reason people love EVs once they buy one and start charging from home.

@@bonustimeslots there’s never going to be a mandatory universal connector. Nissan, Kia and Mitsubishi voluntarily ditched the Japanese CheDeMo standard for CCS1 in the US. There’s a 0% chance any automakers switch to the Tesla connector. Maybe Aptera but let’s ignore their weird post on LinkedIn last week. I’d say there is a very small but non zero chance Tesla ditches their plug in favor of CCS1 on Cybertruck. But if they don’t it’s their fault for continuing dead end. Tesla makes zero cars in Europe now except those that have CCS2, the European standard. And in China there’s yet another universal standard charger for that country all cars adhere to from what I understand. Just giving the worldwide context assuming you meant one ring to rule them all worldwide (but you likely were just taking the states here, is that right?)

@@skyemalcolm yes, states. It's a must for electric to truly work. The government just needs to mandate it. It's essentially a fuel. Again, imagine the gas stations not having universal pumps, non-standard house voltages different size credit card machines etc. It's not rocket science for this to be a necessary standard in the US. Not arguing with you, but just stating simple facts for something to be universally acceptable.

Absolutely. Pretty sure he doesn't have much experience with ratchet straps or securing loads. A good learning experience.

Just stab the brakes! 😬

@@xrotaryguy That can work, or can go wrong badly. The racket strap as a winch would have been safest. Plus you have to sit around waiting to charge anyway. Might as well fix the load...

Wait till your battery degrades from all that fast charging. Then what?

@@alexnutcasio936 what are you doing on here? Just to spew incorrect info. Kyle has driven 100,000 miles. And Eric way has a bolt with 150,000 with almost zero degradation. They have liquid cooled batteries it isn’t a 24 kw leaf .

@@markfitzpatrick6692 zero degradation. As the owner of and former owner of 4, I can tell you the batteries degrade. All batteries degrade.

@@alexnutcasio936 slow charging to 100% and having it sit there will degrade it harder than frequent road trips on hyperchargers to 60-80% for max average speed.

@@Cloxxki doesn’t matter, few go to 100% anyway because it takes too long to get there. Battery degradation is a fact.

I would rather buy the F150 lightening than the Model Y, The F150 is lot comfortable unlike the bumpy/rough Model Y.

@@cessealbeach The F150 is really not comparable to the Model Y. Its a big ass truck! A Monster! I could not even charge it at home because it has the charging plug on the wrong side. But i must admit i've ordered a cybertruck. I do not think i get one in Europe. But i hope. It would replace my Model Y but not because of my tushy. That one is padded good enough for the "rough" Model Y. I like my Model Y but i don't have enough space for both under my carport. I recommend you eat some more unhealthy american Burgers. I've heard they go directly into your backside and create a good solid isolation against "rough" Model Y's.

Ford did crazy amounts of real world analysis of F150 owners before making this truck. Fact is most F150 owners either never tow or rarely tow trailers. The F150 is for hauling the kids to school and the occasional stop at Home Depot and filling the bed up. This thing will sell like hot cakes to the F150 drivers of the United States.

It can't do long distance towing well, but it can tow work equipment or material to the worksite or the boat to the lake. These are probably far more common uses.

Well im trying to think about it with a rational brain.. 90% of the time i dont tow SO the couple times a year when i do i have to charge up an annoying amount of times? For the savings.. Im down honestly.. If i towed even once a month MAYBE it would be annoying enough for the life of ownership to be upset.. But i (and most truck daily owners) dont.

Companies need to come out with travel trailers that have motors and batteries on board. Even if its only giving a couple hundred lbs of torque it would help. Then going down hills it could regen so they could maximize how much power the truck can regen. The trailer can power itself while you are camping. Then at home you could have it plugged in and if there is a power outage let it act as battery backup for the house.

And using all four motors. For the Rivian to get better efficiency it drops to FWD and lower the suspension all the way. Which doesn't happen in tow mode.

Tow mode

There is a lot of greenwashing and slow walking going on.

Still waiting for the Tesla towing challenge. So.......

And driver average speeds and consumption, time spent charging.

I think I missed something but why did he say the "Model Y could not do that trip" ? Has he done the same trip while towing with a Y?

@@jol6633 The Y only has I think a 82 kWh battery with only 75 kWh usable. He’s saying that the truck used 80+ kWh on that one leg of the trip so the Model Y with its smaller battery couldn’t do it. What isn’t being calculated is efficiency. The Model Y is rated for 300 miles with only 75 kWh, while the truck has the same rating but with almost twice the battery capacity. In my own experience. Towing a 1,500 lb flat trailer (very little wind resistance) I averaged about 380 wH/mile which doing some quick math is about 196 miles on a full charge. And in the quick 50 mile trip I took, my range did reflect that estimate. If I had continued, I would have likely gotten 180 - 190 miles out of that charge. Bearded Tesla Guy (RU-vidr) essentially got 100 miles even towing a 3,500lb camper with massive wind resistance. Apples to oranges, but I think the Model Y would do much better that they’re giving it credit for lol

They are towing 5000 lbs more than double what you can tow and much bigger vehicles to boot . Your model Y is not even in the same league for hauling and towing as these trucks. Both trucks can put in the bed what you can tow.

@@kenwolf2431 Yes I know. My comparison is apples to cheeseburger. I was just saying though lol.

Talk about apples to hand grenades smh

These are literally the first ev trucks on the market. There were fools in the 20s who still thought horse and carriage was superior and the automobile was a trend. You will be driving one too in time. Think beyond your own line of sight.

@@PumpUptheJam81 Electric vehicles have been around since the beginning of the automobile and at one point outnumbered combustion engine vehicles. Electric just can't compete with combustion engines over all so maybe it is you who needs to think beyond your own line of sight.

On more rolling terrain a hybrid vehicle would be interesting, gas mileage might get really good, using the tiny battery a few full cycles between gas fill-ups.

vs the constantly stopping and filling with gas? lets be real here towing is a chore on any platform, it's the unreliability of the charging infrastructure that makes it seem more stressful. that's a curve that can invert at some point in the future. I'd like to see this when the Max Pack (if? lol) comes out from Rivian, where you have the bigger battery to go further. Also got the supposed 400 mile Silverado next year, if you 'halve' the range to get a rough towing range 200 miles is a lot more acceptable, but if charging doesn't get fixed, it's just more time sitting there.

@@CrankyOldNerd In the US, you guys just go way faster than the rest of the world. 70 mph is unheard of anywhere but maybe Australia. In Germany it's just under 50 mph. With unlimited speed for non towing vehicles, on some stretches. Reducing from 70 to 50, you half your consumption pretty much. Stints get about 3x as LONG. You're going to want to get off the seat for a while take a comfort brake, shuffle supplies in the frunks, etc.

@@CrankyOldNerd never mind reliability and range, what stands out as an often overlooked issue is the in-ability to charge in a pull-through manner with most of the existing and proposed charging sites like you would in a gas-station . Often you will either have to unhook or take up half the chargers in an area (which isn't going to go down smoothly at a high traffic charging location).

@@PGVladimirovich the way they're set up is a bit of a PITA in most spots because they need to be backed into by some cars and not others. or they look pull through but they put a bollard in-between them. it's nuts in general.

I want to road trip Canada in my EV but the network is a step or two behind where it is here in the land of your friends to the south. Hopefully this is changing as it is here? Probably the availability of 150/350 kW units is bad all over the world since everyone is trying to build up this infrastructure these days.

@@skyemalcolm ea is planning on building in canada might take 5 years tho

With a Model you could still carry fuel in a container. The electrics of the long gone era were no starters on any kind of trip.

I'd've tried a hard braking, if that didn't work the strap as a come along would have been a sure thing.

So many ways to use leverage, a steep slope and all kinds of tricks to put that tote in place and THEN place straps in a more responsible manner... Just 3 dudes worth of muscle, on level ground (heck it's the Rockies for crying out loud) should have gotten that fixed in minutes.

Is that the one Nicki reported having issues with? At the moment the app says 1/4 available with a 350 supposedly up. Supposedly.

Yeah a plug in hybrid would have been a better choice than full EV for a truck with current battery tech

Did you not watch the video?

@@brandenflasch Of course I watched the video. The entire thing. What is your point?

@@philhyde983 he very clearly talks about out of order stations

@@brandenflasch Of course he talks about them but I don't see him reporting them to EA. People need to be in the habit of doing this.

@@philhyde983 EA watches his videos

Why? They can't even hold the speed limit. These trailers are tiny with no wind resistance. If you tow the rated load [10K] they are completely worthless. I have a 21 yr ol F150 with a 2V 5.4 Triton 230 hp that will run away and hide from these pretenders. NADA price is $4700 retail.

Bjørn Nyland has documented charging in Norway and road tripping in Europe for almost ten years now. He narrates all his videos in English and I personally find him highly entertaining. Watch him and make up your own mind. He gave up trailering with an EV after he sold his Model X 4-5 years ago. But I thinks that’s because he likes to drive fast and just review cars and charging speeds not so much the trailer aspects anymore.

That’s just led flicker from the camera

In the Tesla world it’s a non issue. You quickly lose all interest in gas engines once you “get it”. I do agree with you on interest in these trucks with the current charging situation. Pretty terrible.

@@PumpUptheJam81 you sure about that? How about heater failures? Tesla is great about range reduction and freezing occupants in the winter.

@@PumpUptheJam81 I guess you have never seen the videos with backlogs at Tesla charging stations where people are waiting hours to get a charge. Pretty terrible.

@@mustangecoboosthpp3869 Maybe Vegas or so cal? I still wouldn’t go back to ICE cars for anything. Charging a car isn’t for everyone but it’s going to be the way moving forward. It will take time for charging infrastructure to grow but once it does there isn’t much that’s going to stop demand for the cars.

@@JAMESWUERTELE lol, what?

Spot on. There’s no beating an ICE vehicle filling up from a 19 megawatt gasoline pump.

Yep, they scammed us again and everyone’s jumping on board thinking they’re saving the planet and they’re only making it worse.

Isn't that the american way? With no trailer lights of course..

@@AmericanBusinessman422 Yes, apparently it is. Sadly.

Trailer is rated for more than 55, that's just slimy weasel lawyer garbage

EV truck owners are eco-weenie girlie men. They're not cars or truck guys. They are too busy choosing their pronouns to worry about killing fellow motorists on the road.

Good point, I completely forgot the Rivian was a quad motor setup. Would be interesting to do this when the dual motor Rivian comes out

Not sure. The 2-motor AWD setup would need some diff action. Potentially even a gear reduction, or two per axle.

The Rivian can disable the rear motors and run as a fwd in efficiency mode, the lighting can’t.

that's already happened. people cutting in line after others have already been waiting 2 hours for a charging spot.

@@juggernaut316 sounds like fun.

Does the F150 use that much less juice, to overcome its slower peak charge speed?

They probably can’t get parts . Have you heard of a chip shortage? People blindly blame Ea without knowing any facts. If no ea no road-trip across the country with a rivian or listening . Or any non Tesla who doesn’t have a truck to pull anything yet.

@@markfitzpatrick6692 I'm aware of the supply chain meltdown and not "Blindly blaming EA". I personally have more than 60 charging sessions on EA having relied upon them for a Detroit to Seattle move in my BEV i3. I champion them at every opportunity. The fact remains, that they need to figure out a solution. As the largest non-Tesla network of fast chargers, they have leverage with the manufacturers that others simply do not.

F 150 all the way

The lightning will actually do 171 kw on 350 EA chargers, at least for a few minutes

Ive seen 175 multiple times. We install DCFS, Solar and have multiple lightnings now

Yeah but they need to get better though. Tesla only makes 4 models 2 of which are out of reach for most people and the other 2 are pretty expensive for many as well. Me personally don't like the look of Teslas even if I had the money they don't make a car I find attractive and then these other brands have crappy charging networks. I'll stick to gasoline.

Stupid comment of the thread award goes to Martin F. No the oil companies do not own the chargers.

At no point would AC charging be faster. At higher states of charge AC charging will slow down. Just like DC charging.

@@HaakonOfTheShadows sounds logical thanks

The reason it slows down is all to do with how lithium Ion batteries work. When you're charging your phone, you'll notice the same slowdown occur at 90%. At the top of the charge, the batteries get really hot, so to avoid hurting the batteries, chargers derate the power draw to help keep the battery in safe operating range. Doing so of course, limits the speed of charging.

@@HaakonOfTheShadows AC charging never slows down re high SoC, no level2 has enough power to really hit a limit... unless maybe the battery is super hot/poor thermals? DCFC just throttles down to AC slow charging levels, so no benefit to switch to AC... and also w/ AC, now the DC inverter is also getting a workout, so less efficient both power and heat

@@cgamiga I’ve personally seen throttling at high state of charge on AC charger. 11kw 3phase AC charger and the EV only pulling 1-2 kw.

Obviously in that case you don’t activate the charge from the app since the swipe to charge would be greyed out. How do you activate it in that case, RFID with the EA virtual card in your phone wallet?

@@skyemalcolm NFC reader on the phone, credit card, or sometimes it's set for complementary sessions.

@@skyemalcolm In my experience you don't have to activate it at all. If the app says it's down it's either 1) actually down or 2) you can plug in and it just starts charging with no activation needed. And sometimes they inverse is true: sometimes the app says a station is available but it won't work when you try to activate it. Both of these conditions are pretty rare though: the app is sometimes wrong but most of the time it's pretty accurate.

@@JeremyAkersInAustin i’m curious what your experiences when it says the station is available but one of the plugs is unavailable? Honestly I hadn’t noticed that until just a week ago, and I couldn’t find anything on the website to explain which plug is which, but I guess it’s left and right as you’re looking at the station same as as indicated on the app.

@@skyemalcolm Yeah the app lists the plugs side by side, so the left plug is the left one on the station as you face it. Also when you arrive at the station the screen on the station will show you which cord/plug is available and which one is not with a similar left/right display. So I don't really pay attention to which plug/cable the app says is working because it's easier to just look at the station screen when you get there.

They will. The Cybertruck party for them is a couple years late.