Trigonelline: Increase NAD And Melatonin, Reduce Homocysteine? 

what's the problem with IgG? also isn't the beans-gas, bloating, abdominal pain supposed to go away with time of eating them?

@@ATT935 Sure, but every time I eat those beans, it's grossly uncomfortable for many hours afterwards. Fortunately, no issues with chickpeas

Bean gas is mostly fermentation I eat lots of beans get lots of gas doesn’t smell just a natural process of breaking down for many no bloating so I had to attribute your bloating into bad diet or eating something that your body is not handling very well look at your diet

i think there was a misunderstanding, i meant to say that those problems go away entirely after sometimes of eating those foods regularely at regular amounts... my understanding is that our microbiome actually adapt to them and doesn't cause any bloating etc... anymore so maybe you want to try do like 5 months on lentils and see how it goes or increase gradually or hard boiling them etc... think about it they are a superfood imo. @@conqueragingordietrying1797

It is important to listen to your body. :)

Yep, and thanks @wesselendtz6707!

Well, probably not because of the theory in this video. Coffee increased homocysteine concentrations in 24 of 26 individuals. Circulating concentrations of vitamin B-6, vitamin B-12, and folate were unaffected. The mean (±SD) plasma concentration of total homocysteine in fasting blood was 8.1 ± 1.8 μmol/L after abstention from coffee and 9.6 ± 2.9 μmol/L after 3-4 wk of coffee drinking, a difference of 1.5 μmol/L (95% CI: 0.9, 2.1 μmol/L) or 18% (P < 0.001). Rob Urgert, Trinette van Vliet, Peter L Zock, Martijn B Katan, Heavy coffee consumption and plasma homocysteine: a randomized controlled trial in healthy volunteers123,The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Volume 72, Issue 5, 2000, In this work we revealed that unfiltered coffee drinking was associated with increased homocysteine levels, a potential maker of cardiovascular disease. This effect was enhanced when heavycigarette smoking existed. However, the association between filtered coffee drinking and homocysteine levels wassignificant only when large quantities of coffee were consumed, which is in accordance with several other similar studies.26-28 Moreover, fruit consumption seems to moderatethe effect of coffee drinking on homocysteine levels. Panagiotakos DB, Pitsavos C, Zampelas A, Zeimbekis A, Chrysohoou C, Papademetriou L, Stefanadis C. The association between coffee consumption and plasma total homocysteine levels: the "ATTICA" study. Heart Vessels. 2004

Me too

Right! 😂

That's my plan also

so sprouts you think, then?

@@reforesters it increases methylfolate as well, although i don't see it as a big methyl donor, as far as i know, but it seems to be a part of the process. but i'd boil legumes anyway, as i don't know to what extent germination clears them.

I'm ok with chickpeas instead, but thanks. No GI issues with them

You're welcome! Chickpeas are great with stir-fry vegetables. @@conqueragingordietrying1797

​@@conqueragingordietrying1797Pressure Cooking destroys lectins.

Also polyamine production uses SAMe

@@AriCat777 Yeah, I pressure cook my lentils. Very easy operation (except for the garlic mincing). Apparently, Eden organic legumes are all pressure cooked. I have no problems with those. I can actually tell a difference between the digestibility of Eden versus other canned organic kidney beans. Eden beans are more thoroughly cooked. Not such a big difference with chick peas.

Thanks @TheJasonHowarth, and I appreciate your support! Unfortunately, decaf may have less trigonelline than regular: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36089402/ pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37742465/ Also, in unpublished hot-off-the-presses data, trigonelline does indeed increase NAD: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RJ5bSV8SsUE.html I've asked the lead scientist to present that data to the YT channel in January, hopefully that happens!

hmm yeah I feel like there's a whole avenue to open up around baked falafel...

They are no big deal. They are basically baked "meatballs" made from mashed chickpeas. The regular ones are fried in oil. @@DIYDSP

Trigonelline increases NAD: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RJ5bSV8SsUE.html Whether it will work in me, we'll see TMG isn't the only way to potentially impact homocysteine, and it didn't in my case, up to 3g/d But you're right about methyl donors, I've increased folate (with the hope of it being converted to methyl-folate), but also proline betaine, (oranges) too, for the next test. The key is finding the weak spot in terms of methylation, and in my case, only folate+methyl-B12 has made a dent, so far

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Fascinating. I was unaware of the NAPRT pathway for NAD+ synthesis. This could explain, in part and aside from the polyphenols, why drinking coffee appears to have multiple health benefits aside from the caffeine. It's loaded with trigonelline. The prevalence of trigonelline in lots of plants, especially coffee, might make testing it as a supplement somewhat complicated as you'd have to control for dietary trigonelline along with the supplementation. Look forward to your findings and seeing how your next experiments go as well!

4 eggs/week for the past test didn't make a dent on homocysteine.

​@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Interesting. I'm biased to say that perhaps 4 eggs per week is too little to make a significant change as this study "Choline supplemented as phosphatidylcholine decreases fasting and post methionine-loading plasma homocysteine concentrations in healthy men" pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16002808/ used upwards of 2.6g of phosphatidylcholine for two weeks and found a 18% reduction in homocysteine. 2.6 g choline/d would be around 17 eggs a day. A bit excessive, however at the very least it shows a signal that saturating that pathway can work to reduce homocysteine. I don't doubt you're getting choline from other sources, but looking at just eggs alone and regarding choline, 4 eggs are needed to hit the minimum choline RDA. So although it's surprising that a few eggs don't move the needle at all for you, you could maybe postulate that 4 eggs per week may not be enough to saturate the pathway sufficiently to get that reduction in homocysteine. Something to consider, but even I would be discouraged to see no changes despite including some in my diet. I eat an unconventional amount of eggs per day personally, and although I'm not as diligent as you with measuring blood as I'm 22 and broke, I do care to precisely measure what I'm intaking and noting down differences with any changes I make in my diet. I can n=1 attest to the fact that I'm a better version of myself when I'm including the embarrassing amount eggs in my diet juxtaposed to when I don't eat eggs at all. Although there are probably several dozen things contributing to the better sense of wellbeing with eggs, I'm sure that the reduction in homocysteine is playing a part in that. MTHFR 667 TT

The cherries on top would probably screw up some other biomarker

Potentially increasing NAD and melatonin while reducing homocysteine via an increased trigonelline intake is the focus of the video.

Hi Battery9876, I'm not sure-Bryan only posts 1 data point at a time, and while his current value 5.9uM is great, I don't know what his year-to-year average is, or how many tests/yr He does supplement with methyl-B12, so that could be involved. When considering that I've tried to reduce homocysteine from many angles (TMG, choline, serine+B6, methyl-folate+methyl-B12, now trigonelline, but also, I've recently increased proline betaine), I think it's important for each of us to find out where the weak link is in the methylation pathway, and directly target that. He may have gotten lucky with only methyl-B12...

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 According to his website it seems he takes 1000ug per week, I am not sure it would be enough to lower Hcy, all the more that absorption is very non linear. Perhaps. Personaly I've started taking berberine, I've seen studies showing it lowers Hcy. Point is, some supplements might be able to help and he takes so many so perhaps some of them have an effect for that. Apart from that, I wonder how come in young age we are able to have a high level of NAD without it affecting negatively Hcy. It's bizarre, something must be keeping Hcy in check.

I'll likely get this question a lot-please see the pinned comment!

Interesting, lots of trigonelline-have you measured plasma levels of that and/or NAD? Both might be high!

Hey @rhodon546, conversion of SAM to SAH (and vice versa) is reversible via glycine methyltransferase: www.genome.jp/entry/R00367 Whether that reaction is specific to methyl-glycine, and not methyl-nicotinate (trigonelline), I'm not sure... If it can be catalyzed by glycine methyltransferase, introduction of trigonelline should react with any available SAH, thereby methylating it, and reducing SAH while increasing SAM.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Thanks for the expanded detail. In the reading I've been doing on MTHFR, whenever the conversion from SAM to SAH is referenced it's generally considered to be a "reversible reaction that favors SAH synthesis," to be more specific. I just briefly looked up GNMT, and it looks to be mainly expressed in high amount in the liver, kidneys, and pancreas, which wouldn't really be directly useful to the conversion of sertonin to melatonin. In other words the directional arrow pointing to SAH is much greater than to SAM in this reaction in the rest of the body. It seems a lot of reactions in the biochemistry usually have much larger arrows in one direction than another. Maybe there might be something that happens with methyl-nicotinate. Either way, I'm excited to see the results, and good luck!

Hey @OneDougUnderPar, nope, no videos on hydration yet, but I'm chronically hyper-hydrated (for better or worse!) because of the high FV content of the diet. Podcast with Joe Cohen coming relatively soon, where we go over all things biohacking...

Good idea, Dao-I bough green coffee beans a long time ago based on a lef.org article, but they were inedible...

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 Model: GPT-4-1106-preview Prompt: Trigonelline food sources sorted from high to low. Response: Trigonelline is a plant alkaloid that is particularly abundant in coffee beans. It is also found in smaller amounts in a variety of other plant-based foods. Here is a list of food sources that contain trigonelline, sorted from high to low: 1. Coffee: Coffee beans are the richest source of trigonelline, with the content varying depending on the type of coffee and the roasting process. Lighter roasts tend to have higher levels of trigonelline than darker roasts. 2. Fenugreek seeds: Fenugreek (Trigonella foenum-graecum) is a plant that has seeds with a high trigonelline content. It is commonly used as a spice and a supplement. 3. Peas: Peas contain moderate amounts of trigonelline and can contribute to dietary intake. 4. Lentils: Lentils are another legume that contains trigonelline, although in smaller amounts compared to peas and fenugreek. 5. Chickpeas: Chickpeas, also known as garbanzo beans, have some trigonelline content. 6. Soybeans: Soybeans and soy products like tofu and tempeh contain trigonelline, but the levels can vary depending on processing methods. 7. Potatoes: Potatoes have a small amount of trigonelline, contributing to its presence in a typical diet. 8. Sunflower seeds: These seeds contain a low level of trigonelline. 9. Barley: Whole barley grains contain some trigonelline, which may be reduced during processing. 10. Oats: Oats, especially whole oats, have a small amount of trigonelline. 11. Rice: Brown rice contains trace amounts of trigonelline, which may be lost in the milling process that produces white rice. 12. Other vegetables and grains: Various other vegetables and whole grains may contain trace amounts of trigonelline. It's important to note that the actual trigonelline content in these foods can vary widely depending on factors such as the variety of the plant, growing conditions, processing, and preparation methods. Coffee remains the most significant dietary source for most people who consume it regularly.

Prompt: What type of coffee contains the most Trigonelline? Response: Trigonelline is a bitter alkaloid found in coffee beans that contributes to the aroma and flavor of coffee. It is also believed to have potential health benefits, such as neuroprotective and antidiabetic effects. The content of trigonelline in coffee can vary depending on several factors, including the type of coffee bean, the degree of roast, and the brewing method. Generally, green (unroasted) coffee beans contain the highest levels of trigonelline. The roasting process reduces the amount of trigonelline in the beans, as it breaks down with heat. Lighter roasts tend to retain more trigonelline than darker roasts, which are subjected to higher temperatures for longer periods. Arabica beans typically have higher trigonelline content than Robusta beans. However, since Arabica beans are often preferred for their flavor profile and are more commonly used in specialty coffees, they are usually roasted to a degree that might reduce their trigonelline content. When it comes to brewing methods, those that involve longer contact times between the water and the coffee grounds, such as French press or cold brew, may extract more trigonelline compared to methods with shorter contact times like espresso. In summary, if you're looking for coffee with the most trigonelline, you might want to choose a lightly roasted Arabica coffee and consider a brewing method that allows for a longer extraction time. However, it's important to note that the differences in trigonelline content may not be significant enough to greatly affect the health benefits or flavor of the coffee.

Yep, thanks @sooooooooDark, someone beat you to it, posting this paper about a week ago! If there's a part 3 to this series, I'm thinking about making my own sprouts from clover and alfalfa, (which is also trigonelline rich)...

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 id recommend not to use alfalfa, it contains a (unironically) pretty "toxic" amino acid, called l-canavanine", that (even in low doses) causes dna instabilities by displacing another similar amino acid (i think it was arginine) alfalfa is on my "never eat" food list actually because of it, nobody messes with my dna 😤

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 my reply seems to have gotten eaten up by youtube so ill redo it: alfalfa contains arginine-competing amino acid that is very undesirable. it makes the dna unstable in some ways even at very low dose wouldnt recommend alfalfa

From the Zwart paper in the video, "The levels of the two most common varieties are reported to be in the range of 6000-13,000 mg/g (Coffea arabica),and 3000-11,000 mg/g (Coffea robusta) pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7975906/

Thanks @laurenkatakowski9110 The only way to know is to test methylation markers-homocysteine, DNA methylation (epigenetcis)...

I'll likely get this question a lot-please see the pinned comment!

Dry weight, good question, I should've mentioned that in the video!

Liver enzymes, CRP were close to 2x higher than now, as some prominent examples I've detailed progress over the past 3yrs in terms of blood test-there might be value in seeing the early data CR, and getting leaner (current BW = 141 lbs, down from 159 lbs at my highest since 2015) for the greatest correlative impact

Not sure-the only way to know would be to measure blood trigonelline levels Someone in the comments has done that in terms of coffee intake and trigonelline, and their levels were 15x mine. I can't say if milk would mess with that, though

*may*. Unless you have your own data that shows it to be true, it's in the "may" category.

It's a fact which can easily be looked up.@@conqueragingordietrying1797

Hey @sebek12345, afaik, one can't eat fenugreek in large enough quantities to get a decent level of fenugreek (0.2 - 0.4% by weight), so I didn't include it in the video.

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I see. That does make sense. You definitely can't make a meal out of fenugreek seeds! Thank you for clarifying!

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 So none of these foods give enough Trigonelline to meet the 18g reguirement from the study - right? Even the highest on the list would require way more than 10 cups of coffee a day. So given your statement on fenugreek, none of these foods should be shown.

No can do, please see the pinned comment for the why

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 I'm saying as dry decaf coffee powder, so no extra hydration necessary.

Fenugreek has 0.2-0.4% trigonelline (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9182856/), so for 1g that would be 4mg trigonelline at most. I'm not sure that people eat more than a few grams/day, in contrast with the other foods on the list

I'll probably get this question a lot-the easy answer is that I'm already hyper-hydrated (60 oz water/d, plus the high FV content of the diet), and green tea is a staple, so including coffee would be a challenge

@@conqueragingordietrying1797 maybe swap 12-24 oz water for decaf coffee? just a sugg. brilliant video. I've been keeping track of all these random compounds like ergothionine, glutathionine, luteolin, kuromanin, apigenin, etc. along with the foods they're found in. so here's another one for the list. I have a big spreadsheet so I can sort and choose the healthiest foods. Your vid encouraged me to eat chickpeas in my instant pot today along with black barley. And here's another experiment I tried today: I mixed whole flax seeds into the instant pot, as opposed to grinding them. they came out soft, so I'm curious if I can grind them sufficiently by chewing and my body will digest them after they've been softened in the pressure cooker. Please don't ask how I'll verify they got digested ;)

Yep, my mistake, and thanks for that-I noted the misspeak in the pinned comment.

Please see the pinned comment...

Fenugreek also contains trigonelline, 0.2 - 0.4%: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9182856/ For 1g of fenugreek, that would be at most, 4mg of trigonelline. How much trigonelline would be needed to impact NAD, homocysteine, and/or melatonin isn't known, though.

Hi @arihaviv8510, oats and barley are great foods, including beta-glucan, but I needed to get the calories form somewhere...

Fenugreek has 0.2-0.4% trigonelline (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9182856/), so for 1g that would be 4mg trigonelline

A decent amount, 0.2 - 0.4% by weight, or 200-400/100g. However, I'm not sure how much fenugreek one can eat, maybe a couple of grams, which limits total trigonelline intake