TSS #7 vs #9 Tested | Long Range Ballistics Gel & Patterning 

Thanks so much!

Glad it was helpful!

Thanks so much for watching!

Thank you so much!

Thank you!

Thank you!

Thanks so much!

Thank you!

Thanks! I'm hoping to finally get to test the new Warchief's next week! Tough to get a video out about them in the middle of turkey season though.

Thank you!

I'm not familiar with that one. What are it's advantages?

@@TheNewHuntersGuide it's a 3" shell made by Apex. It gives you good leeway up close and the knockdown power at range. It seemed to shoot really well with my SBE3 and a Indian Creek .665. it seems to really perform at 60 yards.

Thanks so much Jeff!

Thank you so much! Good stuff.

Cory TSS shot is the next revolution in shotshell technology

@@stuartcrane9409 What is that about?

Thanks for watching!

Thanks! So any idea why some states restrict the use of 9s?

@@TheNewHuntersGuide From my understanding, in VT, it was due to old school thinking, these new and potentially unproven technologies (8,9,10 shot TSS) not being lethal and potentially injuring animals. After a bit of lobbying and seeing other states adapt, we came around pretty fast. NY just changed last year, I believe. I was planning an out of state hunt next month and they still had #2-8 on their website, I had to email and ask them to change it to the new law they just passed. - I'd assume it is the same reason why many states dont let you shoot. 410 (which VT does even before the TSS shot, which is interesting)

@@Drblood6721 Fascinating, well hopefully this video will help the cause!

@@TheNewHuntersGuide Ontario only came on board with #7's about 5 years ago. Still limited to 20 to 12 guage's. I don't think they'll ever come on board with #9's.. but I think that's to avoid people trying to take down turkeys with birdshot #9...

@@paulslund1 Ah, I understand.

#9 tss at 40 yards will smoke a coyote

If you are also shooting alot of coyotes then yea, I would opt for 7s too. And at that range, you are at no disadvantage for turkeys either. Thanks!

That helps!

I did reach out to Patternmaster, but never got a reply. Couldn't find one in stores either.

Thanks, I did a similar one ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xsLBenyfmy0.html Have a long Range Long Beard Test coming soon also.

@@TheNewHuntersGuide Oh dang. I thought I had seen them all. Don't know how I missed that one! Thanks!

8s or 8.5s would probably be a good option for those paranoid about stopping power. Thanks!

Apex has their Turkey Ninja that is 8.5 with a 2.25oz load. I patterned it with my winchester SXP and Carlson Long Beard choke (.665 constriction) and got really exceptional patterns out at 60yd.

@@blainek9344 I do like the idea of 8.5

The effect of brush on pellets is still a bit of a mystery. That would be a good future test. As of now, I cannot say for sure. I would think the 7s would have a margin of energy that leaves would do less to inhibit. But if it matters enough to make a difference within these ranges, I'm not sure.

Two main options are yes, a little Kentucky Windage is the easy way out. The other is to check your shotgun for fit. It could be that your length of pull, cast, or drop are off which is pushing things off for your point of aim. Here is a video on that: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gCkRSsy24QY.html& The other thing could just be the ammo you are using. The day I shot this test video, I did 2 other test videos, and all 3 brands of ammo had a different point of impact with the same red dot settings. Your fit could be good, it may be the ammo.

I’ve seen serious trap shooters pattern a gun and then smack the removed barrel against a bag of shot to slightly “move” the point of aim

@@zackzittel7683 I don't think I'll be trying that as long as I still have an intact warranty, a bit to risky for me, wow!

I clean each gun a few times a year. Depends on if/when they get wet or handled alot or shorting alot of sporting clays. But definitely not before each video.

@@TheNewHuntersGuide I bought a new Mossberg 500 optic ready 20ga and cleaned it and shot some low brass then a Winchester XR then 5 Rouge 9 shot. 8 shots total and the barrel was unbelievable dirty and after I did get it clean I looked at it a lot closer and it needs a drill and polished out not the slickest barrel I have seen but it shoots lights out at 40yds

@@rickvann3489 This one doesn't hold that much. But you are making me wonder if a good polishing might improve performance.

@The New Hunters Guide I am going to use a drill and polishing compound on one of mine and see. But not until after turkey season and it starts 4/17/23 here in WV

So the stock turkey choke isn't rated for TSS.... Which is very lame. What load would you have liked to see?

Send a box and I'll test it! This stuff ain't cheap. Comprehensive tests are not easy to do. RU-vid has on average been paying me $6 per video. That doesn't even cover the cost of paper and targets.

Thanks! It's not worth the effort to drag out a big shooting bench. It's easier to just use huge paper so there is plenty of margin to catch the whole pattern. The tripod is plenty for shotgun use.

That approach on the math makes sense, but I think it should be reserved for longer range applications. The sheer pellet count of the #9s is all that matters at distance when its penetration is beyond ample. When you get to the fringes, then looking are weight of shot on target starts to be more helpful of a calculation. At 40 yards, #9 TSS is really as effective as BB shot on a turkey head/neck, pellet per pellet. At 60+ yards, then your formula comes into play nicely.

Thanks so much! I've thought about it. But its much harder logistically. You need way more gel, marksmanship plays a bigger part, and Paul Harrel is owning that space lol

Thanks for the idea! What shot size? Definitely gonna need more Patreon supporters to get another shotgun just for testing, but anything is possible!

@@TheNewHuntersGuide need to use #9 TSS at 60 yd do you want me to send you a box of the 410 #9 TSS shot I have a extra box if you want me to send it to you give me your address

@@50-110nut I appreciate the offer. But I don't have a 410 shotgun yet to test it with.

Thanks. In some states you can't use 9s. So 7s are the only option. Which is dumb.

I think 8.5 would be ideal really. But yea, it's not easy to find either.

I don't think 8s would beat 9s. You already have more penetration than is needed. It probably makes sense to go even smaller.... 9.5s or 10s.

Going smaller on the pellets is a good idea for sub gauges that aren't trying to get to the absolute max range. For big 12 gauge shells, it seems like 9s or 8.5s are about the sweet spot for optimum pattern and range efficiencies. I have some longer range testing coming soon as well. For normal range shooting, going smaller has no down side.@@drjmwilson

Thanks! I don't have a 3.5" gun, but I've run the numbers on recoil and it's up there with 3.5" loads. It is more than you need for sure. Why would you use a 1.5 load in 3.5 gun?

If you are using plain steel shot, all you can really fit in a 3.5” shell is 1.5 ounces because of how light the pellets are.

@@stephenparchewski1998 Ah. for steel. Gotcha. That's a very different equation for waterfowl loads because the velocity is higher and so is the recoil. I have not run those numbers. But I'm sure these 3" turkey loads are in the same ballpark.

Yeah, I’m definitely curious about that. I’m suspecting that, even though the steel leaves the muzzle at approx 1500 fps, those turkey loads would produce more recoil because of the charge weight. Even 3.5” buckshot is 2.25 ounces…less than those turkey loads.

@@stephenparchewski1998 They kick like a mule. No two ways about it. I actually rolled my First Lite Tundra Beanie and put it under my hoody to help relieve some of the recoil. The last time I shot that many of these loads in one day I was black and blue for 3 weeks. One shot is fine, no issues. Two or three is ok. After that, every single one hurts and gets worse every time unless you jam a massive amount of padding under your clothes, which thankfully I did this time and had almost no issues.

Excellent!

I speculate it is to improve penetration via higher lubricity. Thought I really don't know for sure. None of my testing thus far has shown a measurable improvement caused by it. Though none of the loads I've tested against it had the same velocity either, so it's hard to tell when there are so many variables.

@@TheNewHuntersGuide if it was about lubricity, would it not be beneficial to instead use an unplated tungsten pellet? I could see it as a cheap solution to skimp on the process and materials used to protect the bore from the pellets. From a performance perspective it doesnt really look good to make tungsten pellets act more like lead

@@NorthRiverGuide yea I dunno, I have no data.

You definitely don't need more than the 2oz of TSS you can get in a BOSS 20-gauge shell, that's for sure.

You shot TSS at doves??? How loaded are you my guy? 🤣

@@D_Boone Ya, probably wouldn’t use TSS for dove 😂 $10 a bird 🤦🏻‍♂️

They would shoot them at 100 yards if the ammo made it possible! I don't hunt many places where you can even see them at that kind of range.

I appreciate the support. I'm not trying to compete with anyone, just doing my thing to make the videos I'd want to watch that fit my style. Thanks!

Raybob you still salty about BCO hurting your feelings? 😂

@@-B_G- didn't hurt my feelings your on here so I guess you want other options than a guy that gets called handsome but another guy just saying 😜

Haha

Oh, shooting through feathers is coming! I just need to get a turkey!

You are sick if you think #9 tss is bouncing off turkeys. Let’s just say it will kill turkeys way farther than you want to shoot it. That’s plum foolish to say that bc it’s a lie. Also how can you see pellets bounce off a turkey? 😂

When you see the pattern cover the bird, feathers fly all over the ground and the bird runs off, we call that bouncing off the bird. Yes, you can see it very plainly, and like I said there's plenty of videos out there of those little pellets not performing at extended range on turkeys.

@@briargoatkilla - That’s because. 1: The shooter was off. 2: They didn’t pattern their gun/choke/shell. 3: plus they were shooting too far. This video proved that at distances, way farther than you should shoot at a turkey, that #9’s were more than capable to do the job. If you hit head and neck with there is 0% chance of a 9 bouncing off a turkey. At distance If you hit the body with anything on the market he is running off. Shouldn’t hit the body at all if he is in range.

Literally shot one at 45 and one at 65 last year with # 9s and they were stone cold dead😂😂😂

Almost!

That's $13 a turkey. People spend thousands on guns, gear, calls, and boots. Some spend thousands more on land or leases. What's another $13 a season to get some extra range and confidence?

@@TheNewHuntersGuide most hunters I know that spend thick stacks on equipment do so because they *don't* fall for 13 dollar a round ammo. They're not going to, either. Maybe the hunters you know are okay with spending 5k to hunt a deer or shoot some 50 dollar ducks for a week, but I'm going to bet they're not having to rely on those hunts to feed their kids. Far from it. Also, 13 bucks a turkey? No.. lol... What did you just burn on that very basic pattern "test"? 6 hulls? Almost 80 bucks. What if you had another choke to try? That first bird is quickly getting real expensive, ain't he? How many you gotta kill to get em back down to 13 bucks a shot? We're allowed 2 turkeys a year here in Ohio, and this coming spring season is still undecided, so maybe only one next year. Even living close to the edge like I do, that's still only 4 birds in 2 states per year, assuming you're a 2 state license holder *and* are able to cluck one in 4 times. Not a lot of shooting to get that average back down, is there? A bow starts to look really good at that point in the equation, especially around here where people make 15k a year, and those are the people doing 95% of the hunting. These people are just fine with 95% of that performance for less than 10% of the price. Hate to say it, but those much maligned 3.5 hulls you think are such a ripoff will do exactly the same patterns with bigger shot for, what.. 1/10th the price or so? 25% for heavy turkey loads? Hell, I'll even shit in the high cotton and reload something for you with plated Daisy airgun match grade BBs for less than a dollar a hull. *And you can bet your ass I'll be using the right wad for the hull as well, Boss.* You know, people also spend thousands of dollars a week on dirty street dope to shoot into themselves as well.. They enjoy what it gets them, but that doesn't mean it's not stupid.

Wow, really? Why?

@@TheNewHuntersGuide The hunting rules are not keeping up with the capabilities of TSS. We can't use anything smaller than a 20 gauge either.

@@chrismcneil5543 Wow, where are you?

@@TheNewHuntersGuide Connecticut

@@TheNewHuntersGuide We need lots of updating to our hunting rules. Can't hunt Sundays, can only hunt whitetails till sunset, no public rifle hunting, just .22 rimfire or smaller, can't bait coyotes or night hunt them etc. etc.

What is the pellet count on #7s at 80 yards?

@@TheNewHuntersGuide I shot 3 targets the first had 7 brain and spine second was 8 and forth was not as good with 4, I also believe in cleaning my barrel every few shots and I mean really clean

@@stevenwalker7928 did you do a 10" circle count?

@@TheNewHuntersGuide no need I’m only concerned about the kill shot even if it’s only 50 count that doesn’t matter to me, if I shoot 10 targets and all 10 have only 3 killing pellets that’s still a 100% kill ratio, 90% of my kills come within 40 yards here in Louisiana you can’t see a bird at 60 yards to much cover. I also hunt Oklahoma, Kansas in open country and will shoot at 80yards with confidence

@@stevenwalker7928 Thanks!

You are correct!

How do you conclude these are terrible patterns?

Nobody cares what you would hunt with😂

It's not a waste! It's important testing that can save viewers thousands of dollars!

Me too!

Potentially more at range.