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I still find alot of the issues of driving you find with the Turbo S E-Hybrid would be solved with driving the new non hybridized Panamera Turbo S. 650 hp all engine. It weighs substantially less. Really nice to drive.
The issue of non-hybrids in some countries (like Finland) is that the co2 emission based car tax is huuuuge. Can be 100k of just tax in the price, compared to hybrid it can be 3500€
I was literally going in my head "This car has wheels - not standard - doors - not standard - wiper blades - not standard - an engine - not standard". I really don't get how this end of the market are happy to be absolutely shafted by options you get as standard on cars costing a third or less than this - I mean most mid-range SUV's have had 360 degree cameras as standard for several years now!
I agree the first generation Panamera isn't a looker, but as a 4-year owner of a 970 Panamera S (yes, S, so two-wheel drive), I started to love it. It has every single option (ex-Danish bank CEO car) and it is the greatest everyday car I have ever driven or been driven in. The air suspension is so comfortable that you just glide on the highway. The space in the back is ludicrous: my 1.95m broter easily fits behind me in the back, height as well as leg wise. Plus I can fit a number of golf bags with 4 people in it. It easily fits two bicycles with the rear seats down. On and on the practicality goes. Also my car weighs 650 kilos (!!!!!!!) less than this car, since it doesn't have 4WD. So my car may 'only' have 400bhp and 500Nm, the difference in speed is probably not that large, which is kinda silly. The prices on the old Panamera are becoming really good nowadays, as with most luxury cars. So much value, and it can have every option this car in the review has. Another fact that probably nobody knows: did you know that the first generation Panamera was available as a manual? Very, very rare, but can be found on the large german car occasion website.
interesting, as I drove a new Panamera 3.0 base model and at 186cm, i had almost no room behind me, and i drive quite close to the wheel - no straight arms here. Also I couldn't fit a set of golf clubs in the boot -straight. Need 107cm, boot was only 104 deep. Road noise was atrocious, worse than our Cayenne and the Macan they swapped it out for. Drives ok! Still didn't like the haptic buttons, and dash lights too bright for Oz country roads. It took about 5 minutes going through so many menus to dim them. Kept thinking I had it wrong as it was still too bright. One dial on the dash lowers the dash lowers the Cayennes...progress- perhaps not. I think Porsche is going backwards in ergonomics. Gone from benchmark to so so. Everyone complained about the Cayenne/Panamera dash and consoles buttons, but so easy to use quickly.
James, do you reckon that if you were to choose the 'sweet-spot' of this 2nd generation Panamera's line up, would it be the GTS Sport Turismo? Slightly cheaper, yet comes with the Turbo's looks, and has that rumbling V8 that you could wind out more of its power on public roads? Thanks in advance.
facelift Turbo S (non hybrid) should also be considered. Same looks 630ps (621bhp) 2135kg All the performance of the e-hybrid without the extra weight or setup difficulties
Gts with techart powerkit: 426kw. Turbo costs 22k € more than gts and has 404kw instead of 338kw. If you add the techart powerkit (4k €) you still save 18k € and get engine which produces more than the turbos engine (theyre the same engine anyways, just different pressures)
Wow! Thanks jay! For uploading this video! Porsche panamera is my favorite car! I will own one in the future! Loved the video!! I still like the shape of the old one more!!
Nice video. Thank you for showcasing the rear wheel steer others talk about it but you have it on video. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.
So the question is (maybe one for your chatty videos), are premium brand cars just profiteering from customers with options lists? My neighbour has a 2019 VW Tiguan R-Line and so many of the things you mentioned as options, are standard on the £40k Tiguan. Pan Roof, LED matrix lights etc. Not that I am comparing a Tiguan to a Panamera, but if the VW group can have these as standard features on a Tiguan, why do they become very expensive options on a Porsche?
Lovely content as always James. With your interior driving videos, can you please consider mounting a camera which shows the facia/dash/windscreen while driving.
Taycan is more like M5, E63, RS6 alternative. The Panamera is more like M8, S63, M760Li competition since its bigger than those mid size executive sedans. I remember my friend bought a Panamera 4 executive and I was surprised by how mig the rear seat space was .
I totally agree on the Taycan choice... I've never really WANTED a Porsche before, but I saw a dark green Taycan on the road the other day and man oh man do they look good. First WANT ONE Porsche that I've seen.
I have owned the non-hybrid version of this car for two years, and can attest that it is far lighter, more engaging and visceral, and quicker than the hybrid version. Would be a much better choice to compare against any of the cars you mentioned, such as the RS6, the FF, or the AMG GT. I hope you review one of those. As for the Taycan, the rear seats and storage aren’t as big, and the limited range doesn’t cut it for long road trips. The Panamera Sport Turismo is the ultimate continent crusher for a family trip. Only the RS6 is really a competitor in that category.
Another great vid thanks for sharing. When you spoke about the push to pass button giving 20 seconds of full attack mode, I saw an image of the Hulk returning to Bruce Banner half way past a truck with nowhere to hide, 🙈, guess you press the button again and pray 🙏
As someone who's cross-shopping between this and its Cayenne variant nowadays, I'd like to express a couple of misconsiderations about Porsche's pricing strategy. Both of the cars will have their highest trim levels. Most of the tech we all want is non-standard. However, with some Porsche background, these cars actually have all of the chassis-related as standard. That involves PASM, PTV Plus, and more. You'll basically pay for the core and building from thereon. I personally don't like having Comfort Access (or Keyless Entry) on my cars, I travel a lot, and I'm worried that the vehicle might get stolen at night. InnoDrive is a requirement for UK roads, but it doesn't mean anything to most EU and US customers. Sports Exhaust is cool, but you can go for Techart or Cargraphic to get enhanced sound. Sunroof is good, but it makes it heavier. You can get Lightweight Sports Package. All in all, it's obviously pricey because there is Porsche Tax. It's not a cheap one, but it definitely feels better after my S Class and those BMW Ms with imbalanced engines and gearboxes.
Those massive pillars seem to be in all cars these days, apparently in the name of safety to protect you if you have a crash, which is far more likely to happen because you cannot see a damn thing.
Looking forward to you testing a well equipped first gen Panamera. They can be purchased for minimal $ or £ and are the best value you can get in a used luxury car.
I agree and I think there was initial plans to do so, however I suspect VW group vetoed the idea. As they would be concerned it would take away some of Bentley’s customer base for the continental GT.
The regular turbo or the GTS would probably make a lot more sense since they weigh less and are quite a lot cheaper. Taycan is great but the range is just abysmal.
@@Blanc777 my dad owns a Taycan Turbo S. it’s the most impressive car he’s ever had, and he’s a very serious driver (VLN on the nordschleife) and he’s loves His taycan. However, he’s getting rid of it. Solely because of the range, it just doesn’t work in the UK. Too many taken or broken charging stations and not enough range in between. And guess what he’s got coming in November to replace it? A non-hybrid panamera turbo s wagon
How fast ?. Blimey!. A 700Hp Porsche is bloody fast even without the shoulder shove. I was told the e-Drive bits on this car is the same as the one in the Porsche 918 SuperCar.
Makes no sense new but I have bought a 2018 turbo ST with over £25k of options and a 2 year Porsche warranty for less than £70k in 2023, V8 550bnp non hybrid so less weight and is brilliant as a one car does it all package,
I don’t know if there is something wrong with my eyes but I remember the front end being quite a bit different from a Panamera I had seen. I don’t know is it because it is ST or the one I saw had some styling pack on it
Much prefer real world motoring in my 2014 3.0TD Panamera..yes is Fugly to some.. but it gets my ample frame and children fully loaded anywhere in comfort and style and is a joy ..and at just 25K the price of a new set of ceramic discs and pads on the version shown here…and 42mpg what’s not to love…
There's a rumour that the hunchback is because a senior figure at Porsche insisted in being able to sit in the back, and he was quite tall. You're definitely right, coupaloon or wagon would have worked, quasimodo did not. Edit: Jay just referenced this in the video 😬
Only in Britain they can find somebody to criticize Porsche, this is a super car for sure. Well now what about R.R, Bentley, Jaguar, Aston, Landrover all junk, although the best looking interiors we have to give them that. All above British cars high maintenance/depreciation unreliable junk brr.
I wonder if you’d better enjoy the standard facelift panamera turbo? Has less weight and from reviews I have seen just as fast, if not faster in the real world
Im not the biggest fan of this car, but in a wordl where the cayenne coupe exists (and its spoiler 🤮🤮🤮🤮), I can't think of a better contender in the segment and it sounds like a real car that is not farting constantly to compensate the lack of soul like the AMG did
like in most cars today, there is too much electronics that can fail will fail ... will cost a lot of money to fix... and ultimately move average usable speed close to zero. see you at the charger. cars exaggeratingly beeping reminds me of clicker training. dogs and drivers need their behaviour conditioned. good bye freedom. love my 1964 E-type, never mind its nonsync 1st
For 90% of people the m3, Audi RS and AMG’s are not the go to car that does it all. The majority of people’s bank account will lead them towards golf GTi, Focus ST, octavia VRS.
I know its impossible to please everyone, and whilst its great that Porsche have their 'Macan' as their slightly more compact & lighter SUV of the 'Cayenne', I wish Porsche made a smaller version of the Panamera that would have similar dimensions to the 3 series/Giulia/A4/C class segment. Perhaps it would jeopardise the 'premium' aspect of the Porsche brand image and BMW have dominated that 'sporty' RWD saloon market for decades... Whilst this 2nd gen Panamera has a pleasing looking interior+exterior, the narrow roads would intimidate me a bit. Perhaps the Taycan will have a smaller brother to compete with the Tesla Model 3 in the future.
@@JoJoJoker Yes indeed Joel, a practical 4 seater with a lower centre of gravity than the SUV range. Also slightly lighter and more aero dynamic than those taller cars. Unfortunately the Panamera is one of the least produced cars in the Porsche line-up ever since the Taycan was released, so perhaps it will most likely be a smaller Taycan that Porsche will most likely make - because of the upcoming 2030 petrol car sale ban. Hopefully it won't have the reputation of being bought by drug dealers that move on from Golf Rs and BMWs.
@@joetaka7620 I doubt the petrol sale ban will take place in 2030. It’s such a ridiculous idea. Hemp biofuel could replace petroleum and while still working with older vehicles. Unless we start getting on board with Gen V Nuclear power, electricity is still just as dirty as petrol.
@@JoJoJoker I hope you're right, I'm just a bit of a pessimist now that the Japanese Government has copied that idea, as well as the 'Blue' states of America including California and New York. Hopefully we'll see more improvement with Porsche's eFuel development in Chile over the next 9 years. Also hope to see progress with Toyota's Corolla endurance racecar that uses hydrogen powered 1.6 engine from the GR Yaris as well.
@@joetaka7620 it’s pretty elitist given only wealthier people will be able to afford new electric cars and the gas prices will have the greatest impact on them.
As some that has had the panamera and is close to the GTC4 Lusso the list references are redundant, no? The 300k Lusso is now 195k with 10k on the clock. This is trading at £145k 3 months old with 4K on the clock. The Lusso will run thru 2 tanks of V power a month @ £300 per month where as this is 1 tank at £120. They are a lot closer than us made out here…
I would hope that constantly banging on about things like Cruise Control (std on a Kia) really would sort this stupid options on Porsches out, imho it's embarrasing for the manufacturer (any kind) to be charging for such basic items...
It's £150k I don't think anyone was worrying much about fuel or maintenance costs when buying. It's for those people who want to spend a lot and get performance but need some practicality
@@JayEmmOnCars Rich people I know have cobweb pockets, I think that's why they are rich :) That's what I was getting at btw only the rich would see this as a daily. But I enjoyed watching cars I can't afford:)
It's a bit ugly, looks pretty porky and awkward. Seems pretty pointless it being a hybrid as well. That added weight seems like it would have been better off being removed, dropping the weight reducing the top power output. WOuld make it handle better and you would probbaly get better fuel economy. Not to mention the price would drop a lot and they could add those "not standard" features in that shoudl really be standard for that price range. It would also remove that hideous "e-hybrid" badge which is a win win for me. Tycan just seems like a buch better car to me but even then I would be more interested if they where just petrol. It wwould have made more sense to me if they had made a sucessor to the 924, 944 and 928.
@@fettlemaster That's the thing I dont' understand though, if you have the money to buy this car you will easily be able to afford the tax of a regular none hybrid car. SO why woudl anyone buy the hybrid over the Turbo S when the Turbo S is better in ever way but may cost you a littl emore that you won't even notice in tax.
@@Punisher9419 because in a lot of markets the tax advantage makes the hybrid cheaper to own. For instance in the U.K. a lot of these cars are bought through a company. The user then has to pay a tax on the benefit of its use. The tax is a sliding scale on official co2 output. Thus they save thousands personally every year going with the hybrid. In Norway due to co2 taxes on new cars the turbo s hybrid is cheaper to buy than the regular turbo. In areas with congestion charging, the plug in hybrid may attract reduced or zero congestion charge (which can be $20 a day in central London). When you run the numbers, a market exists for it or they wouldn’t make it. None of these would apply to me, so I’d go regular Turbo S if I was a buyer.
A prime example of 160,000 pounds still doesnt get you?? A fully working car and if you compared it to a 16,000 pound older car or a 1,600 pound car I bet the 1st isn't 10X worse than this one and the second not 100 X better. Would love to see a comparison out of interest!!! Jason ---- Australia
If i could choose just one vehicle for all my needs until the end of my life.....i wouldn't choose a Porsche, Audi RS6, or anything like that. I would choose a G-wagon....diesel. That would be much more capable than any of these cars, and not much more expensive. Like
termit520 Wrong. G wagon drives like 💩 compared to all those other cars on public roads where you spend most of the time on. Not everyone wants a tractor sounding heap of junk for wannabe kardashians
@@joetaka7620 Maybe you're right, but maybe you're not right, too....you see, there's some other people in the world except Kardashians who appreciate some other capabilities from the car...oh yes, i forgot to mention, G is not a car, you know? That tractor sounding heap of junk is accidentally most capable off road truck in the world. More than 20 years before, that crappy heap of junk saved my life, including lifes of a few soldiers and one little family....but that doesn't matter. I'm watching at the things from the other standpoint, you know? That ''Kardashian's'' tractor is a machine that will outlive me and you....together.
@@termit520 having driven a G wagen as both a military vehicle in the desert and a fancy AMG version (Kardashian spec) around LA, I can say it’s not a great car for around town daily driving. But then, I feel that way about any SUV - including car-based cross-overs. Top heavy and bouncy suspension, hard to maneuver in tight quarters, etc. Just silly. Brilliant as a military vehicle, though.
@@darrenbradley1506 exactly my friend... everybody needs a bit of a military machine in life.... especially if that machine will outlast any other machine on the road... and off the road. i didn't have a chance to use a civil version unfortunatelly but military G is always in my heart... what a little monster, who wouldn't like it?
I still can't wrap my head around this They already have all the colours more or less accurate in the website car configurator. How hard to assign the correct skin to the right chassis number which is surely stored somewhere in a car computer.
@@blckbldng agreed, Apple do it when you plug your iPhone in the computer or when you check your devices in your account and it’s always in the correct colour etc. No excuses when people pay this much for a car. I was disappointed when I found out the golf gives you a bog standard shape visual even in the gti etc.. Porsche’s hands are clearly tied here! Poor!
@@aaronmuir8082 yeah, I could accept it in my previous old model passat but I got a new one beginning of the year and it angers me so much it still shows the same light grey car when my car is actually almost black
@@blckbldng the impossible bit is getting screens to accurately show colours. Almost none of them are spot on. The manufacturers could do better though but colour is so difficult to realistically show
