Understanding Violence in the Old Testament 

I was literally just struggling with this issue and +Barron decides to upload a video about it the very same week. The Holy spirit is working in him for sure

I’m a confessional Lutheran and I love this channel. Thanks for your work Bishop Barron.

20:00 St Ireneus's position 27:30 St. Augustine and St. Aquinas' positions 32:00 Origen's approach 40:00 allegorical vs historical view

It was reading of the Documents of Vatican II that led me to begin my journey into the Catholic Church at the age of 70 after a life time as a faithful Protestant.

I was debating with a Protestant online recently. He kept telling me all the sins of the Catholic Church in history. Finally I told him, “If u hate the Catholic Church, you must double hate the Bible with all its violence and sin and corruption.” He never talked to me again.

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 📖 Distinguishing between what's in the Bible and what the Bible teaches: The Bible contains diverse texts from different contexts and literary genres, so proof-texting is insufficient for understanding its teachings. 09:19 📚 Reading the Bible with sophistication: The Bible is a complex collection of texts that require careful consideration of historical, literary, and cultural contexts for accurate interpretation. 13:32 🕊️ The role of the Church in biblical interpretation: The Catholic Church emphasizes reading the Bible liturgically and within the context of magisterial teaching and tradition. 16:49 🛑 Rejecting Marcionism: Avoiding the simplistic notion of separating the Old and New Testament gods, and rather reading the Old Testament in light of the New Testament. 20:26 📖 Divine Pedagogy Approach (St. Irenaeus): The Bible represents an ongoing education of humanity, with different stages of revelation appropriate to the audience's understanding. 23:30 🪶 Anthropomorphic language and progressive revelation: The Bible uses language suitable for the audience's comprehension, such as anthropomorphic descriptions of God in earlier stages of revelation. 26:23 🚶‍♂️ The accommodation theory: God accommodates His revelation to human understanding at different points in history, using the language and concepts familiar to each era. 29:36 🕊️ The overarching themes of love and redemption: Despite challenging passages, the Bible's fundamental message centers on God's love, mercy, and the story of salvation. 30:49 🌅 The fulfillment of the Old Testament in the New Testament: The New Testament sheds light on the Old Testament's deeper meanings, revealing its ultimate fulfillment in Christ. 32:06 🧠 Intellectual and moral growth in understanding God: Just as humans develop intellectually and morally, the understanding of God's nature and revelation matures throughout the biblical narrative. 22:49 🌟 Different perspectives on interpreting violent passages in the Old Testament. 23:17 🌌 Gradual revelation: God's evolving self-revelation in the Old Testament. 24:28 📖 Irenaeus' perspective: Old Testament as God and humanity mutually preparing for Jesus' incarnation. 25:38 💬 Reading violent texts as metaphoric expressions of God's power in Israel's development. 26:46 🌞 Progression of understanding from primitive metaphors to the love revealed in Jesus. 27:27 ⚖️ Divine justice approach: God's prerogative to take life away, using secondary causes. 29:43 🛡️ Divine justice approach: Using Israel's armies to express God's justice against wickedness. 31:47 💭 Allegorical approach: Reading Old Testament stories as allegories of spiritual struggle. 33:10 📚 Reading the Bible through the lens of the crucified Lamb of God. 35:13 🔍 Historical sense: Acknowledging the historical grounding of the Bible, though not in modern historical writing style. 39:11 🌍 Interpreting events as theologically elaborated history rather than modern historiography. 44:41 🧠 Carl Jung: Jung's influential ideas, archetypes, and the collective unconscious. 46:07 🤔 Jung's agnostic tendencies and psychologization of biblical language. 47:00 🤝 Balanced assessment: Jung's significance, improvements over Freud, and potential pitfalls. Made with HARPA AI

In my last year of high school in 1972 (eek) Sister Valerian took us through the Documents of Vatican 11. She was an amazing teacher and we loved those lessons. She taught us how to read Church documents and he wisdom and insights were wonderful. I will always be grateful for her gift to us.

Fr, Mike Schmitz at Ascension Press is also working through the Old Testament in his excellent Bible in a Year series. Catholics need sound Biblical instruction.

*_Bishop Bob's Big Bible Commentary_* I will buy three copies if that's the title. ; )

*"We must distinguish between what's in the Bible and what the Bible TEACHES."* - Bishop Robert Barron on 'Understanding Violence in the Old Testament.'

Dear Bishop and Brandon, it’s very illuminating for me personally given l am just a beginner in terms of my relationship with HIM but l am making significant progress in my search for His holy Will. God bless you. Praise the Lord

Philosopher Paul Conan says that we should read these violent passages in the ancient Near Eastern narrative. N.T Wright has also made this point. He says that the narrative was hyperbolic and written as a performance art since most listeners could not read. Phrases like utterly destroy, put to death, totally obliterate were idioms that signify a total victory. This helps to explain why in Joshua 10:40; 11;15 the Canaanites are utterly destroyed, yet in Joshua 23:12-13 the Canaanites continue to be in the land. Putting to death can be taken to mean a victory over sin. This helped me to get past the violence and instead to the message. Thanks to Brandon and the Bishop for another great discussion.

Bishop Barron thank you so much for your evangelization on Tube. I enjoy listening to your teachings and Sunday Summon. God bless you. I pray for you and all the people in Word on Fire .

"The New is hidden in the Old and the Old is revealed in the New." "Every scribe who has been instructed in the Kingdom of Heaven is like the head of a household who brings from his storeroom *both* the new and the old." Matthew 13:52b

To be honest I was guilty of jumping on the VII bashing train calling for VIII without fully understanding VII, but I took the time and went through some of the documents the Trads were misinterpreting and I've changed my mind since. VII is misunderstood by many Catholics including me. Bishop Barron, I'm glad you've released this book to shed light on such a confusing and misunderstood topic.

The RU-vid channel Lutheran Satire did a bit on Richard Dawkins’ objection on God being a moral monster and I loved their response. It was along the lines of “Did you honestly just argue that God doesn’t exist because He’s mean? If being a jerk made you suddenly cease to exist, then every war in human history would have ended the second it started!”

"Proof texting." a.k.a. Too little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Thank you, Bishop Barron.

Wow / What a blessing that message was, Bishop! Thank you! / God bless your important ministry! 🙏

Thanks Bishop Barron. Looking forward to your book. I want to understand Vatican 2 once and for all.

Thank you Bishop Barron. God bless.

Thank you for doing a show on that topic Bishop Barron, that was awesome! I’ve been reading the Narrative Books of the Bible and on Luke now. I’ve really enjoyed reading those books. Thanks Dave

Thank you Father Barron! You have taught me so much and have continually helped me to build my understanding.

Time stamps would be great if possible next time please!

Its a very useful episode, I have been struggling with the Old Testament too. One remark on the uncompromising and merciless attitude towards sin: reading the Dessert Fathers I think that permanent struggle with temptations has its own pitfalls: pride, feelings of guilt, obsessive thoughts.

Yes, the violence of the Old Testament is a stumbling block, especially for us baby boomers raised in the late 60s along with following generations who embraced pacifism to various degrees. Interesting in the Wall Street Journal book review section this pass weekend there was a review on "The Bomber Mafia", author Malcolm Gladwell. Now not to give a full summary of the review/book but just to convey something that raised an eyebrow. The firebombing of Japanese cities continued even after the dropping of the atomic bomb on Nagasaki in that short period of time until the end of the war. Rest assured there was minimal dissent within the USA at this military operation. The American people ("greatest generation here") wanted this war won and our enemy vanquished and the war to be over despite the horrible suffering inflicted on our enemy. To be short and to the point, in our human makeup we are not as different as we think from the biblical Israelites who fought "total war" against their enemies. All of humanity needs the Redemptive act of Christ who came to redeem us for our sins.

Thank you Bishop Baron for shining the light of the Spirit onto a very difficult problem. This has helped me so much. God bless you always

Thankyou Bishop Barron and May God Bless You 🙏✝️❤️😁

Every time I hear the Bishop speak and explain things, I'm moved. I understand more. Wow.

This will be one of his most watched videos in a couple of weeks.

The whole presentation by Bishop Barron had my complete focus. What an excellent presentation! Thank you, Bishop Barron and Brandon Vogt!

Praise to the lord. And blessings to those who serve in the lord

Thank you Bishop Barron for each of your posts!! They have greatly enriched my life and relationship with God. I feel I have finally found the true church and would join if I could get out and about.

Yes, I pray we all believe this & for the whole area of Los Angels county and vicinity because I love that place as my 2nd home on this planet and the ppl and my adult children and gson are there!! ❤️🍀

Beautiful, you make the word "burn" within me....again!

Praise be God! TY for such a thoughtful beautiful explanation, some more mud removed from my eyes... Thanks be to God

Thank you Bishop Barron!

YES PLEASE, we would love a FULL episode on Carl Jung!

As a Prptestant and pastor for 50 years I was helped by hermeneutics approach by genre. THANK you.

Thanks for publishing the book on Vatican 2. I have pre-ordered a copy from Europe. Sonja, South Africa. Cannot wait. Another wonderful book from Bishop Barron.

Congratulations for 4 lakh subscribers Bishop barron. God bless you. Lots of love from India

400 thousand subscribers! Congratulations Bishop Barron; here's to at least another 400 thousand. Please do sth special to mark the occasion!

"As Catholics we should read the Bible liturgically and we should read it within the context of the Church, *which means the magisterial teachings of the Church and the long tradition of interpretation."* 15:30f.

Excellent! Really great class on hermeneutics! Greetings from Brazil!

Thank you Bishop!

Word. Very educative and enlightening.

I thoroughly enjoyed this presentation and I find I am in agreement with all that you say here Bishop. I have a question though, ironically it seems considering the context of your message here, I was tripped up by the direction you took after paraphrasing Origen (I am going to paraphrase your paraphrase here myself) ‘Origen said you have to understand the entire Bible in light of its last book...’ Your discussion then focused on concepts and images detailed in the Book of Revelation... Was Revelation the “last” book in the “Bible” Origen knew?

Truly brilliant! But there's one thing that strikes me : the 3 approaches can be (and ARE) true at the same time. I am surprised there was not more emphasis on this truly important notion.

If I were a catechist, working with either youngsters or RCIA, I would use the first approach as an overview-----painting with a broad brush as Bishop Barron implied. Then I would move on to the third approach for the reason Brandon offered. The second view could be difficult, at first, for many newcomers to the faith because they reject "original sin" -----citing the unfairness of inherited sin from the parents. This was so very clearly presented Bishop-----I wish someone like you had taught my trigonometry class in high school.

I love this explanation.

Hello Word on Fire Team. Could you please start noting in the description that this is the same as the numbered episodes in the Itunes feed?

Very enriching video again from the world on fire show with it's superior way of explaning as deep as accessable. Similar praise for the si deeply needed reading of Vatican Il that you offer. But i have a little interrogation about a remark on Yung, the listener's question: what's strange about saying: i don't believe in God i know God exists... Shouldn't we hear it more often in some context...

Outstanding point: read the entire Bible through the lens of the atonement - the victory of Christ makes all of it make sense. He is in the first verse and the last verse and throughout.

wow love how you talk about carl jung, joseph campel, and jordan b peterson

Grats on 400k subs :)

According to the Easter Vigil readings (the most beautiful and moving service of the entire year), the Church is the fulfilment of the Old Testament, so it is an integral part of us and we are an integral part of it...

Really good presentation! I'm really intrigued by Origen's reading of the slaughtered lamb as the hermeneutical key for all Scripture, but I can't seem to track down the source. Which one of his writings was this from?

Thank you Bishop, I hope you can discuss Liberation Theology.

Praise the Lord

Thank you for this show! I learn so much from listening to you guys.

Would love to hear the story of St.Michael and his power when prayed to. My church is St.Michaels, Craig Colorado. Ken Davis

I see all three approaches as having their place in Bible interpretation. Great talk!

Interesting how such a holy man adopts the helio-centric model which is an inversion of the biblical description.

Still struggling with understanding this issue; this discussion did not do it for me.😊

What Bishop Barron is talking about is what I call chronological context. What was the author of a passage of scripture capable of understanding about the natural world and God’s will.

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ 🙏 Mother Mary Pray For Us 🙏Abba Father Bless us and we Adore You 🙏Holy Spirit Guide us and direct our paths 🙏

For people mostly times was It only for own defense with mercy clear!

I’ve always understood that you can’t take everything written in the Bible literally-it wasn’t written nor meant to be understood that way. In my search for understanding the violence, one answer I heard was ‘God dealt with and through Israel in the only way the people of that time would have understood and/or respected.’ Bishop Barren’s methods of ‘interpreting’ the Bible make good sense to me.

Any good books on this subject?

What an excellent BIBLE 101 or Appreciation, in understanding! Wonderful discussion! Thank you.

The WordOnFire/Vatican II book: does it come in an audio format? For those of us with failing eyesight?

Can't wait till the mailman brings me my copy "Vatican 2". This book will be a must for everyone!

In case someone is curious, actually Saint Augustine taught that the comment of that specific psalm with the reference to kill the enemies children to the rock means that the children are the bad works aka sins, the rock is Christ, so we have to kill our sins through Christ. This is the only way to make sense of ALL the psalm and not only one part of it.

BRILLIANT ! A breathtaking panorama ! A true disciple of St John Henry Newman in his groundbreaking SERMONS, ARIANS OF THE 4TH CENTURY and ESSAY ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE

Anyone has link to Babylon Bee podcast they have been talking about? I cannot find it so I guess it was not published yet?

The Roman Catholic Church The Church is one The Church is holy The Church is apostolic The Church is dynastic The Church is Hierarchical The Church is messy The Church is Mystery The Church is teacher The Church is Mother The Church is universal The Church is sacramental The Church is authoritative The Church is visible The Church is unchangeable The Church is missionary The Church is the Kingdom of God The Church is TRUTH The Church is the bride of Christ. The Church is the mystical body of Christ The Church is in the world not of the world.

The harshest doctrine in the entire Bible is Hell, and it’s not close. The New Testament reveals Hell fully, so the New Testament is far harsher than the Old Testament. There’s still a step change in tone between the Old and New Testaments when it comes to violence etc though. The Augustinian approach described in the video is the cleanest and probably technically correct historically, in my opinion. The problem is that it’s hard to stomach and isn’t nearly as useful for evangelization.

Would you be willing to take a deeper look at the growing trend of radical traditionalism that you've mentioned disturbs you Bishop Barron? What is it, what's fueling it, where did it come from and how do we deal with it? Thanks

Thanks Brandon & Bishop Barron very help especially with reading the Bible in a year podcast.

Bishop, once during a discourse on the Theo-Drama, you challenged anyone to find two consecutive pages of the entire Bible, Old Testament or New, without coming across language of God’s anger or God’s judgement. For a fallen-away Christian trying to work their way back to the church, but without access to a Bible scholar or good Bible commentary, that’s quite a bit of challenging language to weed through, don’t you agree?

Bishop Barron totally on fire 😄 He sounds like he just came from speaking to Jordan Peterson, MAN.

I love it that you called our lord by his name Yeshua Jesus Christ. I learn so much from you father will you talk to us about the mark of the beast and what this means to us. God bless

I am the only Catholic among very Christian people working at a homeless shelter. Watching this video helps me realize that proof texting is huge difference between us. The thought occurred to me: if the canon of the bible did exist like the in the early Church history, would God still exist?

In the Easter Vigil readings last week - once again the incident where God commands Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. Ive always wondered - how did Isaac feel about his Dad after that? Bible doesn't go there! I'm guessing Isaac hid or ran whenever Abraham came too close...especially if he was in a bad mood...At the very least, an ambivalent beginning for a 'Chosen People'. .😊

exelente Bishop Robert Barron I got a revelation and i am interested on what you talk about the Bible thank to God i readed fully couple times but by listening to priest like you i keep learning i also listen to Father Paul Nicolson form Canada he is good too

You should keep the title Bob"s Big Bible Book.

I have such a high opinion of Origen of Alexandria, the first Theologian and considered as one of the Church Fathers. I have heard that Pope Benedict speaks highly of him as well. During one of the persecutions, he was tortured but did not die until weeks later. I understand that some of his theology was the basis for later heresies but that should be understandable as he was the first Theologian. Its a shame that he is not considered a saint nor a martyr. I think it is an injustice.

But Bishop, we are all sinners, we can't wipe out sinn of our lives 100%, we try truthfully but we tend to fail...

Thank you for this wonderful overview. One question, How does allegorizing the book of Joshua (for example) now remove the difficulty of worshipping the God depicted there if these things really happened? I assume you mean that we read it as allegory rather than it was written as allegory. Doesn't accepting this means of destruction as God-ordained punishment also become justification for annihilating "evil" people since then and today? Fatwa- style.

My own cynical observation is that the same people who squeal over the “genocidal” passages of the Bible are perfectly fine with legalized abortion. And see no contradiction there 🤨

Doubt my thoughts will ever get read or discussed. That said, I must respond to Bishop Barron’s Sunday sermon. I am a huge fan of the Bishop, as are my two young local priests. The Bishop used the word attack and violence and imperialism when we, as a follower of Christ, proclaim the only way to the Father is through Christ. We are called to respect and listen to everyone of God’s creatures, regardless of the religion chosen. The Bishop mentioned, if their conscience was followed, then in fact eternal life “may” still be attained without a belief in Christ. To me this idea waters down the core promise from Christ himself. “No one can come to the father except through me”. Ten of thousands around the world are being killed each year because they refuse to acquiesce to a philosophy of getting along. A kind of “I’m ok - you ok” approach to salvation. Just be good and thoughtful and eternal life is yours.. The Bishop is one of the brightest people I have ever followed. No doubt he could poke enormous holes in my take on this. I believe Jesus is divine. I believe God sent Him. I take Him at His word. When He calls me home I do not what Him to say I was on the right track but missed the most important point to His message. I want Him to say “David, I know you - come, let us meet the Father”. Bless to anyone who might read this.

A text without a con-text/interpretation is like a fish out of water

The Bible works on different levels. In the Torah, the Jewish ppl were asking Moses for laws that directly governed their cultural and socio-economic time period's state of affairs. They weren't asking Moses for God's universal truths or for laws that would carry their children's children into the future and/or the evolutions of future civil society. So, that is what was given unto them. The secondary benefit of showing this establishing doctrine is our current reference for how, why, and what purpose Jesus came to us; it illuminated the path we are to traverse as a "body"; as a community and Church and shed light on what types of questions we should be poising before God so that we stay in His will as we continue forward in our micro and macro evolutions with Him. The Old Testament helped to solidify Christ's authority to guide us and take us in under his cross. The New Testiment gives us examples for how we do that. Those example are also seen in the foreshadowing stories that are hidden in the Old Testiment (this is why I only use the KJV (variant spellings have purpose, progressions of passages have meaning, reiterations have information not at once seen, ect)). The world continues to be violent, God continues to be the same, the Church is supposed to evolve and adapt in Love as new problems arise and change our culture- which she's not doing. Currently, the Church is stuck in old rules and laws like the Old Testament Jews were stuck.

Whatever has happened to the teaching of St Thomas Aquinas in our modern Catholic faith?

thank you

Can you please do an episode on Vladimir Solovyov, the russian religious philosopher, Martin Buber or Johannes Eckhart?

I would like the videos writing in Spanish ! I love homilias

I like the third approach BUT it doesn’t seem to be based on any literal reading, which wouldn’t make sense of the stories in their original context. Surely, the original authors weren’t intending to write these accounts as mere allegories. All of scripture can be read through a legitimate allegorical sense; but it is based on the original literal. I like the first tool better; divine pedagogy.

Is the translation of "YHWH" "I am who I am" or is it "I am who am."?

Illuminating.

Mother Angelica always said how beautiful the documents were from Vatican ll...and I whole heartedly trust her opinion. Though I do believe that there were wrongs done to the Mass, that someone should have stopped. It seems that no one was speaking up, and still aren't! I can see the language barrier between the Latin and English...but stop there! We need to pray that reverence is brought back to the Mass. We all need it for proper worship, and more importantly, God deserves it! ⚘️