I just realized this is a really clever way to set up an encounter by undertale's rules where asgore wins-- Clover can only reach here by being level 1, so they don't have a raw stat advantage and like a usual first time level 1 player will probably die, and they have no pie from toriel to lower stats nor can they claim 100% innocence like frisk since they killed ceroba, so that stat down is off the table Asgore doesn't have to confront the reality of finally committing to the seventh soul and breaking the barrier so he's willing enough to pull out unblockable attacks. The deck is already heavily stacked against them, so flowey just doesn't even bother to wait it out and won't reload for them
@@sheogorath6834I personally doubt that is something he can do. Can’t deny it is a cool spectacle but doesn’t feel quite right for his narrative niche.
@@sheogorath6834him breaking the mercy button is a way to show he can't be spared at all, he denied it. However he shouldn't be able to break others as those acts can't completely be stopped.
i mean in this specific instance starlo did just lose his best friend since childhood, i dont think clover killing ceroba is unjustified but also starlo being upset and angry is completely understandable. i doubt hes thinking about the moral reasonings while hes grieving her
I like Martlet reaction to Ceroba’s death, It’s kinda nice to actually see a character that takes the protagonist side for once to say “Hol up, it was self defense." Like Ceroba has been attempting to experiment on Clover this whole time. And, had Martlet been blasted when she’s in the air, she would’ve fell down from the tower, killing both her and Clover. If the fall didn’t kill them, they could’ve been crippled. I wished that the game allow the protagonist to resent some characters in the Pacifist route instead of making us sing around the campfire with everyone, or make those characters work more to redeem themselves. You know, accountability, rehabilitation and justice and what not. Though to be honest this is also an irk I have in the original Undertale where we have to "love" everyone even though they tried to murder Frisk.
Yeah what marlet said was something I been saying since I first play undertale. I mean. There definitely times like the Undyne fight where frisk killing was self defense. Also with case of ceroba, I can image with the adrenaline and panicking of the ceroba fight, clover shoot ceroba when give the chance
Ok but ceroba did it for her dying child. Decibat and el balidor didn’t mean to kill you Dalv thought you were a hallucination Martlet only attacked cause it’s her job. And she didn’t even want to kill Starlow did it because his judgement was flawed. But he did have the worst reason
Also at that stage it wasn’t self defense. Clover attacking ceroba at the end of all the phases is self defense. If someone is already defeated and cannot attack you any longer and you shoot them, that’s no longer self defense
Also the first 2 bosses never tried to kill frisk. For undyne she’s doing it to free a whole race. She also believes humans bad cause of what she learned about them For mettaton he’s not directly trying to kill frisk. So if you entertain monsterkind he’s going to let you off the hook.
@@gamercentral2417such excuses won't work in a court, attempted murder is an attempted murder no matter the reasons behind it, they can only kinda justify you, but they cannot free you from the consequences. And martlet's excuse of it being her job is basically how Nazi soldiers justified their atrocities (they were just following orders)
Undertale characters forget they're adults talking to a child more often than a discord moderator. Like... starlo you tried to shoot a random child to death in the pacifist route for literally 0 reason whatsoever.
@@misterboxhead3045 nope, he's talking about the time when he got clover in lasso and genuienly tried to kill him thinking it will make everyone like him again. He was ready to take someones life for something less than even ceroba.
@@williamdaniels1662yep, cuz other than Frisk (cuz Determination characterized as the red soul) only Flowey can use save states due to him having Chara’s soul in him (also red soul).
@@ShadowCatGaming26 Chara's soul no longer exists, they mention the red soul being the player's. Flowey saves and resets because he's had determination artificially injected into him, and he's not a monster anymore, he's a flower, so his body can handle far more of it than monsters, making him the default one to control the save file
@@ShadowCatGaming26actually that’s false. In some dialogs(if you die and use talk from act) against asgore he might say that he knows he has already killed you but you reset after that. He seems to be aware that humans can reset. Remember: Flowey didn’t exist yet, he was born after determination was put on his bed of flowers
consider this: Clover does not remember resets, they have also never killed a monster in this run, and Ceroba knocks out Martlet and Starlo prior to this fight, Clover does not know that monsters turn to dust upon death, so it's possible that the reason Clover gains no EXP was because they believed Ceroba killed Martlet and Starlo and thus killing her was "justified"
It's actually just retribution. Ceroba was wife to a man that had killed a child and she had herself experimented on a human soul and recklessly killed her daughter. On top of that she had attacked and hurt, probably killed, two friends of Clover that did nothing to provoke her nor where asking to fight. Capital punishment was just.
It's actually kinda implied that Clover can remember vague bits between resets, as seen if you finish two neutral runs in a row. Even basic monsters in ut could recall some info from past saves and they don't have determination.
@@funninoriginal6054 That doesn't confirm that Clover in a pacifist run remembers how monsters die via dust. Undertale is kind of pick and choosey in characters remembering resets- like Papyrus in the game can feel like he's met Frisk before, but not any particular event associated with them in a previous reset. So therefore I agree with op
After checking. I've found that during asgores onslaught, you're invincible until the second giant flamewave attack. Then, soon after the first unavoidable circle he'll do two more unavoidable circles. Then he'll sweep the right side of the screen, and then the left (You'll be to slow to move out of the way at this point, and youll die)
When you think about it, Asgore being a hopeless boss fight makes total sense. In Undertale, even holding back, he does five damage with each hit while you have twenty HP. Now, in Undertale you can talk to Asgore to weaken his fighting resolve and decrease his stats, but only if you’ve never killed a single monster; otherwise, you can’t bring yourself to contest Asgore taking a life to escape the underground when you’ve done the same. And the only way Clover can even get to Asgore is by killing Ceroba. Couple that with the physical and mental exhaustion that the battle against Ceroba took on them, they never had a chance. Poor Clover’s fate was sealed the second they stepped into the throne room, and they probably knew that.
Have you though that Clover didn't wanna fight at all? In True Pacifist he got some time to think it through tho, and Ceroba, that took his soul. But here he wasn't even fighting back! Honestly, this one was my first ending, and i didn't even understand at first that he intentionally lost to Asgore.
@@user-qb1si9od5r Yep. That’s certainly a plausible option, as is the lack of a fight button just serving as an abstraction to how ineffective resistance truly was. Could be a bit of both, with Clover realizing midway through that the truly just action would be to surrender their soul then and there…. Not like they had a choice with a toy pistol and a worn out hat against a fully armored boss monster who had not yet fallen out of his prime in grief.
@@meowmew- i think, clover is strong enough to bear asgore. HAVE YOU SEEN THAT CEROBA GIRL? SHE IS BUSTED! NERF HER! But yeah, he exhausted himself a lot for sure. And yeah, i think with a gun you have much more chances rather than with a knife, but frisk could load and this wasn't possible to beat for Asgore.
@@meowmew- wait wait! You also forgot that Starlo gave him a real gun, which SOMEHOW dealt 0 damage to Ceroba, but still, i think, he could kill Asgore.
put some respect on asgore. he's holding back immensely while you fight him in undertale and even then he's the most formidable foe in a pacifist run. he loathes himself for what he's done, his resolve is shaken simply by talking to him and he'll always get you down to 1 hp before actually dealing the finishing blow, and even then he's tough. even flowey with his infinite resets who killed everyone in the underground including _sans_ claims he never could have gotten past asgore without frisk's help, and undyne says she could never land a hit on him when she had challenged him in the past implying he could even dodge if he felt so inclined. i just wish he got a proper battle in ut genocide so he wouldn't be constantly lowballed by the community
She asked for it. Quite literally. Starlo wanted a better end for her, and now he's a broken man. Martlet stood up for Clover, knowing they were in the right, yet now she knows her only remaining true friend is dead. And Clover now bears the weight of killing a once loving and compassionate mother who lost it all, falling into a state of depression. It's a no-win situation for anyone.
@@misterboxhead3045 considering these exact circumstances of dealing with a mother who just tried to kill a child was very likely to of lost 2 friends one she had since childhood has a dead husband and a very likely currently suffering or dead daughter it’s at least reasonable to do it as a mercy kill Course it’s not like clover would actually know that things would ultimately turn up mostly ok for Ceroba sparing her is faith that her Friends will forgive her and she’ll end up better but also risking the chances of not being forgiven and that she ends up even deeper in her pit of despair Killing her guarantees her out of that pit is it the right thing? No of course not but it’s at least reasonable I’m this situation it’s not like she didn’t try to make peace with her situation and it’s not like clover knew sparing her would’ve lead her to healing I’m just saying Starlo might’ve at least taken back the line about not firing the bullet if he knew clover was just trying to grant her mercy he’d still be pissed absolutely but there’s at least a silver lining of clover a child who doesn’t know the correct answer to every situation killed a miserable woman so she wouldn’t have to suffer
@@ProbablyAlmond you’re saying that as if Starlo would even considering believing Clover there. Starlo wasn’t awake when Ceroba was pretty much pouring her heart about how terrible she was and how she no longer cares about her life. For all he knew, this whole thing happened because Ceroba was just massively confused about what she wanted to and needed help. There’s no reason for him to believe Clover there, unfortunately. If anything, it’d probably just make it worse.
I'd say the 0 EXP is a similar situation to how Asgore and Flowey both give 0 EXP in Undertale. EXP is a quantifier of how distanced you are with killing - how easy you find it to ignore the "why" and just end your opponent's life. In these three battles, the extenuating circumstances involved do not cause the killing party to be distanced from their actions; they have every reason and opportunity to do it - have been asked to do it - and still feel regret afterward.
I was literally about to say something pretty much the same! EXP, as Sans put it, is a way of "quantifying the pain you've inflicted on others". Literally, that could mean physical pain, as customary when killing or hurting someone. But if you're killing someone as a mercy, such as the case with Ceroba, perhaps the idea that they aren't in pain when you kill them - and instead are relieved - means you don't gain any EXP. I love that Yellow messes with the idea a lot more, and could even been taken into account by Clover's SOUL being "Justice" and he saw it as the just option.
You never kill asgore, it's always either flowey or himself that finished the job And flowey doesn't give exp because he's not a monster, nor does he have a soul so I don't think the exp lv system takes him into account as he's an anomaly
@Heliophanus Well no, that would imply that every monster from undyne to whimsom has killed people, and that's just not true The most likely reason for flowey not providing exp is because of him not being human or monster and being without a soul
I think they didn't get EXP because what they did was just. And since that's what their soul stands for, it wasn't seen as them deliberately inflicting pain onto others.
@yorugua4377 Asgore doesn't give experience on a Genocide route in regular Undertale, though. It's definitely part of the narrative. LV is Level of Violence, but it's not necessarily an act of pure malice to kill her in this ending. It shouldn't raise your LV or award EXP.
@theseer4439 he doesn't give EXP if you kill him on a neutral route either. You can argue that's floweys fault, but the point is that it's a narrative device and not meant to be superliteral anyway
I am not defending Starlo or making excuses for the way he treats Clover like complete trash if they kill Ceroba as that was still very much unjustified, but at the same time I can kinda see why he'd be so angry. Ceroba is someone he's been close friends with ever since they were kids. They grew up together and were a big part of each other's lives, to the point Starlo once upon a time had romantic feelings for her but never got to follow through on them. Also, up till now, Clover had managed to resolve almost every conflict peacefully, including the fight with Starlo where he was basically trying to do exactly what Ceroba was doing, and yet Clover let him live despite having every reason to gun him down. My guess is Starlo felt betrayed as he likely thought Clover would find a way to stop Ceroba non-lethally(granted, that shouldn't have been Clover's responsibility but I digress) and then they could all talk her down, like they did with him, but instead, Clover executed her. In his mind he's probably thinking "wait, so when I try to take your Soul for my own selfish purposes, I get to live? But when Ceroba wants your Soul just so she can save her daughter that means she deserves death? What made her so undeserving of mercy?! You realize on the off chance Kanako is still alive, you just deprived her of her mother?!" Granted, Starlo is clearly letting emotions cloud his judgement in this moment, which makes sense as he wasn't awake to see just how insane Ceroba was really acting plus he's just lost one of his dearest friends to somebody he thought he could trust. (and whom he's known for not even a fraction of the time he's known Ceroba) I highly doubt many of us would be thinking straight in such a situation, but he's still a man capable of owning up to when he's wrong so I'd like to think once he's had a chance to clear his mind and vent all his emotions he would realize the way he treated Clover was downright cruel...it's just too bad he won't get that chance to apologize.
You forget one thing. Clover didn't kill Ceroba in self-defense. Clover *executed* her after she had been rendered incapable of fighting. She was no longer a threat.
@@c.c5101 Or Martlet just tells him, then we see her resigning from the royal guard before training her two skeletal replacements who just moved in and share a lot of similarities with her personality. She also asks the shorter one to look out for the next human, but he says he was gonna do it anyway because he already made that promise to someone else. He also suggests since she likes making things, she should start her own business. Martlet takes this into consideration and flies off
@@ninjawiz7932 i there is one unavoidable circle attack to force you to get hit and slow down after some time, but i survived for like 2 song loops, so i think theoretically you can survive forever (just with a slowed down soul)
It's kind of eerie that asgore invented the handbook as a way to make his guards kill the fallen humans so he doesn't have to. I wonder if he still gains LV when it happens though.
After playing the game multiple times, I can say that the only truly innocent and mature person in this game is Martlet (and Toriel maybe but she barely appeared), glad she picked our side.
At first when I was fighting with her, I said "maybe I'll forgive her, just maybe" but when I saw that she used her daughter as an experiment, in addition to the fact that at that very moment she was trying to kill Clover for her convenience, I started to analyze the situation and I realized that true justice was to kill her.
So basically Clover felt too guilty to fight back? Actually, I think it would've been cool if Asgore just went all out and broke the mercy _and_ fight buttons. Would explain how every other human died despite having the ability to save and reload.
@@edencaraballo1858 Not really, the humans did have the power of save but Asgore was too hard to beat and the evidence: 1) Toriel talks about when humans fall down, she gets a strange feeling that she knew them 2) If you died and talk to Asgore, he would nod like he knew that Frisk can rewind time. 3) Flowey has never lost the power over the timeline until Frisk fell down.
@@Joe98912 1: That could be chalked up to flowey resetting instead of the humans especially since in the neutral ending, flowey talks about having to reset over and over again because clover kept dying before the events of the game take place. 2: Flowey talks about how he thought he was the only one who could save and reload until frisk came along and took it from him, indicating that none of the other humans could save or reload 3: Yes that is what I meant
Wow, I had no idea they made a whole ending for this. The "I'm sorry" is a very nice callback to the timeline where you kill Starlo on Neutral, where unlike Starlo, Ceroba completely fails to understand what you've done if you say "I'm sorry" and goes looking for him. And "You should go" is a freaking powerfully tragic line, and geez, poor Martlet just looking back at Clover. I can't believe they managed to make this even rougher than the "super" pacifist ending. Still headcanoning that the kids get revived after true pacifist in Undertale. *inhales copium*
with the fate of the six humans following the ending having been ambiguous for years already, i've kind of just headcanoned the same. i still believe these kids deserve a future of their own, their lives ended too soon
@conic2721 they haven't, actually. It's mentioned that until a human's soul shatters, the bodies dont decay. By that logic, since the souls were preserved, then sent back, not to mention the coffins being open, it's very likely they could've easily just come back to life.
I now HC that all the humans live in around the same few houses, and after TP in the original Undertale, Frisk asks if the rest of the humans want to live with them, and they agree to live with Frisk.
This hurts so bad 'cause Starlo is usually so nice and sweet and loves Clover so much in Pacifist but them killing Ceroba changes that INSTANTLY. He's so cold and hurt here and even says he wishes he would have killed you..... plus this ending NOT having any kind of hug between the characters...
I think this ending is the closest of true ending (undertale lore accurate one). Clover's ideals are justice, not kindness. That's why they didn't get exp from killing ceroba (she wanted it, they didn't want to inflict pain to ceroba), so it's simply justice. Not killing ceroba would be more of a kindness thing. What I mean is that justice isn't forcefully related to pacifism. They aren't the same thing and in some case death is the best option (in ceroba's one for example). + Asgore having to kill another child sounds more undertale like. A child giving off their soul themself would mentionned in undertale if it wasn't the case. Very nice ending and respect of the source material. Love this game.
“Justice” is subjective and varies from person to person. Killing ceroba could be seen as something that’s injustice or Justice based on the person. I think the pacifist ending is better for clover’s character, their soul doesn’t have to be kindnesses for that ending to work. Just a different interpretation of what’s right, or “just.”
" A child giving off their soul themself would mentionned in undertale if it wasn't the case." We don't saw any of the monsters that knew (except Asgore, if they even tell him) in Undertale. So, the only one who could have talked about it is Flowey. And i don't see why he would. Not like the game is canon anyways. Also, for the traits parts, you know that just because Clover trait is "Justice" doesn't mean that they can't have kindness or whatever else, right...?
@@sheogorath6834 ikr, but logically justice is dominant over kindness, because their soul is yellow. Colors have meaning you know what I mean. The orange soul kid would be more likely to fight or face danger than a kid with another color of soul for example
@@icewalker1185 Soul traits don't mean shit. That just some random things that monsters observed about the personality of the 6 humans. Just because their "trait" is "Justice" doesn't mean they will always be just. And Justice is a concept that is not the same for everyone anyways.
@@skell6134 Honestly I wonder how Asgore would react in the timeline where Clover gives up their soul williingly? I imagine it would shake him up, and play a role in why he's hesitant to kill Frisk.
So what I got from the endings is: Neutral: Just a very neutral ending. Nothing is accomplished, you just go back to the beggining and in the end nothing matters. Genocide Ending: The Bad Ending for the Underground, but The Good Ending for Clover. Their mission was partially completed upon freeing the human SOULs from their cages and set into the surface, at the cost of hundreds of lives from the Underground. The Pacifist Ending A (Spared Ceroba): Both pacifists endings are canon since Clover's SOUL is collected in both, so I'm not calling either (but neither) the True Ending. This one is specially awful, because Clover shows that he was truly a pure soul who sacrificed themselves upon seeing the situation of the Underground. The Pacifist Ending B (Killed Ceroba): Killing Ceroba makes for an even sadder ending: You don't get to choose your death, you have to face the SOULs of every human that you were searching for and you have to abandon Starlo and Martlet. By far the worst ending.
@@nuttynutsnutstacheGenocide is actually bearable because everyone (even Flowey) just becomes a bitch at that point. The run is even constructed in such a way that a lot of Monsters look unreasonable and since no one in this game is completely innocent,you have a pretty good justification (in Clovers position) for why you'd want to kill them.
14:46 "Rest well, young one" asgore how tf is clover supposed to rest well stuck and bored inside of that cramped jar for eternity? And even then your plan is to absorb them all forcing them to be in your body basically forever as you destroy humanity, fuck you mean you daft old king?
@@miniwhiffy3465 To be homest, it would make sense for them to be. Considering the genocide ending how they move with clover on their own, how in undertale they also just move. And in neither of those situations are they absorbed. In the geno ending, its more obvious because clover id a human and humans cant absorb human souls. Kinda humanises them more too.
This ending oddly works, because Clover is most likely exhausted from the Ceroba fight so he willingly lets himself lose and get captured, or im just looking too deep. Asgore is even still accurate to how he is with the whole "Dont want to do this but have to do this" thing.
Also with them shaking before drawing out the revolver, you have to imagine that things really do get real with Clover realizing that this is him. This is the one who killed all the other humans and the reason they originally came here - and in his presence, realizing that there's no way they can defeat him. That they are about to die and there's nothing they can do about it. Where as strong and powerful as Ceroba was, Asgore is something else entirely. Even Flowey admits in the OG Game that there was no way he could've gotten past Asgore without Frisk's help - which really tells you everything you need to know.
@@DarkDashV6 asgore didnt even go all out in the fight with frisk, he choose to tank the attacks instead and was too depress at that time. A lv 19 frisk was struggling against sans a judge and lazy bone.If asgore go all out then there is no way frisk can get past him
As much as the true pacifist is the best ending, clover was still in the right here, imagine being a child here fighting this woman who was trying to kill you (and almost killed your friends) with all her power, it was simply self defense, + clover has spared everyone along the path so it mustve been for good reason.
Plus ceroba encouraged clover to pull the trigger and thanked them too when they did it. Ofc she wasn’t in the right state of mind but in that moment it made sense to her
Not really, context needs to be taken into account, ceroba is a broken woman who has lost her entire family and has the burden of saving monsterkind on her shoulders which was originally Chujin’s idea, she never believed in it until he died. Also ceroba has not yet atoned for her crimes, killing her before she could redeem herself is letting her off easy and therefore not justice
I like this ending the best, it fits most with Undertale as a true prequel, the true ending is great for the story this game wants to tell and the genocide/failed pacifist are great in funneling player down the correct route but THIS is as close to what would be considered canon to Undertale as possible. Happy they included this even if most people won't see it
It also makes more sense lorewise since here asgore could have actually put clover to rest while in the true ending he is just left to die by flowey in a random spot after willingly giving his soul
@@NoymoHDthere's coffins for all of the humans, so there's a concerted effort in recovering human bodies, and it's not like 3 monsters and 1 flowey didn't know where clover died at
That explains why Flowey says no matter how hard he tried he just couldn't get the souls, because Asgore literally had undodgeable attacks and Flowey kept dying
So that's how you fight Asgore without initiating the Genocide Route. I always wondered where "Final Encounter" played. AKA the variant of "ASGORE" found in the OST.
This ending makes alittle more sense, bcuz Asgore actually kills you and puts your soul into the jar thing, meanwhile in the true pacifist ceroba just convieniently has that jar on her and clover is just like: oh you want my soul? Here you go! *fucking dies*
Yeah thats what I'm saying. Sure the whole gun and hat thing makes sense but how tf do u explain how ceroba get those jars? Cuz its not like everyone has one. and she just wants a soul so if she got it from asgore why didnt she just take a soul from there??? And how come asgore let her get that jar.
you know clover has his own character right? his soul is..justice. He realized the horrible things that had been done to the monsters underground and the fact the humans were already dead and there was no way to bring them back. The best course of action was genuinely just..sacrificing themselves for a better future. that is justice.
@@YourUltimateStarGazer dude. YOU LITERALLY NEED TO PUT ATTENTION ONTO THE GAME. Cereboa had that in the first place to CAPTURE YOUR SOUL EARLIER. REMEMBER SHE WAS LURING YOU OUT DURING THE FACTORY??
he says "When you kill someone, your EXP increases" in his monologue the feature of gaining exp when bringing a monster to low hp and then sparing them was removed after the demo edit: napstablook logic removed bc someone corrected me (why do they remove a stat that doesn't exist)
@@vessstuff I feel like that’s more of just a generalization sans is making than the more literal “quantifying the pain you’ve inflicted on others.” Hers is a special case where she’s pleading for it. It’s kind of blurry what’s “killing” versus her giving up on life
@@vessstuffI mean, if you kill flowey you don't gain any exp. You also don't get any if you kill asgore (Tho Asgore gets killed by flowey, so tecnically I don't know how would that count) however the fact that in the original undertale you don't get exp from killing flowey is strange.
So... Considering there are technically two Pacifist endings Would we call this one the False Pacifist route since you need to go pacifist all the way until you kill Ceroba at the very end, and the sparing Ceroba route the True Pacifist route since you actually go through with a full pacifist run?
@@johndwolynetz6495 true pacifist ending is the real one, i think. Mostly because of the hat and a gun that later was picked up by cat girl and allegator girl in a garbage pile to sell later for frisk. And also, you can see that Clover helps frisk in the end with Flowey.
@@charlieking7600I just said False Pacifist since this route requires going pacifist all the way until you go back on it and kill Ceroba at the very end. ^^"
Honestly, as cool as this ending is, the way I'd prefer for it to end is with Star killing Clover and taking the soul to Asgore. Star's fatal flaw in genocide is shown to be his inability to make a stand when it really counts, and I think it would be cool to see him overcome that in avenging his friend. Imagine Star drawing and shooting before there's even a chance to enter a battle, with Clover just dead on the spot for what they did. Proper western-duel style.
I feel like that goes against his character. His arc was also about needing to mature and grow out of his sort of childish view of everything. Being unable to admit that you idealised your friend, and unable to admit that she was the bad guy shows that he hasn't actually grown or matured as much as we think at this point.
@@alemonyoyo69420 That already is the case with his monologue, except at least it genuinely feels like he hates you, rather than not seeking vengeance because "it'd spell trouble" for him. That makes him sound far less mature than anything else in the game. "Trouble" shouldn't be too big of a deal when his best friend is dead, it just felt like they wanted a reason for him to just leave. It's not a terrible reason, but if we're talking about going against his arc, there's nothing that goes more against it than that.
True because the alternatives are the human being a genocidal maniac or a mega pacifist, the human is more normal (and justified) if they act like this
@@chezux979 Clover sacrificed himself either way, so both endings are accurate. He, as a justice soul owner, realized, that this is the most just thing to do.
@@neloku1 If you're referrecing that one comment I'm thinking of, Toby said that Undertale tweets are noncanon (his Deltarune twitter stuff probably counts still) so unless you have another source at hand you're probably better off not saying stuff like this as if it was truth or implied ot be truth when it's not, unless you have another non-twitter source at hand atleast.
@@m8.614 * You say to ASGORE that he's killed you once before. * He nods sadly. Totally not Asgore knowing about human save points and resets. Personal experience wins.
Apparently it loops until you die from taking enough damage. You CAN dodge, but the code is rigged for Asgore to win eventually. I bet some players could make records of surviving for the longest period at this point though.
There's something really sad about Asgore's last words before the battle is initiated. Just him saying "I will make this quick. No need to worry." - where he doesn't want to do this, and doesn't want the human to suffer no matter the circumstances that put them underground in the first place.
Seeing Starlo an Ceroba as such close companions... gosh this scene hurts when you have to pull the trigger. I couldn't do it. She didn't deserve this.
@@ferro6854 True. It's weird too, unlike Asgore, it's not like she can actually, remotely blame Clover -- it wasn't humans that hurt Ceroba's family. The family hurt itself.
@@iug5672 Tbf she dosen't blame Clover at all. It's even shown multiple times throught the battle, like at around 3:50 when she starts to cry before trying to hit you with that unavoidable attack. Her main deal is that it's either the life of this sweet but ultimately random kid she met only a few hours ago or the life of her very much in coma daughter who may end up dying if action isn't taken.
As cool of an ending as this is, I think it's silly that some people quickly jump to it being the canon ending. With the hat ending up in the trash dump at the end kf true pacifist (and likely being found by Bratty/Catty, hence why they sell it in UT) Yes, killing Ceroba could be seen as justice, but justice is also defined by the individual, their moral code. While Clover didn't have the determination to end the cycle of humans falling down and break the barrier peacefully His sense of JUSTICE caused him to sacrifice himself for the greater good of monsterkind At least, thats how I interpreted the true pacifist ending
Random thing, but I love how the story sticks to Clover prioritizing justice over everything. They draw their weapon on Asgore when he shows them that he killed five humans (they literally tremble with rage!), they don’t seem to regret killing Ceroba to the point of being very distressed (although they do express SOME regret), and in the genocide route, their LV literally grows higher out of sheer will when Axis tells them he was programmed to kill a human. I love that they have so much character, honestly; I love them more than any of Undertale/Deltarune’s protagonists.
I think Ceroba doesnt give Exp because it wasnt considered Violence on Clover's part, she wanted to be dead so Clover granted her wish plus he didnt want to fight either
Looking at it. I feel like this might be the “canon” ending. It has the best explanation on what happened to everyone. Ceroba is dead, and starlo/ martlet likely went into self inflicted hiding or solitude.
"What did she do to deserve this" Bro, she tried to kill a child and she nearly killed Martlet too did you see how close to falling off that tower she was? Like, I didn't want to kill her (hence why I'm watching this instead of playing it) but she didn't *not* deserve it. Plus she literally asked for it and, even if she didn't, for all he knows Clover killed her in self defense.
@@Omega_Sans12345 dude can fight for ages bro, i dont think there is even a way to make him tired. He didnt even go all out against frisk. A sans that is too tired and was asleep react fast enough to dodge attack, i think asgore can do the same he is the strongest monster after all
@@watertightrobbery yea but asgore is the monster who survive the war so expect him to be stronger and much more experience than you. You will eventually out of food and can't dodge forever but asgore on the other hand is strong enough to dodge until you die. You will win eventually by learning his pattern though but don't forget after stab down he will used the six souls. Yea if asgore is serious then you are nothing
I like the fact that clover lose to asgore, i mean, in all undertale they put asgore like the most danger monster but frisk wins because them got the time power, so them only get back knowing how to dodge and there win. But clover and the rest depends in flowey and we all know that flowey plans is to asgore collect souls to then he stole them, that's why he is too good with us a diference to frisk who he probably know frisk got the Time power thing.
for everyone wondering why cereba doesn't give any exp, quote from the wiki "What's EXP? It's an acronym. It stands for "execution points." A way of quantifying the pain you have inflicted on others." Ceroba wants to die, she sees herself as a failure and death as a relief and that means you don't inflict any pain onto her and thus she gives no exp
To me, this is the canon ending. Clover is the Justice soul, and given the prior context, what happens right before the Ceroba fight and what Martlet says afterward, Clover killing Ceroba is just, even if it resulted in someone else dying. Also Asgore killing the 6 previous humans just fits better in the lore of actual Undertale, mostly because of how much he delays the fight and how shocked he is when you initially down him.
I think the pacifist ending fits more with clover’s character in this game, even if this ending is a bit more canon to undertale. Clover visibly regrets killing her, and if you spare her they give her a hug.
i love how everybody is talking about how clover doesn't fight back but nobody is talking about the fact that you can't even see asgore during this, wonder why that is
Maybe i am heartless, but i really wished for Ceroba to die while i was fighting her, she was so unfair! The only thing stopping me was a true pacifist ending..
her first phase is rough, but imo she actually becomes easier once she puts on the mask (lol) cause you get access to ACTs that give you free healing, defense, and soul speed if desired
I actually feel like Ceroba was the most balanced out of every boss battle, since I didn't die to her once on my first blind playthrough, and the attacks are quite self explanatory and give warning. I wish the shield mechanic was a little more obvious, since it took me quite a few turns to realise that the battle wasn't one you could just wait out
I had the misfortune of not having enough G to buy the deltarune patch before being locked into her battle - took me 3 gruelling hours when she did 8 damage every hit
Only now learned that this ending exited and DAMN, might be my favorite now. Both because I kinda hated how clover just sacrificed themselves, and because we get more Martlet in this one, who's my fav character and also because I HATE CEROBA HAHAHAH DIE
I just realise something. Asgore no win encounter happens without his sprite in fight. He did not use his trident attack or "Mercy breaker" once at all. That make me remember... In Undertale Player can enter battle without sprites. It happen two times. First, at bridges in Waterfall there Undyne use her spears to kill Frisk. Second at Hotland/CORE with lazers. Also fun fact. In this battle we do not fight any monster. They simply not present or out of reach. Get it? Asgore wasn't present at this battle. *He did not want to been seen*. I interpret it as such: then Asgore saw Clover reaction at Soul's, and their "tense" look he gets guilty and ashamed, as been accused upon his crimes (which is true). So, he simply decide to not fight them in face to face since he might have no moral strength left to kill Clover and take their soul. That *heartbreaking*
I think that the true ending should have been a mix of obth this and sparong Ceroba. Could go lile this: Sparing Ceroba should end with Clover going to Asgore too, but this time you are joined by not only Martlet, vut Starlo and Ceroba too. Instead of killing themselves like an idiot, Clover loses against Asgore, but the others see it and are there for them on his last moments. The the credits go as usual in the perfect pacifist ending. (Sorry for the long text)
Starlo’s morals are so whack to me, so he says he can’t shoot you on genocide, but fights you just for breaking up his posse and not killing anybody? And here, he is all P-offed that you killed ceroba who he legit seemed to be extremely mad about her earlier, like she straight up wanted to kill clover for her own needs (chujin and kanako) AND nearly could’ve killed him and martlet! I swear, I would’ve been the one like “I shouldn’t have hesitated to shoot that last bullet” 💀
Starlo is actually in love with Ceroba - has been since they were kids. When she married Chujin, he locked himself in his room for days. The whole Wild East thing was just his way of distracting Ceroba from her woes. He basically built his life around her. And Clover shot her in the head.
I love the detail of Clover getting shaken by seeing the five souls. One might imply it's sheer terror, but for me, that were the five children she was searching for when she arrived. It also happens with Genocide Axis, when he told as he was forced to kill one of them. The LOVE, Level of Violence, increased considerably, even when the fight didn't finish. That is because LOVE it's how prone you become to stay aloof from people and your easiness to kill them. So that's why it turns so tense all of a sudden.
It looks like Clover could kill Asgore because he pointed at him his gun,but then felt that the rifht thing to do for the justice is giving his soul this is the most similar finale to undertale lore in my opinion,i find that he killing Ceroba was a good part because she asked for it + it was selfdefence + Clover still had to use that gun to bring justice even if he felt guilty,Starlo's reaction to Ceroba's death is acceptable but in my opinion he should have understood that it wasn't all Clover's fault
I'm fairly certain that the asgore fight loops infinitely edit: I was wrong; it's ~12 attacks before he pulls out an undodgable attack. After that your soul starts crumbling and slowing
Because you will always get hit by the unhittable attacks and then, after enough hits, your movement slows enough to make dodging attacks impossible, yeah it's the same every time.
Starlo's final line hits similar to Alphys's in the Alphys ending. While it might not have the same background regarding it, it really goes to show.. Some might find your actions heroic or just, but for others, you just shot a wound that won't heal
7:31 For why Ceroba does it, think about what LOVE and EXP mean. The more you kill, the less it hurts. Clover is not killing Ceroba for the sake of taking a life in this case, Clover's killing Ceroba as he's giving her what she wants (Ceroba even says thank you before Clover pulls the trigger), and Clover most likely regrets the fact he did so.
I AM PISSED THAT ASGORE IS LIKE "oh sorry that you have to die and all" BUT HE ISNT, YOU LITERALLY SEE HIS SLY SMILE OH I AM SO DOIN PACIFIST TILL ASGORE ... wait a second
I would’ve liked it if you got one chance at an Asgore fight and if you happened to win you’d get to fight the neutral route final boss and Flowey would just reset your very non canon actions. A lot of effort though for something almost no one is going to do so I get why they didn’t bother.
@@funninoriginal6054 his goal is to get the human souls. If Clover takes them all that’s a colossal failure. Or maybe asgore tries to absorb them and Flowey has to reset before he loses control? You could spin it any number of ways.
@@Ballistic477 it could just be they didn't know how to react because they were shaking ans were in the heat of the moment, this is actually just the pacifist run afterall but they end up killing ceroba instead of sparing her, and in the pacifist ending they give their soul away themselves without a fight, they did the same but this time but in a different way.
I mean the kill wasn't bloodthirst and you only gave her what she asked for. Gaining execution points doesn't seem correct, i think that's why she gives no exp.
EVERYONES BEEN TRYING TO KILL CLOVER AND WHEN HE FINALLY DEFENDS HIMSELF HES IN THE WRONG HE GOT BETRAYED BY THE WHOLE WILD WEST GANG EVERYONE HAS TRIED TO KILL HIM MAYBE GET GOT TIRED OF EVERYONE BEATING ON HIM💀
Uh...at this point when Clover is about to kill Ceroba...it's when she's giving up and asking you to end her. If the player attacked her during the fight, then it would be self defense.
ON GOD- this is the one thing that REALLY annoys me about this game. the ten year old is expected to be far more mature as literal adults try to kill them and if they so much as attack back they’re in the wrong. like HUH??? i love starlo, but this ending is so ridiculous i have to block it from my mind when i think about it
I honestly think that Clover killing Ceroba wasn’t in the name of justice or self defense, but instead being in the name of mercy. She was suffering horribly from the trauma and bad memories of her circumstances, and though keeping her alive would’ve been the best outcome in the long run, ending her suffering still came from good intentions on Clover’s part.
I really like how in comparison to killing Asgore in UT where he clearly has done even more horrible things and you're between the spade and the wall here you're told to your face by one of the kindest faces in the wild east and someone who had so much hope in you to outright hate you for acting as judge for someone who was a hurting and even if she did terrible things too could've been more easily talked out (And also said horrible things did stem out of Asgore's decisions) and so you end up like any other human, just another one to be unceremoniously put in jar, no fanfare like in the pacifist ending. I see other's point out this feels like the most cannon-ish ending but I recall Undine says no human has made it to Asgore.
Technically speaking, wouldn't Asgore still be responsible, albeit indirectly, for Clover's death even in the "True" Pacifist ending? Specifically because it was _his_ declaration that his people were following, one that would lead to Clover (in this particular instance) sacrificing themselves so monsterkind could be one step closer to freedom before even meeting the king face-to-face. With that in mind, I honestly think both pacifist endings can work into canon.
@@familyneves9777Toriel does mention they all die to Asgore. But it could be a manner of speech too. Since Asgore is the one responsible regardless of who kills them.
@@charlieking7600I think giving up their soul was at the time, the greates act of Justice they could have done. Justice for all the monsters who suffered trapped underground by humans, and even then terrorized by them. Contributing to destroying the barrier is Just
@@leritykay8911yeah but an issue was that they seem to just forget about the other humans from the start, here clover sees for themselves that they truly are dead as they shake with anger and want to avenge them, but due to the weaknesses stacked against them, they lose. Angry at themselves for not being able to save the other children.
It might be a bit tone deaf, but it'd be really cool if they added a secret secret ending where you can actually beat asgore, something like the post credits scene of the pacifist ending where you no hit it. Still the game was great even without that.
The more I dig through Undertale Yellow, the more I find it's actually overall better than the original Undertale (with one artistic pitfall it fell into). Story-wise, Yellow only has a small bump in how Cero acts sometimes being a little TOO suspicious, but overall it's a more cohesive story, more honest with it's intentions, and more reasonably handles choices and consequences both from the player's PoV and that of those around them. To be fair I had the same complaint about Sans as Cero, but not only failing to pay that suspicion off properly, but actively taunting players with it further, is far worse. As a game, Yellow better structures itself around the mechanics that Undertale used, even if it has to do some mild handholding to make it mesh with the story. Yellow's bullet patterns overall feel more... Fair? Turning battles into puzzles is always cool, otherwise there's not a lot to talk about here. Art is where we hit a speed bump, specifically the scale of overworld sprites, a problem that only finally clicked seeing Mart next to Asgore. 16-bit RPGs (like Earthbound/Mother 2, which heavily inspired Undertale) used the difference between the size of overworld sprites to give a sense of scale or narrative intimidation factor, and the difference between overworld and battle sprites also create a visual mystery box wondering what they "really look like" until you see them on the fight screen. The main group may be boss monsters, but they're not 'final boss' monsters, not that you could tell at a glance by their large, stylistically clashing 32-bit era sprites a 16-bit game would've had to layer multiple sprites together to make. They also visually clash with the scale of the world around them, I can't imagine the OCs (except maybe Starlo) would be able to spread their arms in OG Undertale's spaces without smacking their knuckles on the walls, or crossing Undertake's many rope bridges without potentially falling. It's way too late to fix it for Yellow, but maybe the next Undertale prequel can learn from the mistake?
_"The more I dig through Undertale Yellow, the more I find it's actually overall better than the original Undertale (...) Story-wise, Yellow only has a small bump in how Cero acts sometimes being a little TOO suspicious, but overall it's a more cohesive story, more honest with it's intentions, and more reasonably handles choices and consequences both from the player's PoV and that of those around them "_ Absolutely. I never liked how Undertale's story progressed: it seemed like it was afraid of it's own premise. Every time something of dramatic importance was revealed, Undertale would try to distract you with odd humor (like the True Lab) and it seemed to rework it's own logic to force the outcome Toby wanted in both the True Pacifist and Genocide runs. Undertale Yellow doesn't hide from it's own narrative or try to distract you from the morbid details: it shows you everything, warts and all, and then asks you to pass judgement on it's characters.
Hence why both pacifist endings are great. There is the failed pacifist where Ceroba gets killed for what she did and was killed in self defense, lawful justice. The true pacifist is where you spare her and decide to give up your life so the monsters who were wronged could be freed to come to the surface, moral justice
The monsters killed only 5 humans. Clover goes out of their way to kill every monster in the genocide route regardless if they were responsible or not for the death of the 5 humans.
@@BlueCheeseTheCoolCheeseThe genocide ending is literally the only ending where Clover is able to defeat Asgore and reach their goal. Its possible that it is the very reason they do it in the first place. To get strong enough to kill Asgore after failing to do so in flawed pacifist.
@@waifuri in order to do genocide you have to actively search for monsters in most of the rooms till "but nobody came comes" that's not killing only those who attack him
both endings are good in their own right and both can be canonical enough given that on both sides, Clover understands and reinterprets the meaning of justice. They understood that letting monsters finally have a chance at being free was just.
Even though exp is an acronym of "Execution points" its possible that clover doesnt earn any simply because he was fulfilling a request coming from the deepest desire of Ceroba,but this is just a theory,a game theory!
i'd say the 0 EXP thing might be because of the fact EXP is EXECUTION points. you are executing ceroba, yes. however, you are also killing someone who straight up is ASKING to be killed, which we have only have flowey at the end of a nuetral route for, and yet again, the same option of spare or kill... both times you get no EXP when you kill the ones asking for death. might be an implication to something if toby for some odd reason decides that undertale yellow is canon
