I like how the Kaylon, unlike any other faction, use suicide tactics and their smaller ships even look made for that role if its needed. Since their entire race is connected together via some kind of web, ramming their ships into an enemy makes perfect sense. They can simply transfer their consciousness back into another piece of hardware.
Which is why they're such a threat. A fleet crewed by organics can be forced to retreat after taking enough losses. Kaylon will fight to the 'death' because they cannot really die
The fact that the Union sent every available ships to try and retrieve the weapon that only harmful to the Kaylon, forgetting all the slaughters that Kaylon had caused and instead trying to save them is so awesome. The Union's values are truly that of valor and justice. I hope that someday irl, humanity can be like that too
I found it beautiful that they discussed just this. We go through our rocky patches, horrid crises, but eventually we learn to work together, and inner conflict dissolves
Star Wars-esque music, Star Trek battle scenes, Pirates of the Caribbean level memorable characters. What does this series not have, other than a tremendous budget.
The problem is unfortunately Seth MacFarlane. Nobody wants to tie their money to his name because of all the rape and child molestation jokes he wrote for family guy and other projects. Basically people only give Seth MacFarlane money for comedies because the people who invest in comedies A. Don't have as much money as the rest of hollywood, so they want big returns on small budgets and B. Already probably make money on sketchy markets like clubs, bars, music industry etc. Billionaires invest in Marvel and for that reason the movies are extremely squeaky clean, millionaires invest in The Orville so the show has no big budget.
You gotta appreciate Orville for making these large space armada battles easily viewable. Even if you can't remember which ships belong to which faction they made each faction have a primary color associated to them. Union in blue, Kaylon in red, Krill in green, and Moclan in yellow
@@Impulse154 they are the egg shaped ones, that zoom by from time to time, they dont have as much color as the other vessels so they kinda blend into the back ground
The flashbacks really put the Kaylon's feelings about biologicals into perspective. When they analyzed Earth's past and saw slavery similar to what their builders did, it makes sense that they would see them as a threat. All they wanted was to not be enslaved and tortured again. Both sides misjudged the other. The Kaylon neglected to see that humans had changed, and would see what the builders did as abhorrent. The humans just didn't know how badly the Kaylon were treated, and didn't realize they were capable of change. All it took was communication. While the Kaylon did do some very bad things, neither side was completely right or completely wrong, and they had their reasons for feeling the way they did. Hopefully Charly's sacrifice convinces the Kaylon that current biologicals are not a threat to them.
If kaylon primary, someone that experienced their builders cruelty first hand is giving the union a chance then I'd say it'll go well. Hell, he even congratulated isaac at his wedding
"All they wanted was not to be enslaved and tortured again." Their previous (?) Primary literally said that other species were to be equally genocided because the Kaylons needed space. It had nothing to do with fear of enslavement and tortured. The Kaylons had gone full-on Nazi here. Neither side was completely wrong? Oh yes. Yes, the Kaylons were wrong, period. The were genocidal and omnicidal maniacs. Their past be damned, that's not an excuse for doing it again on other species.
Weird how the Moclans were only kept in the Union because of the "superior" weapons but like 2 seconds after they were kicked out the Union developed a much better weapon for the fight.
Because that’s not what the union did at all. We know the reason the Union allowed Isaac to remain was so he could make a defense against the Kaylon. The weapon he developed alongside Burke was something that was being built up to since the ending of the Kaylon invasion. In addition the device was not so much a weapon but rather a selective WMD. The Moclans still possess traditional weapons that are more powerful than those of the Union.
@@sirlancegamer8973 to be fair, the Union *always* gets its ass kicked. It's as if they took that "peaceful vessels of exploration" thing too far and forgot to give the ships decent durability
@@InfernosReaper you have to choose where to optimize; Starfleet in Trek gets away with it because they're far and away _the_ technological and scientific superpower of their region, their dedicated exploration and science ships can stand on even grounds with the warships of their peer powers. The Planetary Union doesn't have that. Granted, that probably does mean they should've specialized a few more ships into defensive roles...
It was a singular weapon designed for a specific purpose. However thst should NOT have been enough reason to keep the Moclans around. I don’t care if your weapons are better than ours. If you break Union Law (I would HOPE Topaz’s gender identity is protected.) YOY are getting my vote for being KICKED THE FUCK OUT.
I LOVE how the fast the Kylon attack when they arrive, just jump in and fire. They might claim they are emotionless, but I can almost feel the malice there.
The Kaylons garnered sympathy with their slavery arc. And I see the Moclans & Krill as allies tied by their tradition-based close mindedness whereas the Kaylons are open to being rational.
Couldn’t disagree more. The Kaylon set out to exterminate all organic races. People who had done them no wrong, and were only being targeted due to their ethnicity as organics. And they had superior technology to do it. Both the Moclan and and Krill regimes were awful, but I don’t exactly see them as the bad guys here. They were simply fighting to protect the galaxy from an hostile force that had declared war on them, with the intention of exterminating every organic man, woman and child in the galaxy. You can’t embrace total war then garner sympathy when the enemy does the same. The Kaylon could very easily have turned on the Union after this battle that I like the Krill or Moclans, the Union actually built this doomsday weapon with the intention of wiping them out. Only plot armour seems to have prevented this from happening.
@@timhare9867 it's not plot armor if you view Isaac's own shift in viewpoint during the invasion of Earth as a microcosm of what the Kaylon did after Charly (who hated them) sacrificed her life to save them. Kaylons had arguably well-founded beliefs on the harm organics could cause them. Having discriminatory beliefs is a problem, yes but a sign of rationality is the ability to move beyond restrictive beliefs that used to define you & embrace greater truths. The Kaylons have now done that. Conversely the Moclans are now bad guys because they can't or won't move beyond their attitudes toward females in defiance of Alliance laws on individual rights. The Krill tried to embrace a peaceful alliance with non-followers of Avis but there was too much internal opposition for them to overcome.
The Kaylon also make decisions based on calculations and equations. If the variables change then the Kaylon change if the variables don't change the Kaylon don't change. The Moclan and Krill however are trapped by tradition and huberus and cannot change unless the entire culture changes. Also being a hive mind allows the Kaylon to change all at once.
I love that Kaylon Prime's initial reaction is literally the Kaylon version of "Is this a joke?" Also, whenever I hear Krill, I think of the swarms of giant insects in Gears of War that would shred a fully grown human or Locust down to their bones in literally a matter of seconds.
Yeah the Krill are one of the few species in the Orvilleverse that are rather poorly named for what they are. They should have leaned into the religious angle and called them the Avenites.
Is it Krill or Krell? The former are pelagic crustaceans which provide the major food source for baleen whales; the latter were the race destroyed by id-monsters on Altair IV in "Forbidden Planet."
@@georgedunn320 The former is also the name of the species in the Destiny franchise that became the Hive. Do these Krill practice the logic of the sword?
Whenever I think of Krill, I think of Finding Nemo and the scene in which Marlon and Dori get swallowed by the whale because they happened to have crossed paths with a school of krill.
I love the Kaylons entrance so much and how they immediately made an impact. The Krill were so confident, literally saying “This will be over quickly” then 5 second later Kaylon appear and scream HE MUST PERISH
The script writers in The Orville are bloody good at their jobs, big credit to them, they can turn one episode around 3 times ensuring the audience never gets bored.
Seth is the only writer, which is why there are so few episodes. A team of scriptwriters could make enough episodes for many seasons instead of the average of 5 per year.
A Kaylon-Union alliance was totally unthinkable at the beginning of this season. However, the writers wrote a convincing storylines that fully explains the context and why it makes sense. It's way better than the Federation-Borg alliance plot in "Picard" Season 2 😉
I have a feeling the next bad guys in season 4 will be the spider people from the Shadow Realms with some cold war incursions with the Krill and Moclans.
@@wikimon Woah bud, calm yourself. The OP was just commenting about how he enjoyed the show, you didn't need to attack it like that. Also while I won't entertain the answering of your question as I'm lazy and don't feel like rewatching every episode of the series, I will say even if they do so, they manage to do it while having the show be enjoyable. Plot, characters, hell even season one- the most parody heavy season -had some good moments in it. Good show imo, sad to hear you think otherwise, but for good reason. I just look past it and enjoy the show for what it is.
A TV Show created by a man obsessed with Star Trek and how it once told it's stories has now become the TV Show that completely eclipses all modern versions of that inspiration. The Orville is absolutely wonderful and is the one bright shining light in the sci-fi genre right now. If this isn't renewed for a 4th season then in all honesty the asteroid can hit or we can have world war 3 because at that point what the hell are we even doing as a species! This show needs to run for at least 3 more seasons... at least!
TOS got 3 seasons, and that was because it fought tooth and nail to just exist. Enterprise got 4 seasons, and everyone knew it was only just getting into its stride. All the other (good) Star Trek shows got seven seasons. The Orville deserves as much.
@@SchneeflockeMonsoon Enterprise really hit stride in season 2 and 3, I found the 4th season to be really poor, probably because they knew they were done for and just rushed stories. I would have loved some more though for sure
Yep still alot of untold stories i wanna see Malloy get his happy ending hopefully with laura i think somehow that timeline didn’t dissolve because at near the end of the episode as they were leaving to get him from 2015 it zoomed on the picture of him and the family they didn’t vanish from it so i feel like somehow he will get laura and his kids back i think the people form the planet that advances time every 11 days will be a part of it somehow they said they can create there own universes and everything they saw was real so maybe they will bring laura and the kids to malloy as a thank you for something or just laura to the future or go another way completely and just change malloys story but either way he needs a happy ending
@@timothythomad5529 Is it? The only standards i see here are some double standards. Somehow everything in the Orville is amazing when the same things are bad in new Star Trek.
I love the Kaylon entrance at 3:27. I'm not sure if Seth drew inspiration from Rogue One, who had a similar entrance for the rebel alliance at the battle of Scarif, or a different source but its a thing of beauty.
@@DragonZer0 With the difference that the Kaylon can be reasoned with. The fact that Kaylon are actually capable of changing their minds is an incredibly huge redeeming factor for their species.
The Moclan were a very dependable ally. Not only are they locked into a strong sense of law and tradition, but their proficiency for warfare and embracing of unfettered industrial development gave them a very unique niche within the Union that the Union's otherwise idealistic nature would make both very hard to replace and very necessary to have. Had the Union simply been willing to let them continue killing and mutilating their children in the name of their traditions and culture, the Moclan would have profited greatly from the Union's wars with the Kaylon and Krill and only become stronger allies. That's sort of the point of this story line; holding to your principles isn't easy, and it isn't cheap but its worth doing. In this story by sticking to their principles the Union proved that it could be trusted and trust is what they need to win over the Kaylons.
@@jcolinmizia9161 Kaylon "aren't interested in deception." Did you forget Isaac, a Trojan Horse meant to gather intelligence for the future genocide? And logic does not imply there is one optimal choice. I think the Vulcans' plot lines have beat down this point ad nauseam.
I mean, what does FTL drive look like? I've never seen one. 😉 But they're quite distinctive from ships in other sci-fi series, and aesthetically elegant.
@@danieldickson8591 Right? That’s what I love about the Union ships. They’re so streamline and, like you said, elegant. The heavy cruisers are so fucking awesome.
They're supposed to have an aquatic look about them, almost like a jellyfish. The designer is the same guy who designed SeaQuest DSV thirty years ago, which is why the Union ships have a somewhat similar look to that.
@@markwaldron8954 or if you go based off the theory we have now on making a warp bubble... that collapses space in front and expands behind... kinda get a ship that looks like the union ships...
I don't really like the union ships design. They look like a novelty smiling bottle opener. The flared spoilers just look odd. I do like they improved the engine room in the final season. Just looked like a stuck on decal in the first few seasons.
Until the last episode this season lacked humor (for the most part) but REALLY knocked it out of the park with everything else, well worth the 3 year wait.
@@bluecollarwatches7048 You think he would understand when told they are being attacked? Mighty high opinion you have of Brandon I would more expect him to turn to empty air and talk about corn pop or go on about some weird pool story.
@@DarkNexarius that still wasn’t all of them either. We can estimate they left several hundred behind to protect Kaylon. This means the Kaylon are better equipped and have more ships than the Union.
@@Mgl1206 The Kaylon were sentient machines gearing up for war on an inter-galactic scale so it makes sense that the numbers of their Fleet eclipse all other individual civilizations. Even with the Union sanctions preventing them from producing more ships and weapons, they still have a formidable armada that outshines anything the Union can bring to battle. If they stay friends with the Union and the Moclan-Krill alliance pushes hard enough, imagine what the Kaylon could do when the Union allows them to start weapons development again.
funny how this whole thing started because they were at war with the Kaylon, and now they are allys with them and they are now at war with two of their former allys against the kaylon
Yep; we can certainly draw parallels to real life in so far as how an entity like The United Nations are viewed, for the things they have to do to maintain civility among their member nations.
One gripe I have about this scene is the lack of seatbelts deployed during COMBAT SITUATIONS. I don't care HOW ADVANCED spaceships are in this universe but INERTIA is something you must NEVER OVERLOOK even in space.
You gotta love The Expanse. William Shatner himself said, while addressing fans, his original show was to him a bit of a comic book era lark, first and foremost, before the science. With this in mind, my appreciation for Trek and Nimoy is enhanced somewhat, and more so is my appreciation for the truly pioneering work of Stanley Kubrick; the first Sci-Fi story producer on Earth to portray it as though it were as real as it gets.
I think the reason they don't add seat belts is to reduce the clean up needed in case of inertial dampener/artificial gravity failure. Keeps the gore nicely contained, I'd imagine.
Because it's a cartoon sci-fi that focuses on character development rather than nitpicking on "realism". The whole point is humanity towards enlightenment in the far future.
I like that we actually got to see Lamar and Gordon in fighters. A lot of military based series sci do or not tell us all these credentials for backstories but we usually see them use them at their post. It’s always cool to see them go from post to what they know how to do
3:22 - 3:25 On the mothership series, he would've yelled "Sir! It's the ENTERPRISE!!" Almost forgot this series isn't officially part of 'Star Trek' 😅😉
@@bruceleealmighty God I wish Stargate got a new series. Hell even one were they reveal the existence of the Gate and begin an interplanetary diplomatic/colonial effort would be interesting
@@Gyrono Since it seems they intend on bringing back most if not all main characters, I'm hopeful that SG will come back with it's (now) nostalgic theme. Yeah, yeah, yeah they'll modernize it, I'm sure, but if done in the spirit, I'm all in. Amanda Tapping, Jolene Blalock, and as many characters as possible, yeah, all in.
That would be nice, but sadly not much chance with how long it's been between seasons. All the actors will have moved on to other things to pay the bills.
Imagine being the Krill, and you hate the Union already as godless barely-life forms as is, and then they show up with a fleet of genocidal robots as their allies. XD This is NOT going to help the Krill come back for peace talks, I tell you that.
"Poor, poor divinely appointed supreme race of the Galaxy. Did those lesser, weak, souless Unionist and their meanie metal can allies hurt your superior feelings?"😏
In the last episode (i think), they droped a huge info about ALL space capable ships on full crew and then some that The Kaylons can field and its around 4756 ships like these. With this lore drop they did, its pretty much evident that any and all space enemy will be rendered useless against Kaylon's ridiciliuos numbers. Especially that they started manufacturing in the last season and less then a decade was spent since.
They should throw some mud on this next season like have an episode where they are informed by the Union that the Kaylon have attacked Krill, then investigate the homeworld finding it razed and witness Krill battlecruisers trying to lead civilian ships to safety, Isaac informs the Kaylon primary where they are, causing some friction with the crew when the Kaylon arrive to annihilate the fleet.
Orville, when the parody of Star Trek is a better Star Trek than Star Trek. Though the Expanse has ruined a lot of sci fi in space for me, I just keep thinking "Why are you burning prograde, you'll miss the planet"
I appreciate how relentlessly moral the Union are. They are willing to go to war with former allies just to save a race of genocidal robots. I don't think even the Federation would have done that. Picard, maybe but not those Federation Admirals. This time round morality paid off, but can you imagine if the Kaylon had turned on the Union after the battle? It would have been catastrophic.
What is nice is that they did cover that base, if however small, after the battle and after Charly sacrificed herself, with Ed making an argument towards Kaylon Primary: "Do you depart peacefully, or is this battle not over?!" It's a good thing that a sacrifice to save a former enemy is basically a division by zero in logic for the Kaylon. XD
@@Kazuo1G You definately put it best. It's a logical 0-sum to them. They are safe, but then their premise of all bios are threats and must be purged is no longer logical. This allows a door for consideration. The writers honestly give a fairly believable reason for the Kaylon not to just turn around and slaughter a weakend foe. Because the Kaylon aren't evil nasty boogeymen. They're calculating Machines who're are if I'm honest scared. With the sacrifice of a Bio who not only made a weapon that could eliminate them, but also hated their existence. She created a loop of logic the Kaylon must disect. Allowing for the Kaylon a door to show that their original assumption was flawed. If anything allows them to finally start evolving.
Awesome show! This and Star Trek Lower Decks are the best sci-fi out right now (for me). These big battles scenes look stellar, to say the least. What I didn't get though, is why would the fighters fly along side the cloaked ground team ship? You couldn't see it. So, shouldn't they have created a diversion and drawn fire away from them? I don't know. lol nit-picky yes, but things make you go, hmmm?
Having kaylons on your side is like an auto win button. Living armies will take years to rebuild while kaylons are probably make new bodies even as all of this is happening
It always bugged me that all the weapons are forward mounted. It means that battleship sized vessels have to use fighter maneuvers. I wonder who came up with that
You know what breaks my heart? The Union is here fighting the Krill, to save the Kaylon! Not themselves. That's how amazing they are, and why the Kaylon join them in the end.
You never, never expose your weakness to another army whether they are your enemy or an ally. Lie, decept them or avoid the subject, but don't say "we would be massacred".
I imagine the Kaylon have enough intelligence about the strength of their enemies, that trying to hide it from them would be futile. Just like modern nations on Earth know a lot about each other's military capability.
I kinda like how the Kaylon ships are like the Reapers from Mass Effect. But unlike the Reapers that are based on aquatic creatures the Kaylon got Eyes for ships.
Anyone played Armor Command before? It's a PC game from the 90s. Can't help feeling nostalgic from seeing these space battle scenes as they look very similar to cutscenes from the game.
