Universes Beyond Will Continue Until Morale Improves | Dies To Removal 37 | Magic: The Gathering 

Is It Better To Have Powerful But Broken Sets Or Weak But Balanced? Our thoughts: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NLmffj6NN1Y.html

I don't think Vince quite understands how the "devour" keyword works.

Lets be honest. If you are buying a mechanically unique Secret Lair card that will be reprinted in The List in 6 months, you will most likely receive them around the same time that The List versions are going on sale.

I loved the editing at Vince's confusion and frustration trying to explain that a Wookie and an Ewok are different creatures. It almost turned into a "who's on first " skit and I had a good chuckle. Thanks for the video Vince and Brian! (It was also funny that the Prof commented on his confusion why people kept calling him Brian).

"The Furby craze wasn't that long ago". It's been over twenty years, man.

Ah yes, Chewbacca: King of the Ewoks. Never change, Prof.

"You probably known him better as Seth." Nailed it.

The 6 month "exclusivity" doesn't bother me too much when you realize that it's the same amount of time you're waiting for your secret lair to come in the mail.

“He begins to cry as you place the top card of his library into your mouth.” …the new “ante” card.

Wow, Dies to Removal coming almost as frequently as Secret Lair drops. Great intro guys

This entire conversation was built off a foundation of how secret lairs work that I wish was not there. I know I'm in the minority here, but I really wish magic had stayed in the realm of allegory toward other IPs. An easy example is Zendikar being an allegory to adventuring in DnD. I wish instead of literally printing Gandalf, they stayed in allegory and it was something we all winked at knowing "this white mage" is magic's allegory for Gandalf and so on. But the Pandora's box I was afraid of going near is already open and like I say all the time now, Magic is just the TCG equivalent of Fortnite. (And the Fornite secret lair doesn't help anything)

A live with prof watching “a new hope” would be epic

My gripe about the 'Print on the List' is that it dilutes so many of the slots making the 'meaningful reprint' capacity of The List will be EVEN worse.

Notice that Prof's deck is already missing - Vince didn't even wait until he won...

I would actually watch a video of the Prof trying to retell The Original Trilogy as he perceives them from pop-culture references or names inclinations. That would be like modern time myths, where they used to rehash characters and actions, change form and blend into each other.

"imagine liking doctor who so much, that it blinds you to the cultural osmosis of actual star wars" well that totally didn't ever happen to me!

Omg, another episode so soon! Easily my favourite mtg podcast

Vince : it cannot get any worse. WOTC : get our new secret layer BTS, you favorite popstars on a card.

Prof: I know about Start Wars that there's a Darth Vader and one of the main heroes is a furry Vince: Oh god no... This whole conversation was comedy gold, not gonna lie.

A Happy Days secret lair. They could have Fonzie jumping a shark. It would be uber meta.

Well prof if you're interested in Warhammer, I will say that we're in need of somebody who makes product reviews at the standard that you do. Great episode :)

I feel like Wizards in the Walking Dead Secret Lair article kept hammering away that Magic is a *SYSTEM,* one that you can use to slot in other IPs (as we see now with things like Lord of the Rings and Street Fighter). I wouldn't be surprised if Hasbro decided to make Magic just be their go-to "card game" for their various brands. Why bother developing a unique Transformers, GI Joe, My Little Pony, or Barbie card game when you can put those IPs into the Magic: The Gathering "system." All black-border of course, to make sure that these get proper attention.

I’ll say I’m a big fan of the new editing that went into this episode. I’m sure that it is a bit more work for your production folks, but I think those little moments near the end that make these videos just that much more enjoyable to watch.

One of the few "salty-esque" podcasts I'll willingly listen to, due to the fantastic hosts. Love you guys!

You mentioned a “Game” being attached to these cards? Haven’t heard of that before, but they sure are delicious!

Universes Beyond-only Format aka Non-Magic Magic. The pain Prof felt at that concept was palpable.

I loved last part "ah for an afforable, never in a million years" :D

I want a cowboy set just so that we get more horsemanship cards!!!!

I've seen links to Dune-inspired EDH decks with Hazezon that really flavorful. I know we had Amonkhet, but would like to explore another desert plane or go to where Hazezon lives.

Universes beyond is the sort of thing where I don't really object to any one thing I just don't want to end up in a place where there is so much spillover that a commander game feels more like a pop-culture mashup. That is where I really don't want to end up at and every new universe, even the one's I'm looking forward to, are one more step towards that point.

I finally figured out what was weird to me about Universes Beyond - they don't register as Magic cards in my subconscious. I think it dates back to the Grimlock and Twilight Sparkle cards. They printed them and then said "But they're not real magic cards, obviously. This one says 'Convert a Transformers® toy'. This one uses the clause 'everypony wins the game'". Much like the holiday/WOTC employee cards before them. When they print "Grimlock, Dinobot Leader" as a fake card (for advertising purposes), then print "Rick, Steadfast Leader" as a real card (for advertising purposes) it's just going to feel fake. If you asked me what Rick's ability does my first guess is something like "Put X counters on target creature, where X is your favorite season of Zombieland®". (I think it's also why the whole D&D set felt like an un-set, but that's a whole tangent)

Vince and Prof chatting about Warhammer during this episode makes me really want a "Vince Introduces Prof to Black Library/Warhammer Lore" show/series. It'd be really interesting to get an 'outside' opinion on the lore, especially from someone like the Professor

I love you guys' banter back and forth! Watching all the old episodes is neat!

You can tell this was filmed before the latest set of both Secret Lair, and Un-Set announcements.

Wheel of Time cross over secret lair seems plausible, and would actually be cool to see!

The convention exclusive Transformers mtg cards were a cool concept (even if their means of transforming were unorthodox). I could easily see them going back to it and coming up with a more black-bordered means of transforming the cards.

42:03 "A wand with a clip". Hilarious.

The very first magic expansion, Arabian Nights, was basically UB and retroactively set on the plane of Rabiah. MaRo has said that it would require a 'Major Miracle' to return to Rabiah, but compared to WH40K and the like, it seems more 'magic' than those other things like Fortnite.

The thing is though, "guns" or whatever pieces of technology that resemble firearms, have been depicted already in MtG's past. The alchemists in Innestrad used "geistthrowers", which were spirit fueled flamethrower, Izzet shock troopers used some sort of resource powered portable cannon, and even in Portal 2, one of the kingdoms had literal flintlock firearms. "Magic Adjacent" just isn't an appropriate standard to parallel IP themes deemed Universes Beyond compatability because magic in its over 25 years of existence flirted with many ideas within its creative expression.

My favorite show on YT, bar none, not even kidding! TY Brian and Vince ❤️✌️

I love when Vince gets a good rant going and Prof just keeps negging him on.

Really interesting discourse on 40k. It's a super deep world, and some of the novels are really good - Dan Abnett in particular writes well. I can definitely see the Prof's view of keeping Magic Magic, but I also see the desire of bringing more people into Magic with extra content. Hopefully the R&D department are in fact watching and pick up on some of the ideas you have.

1:36-2:44 *Now I’m legitimately scared of Vince.* 👀👀

55:30 oh no prof knew about the transformers cards

You two are the best! I'm happy you two had the chance to visit :)

"I'm sorry, I can't defy the rules I invented and constantly change. My hands are tied (with toilet paper)."

What killed the Transformers ccg (this newest one) is they set themselves up for failure by putting it on a 3 month release schedule! Brand new product and as a magic player i could barely keep up and each set was Highly parasitic so they played poorly as a unified game. The base framework for the game was solid though and fun and balanced!

I love hearing two strong opinions explaining their stance thoroughly. I love this pod!

The last five years have been so weird for me as an enfranchised player who's been loving this game since... 96? I'd moved countries in 2016, left my playgroups behind, have never been able to find a solid new one since, and that was when my method for interacting with the hobby transitioned to discovering content creators like yourself, which has been nothing short of a godsend. Heck I am so happy to have signed on to the patreon when you were signing Syggs, I adore my copy. But between now and then, also as i've had so few people to play with, and as i've spent so much time discovering so much more about how magic has evolved through the likes of yourself, kenobi, etc, it's really shifted how I want to engage with magic on a physical level moving forward, even if I had a solid playgroup now. With the state of things, how much is released, how cynically and greedily motivated the mothership has become, and how limited my budget is, i've effectively had to take advantage of their yearly announcements to plan my engagement, and that plan is now: 1. Is the product touching on old mtg lore / artists? 2. Does it emotionally resonate with me? 3. Does it do either of those things better than other potential products this year that may do the same? There's just so much coming out in 2022 that i'm pretty much only going to be engaging in The Brothers War, most likely. I just can't allow myself to be hyped for the other sets because i know i wont have the time, funds, or energy to give to all of it, it's just impossible. But what i've noticed is, the more I allow for that attitude to sink in, the happier i've become about it. I can't wait to hear all about how awesome the new kamigawa set is, or new capenna for that matter, and i'm sure there'll be a splatter of secret lairs that entice and are fun for lots of people, and that's cool! But i'm out. I want to be voting with my wallet to some degree, and I never needed to have cards from every set to feel relevant or like it was required in order to have fun, and that mode of thinking seems more important now than ever with the way things are going. Thanks for these podcasts and everything you do, it's always a pleasure to sit down with a cup of coffee and enjoy your talks. Have a great rest of the year!

FFG is pretty heavy into the Game of Thrones license, so I'd be a little surprised if that license were available, but I would've said the same thing about Lord of the Rings. Critical Role seems like a decent possibility for the same reasons you mentioned for Rick and Morty. The Witcher is an interesting possibility, Netflix doesn't own the license, but they do make a show off of it. I agree on Dune. Maybe they can get that done for the second movie.

My dream "out there" universe is for us to get a slivers set in the skin of Ridley Scott's 'Alien'. a slither overlord in the skin of an alien mother would be pretty sweet and would definitely satisfy the nerd in me.

It is absolutely inpossible but I always want more DTR pods. You guys always have such great energy together.

Its so cool to have you both in one room talking to eachother!

How would you feel about a secret lair mystery packs. That have cards from the year or more pior five random cards and a special token for somewhere around the cost of collector booster packs

Having played magic for almost 25 years it is kind of hard to not be a purist. But the fact that it exists as a multiverse means they can totally make worlds based around science and technology. They already laid the first stones with kaladesh.

As a new player of magic (started around 5 years ago and recently really got into it this year) i do not mind the secret lair stuff, even if it didn't get a magic skin. But of they're going to make two versions of each card they need to have an easy identifier. My favorite card game, the Digimon tcg, fixes this issue by giving each card a serial number and you can't have more than 4 of each serial in your deck unless otherwise stated on the card.

Love me some of these videos y'all do together, keep up the great content guys, y'all keep me in the "know"

By the time a player realizes why I refer to their card sleaves as "wrappers," its too late.

Some of this is aged based I think. I'm closer to prof, played revised in junior high, what magic IS is very defined to me. For younger players I don't think they care as much.

If we're talking about potential Hasbro secret lairs. I would love if they did one themed around the game Clue. Seems pretty easy to do and there are plenty of characters in MTG lore that they could choose from to be each of the characters from the game. And of course, new clue tokens and use of the investigate mechanic. As for something that makes sense for them to do, I would say with Kamigawa Neon Dynasty coming out, they should do a Promare secret lair since it is a Japanese anime that lines up nicely with the overall aesthetic of the plane's current environment.

Vince delivers an unforgettable monologue about eating his opponent's cards. Prof repeatedly talks about negging, Vince remains clueless. Prof: I think you just gave them a product idea... Vince: Yeahhh... :) Vince repeatedly explains the difference between ewoks and wookies, Prof remains clueless. Best video yet.

You know, this has been really bumming me out; nothing about new releases gets me excited anymore, and it's been months since I've looked at a spoiler. I can't imagine a future where Magic becomes exciting again. Maybe I should check out Flesh & Blood 🤷

Dies To Removal continues to be my favorite series.

The monopoly bit sort of touches on something I've considered in regards to Universes Beyond: That they're considering Magic as a game system applicable to different properties. I forget their names but I know other games have done it, where the rules are the same but you can have Batman cards or Inuyasha ones or whatever all duking it out. Universes Beyond is them thinking maybe they can do that, but not wanting to commit. Because while they could just say "Here's a Lord of the Rings set for those fans, go ahead and play with them", it'd be awkward to buy into a card game like that without any assurance of support. So while they're shuffling their feet, they're going "It's okay, you can play those cards with all these established formats too!" If they just committed, said "Hey, we're making a separate line of cards that works basically the same as Magic, so if you wanted to you could mix them up but we're not forcing you", things would've gone *so* much better. But they don't want to commit just yet, thus we're here.

We just had our local modern store championship event in person. It felt so good playing again!

Wheel of Time. There's so much potential here be it a secret lair drop, a set, or commander decks.

56:00 They drove the TCG into the ground with 9 sets in 1 year, and certain decks in the first batch were so good that no matter how they did other deck types or themes, the insecticons and jets were the meta no matter what.

Yes to Krynn, been playing a Dragonlance game online for 20+ years so this would've been very welcome indeed.

Just dropping in to say that I love that you can do live in-person DtR again!

Guns have shown up occasionally: Portal had several, Goblin Sharshooter, Rocket Launcher, Phyrexian Reaper, Deadeye Plunderers, etc.

It honest to God feels that way. That title is perfection

59:59 lmao that’s the best idea I’ve hear all year! 😛

I'm glad the turn never passed to you Professor, Vince clearly ate your deck already.

10:24 Pure comedy GENIUS

If you read MaRo article about Unfinity, he said that: "Universes Beyond had started using the security stamp to express information about the card (normal Magic cards have an oval security stamp, while Universes Beyond cards have a triangle). What if we used the security stamp to indicate what silver border used to indicate? " So, in my opinion we can just take UB holostamp as an indication that these are not "real" Magic card. And like it was done with Silver Border cards, decide with our group if we allow these cards in our decks.

What I would LIKE to see out Secret Lairs are things like what they did with the Shock Lands, Snow Lands, Preators, that kind of stuff: stuff that's ALREADY in Magic, but basically just different art. Like what Vince said, skins (but MtG skins). For example, I would love to theme out the rest of the lands for one of my commander decks, with lands from the commanders plane. Or, maybe get cards with art from that plane. I know that these types of restrictions will NEVER be the only ones they do... But hey, that's what I want this product to be.

1:00:05 Anne Rice vampire, OR Legacy of Kain series vampire sets!

I know it's crazy but I would love to see them make more my little pony cards like that collection a couple years ago. I don't care if they're silver border either. I just want to be able to use the wincon on twilight sparkle someday

I would love to see a "Legend of Zelda" themed set for universes beyond. It would definitely sell and it probably wouldn't feel very out of place within MtG.

This editing is excellent, Prof!

THAt WAS THE BEST INTRO I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!

There are a few crossovers I would genuinely be excited for but never in my 12 years of playing have I said man this game would be better if it had Bayonetta/Dante in it, or jojo's or whatever your favorite IP is. Im personally of the belief that magic should stay magic but WOTC obviously feels like that's leaving money on the table

Would love to see a Dragonlance set, it's always been my favorite D&D world.

that conversation about star wars reduced my life expectancy by seven years good lord

25:49 Technically we have mechanically unique cards that are not in regular boosters for years. It's the commander products (: The very first commander decks already gave you cards like Mimeoplasm that you could'nt get in a booster ... ever. The main difference was, that you were getting 100 cards for like 30$ and it did not feel as predetory as getting like 3 cards for 30$ or 5 cards for 200$.

I'd love to hear what 40k armies interests the Professor.

Feel like you guys totally missed the idea of a witcher themed secret lair. Because that universe is rich with creatures, characters relics and locations.

I have indeed just double-sleeved my deck thanks to the professor :)

Love your videos, they help inform my purchases so much.

Man has the professor really lived in such a hole about star wars that he doesnt know about Chewbacca being a wookie and ewoks? Or is he just fucking with us?

Honestly, in 2021/22 it's objectively correct to assume the worst of WotC at all times.

Always here for Vince & Brian. And I'm 100% the target audience for the 40k Commander Decks. I need them, all of them, right now. More!

i really like that list slot being the universes beyond\secret lair slot idea tbh and focuse reprints into reprint sets

Nothing beats paper magic. End of story. (PK is hungry :D)

I picture a Magic Monopoly game being like Explorers of Ixalan, where it comes with its own decks (that somehow factor into advancing around the Monopoly board) and they stick a few solid reprints in there to get people to buy it.

Professor: What do you miss Me: Faerie Trickery. Then Barral's Expertise. Illusionist's Gambit on their attack. Mana Drain. Counterspell. Then Flood of Tears. Either from them, or the card. I'm happy now.

I opened a Crimson Vow set box and I ended up with like five total list cards. Given, one was exquisite blood, but my point is the list is still not the solution

Kaladesh is the closest to sci-fi I'd want to see Magic get.

I see where so many people do not like the universes beyond drops, but They do help bring things to the game. Im a huge twd fan, and it was actually that secret lair that got me back into magic, so the drops are introducing our game to new players.

Always great watching you two! Speaking of Netflix series that may be made into secret lairs, I think there may be a Witcher universes beyond product.