University of Jank! | Commander Clash Podcast 96 

Which College will you sign up to? Choose here: ru-vid.comUgkxVuiohwF5L23Gn7kxsgCzbzRifPl6ZYAU

Crim running all the removal just because Richard dont believe in removal is like a self fulfilling prophecy

Crim putting the "troll" in "control" ^^

It's fun watching you talk about game philosophy in the Podcast like we can't just watch you guys doing the exact opposite in Commander Clash XD

Tomer: Don't Play Scared Also Tomer: "What if he has opposition agent? Hes tapped out but he may have it so not gonna play this thing."

Ya'll let Richard get away with too much. 😂

This was an intervention. The playgroup just slowly realizing they play right into Richard's hands every game

Phil gonna be that TA who subs in periodically. He might not say much, but his lessons are probably filled with valuable shortcuts and answers to the exam.

Crim likes being a villain, but he wants the heroes to win

One lesson I've adapted from watching Commander Clash is to channel my inner-Richard. I never bother with a Turn 1 Sol Ring anymore and stall some of my game plans until the table establishes someone else as the archenemy. By doing so, the table expends most of their resources on the "archenemy" and I end up still having most of my cards still available. That being said, Richard has the other advantage of being known as the "Kithkin" and "Bird" player that most playgroups don't take seriously until the end.

"I dont negotiate with terrorists." Is kind of a staple at our table lol

A board wipe is a board wipe but a mystery draw could be anything... EVEN A BOARD WIPE and you KNOW how much we need one of those.

Once again, Crim is the voice of reason. You don't have to run out all your removal constantly, but holding it for when it does come at you is much better than not running removal and wraths. Richard has gaslit the rest of the group so hard

As a Breya and Imhotek player, I have to agree with Crim... Always stop the artifact deck. We will cry, complain, try to negotiate... don't believe our words! You give us an inch we will take a mile!

Hey Commander Clash Crew, I've got an idea that I think could be fun for a week's theme. We all know that magic players love their cycles, right? And magic players also love arguing about which color is best? Well I propose we solve that question once and for all with CYLCE WEEK: where each player chooses a single color and builds a deck by shoving as MANY examples of that color's share of a cycle in there. I'm talking the M10 titan cycle, the Commander 2013 tempt cycle, heck go ALL the way back to alpha and put in the boon cycle! I'm not suggesting that you all *have* to mirror each other with the exact cycles you play, that would just be ridiculous.

While yes Richard, nobody in your play group really grovels to the control player, out in the real world, people do that ALL the time. The amount of games I have won just by saying "you'll regret that if you do it" even when I have nothing is WAY higher than it should be. New players play scared and you win so many more games when you dont play scared. But just remember, there is a fine line between bravery and stupidity.

“The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.” Tomer’s right when he says you attack the player who says they have the answer. His win percentage from last season shows that it’s not actually a bad strategy. In Commander, terrorism is easily dismantled if just one or two players decide they’re not negotiating.

I would love to see a table with four Richards, just to see what happens.

The real winner is the friends we pissed off along the way. - Crim

The best advice I have to enjoy commander is just be a menace. Being a menace is the most fun. Do the craziest interactions, be the guy to control the board and make every gameplay decision. Be the player who always has the weirdest answers. It’s just fun building decks that seem to always be able to do something impactful. Like yesterday I played a game. One player is popping off with avenger of zendikar and we have one turn to board wipe before we all die. On my turn, I Entomb a Wrath of God and grab it with an archomancer from the graveyard and then cast it using all my mana and save the whole table from death. It felt like such a rewarding experience and such a unique puzzle to solve. Being able to always be a menace and do whatever is the best feeling

1:22:37 Tomers face here on realizing what Richard said is priceless.

I really want to see "Against the Odds" tribal where each person plays a deck based on an interaction found in an Against the Odds episode

I personally think Richard is lucky to be playing with this group as I've had friends who played magic (other games) with his exact mindset which is to never be the target. But the issue with that is if people know that, they will counter by forcibly making you the target. For example, if they play a blocker because they don't want to get attacked and someone decides to Swords it so that they and the rest of the table can hit them. This causes obvious angst - like why would you sword my random blocker so you all can target me? How come I don't get to play the game? How come I'm the target when I'm not doing anything threatening? Well because you've demonstrated on numerous occasions that you doing nothing is the most threatening part of your playstyle. So then they HAVE to use resources and they feel like they were the target and they didn't get to have FUN because they had to spend their turns doing stuff in response to others rather than sit there and get other people to do it for them which is the opposite of how they think everyone should play. So they then complain about how everyone's bad at the table because they don't play exactly how they think everyone should play - so they get killed even faster. Idk but this as been my experience tbh so Richard I think makes some good points when playing in a complete vacuum but if you have a play group his playstyle IMO doesn't really do much after a while.

" Thats not an artifact deck, they skipped 3 of their own turns" I dont think i have laughed so hard before at one of these podcast. Crim said that so quick and smooth Kaldra wasnt burned by that remark it was melted down in the forge of trolling!

To build off of Seth's point at 17:30 I see a lot of people make an enemy by blowing up a mana rock when they don't have to. Even something like a silverback elder trigger that's a repeatable effect. You should choose the ramp over the "free" artifact destruction because you'll make enemies.

Thank you for knowing and reaching threat assessment, Richard. Sincerely, An eldrazi player who absolutely promised to only swing at the combo player who is two turns from winning and yet had every threat removed before I could swing once by the two other players (this happens every time I play big things 😢)

With some friends, we use to say "The winner in commander is usually the second best deck at the table". The first to pop off usually gets countered, interacted with, then dunked on, and usually the second one to pop off is much less likely to get interacted with. Additionnally, when deckbuilding, i tend to always aim the deck to be the second best at the table. Adapt to my playgroups.

"I don't feel like I've ever lost a game!" says Crim, who is still losing to that one Nyxbloom Ancient punch from three or four seasons ago...

I think you guys could take this college thing a step further. Instead of fan deck submission week, have people sign up for your college and pit them against each other with your live coaching! Almost like a game knights fan episode. They could submit applications with their decks to each of your colleges and each of you could pick a student to champion!

Tomer's rant about not being afraid to play the game out and attack or prevent someone from going off reminded me of a Commander Legends Baulder Gate draft I did. I had a dominate but not commanding board presence and my value engine was already delt with when one player asked the player with the least board presence to allow him to swing in unblocked allowing him to create an army of tokens. He did this 3 turns in a row allowing the token player to run away with the game just because he was in last and he didn't want me to win since I was ahead at that point. I guess hanging back might have it's benefits after all!

I'm starting my own school with blackjack and Stasis locks.

Richard seems especially happy in this episode! Great work you guys!

I love being the Archenemy. It gets the table to come together and try to get me. Most of the time I lose, but I'm fine with that, I felt like I did my thing to be the archenemy.

not finished watching yet, but this might be my favourite episode ever already. the non-generic premise really gets some interesting discussion. cheers.

Im a nurse and a control player the ultimate thankless job king!

I have a Windgrace MLD deck and I start with a target in my head. It's my favorite deck :)

Best day ever! Few minutes ago endup watching newest MTGGoldfish podcast and now I can finnaly learn Richard philosophy of Commander

54:42 Richard is like "who are you trying to convince Tomer, me or you?"

"Casual isn't an archetype". Depends. Casual can best be described as valuing good games over victory. You want to see your deck do its thing, and you want to see everyone else's deck do their thing. You want to have fun fighting for the dominant position in the game, but if you die, then you aren't disappointed as long as you did the thing. Control is fine because it establishes an archenemy that the table then gets to team up to stop, and that creates amazing moments of cooperation that define commander as different from 1v1 formats. But there are strategies that don't facilitate that kind of play. Particularly Staxx, though things like mass land destruction also do this. If your plan is to prevent me from playing magic, then I don't want to play with you. Whether you're doing that by winning the game before I can play my commander, or blowing up my lands, or preventing me from casting spells, or taking infinite turns, or making me sac all my stuff. All of those prevent me from playing the game. Maldhound often says things like you sit down at a table with a staxx deck and stop playing magic and start playing its sister game, "Watching other people play magic." That is so incredibly true. If your idea of fun is making me sit the game out, then I don't want to play with you because I know that I won't get to have fun. And to be clear, staxx is different from control on two axi. One is about how you limit me, and the other is about redundancy. Making me pay mana to attack you is fine because I know that I can pay if attacking you is so important to my strategy. If I'm voltron and I need to hit you I will pay 2. But if you are running ghostly prison and propaganda, and glacial chasm. At some point, it isn't about what it costs me to attack you it becomes a thing where I don't have solutions because they would require ultra specific answers. When your plan is to make it impossible for me to play, that is a problem. If you ask me whether I want to play my monowhite jank deck against an arch enemy Prosper or Urza deck 3 times in a row, or play against a staxx player once with my Isshin deck I will choose my monowhite jank deck every single time. Because humility plus ghostly prison plus propaganda plus glacial chasm means that I can't do anything but pray they end me quickly. Because even if I draw 2 removal spells in Ishinn, I need at least 3 to even think of doing something. And if they play any recursion then I can't do anything. Where if I play my monowhite jank deck, then at least I can contribute to the table's effort to do something against the arch enemy.

I think the big difference between "Combos/High Power" and "Casual/Low Power" is whether or not the interaction happens on board or on the stack. If I can answer your win condition with Vindicate, we are Casual. If the only answer is Counterspell, then we are dealing with combos and increased power level. It's about the window of opportunity and the availability of answers.

Watched up to 8:08. Yes, coolest thing will be subjective. But that's not a problem, but instead an opportunity for multiple players leave the table feeling as winners. Which is beautiful and not an issue to solve, but to encourage.

Great episode! Love this discussion

I love building jank decks online to test with my friends. I usually never win but I find that im having fun even if I get destroyed. My favorites are probably my 5c Cyclops Tribal and also my Clash Royale themed deck. People always get a kick out of seeing them and it just is fun.

I think becoming an enemy is dumber than making an enemy. If someone blows up a resource or hits you, don't spend the rest of the game dogging on them. You're already behind, start leveraging your resources better.

Richard with the fresh haircut

Crim's philosophy is use the removal when you dont have to and don't when you do

I just have to say that Tomer's Phil impression was 10/10

One of my big things is creating repeatable value! Spot removal is kinda weak but when it's on Attrition which can be used many time it can be a lot better. Or cards that draw cards every turn are a often better in the lond run vs one card that draws 2 or 3!

Richard is the guy at the table to says winning doesnt matter and then sandbags into combo win.

Very fun and interesting conversation. I'd join house Crim, because he's promoting the most interactive playstyle, which is also my idea of having the most fun in a game. If everybody just gets to run their value engines without being interrupted, it usually results in a rather boring game. Gotta have that interaction for some suprises and plot twists within a game!

As a casual Demonic Consultation caster I both object to Crim's statement and I encourage him to try it! Exiling half your library to find Sol Ring is *very funny*

New classes offered online at the University of Phoenix Chick. 😂 I aim for fun, fly low until I'm ready to win, and I like to acknowledge highs even when they're at my expense... I guess you could say I try to be invited back. Though I feel many of my play groups don't build the same synergy as I do, so I end up with an uneven number of wins and usually the play group dwindles in size. At the end of the day, play removal.

props 4 the menzingers shirt!

"The way you beat control players is you make them use the cards in their hand, then you beat them down afterwards". This logic sounds great, in a game where the one colour with limitless counterspells isn't the same one that has limitless card draw. Sure, you can bait out the counterspell they have this turn and hope to cast your important spell next turn, but by then they've 4 counterspells in hand - half of which are free to cast.

it would be an interesting few episodes to see all 4 players adopt each of these "schools" ideology although with richards play the table ideal the games will be quick as it will basically devolve into passive playing as no-one will want to spend their own resources to interact with the table and will just keep "passing the buck"

Strixhaven about to become a back-up school.

I suspect there are going to be elements of each of these if you look through my entire collection of decks. I think individual decks better express these ideas than all of them as a whole, and I tend to pick a deck that's trying to do what I feel like doing for a game, whether it's win ASAP, or create a stagnant hellscape of a game where players consider conceding, or maybe just ramp out big dumb beaters, I build decks around achieving an experience (or sometimes telling a story, yay Vorthos!). I think Casual is an Archetype as well as a mindset, the first rule of Casual imho is that you want to create a fun play experience for the table as a whole, and as there are many things that can make a play experience fun, there are lots of different kinds of Casual decks. I think you could build a deck that is fairly obnoxious, but I think you need to build it with the goal of winning in the end, just creating chaos for it's own sake, with no plan to exploit the situation, is not especially fun.

Richard’s background is so poppin!

My philosophy is always chose violence, life totals go down and i'll spend mine anyway. If i end up as arch enemy i've done something right, if i lose at least people took notice so it's a compliment to my deck.

I'm going to the Tomer college but taking classes at Crim's. I'm of the "make the control player answer me" mindset but I'm also a control player. I want to be up on card advantage but I also want to have answers in case no one else does, which is why I highly value removal that cantrips or does something extra, like I'll play a more restrictive counterspell if it draws me a card before playing counterspell

College of Richard because winning with the Jank Home Brew is the dream.

How is the Canadian the most aggressive? “Don’t be scared” 😂

I a couple of different ideas on creating budget decks for commander. So first of the goal of the budget here isn't to be cheap, but to force to find synergy in less played cards. 1. Don't have a budget, but none of the individual cards are allowed to be above 100 dollars or some other value. 2. Ban the top x most played cards in commander per colour/colour combination. So top 50 blue+50 gruul, etc.

26:40 Tomer does a great richard impression

I second that Tomer. No fear ... I will call your bluff.

Pretty sure I am with the Brewers kitchen culinary experience. With a minor in Toners and Richards School.

I think a good rule on play to be invited back is "don't bluff the board state". Especially if you are combining, if a person with perfect game knowledge could respond to a step in your combo or remove a key peice that makes an attack leathal I think you should let the table have it, and pick your moments better in the future, be open about that to the table. I think that is a big reason combo gets a bad rap often.

I firmly believe in 11 card draw, 11 ramp spells minimum. 4 board wipes 4 targeted removal

I've been really thinking about the "casual is a mindset" kind of thing on my own lately because I'm a very casual player and can't decide if putting Curiosity in a Niv deck crosses a line even if the rest of the deck is very bad lol

This episode makes me feel so much better about having Crim sign my Spreading Plague in Minneapolis 😂😅

This is like watching richards villain monologue about why removal is bad

Easily the coolest premise for a mtg podcast. Love the content, keep it up goldfish "school" lol 😂

The main reason I find combo annoying in casual commander specifically, is that in Magic the way to interact with a combo deck is to attack them and force them to use their resources and try to win before it's guaranteed. In commander, this becomes trivial if 3 players are all ganging up on 1 player, thus forcing them to get knocked out, then sit and wait for an hour whlie everyone else plays a game. However, because casual commander is more about hanging out than it is winning the game, players don't want to gang up on one person even if it's correct to do so. There's actually a lot in common between playing against Tomer's six drop deck and combo decks. In his six drop deck, it's correct to take him out before he gets to six mana because if he does, his average card quality will be much higher than the rest of the players, and he has no defense before that. But no one wants to do that because it feels bad to not let someone play. Unfortunately, this means that the combo player has put the rest of the table in a no win situation, where they have to play incorrectly in order to accomodate the one combo player. To avoid this, the pre-game conversation is there to make sure everyone is on the same page, where either everyone has a combo, or no one does. That way there's no pressure to gang up on one person.

I love tomer's take of "don't be afraid to take the first slice" cuz commander players treat aggro like the office cake.

great speech by seth. i concur.

Richard plays commander like everyone’s least favorite BR player, the rat. Sits and hides until the end and then poaches the win from the actual player that did all the work. I’m 100% with Crim on the alternate wins are always the most fun.

Strixhaven is my favorite mtg set ever

I agree with Tomer on combos. People be like “ew, no combos! I hate combos!” Then they bust out the deck with Triumph of the Hordes and Craterhoof Behemoth. I see why people don’t like combos, I see the argument against Thoracle and Urza Orb, but don’t gripe at me for playing a janky 3-card combo!

Plays Ich-Tekik, Crim-"my worst nightmare"

I've tried not being the Arch-enemy but I just don't enjoy that nearly as much as being the threat. It's just fun.

Saw the poll before the video, still in School of Fun with Crim.

Crim = Slytherin Richard = Ravenclaw Seth = Hufflepuff Tomer = Gryffindor

10:40 - This is generally what happens for me with commander. I build a deck that has all the strong cards and I play it and it wins and it does exactly what it's supposed to. And it's disappointing because it's kind of boring to be so synergistic. I want the janky stuff that never comes off but I know it's in there and the possibility is always there, so I am always making my decks way less powered than they start out. So maybe instead of running Wrath of God, I put in Coercive Portal as a board wipe because there are more steps to it and because three players have to decide that one player is the big threat at the table.

As a targeted blue mage myself, i'll be enrolling in Crim's class.

Toski has a skeleton inside of him. All creatures, cept for Oozes, do! Validate Toski!

Now I want to see a video with crim playing a Nicol Bolas Archenemy EDH deck while playing "cool" stuff

Spreading plague is totally casual. I’m building a 5 color colorless deck because of it.

This was an especially good show chaps, Please do College 201

Crim: Slytherin Tomer: Griffindor Richard: Ravenclaw Seth: Hufflepuff

I have met 1 person who refuses to pay the 1 for rhystic and we managed to reform him through demonstration and a moderate amount of bullying and now people playing rhystic at the shop that I used to go to draw 1-2 cards per game off of it (usually from the removal spells targeting the rhystic study)

For the tempt with discovery point, the biggest counterplay is everyone playing stripmine. Then everyone searches, so tempt with discovery becomes get your 4th best land.

Whenever I play with someone who says they won't pay the 1 I tell them that if they don't I will use every single resource I have for the rest of the game to knock them out. Every attack, every removal spell, anything I have. Usually that gets them to pay the 1 if not then follow up on the promise!

Locking the table with a single bloodmoon is kinda cool tho

The thing I took away from this is that Seth and especially Tomer probably would love the game Monster Sanctuary.

Richard's philosophy: take no game actions unless they win the game.

There is a difference between a Combo Deck and a Deck that contains a combo. I dont mind the latter... because it means that even if you dont pull off the combo, you can still win in other ways. However, if the only purpose of the deck is rush to get the combo, then it doesn't feel like you are playing against me; instead you are playing against your own deck and ignoring your opponents...

I'm torn between Richard and Seth. Can I take a double major and attend both? I do think trying to win is fun but if that's the only way you have fun, you're going to be miserable. It's fun to have secondary objectives like if I cast all three spells and put The Unspeakable One into play it feels like a win even if I lost. I feel finding fun in other conditions is more fun overall. I play a lot of Apex and I do okay overall but I know I won't win often, but I love playing Rampart because something about getting Shiela kills is so much fun even if I'd win more running Seer etc.

I agree with “casual is a mindset, not an archetype” but I disagree with “there is no casual thassa’s oracle”. I run the oracle in my mono-blue Merfolk tribal list, and will genuinely cast it for the card selection. At the same time, I do “technically” have a thoracle win, but it requires a minimum of 3 permenants in play beforehand, and a collective 15 mana at best case scenario. Just thought I’d throw that out there because if there is any real rule I’ve learned in magic, it’s that “every rule has an exception”. So if they wanna say, as a rule, that thoracle is never casual. I am the exception

35:36 Tomer - “I disagree” proceeds to agree 😅

To comment on my win percentage I have a really, really high win percentage in commander My Cedh win rate is above 30% My EDH win rate is like 40+% My most played decks are Tivit, Seller of Secrets as an upgraded precon with a total price of $50 and my Katilda and Lier Humans deck. K&L I built months earlier when the card was spoiled than March of the Machine came out. I do not play any one mana tutors in casual, no rhystic study, etc. I play good cards, but not absolutely insane cards like those. My average deck costs $60. I can't afford to play those cards, but I win anyway. It's just a mindset thing but I win all the time anyway. I don't know what I can do as a player to "win less." I love deckbuilding and I love playing the game. I have been accused of pubstomping all the time Even when I play an unupgraded precon or a deck they lent me. I just play to win. I build to have fun, but play to win. I politic all the time and am very honest; I keep my promises and make a LOT of deals. I pledge my swords to plowshares to draw 3 cards is worth it. Because then I kill a creature and ancestral recall. Boy is that worth it.