What I love best about this channel? It’s that Cap makes sure to tell the viewers that the information about weapons platforms should be regarded as speculative at best. Unlike another channel where the host speaks in definitive factual terms. GR you’ve earned a sub. Thanks for the entertainment.
To solve the timing have one F35 (A) move slower when hot than the cold F35 (B). That way B will catch up and turn hot right before A turns cold, therefore always keep track of a target
Or use 3, one turning out, one turning in and part-way down the racetrack. Or, don't use a racetrack and use a continuous circular orbit, so as one is turning out of the coverage, the other is turning into it at the same time.
Or slowly precess towards the target so the away leg is shorter than the toward leg. Once you decide the goal is achieved or the risk to high you slowly process away. If 2 pairs are used from different directions (say 90 degrees apart) then there is likely to be good coverage with some advantages with the ability to periodically go dark with your partner pair and relocate your race track. Lots to be explored here - I'm sure that gaming these scenarios have actual $$$ value.
Yes, I highly suspect that in this type of environment, F-35s, and possibly F-22s, would be used as AEWs over traditional AWACS. With its world class sensor integration capabilities coupled with its stealth, It’s simply the most logical choice. Plus they can also shoot back if they need to.
It'll be both. The E-7 [that Australia has been using for years already and that the USA and other countries are purchasing] have roughly double the functional range of the E-3. They also have a much better MESA radar system.
@@rebelliousfewThat's just not true. the f22s original radar, the f35s radar that was based on the formers, and the f22s new radar with the same material and tech upgrades as the f35s applied to it are all LPI (low probability of intercept) radars. They are not a giant emission source and not so simple to pick up especially with just rwr. They use beam forming, frequency hopping, and other tricks. Also the f35s got a passive 540° (overlapping) IR sensor array built in, that (before being upgraded, and now due for replacement) can track/target ballistic missiles at 800 miles and in testing was able to track tank shells, all entirely passively.
The 2 F35s I think more likely going orbit of a point rather than racetrack and potentially even tried to find the enemy AEW to send a big stick at one of them as well the Russians only have limited numbers and the more AEW is you take out The long-term benefit
Yeah, having them float around on a track seems like old AWACs thinking. In a real engagement F-35's would probably operate more in a hunter-seeker mode, probing the battle space for new tracks. Decoys would be used and in the future supplemental sensors could be used. B-21 could be another game changer. It could perform the mission of the F-35's seen here.
I'm a little insecure about my range now with all these new missiles on the block but should have seen this coming. AMRAAM literally stands for Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile
13:43 Yes, sm-6 does use the same DPRM as on the sm-3 blkI-Ib and sm-2 blkIV which gives it dual pulses in flight, thus allowing for a flatter trajectory when engaging a aerial target and increasing the pk while engaging ballistic targets.
Having a 3rd F-35 in your "race track" would help also. Spaced out correctly, with 3 in the air, there would be at least 1 facing the enemy at at all times. Just a thought....
The issue that I see with the F-35 as advanced scout is fuel capacity. I think the B-21B would be the ideal forward scout. MUCH more fuel capacity, and internal storage to more than defend itself.
They can put internal fuel tanks inside the F35 if they went pure AWACS but the B21 is overall a better platform for that role. The problem will be its lack of ability to defend itself. At least an F35 has the potential to run away and go supersonic.
Theoretically, I could see a version of the B-2 or B-21 with a passive interception triangulation, and targeting system-low probability of intercept (PITTS-LPI) radar system. Acting as a passive AWACS system telling the missile to "look this way" without radiating it's position.
I'd think most logically the F-35 would be used as hunter killers. I can see AEW F-35 with pellegrines and then the rest of the squadron has 120DS while 4th gen gets the 174 as missile trucks
I don't know if you can program it this way, but I think if you had the F35 going forward on the racetrack at minimum speed and the one going backwards at a faster speed, the 2nd one could return and be on point watching before the first one turns away.
You need to do it with Superhornets and F35c, that’s obviously what US has gone for first for China. They will send the F35Cs in front with the hornets carrying the 174
To solve the race track thing, have the AI going slightly faster when heading home. That way, they will finish the home leg a little earlier and be facing towards the enemies before the 2nd plane finish the tracking leg.
Does the range provided by AIM-174 and mako make the B52 a threat to a Chinese carrier group? If so, how many bombers needed before you can bet on a mission killed carrier?
@@AusExplorer That is how you maximize the potential of the weapon, but a couple of B-52s that can spank a carrier group is using the weapon to maximize the weapons platform.
@@ur_quainmaster7901 This wouldn't be the weapon of choice for attacking a carrier group and a B-52 wouldn't be the aircraft of choice either, since having to launch at 12km+ altitude and how slow B-52s are means they see the B-52s coming for a very long time. Would be a far better choice to use decoys and real anti-ship missiles. You have to remember that, in the current era, a B-52 is basically useless for anything other than uncontested bombing or launching masses of cruise missiles. Anything else is better done with other platforms.
I can't imagine why the Air Force WOULDN"T want the AIM-174B to be able to receive course updates from either the E-2, E-3, or E-7. They have the longest range radars in the inventory, constantly updated communications, and can track the missiles all the way to their targets. The F-35s would have to be close enough to the targets to be at risk of being engaged.
F-18E better choice as Missile truck as it can haul 4 AIM-174B. A-50 is the real target, Russia only has 20 of them and 1 AIM-174B warhead is enough to turn it into chaff. Too bad the game restricts the F-35 ability since they could likely take the SU-35s out with AIM-120D before the SU-35 knows its being attacked. RM-37M is the Russian AIM-54B equivalent, it does not have much of a chance against fighter sized targets.
This... but separate the AEW35s by about thirty or forty miles, and have a second pair in theatre. Have their racetracks pointing twenty or so degrees into the threat axis.
Logistics / attrition - after two years at war what has Russia got left? replacement pilots ? aircraft ? weapons ? Russian strategy uses a lot of brute force and "just good enough" equipment. Whereas the US go for the very best. And lots of it.
How about have F-35's go in a small circle instead of a racetrack so that the lost of coverage is short and you don't have the long leg of the racetrack between the hot F-35 and the target?
Man, if you could get these F-35s timed right and figure out how to get them to fire they would be fantastic. Imagine loading them with a few ADM-160 MALD-J/X. Some 100 were fired during the opening stages of Desert Storm and would likely be a part of any op against a near peer.
I still think the E-7 would do a better job than the F-35s. Stealth becomes less stealthy when they are beaming their radars constantly from the same place. Would Russia not lob some R-27EPs over there? [air to air anti-radiation missiles] They wouldn't even really have to be in parameters, they'd show up on radar and the potential target aircraft would have to make a decision to either risk it and stay on course guiding the AIM-174s or evade. I think most likely, they'd pair some F/A-18s with 4x AIM-174 with an E-7 [they both should pair well with a 500km+ range] and an F-35 screening group. Also their target would be enemy AWACS and other high value command and control aircraft. Enemy fighters would be hit by AIM-260s from the F-35s. There would probably be some EA-18G Growlers on station to run cover if the E-7 was ever at risk itself.
No, apg-81 has a LPI mode that decreases the risk of its radiation being intercepted, plus the f35 has asq239 barracuda that is to be able to simply track enemy through radiation they emitted, possibly even guide a missile to it. E-7 will be more of an electronic warfare or ballistic missile tracking platform.
Excellent demo; lots of comments here. I am not sure we would know short of live fire scenarios. Hey CAP, I know this would take a lot of work: what of a scenario where aircraft cover an evacuation -- a modern Dunkirk of sorts. I play another simulation and I know it would be a lot work. I would be interesting to see how that would fare with pilots who are not AI. Thanks for all the work.
A question about the F-35s acting as AWACS : I get that they're very stealthy, and can't be seen by the Russian AWACS or SAM site outside of perhaps 30 miles; but the F-35s will need to be continuously emitting their own radar pulses. Surely the Russians will detect those? And will they not eventually develop an air-to-air anti-radiation missile to address this threat?
Point of Historical Interest? Boris Safonov (name on the Foxhound) was a WW2 Russian Fighter Ace twice awarded the "Hero of the Soviet Union" (Герой Советского Союза) medal.
I do not think the traditional AWACS will be obsolete so quickly, with dedicated F22/F35/Loyal wingman (AI or remote pilot) aircraft providing AEW support in contested airspace would allow the AWACS to operate in protected airspace providing "quarterback" support. The advantage of the AWACS is providing big picture coverage with dedicated air traffic controllers that only have to analyse and relay information on the airspace environment to pilots and not fly as well. Eventually the AWACS would be phased out and moved to land or ship based air traffic controllers when there is sufficient loyal wingman aircraft operating to provide the same big picture airspace coverage. How about using the F23 Widowmaker to simulate loyal wingman aircraft operating at high altitude, 80,000+ ft or higher if possible, providing forward AEW coverage and AWACS protection. You could use them in pairs to simulate 1 aircraft with 1 of the pairs being AEW and the other pair being AWACS defense or possible offensive option (dependant on DCS AI capabilities, maybe use human pilot simulating a remote piloted loyal wingman). Both of these aircraft would have to stay in formation as much as possible and if 1 is lost the other is destroyed/deactivated/removed. I think loyal wingman aircraft are more likely to operate as much as possible at higher altitudes (80,00-120,00ft) then crewed aircraft as they do not need life support as no human, higher altitude allows them to operate closer to target area without being detected and makes them harder to target by human pilots and air traffic controllers as this operating height makes the battle space larger and therefore more difficult to manage effectively.
Somebody makes a fun and interesting video of a PC game featuring planes and weapons who's specifications and capabilities are not known, and viewers complain about realism
@@grimreapersyour reply was unnecessary. All I did was give you good advice. All you need to do is stop the video less to talk more than there is viewing of the actual simulation. Blocking me like you just did will not do you any good. I can do this all day, sir. Instead of acting bitter, take the advice on board. Cheers 👍
Super Cap asks why the missiles have lofted so high. 10 seconds later, Super Cap actually gives the answer to this question without realising. Lol. I have to say, those SU35s sure didn't defend very hard. I was watching the missle G meter, one spiked to 10g for a moment only, the other got the intercept at about 2g without even breaking a sweat. R37 seekers seem to be failing today, I feel like I have been seeing this on the GS videos as well. There was an update, they were very good before that but now curiously often lose track in the last moments.
Could you arm an F-15 ex with a bunch of little peregrine or kuda missiles like you did the NGAD But instead of having them use these small shoret range misisles as air-air wepaons, use them as defensive interceptors. The IRIS-T irl already jave this feature optionally for some Eurofighter variants, where the jet fires the fox-2 in the direction of an incomming pitbull missile with the push of a si gle button, hopin gthr IRIS-T can do a missile-missile intercept. Could you try this out with the much longer range peregrine that will have more time to attempt interception, and cna be carried in lage nulbers by old platforms?
Once they turn on their radars they are "detectable". In my opinion, if you want to use stealth aircraft for weapon AEW and weapons guidance, you would need at least two separate racetracks with the aircraft turning their radars on and off in a coordinated way. It would be similar to an airborne IADS with the stealth aircraft acting as an extension of the AWACS.
@@Utubesuperstar If they emit/transmit, they can be detected. To what extent the opponent can exploit it may currently be questionable, but I'm sure all sides are working on updating their systems to account for frequency agility and power modulation. They won't be able to get range, but bearing would be detectable. Think about it like this, you are in a field on a moonless night. Someone shines a strobing light in your direction. With each strobe, the color and brightness changes (frequency and amplitude change). You may not know how far away the source is from you, but you know its bearing, and you are aware of it before it is aware of you. It will also be interesting to see how far way data-link transmission are detectable... Just my thoughts
@@jasonadams560 eyes and rwrs don’t work the same way there is a myriad of background radiation that they have to filter out which is why lpi radars work
@@jasonadams560 That is not true. AESA radars are not detected the same way. Their radars do not return directly to the aircraft. They use over the horizon bouncing of radio waves on the ionosphere to get a signal. Therefore you may know that you are being pinged by a radar, but you have no idea where from.
Dear Cap, concerning the capability of the Aim 174B I recommend Millenium 7Star. He made an interesting video about it, even though I’m not sure that he is correct I would love to hear your opinion.
Thought for this type of thing - what range does the data link have and is it detectable? Would that ruin the stealth of the F35's? Limit the max range of the shot?
DCS needs an easier way of activating mods. Like I don't want to go into game files just to add a mod. Please let's get something so we can mod easily!!!!!!
Did I miss something, or at the F-35s emitting? Wouldn't that light them up like a christmas tree? I thought that IRL the idea is they will use passive systems as much as possible - there's not much point being stealthy otherwise.
IRL, the F-35 has an advanced frequency hopping radar. This frequency hopping makes it very difficult to detect its emissions. Not sure how this is handled in DCS tho
Hey Cap, would you like to check out the Germany Asset Pack that CH just posted? I imagine a scenario where you put different eras of German GBAD against 3 waves of Russian attack (Being Mi-8s + Su-25s with rocket pods, Mi-24 + Su-24 with basic ATGM, then Ka-52 + Su-30 with better ATGM & glide bombs) You could have: Stage 1 (late 1970s): Gepard and FlaRakRad/Roland Stage 2 (1980s-90s): Patriot and Ozelot Stage 3 (2020s): IRIS-T SLM and Boxer SPAAGM/Skynex Maybe throw the Sachasen Frigate in there too?
Leave it be. I'm just happy Cap is making engaging and interesting videos. It matters naught wether the boys are involved or not. Just kicking back and enjoying that this is content we can still get.
Much is being made of the new "cheap bomb" that can sink a UK carrier. After a quick search on the subject all I can find is a reference to a "quicksink" bomb which is basically a 2000lb JDAM with a gps guidance kit on it dropped by a B2 bomber . This would be a nice one to re create ????
The quicksink bomb is interesting. A 2000lb bomb that doesn't hit the target but hits the water right next to the target, delays a second or so and then explodes. IF the timing is correct the bomb will be below the bottom of the target ships hull when it explodes. That explosion will push the water out from beneath the target ship which is supposed to cause the ship's back to break. The problem with the quicksink is you have to effectively get into visual range to drop it on a moving target. While an interesting even with a B2/B21/F35 stealth aircraft, the odds of even that type of aircraft penetrating a group of ships defensive ring and dropping a quicksink bomb (visual range so less than 15nm) and then surviving to make it back to base is not high. It would be good to hit a convoy after an ASCM strike or submarine has taken out the escorts.
@@qfinck The only effective way I can see of delivering such a weapon is from a satellite in low earth orbit?... and would assume satellites are just as vulnerable?
It's literally designed for this role though. Whether it's an F15 or another F35 firing the missile it's designed for the leading F35 in stealth configuration to be guiding it in as a mini AWACS.
Actually, the HBTSS will Detect, Analyze, Plot a firing solution, Check the inventory of available counter measures, Download the interception parameters, then launch the counter measure remotely, Guide it to the target and then assess the threat again in case it needs to be re-engaged again. Russian and Chinese Stealth will be useless, HBTSS works like this; ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-h7pfH12IoNw.html
Dear reapers I always wondered what would happen if the iowa class battleship would hold up versus Yamato or the Bismarck would this battle ever happen on your simulations
@@grimreapers certain components on the missiles yes, the datalink has not been upgraded, plus their computing power does not 'look ahead' the nato missles as an example do thousands of computation a second and will adjust trajectory to ensure a hit whereas the russian components try and update and then 'see' if the change has workered, by the time it says no it hasnt worked it cannot react fast enough
shh let me tell you something... USA has missiles that can target missiles... Just like Torpedoes have been used against torpedoes for 25+ years but no sub game has ever let you do it.... I wonder why ?
Russian aircraft would know the F-35s were there through RWR and wide-band radars. Additionally, having the F-35s turn around like that would expose their non-stealthy rears, meaning they could be fired upon. Also, much like US aircraft, the Russians would turn around and run away as soon as they fired/were fired on.
An F-15EX has a payload capacity in excess of 29,000 lbs and an AIM-174B weighs less than 2,000 lbs. Even the older F-15C has a payload capacity of 16,000 lbs.
Cap To my knowledge a program along the lines of future weapons/us propaganda pice showed off you have one / a pair nose hot that pincer targets on radar data link to a pack cold full stealth trailing the hot target track and data guid enemy gets one or two radar pings then receives a barrage from the stealth or from out of range forths If as shown in the pice mentioned above don’t do race track but act as point man ahead
It's the Chinese. Everyone in this comment section has a higher chance of working for or aspiring to work for the US and allied militaries so they want to get you hooked on only fans girls instead of developing new technology for the US military.
@@gigganigga262 I mean, that’s just what stealth does in general. And there aren’t enough Su-57’s available to make any kind of meaningful difference. Plus idk if the R-37 can even fit Inside the Su-57’s weapons bay, which would make it no longer stealth
@@christopherchartier3017 and i did some research the Su57 weapons bay is 4,4m long and 0,9m wide and the R37 is 4,04m long and 0,38m wide. So it can fit on there.
the SU57 is said to have additional L band radar. if they have a transferable data link, they would likely see its opponents even before the f35. I think the above would make for a good video.
@FlyingWithSpurts from what I've seen, the su57 has 2 l band radar panels behind the wing leading edge at the wing roots. too my knowledge, the f34 is not equipped as such. the l Band would allow for first eyes on target, which in turn would give an upper hand on setting up target and kill chain in a defensive manner.
@@johnaikema1055 Those are the IFF antennas. a 1x6 element 2-d array is unable, even if steered, to provide the angular resolution needed for detection or tracking. I also bought into the whole L-Band radar anti Stealth story back in 2009, I have since educated myself more on radars.
@FlyingWithSpurts if that's the case, then no worries. if they are L band, yes they will not have full tracking resolution, but that data could be used to set up the attack using all available assets. that is a big upper hand.
@FlyingWithSpurts for example, that l band data could potentially be used to avoid the f35 and get an earlier x band track on the f15s. even though the L band resolution is poor, its data is still very relevant if used correctly.
Great video as always, but this wouldn’t be very realistic, let me explain: F-35’s can not effectively share datalink information to 4.0/4.5 gen aircraft that is consistent enough to provide real-time data for targeting and tracking information of nimble, fighter-sized aircraft, and there’s a reason for this. All the older platforms, including most naval systems, use Link 16 Datalink, which normally transfers at 115 Kbits/s and can max out at 1 Megabits/s, and this is the same in how much they can receive. This is enough to share information from 5th to 4th gen aircraft on general directions of enemy vessels and large, slow moving airborne targets, such as AEWACS and refueling tankers since this uses less bandwidth, but the bandwidth limitations on Link 16 Datalink do not allow the sharing of targeting and tracking information necessary to effectively guide in missiles on a nimble fighter aircraft, at least between an F-35 acting as an AEWACS for a 4th gen aircraft. While the F-35 most certainly can do all of these on their own obviously, it can’t transfer the necessary data that is required to say, an F-15 or F-16, due to those 4th gen aircraft using the lesser advanced Link 16 Datalink that can only accept so much datalink information from an F-35’s own datalink before latency and bandwidth limitation issues occur, which is something you obviously don’t want when targeting and guiding a missile to a highly maneuvering aircraft. So, to simplify everything, an F-35 can not share sufficient enough datalink information to any 4th gen aircraft due to the limitations and incompatibility of the Link 16 Datalink, since the F-35 uses what’s called the MADL (Multifunction Advanced Data Link) system, which is much more modern and capable than the Link 16 Datalink that you will find on all 4th gen aircraft and most naval systems, with the exception of the Baseline 9 AGEIS Combat System, which uses the MADL system. If you’re interested, you can find plenty of in-depth articles regarding MADL and Link 16 Datalink.
I don't think there's any way you can improve on the synchronising of the two F-35s' racetracks to give earlier detection than you had there. Not unless you knew exactly when the Su-35s would be crossing the radar horizon - and that would be cheating. 🙂
