Van Halen Transition From Sunset Sound to 5150 & Why 1984 Is Such A Good Album. 

I think you nailed it.

In 1990, when the studio was renovated and the drum room added, they got the best drum sounds on any Van Halen album. The drum sound Alex always wanted was finally realized. His signature snare sound was never heard on the early albums and only became noticeable slightly on “Fair Warning,” moreso on “Diver Down” and fully on “1984” forward.

@@johnconk1 that was also around the time that Ted Templeman came back to help finish the FUCK album which is why that album has such a bolder sound than 5150 and OU812.

Agree with most of what you said. But 5150 sounded dreadful? LOL Sure. Right.

@Titus Flavious is that supposed to be a joke?

I know....

Eddies death was too soon. He gave it his all to survive. It was and still is a sad time over Eddie. He was a light that dimmed , but his memories are forever.

Maybe the talented youth are watching and listening and wont smoke cigarettes and never use drugs!

Hellz Yeah!!

Yes totally agree!! I also like that they got a young guy to host it. My son watches it with me and he’s only 14. We have to keep this history alive and fresh

@@caramelapple4493 Yes we do❗ These videos put the loving fans on the inside. Something fans my age , 52, did not think could ever happen. My son is 27 and he truly enjoys Van Halen and a good bit of the 80's big hair bands. He's a treasure.

This entire discussion is a series of excuses, while carefully avoiding the elephant in the room. Van Halen didn't feel like paying Sunset millions of dollars for stuff they could do themselves. It sounds like 3 ex-girlfriends trying to explain why their boyfriends left them. "Well, the decision was mutual... we were just wrong for each other... actually, I kicked HIM out!". Yeah... right.

Well said you had to be alive back then.....thecbuzz around 1984 and Jump was huge And when the video came out .....they hit the stratosphere

I think Ed really pushed for Jump . The rest of the band seemed against it . For one , the keyboards . Dave said before that the band is a guitar band and wasn't too much for it because #2 how would you play the song live ? At the time the sequencers weren't that sophisticated . When Sam got in the band the sequencers got more sophisticated and you could easily play prerecorded keyboards .

I was about the same age when 1984 came out, and was also disappointed. I loved their debut album, II, women, and children first, and fair warning. At the time Diver down, and 1984 got some serious hate from me. I still do not like the Diver Down album, but have learned to like 1984 over the years.

@@METALMAN-gp2kw I liked Diver Down when it first came out because I wasn't really into VH yet but i first heard Dancing in the Streets on the radio when it first came out in the summer of 82 and i immediately could tell Eddie's mastery of the guitar from the solo, plus i liked the energy of the song because it was better and newer sounding than anything that was on pop radio at the time. It was just good party rock. That winter was when me and my friends would hang out and start listening to VH and we would party to Diver Down all the time but of course the all time favorite go to album was Fair Warning. Funny thing is i never liked WACF as much as the other albums back then but I love listening to it now, I think it's rough and raw and shows the band in it's crazy partying prime. I love Eddie's attitude on that album.

Not a good album . Very disappointing. That was it for me. I hardly listen to it.

I was about the same age too and your description of how you felt was EXACTLY how I felt. I also would, and do, get transported back to that time when I listen to it now.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

EXACTLY.

Ed and Ted battled on Fair Warning. Doug Messanger confirmed on one of these interviews where he said Ed changed parts on Unchained behind Ted’s back

House of Pain 🤘

Pretty much everything except Jump, lol!

@@erikkroll2154 I don't get why some don't like Jump. I'm not big on keyboards in general and sure I love Full Bug and Unchained and Romeo Delight etc, but Jump really displays Ed's personality. Ed was a happy guy and Jump captures that. I have always thought Ain't Talkin Bout Love was VH's weakest tune and Ed thought so too.

Spot on! Panama and Hot For Teacher though popular, never lit my torch!

@@DrummingMan1 Agreed! Especially Panama, but I’ll Wait is a song I will skip over every single time. It ranks up there with the sub par Van Hagar love songs 👎🏻

Thank your buddy Ted for that.

Agree 100% ...

We only cover sunset stuff

Not for the smokers.

Fatally so.

Nothing compared to the train to Chicago in 1982. 🚬

They did put in air filters and as well the air conditioner talked about ,as there's a new documentary about 1984 on The Tapes Archive channel and in it he talks about the building of 5150!

With everything else they were doing, I think that was the last of their concerns, and it was Eddie’s space to do as he pleased. Kind of the point being a rich rockstar is having the capital to do what you want, when you want.

Wonder the smile he had on his face when he was tracking “eruption” at sunset

Amsterdam. Great song.🙂👍👏👏👏❤❤❤

@@rossforrest there wasn’t one time during the tracking of VH1 that EVH wasn’t smiling

The thing is they all knew they were going to be big, the issue is was how, so getting that chance would be big, but 5150 studio was all Ed. David has caused enough problems for Ed and he felt 5150 was his free space

agreed

It wasnt Dave and Ted that pushed Diver Down. When Warner Bros says its time to make an album, its time to make an album. Also VH was literally a cover band so why wouldnt or shouldnt they make a full album of covers? Not only that but they nailed every single cover, giving fresh life to every single one. And dont forget Diver Down allowed for Jan Van Halens contribution and introduced him to all of us. Will never understand how ppl can crap on Diver Down then call themselves "fans".

The relationship with Teddy Templeman started with the making of FAIR WARNING . Ed didn't want to keep adding cover tunes for each album . Teddy felt differently . There were some big arguments during the making of FAIR WARNING . Eddie really fought for it . And personally , after all the years and changes to the band , I still think FAIR WARNING is the best Van Halen album .

I don’t think that’s fair to Ted. Ted is a smart man and saw Ed’s talent and signed the band. He already knew Eddie was special because he could write hard rock songs with a pop sensibility. Ted had no issues with Ed’s writing ability. They had little time to do that album and Ted always felt covers were smart because they were hits already before so you’re halfway there. Diver Down is an important part of VH history. It revealed another side of the band.. “Big Bad Bill” is a genius cover. The original songs Ed wrote are brilliant

@@johnconk yeah? He made millions off the band while the band got screwed with their first contract . If you read any interview Ed did in the beginning you'd learn Donn Landee is the main reason all the first 8 albums sound so great .

Completely on point! And Ed would agree with everything you just said. 👏

Edward and Alex (as history would later show) were both very passive aggressive and impulsive. I think their heavy drinking and mutual dislike of Dave encouraged them to try to manipulate the situation to their advantage... not aware that Ted was more aware of their behavior than they suspected. After the band broke up, Edward would do his utmost to paint Dave as the selfish bad guy while he (Edward) just wanted to make music and have fun. Hearing Dave's side of things, Dave was frustrated with the starts and stops of Edward's time tables. Dave was a professional and wanted VH to prosper with a more strict discipline than the VH brothers wanted. I think Ted gravitated toward Dave's business mind, but knew the money was in the genius of Edward.

@@swordmonkey6635 Well, those interviews in media were like a Tennis Match .....You had charge,,,,Counter charge,,,,counter counter, charge, Counter, counter, counter ....IS ANYONE COUNTING ?....lol ....Everyone was psychoanalyzing everyone else & claiming the moral high ground.....lol

@@walterevans2118 I don't believe this was true initially. It was Van Hagar's side that threw the first mud as Dave kept his focus on the EEAS band. Check out the early interviews and shows... banners, banter, mocking the classic songs and Volkswagen/Porshe references from the VH side whilst Roth ignored it up to a point where he just had to go in and bat for himself as they were tearing him apart in the media (toothache, dictator, movie star, can't sing, 11 years of living a lie etc.)

@@goodquestion1105 Well, I guess its all water under the bridge now really......The thing about Ed & Dave is that even though they had their differences in their initial years they built up a great commonality of experience as a band unit.....Before ED passed away they had these wonderful interview chats (Ed, Dave & Alex) about their early years & they were re-connecting & forgiving each other.

Some people in the media would lap up all the conflict & insults. I didn't...I remember VH from 1978 onwards & it was kind of painful for me to see...I liked both Dave & Ed...Ed was very generous about Vai & Sheehan describing them as 'The hottest guns, & two of the best around'.....The Volkswagen/Porsche stuff I even recognize from a Musician Magazine VH interview in Feb 1986 by J. D Considine ....Looking back, some of the stuff that was said about Dave in that wasn't very nice really...It must have been horrible for Dave to read that.......& also all the silly stuff in 1996 ten yrs later nearly getting into a Jeet Kune Do fight over talk about hip replacements....lol.....But there are so many things these guys shared earlier on which were so positive....Ed kissing Dave at the 2007 tour press conference...The funny stuff about being on tour going back to the 1980s...Dave pointing his radio in a funny direction & picking up Big Bad Bill on this strange radio station & getting the idea to do it with Ed & Alex's Dad Jan,,,,The bras being thrown up on stage & Dave joking -'Its too big to be Valerie's'...lol....The way Dave would take over in interviews & the host would look like a rabbit caught in the headlights & Ed would be trying not to laugh....Wrecking hotels & then getting thrown out because a pillow was missing...lol....Being signed up to do the 1983 US Festival & then Dave & his Security people ringing up going - 'But we CAN'T' .....'Why can't you ?..Is Wozniac not giving you enough' ? ........'NO, WE'RE STUCK IN THE JUNGLE !!!...In SOUTH AMERICA' ! .....hahaha....They were great times.....They outshine all the negative stuff.....DAVE KNOWS.....Go & listen to the lyrics of his new track - 'Somewhere , Over the Rainbow Bar & Grill ...(Well, I never knew me a better time & I guess I never will) .

Totally agree, and it's so obvious!

The quietude of 2am-5am is when the magic happens. No matter what kind of writer you are. Whoever said "nothing good ever happens past 10 pm" probably wrote that at 3am.

Agree 100%. It's just a musical master-piece. And yeah - listen to it on a really nice stereo, and equalized nicely to your taste... or even on phones. It's just an amazing piece of music - all of it. Edward was just an absolute musical genius. The things he was hearing... and then writing it, and laying it down.... Wow!

And... the most important factor of all, that no one seems to remember... Valerie was banned from Sunset Sound for causing so m8uch drama with Dave. Eddie denied it and Dave refuses to talk about it. So read between the lines.

@@Me-qp8vz Really ? ....Blimey......Does that come from the folks here who worked at Sunset Sound ?..I know Valerie might have defended ED's corner but I didn't know it was THAT strong. I know Valerie possibly didn't like Dave at times. She was on record in interviews as saying that Dave's clever quickfire was so overwhelming that some people could feel overpowered by it ..& that might have inadvertently caused resentment.....Being in its presence could feel a bit like being in the ring against ALI ....You'd feel like you were being hit by so many punches from so many angles you felt you were surrounded....But then, that's just DAVE ....I don't think it is an artifice as Sammy claims....What I heard was in Sunset Sound Dave was always a true professional in the recording process ....Before it broke up again in 1996 he was 'a trooper' recording the vocal stuff for those two great tracks at 5150....Dave was going to do a movie thing just after 1985 & maybe at this time Dave & Ed just had different agendas which clashed.....In the media most people loved the conflict of ED vs Dave,,,,5150 album vs Eat 'Em & Smile' album,,,& the 0U812 ? ....& 'Dave was like Gaddafi' ,,,& 'I'll rise to the challenge & Eat you for breakfast pal'...Lets get angry with each other about hip replacement ...lol....With hindsight all as DAFT as a BRUSH really...lol...The audiences LAPPED it up as all media rock 'n roll war but to be honest I used to WINCE at it...I found it unbearably sad because my mind kept going back to what I'd witnessed in Finsbury Park in the UK that night in 1979 when I was 16...ED was the ultimate Rock guitar innovator & Dave was the ultimate kinetic frontman & hearing them go at each other was like seeing Mozart fighting Ali. You wanted them to f*cking STOP screwing each other over ! (To quote the late great Neil Peart - 'I see the Gods in Battle rage on high..Thunderbolts across the sky...I cannot move I cannot hide...I feel a silent SCREAM begin inside').......To be fair further down the line they DID learn to forgive each other....On those 2 tours with Wolf & in those WONDERFUL B&W interviews where Ed, Dave & Alex all laughed about the old Days when they were a hyper functioning UNIT ('Like a pack of Dogs, where are we going next' fellas kind of thing) ...& even though they were still completely different personalities they were ontologically feeling the wonderful sense of camaraderie they once had all over again & learning to forgive each other...Which was just beautiful.

Rock !!

@@walterevans2118 props for tossing in the Peart lyrics... nailed it. Bravo. ..Still heartbroken about both of these heroes passing.

@@RaptorV1USA YES.....NEIL was a GENIUS.....He was a BRILLIANT Drummer. Just extraordinary.....I saw him live on the Tour of the Hemispheres in 1979 ,,,two months before I saw Van Halen on their World Vacation tour for VH 2 ......Rush I saw at the Hammersmith Odeon......VH at the Rainbow Theatre......Both in London 79.

KITTY PERCY ...Well, I'M BIASED myself in ED's direction because I'm a GUITARIST...lol

What Don Landee did the first 4 albums was GENIOUS !!

There is absolutely nothing to be found about Don online. Is he still alive?

@@steves9045 he is He still lives in California Greg Renoff is supposed to be writing a biography with him

I heard about that but no time table for release has been announced.

@@dumaflotchy13 uh , 8 albums . He worked til OU812 .

I'll wait has one of Ed's most amazing solos. 1984 was a masterpiece.

Hey, Wanna say thank you for liking my music and believing in me. It’s indeed a moral push, you were picked as an active RU-vid Fans Subscribers to have a live session with me, I’m using this little free time of mine to appreciate the love and hope you’ll never grow tired listening to my music. You can reach me via sammyhagar021@gmail.com

Buried in the mix? Unchained has a HUGE bass sound. Most of Fair Warning tracks are drop D, and the lower bass is pivotal for those tunes. Actually I do think you’re right about the bass being reduced but I actually think that was more of a factor starting with Diver Down.

"So This is Love" mixed is based around the bass guit.

By Women & Children EVH was already starting to take over bass recordings. You just can't argue with a guitar genius ... they want what they want.

​@@dumaflotchy13Uh , Ed was right though .

yes, indeed.

Yes indeed.

Yes indeed (triple one)....llol

or when they´re doing tons of dope

That’s not totally fair to producers. There is a part in the Metallica doc where Kirk was trying to put down any old solo for Nothing Else Matters and Bob Rock would not let him do it. He really pushed Kirk to be better and it worked. It’s not a totally apt comparison as Eddie was a perfectionist but its just an example of a producer actually adding something constructive.

Exactly!

Women and Children First doesn't get the respect it deserves

2, 1, 5 in that order for me for the desert island, but I absolutely love the other three albums....lol. Those 6 Dave albums were magnificent, plain and simple.

Van Halen 1 and 1984... best vh albums ever. Great album is a great album irrespective of whether it is a commercial success.

@@ricomajestic - like i wrote different strokes for different folks. Its not that it was a blockbuster success, all of Van Halens albums were successful. It was too slick for my tastes, i liked van halen's rawness. I though 84 was too smooth sounding overall, with panama and hot for teacher being by far the best cuts.

And, funfact :: DLR's Keyboard Player on " Eat 'em & smile" and on Tour, was Jesse Harms. The former Keyboard player for.... Sammy Hagar !

Yeah but it wasn’t Eddie playing them, he thought Eddie should stick to guitar being how amazing he was. I loved 1984 but when I only heard jump I was thinking wth is this poppy stuff so I get where Dave was coming from to a certain degree then 5150 came out and I completely got what Dave was saying. That was to light for my taste.

I should add, there was nothing wrong with the sound on the other albums, they just didn't do it for "me".. much like the production on later albums for many of my favorite bands didn't really get me fired up.. in some cases the later albums were better. Rush, comes to mind. I really really liked their early production. I like Metallica Kill 'em All production better than Master of Puppets. I just like the mix better. I could go on but it doesn't really matter these are just my preferences.

Sunset sounded big and open. Lots of air and ambiance. 5150 sounded stuffier and muted. The guitars on the first 4 albums vs 1984 are night and day.

It was zoned residential. So he lied to the city and said he was building a racquetball court.

Watch the Dweezil Zappa interview on this channel. He tells the whole story

@@sunsetsoundrecorders thanks 👍

I'd like to follow up with saying Don Landee is a freakn enigma among engineers. There are things he did that have never been done since, odd little things that have to just dawn on you - conceptually - that I doubt can be taught or even learned or written down with enough detail to be properly conveyed. If he was on board, I can't imagine anyone, even Templeman, being like ''Uh, I don't know, man''. In a way, I hope that Landee stays silent because there's no point in him spilling all his beans - if you are worthy of doing those things you'll figure it out, but if he has to tell you you're probably not worthy. In another way, there's about 99.9999% of me that would sell a nut to buy his book or sit in an audience to hear him speak for 7 days straight lol

Yes, that’s correct.

@@david25876 read that somewhere...

Hagar is a whiney, insecure, pathological liar. Roth at least is legit.

The assertion that the singers were the problem is not quite consistent considering they changed singers like 5 times

For me, after 1984 VH was dead. The Van Hagar era blew. I like the covers they did and the variety... (Really Got Me, Where Have All The Good Times Gone, Dancing in the Streets, Pretty Woman, You're No Good, Big Bad Bill, Ice Cream Man..) I wish they had recorded a studio version of Jean Genie, as heard in bootlegs... DLR has said, he was the Fun in Van Halen... he was correct. It was way less fun after he left.

The talking point EVH & Sammy Hagar worked was that Roth was a jerk and no one could work with him and his ego. But over time one can see that EVH was actually the one with the ego and jealousy issues. He would get jealous of his singers/frontmen and get impatient with them. Just like he did with Roth, EVH eventually came to hate “nice guy” Sammy and booted him from the band in 1996. Even hated him/wouldn’t talk to him on the 2004 “reunion” tour. EVH hired Cherone b/c he wanted a beta male singer he could control. And when that didn’t work out he booted him and brought Roth back. EVH was supremely talented but in his jealous mind, the singers were getting the limelight & glory for his musical greatness. And Sammy Hagar is a liar and a musical lunkhead. Van Hagar was commercial corporate rock.

@@rangepuppiesI tend to ignore the Hagar stuff. For me it’s too formulaic.

And I know its not about this,and it's certainly not one of my personal favorites, but wasn't "Jump" their first number one record? Just Sayin!

Fair Warning, Women and Children First , Diver Down we’re all worked on at sunset

@@sunsetsoundrecorders With the DIVER DOWN album it would be interested in knowing which tracks were cut at Sunset & which at Amigo Studios.

Diver Down was recorded at Warner Studios. The only one I their catalog to do so. I think that and FW sound best. Okay hi the chambered guitar sound on VH1 is sublime even tho Eddie didn’t like it drenched like that.

Why

@@bls8959 Because of a more Smooth Sound of guitar.

IYO

@@sunsetsoundrecorders Agreed…It’s like critiquing a Picasso. Every VH album done at Sunset still holds up to this day, which in itself is amazing. They don’t sound dated at all…

Yup . I read about that in a Classic Rock magazine from a few years back . It also discussed Ed doing a favor for Michael Jackson

Stability of the walls?

Great question

I would imagine that there is a budget for recording costs and yes, it went Eddie.

@@glengamble526 Actually, by not going to Sunset, they were not billed, However they were still having to pay Don and they had to pay him more because he was in 5150 a lot more. So, 1984 probably costed a lot more because Van Halen would know out albums at Sunset in 2 or 3 weeks. But the album was a huge hit and made a lot of money.

Yep. I LOVED that album. Wore it out .... several times over. And loved what Sammy brought to the table, and how the Band re-invented itself, and still rocked. Also- so so musical. But then.... I have loved every VH album that has come out. VH3 my least fave... but I even liked that one. Just the greatest Band in history. period. Edward was our Mozart.

Where did you hear the drums were sampled? Alex used Simmons toms (with plastic surfaces mic'd to boot!) and bass drum, but the snare and cymbals were acoustic. I also read that on some songs (like Dreams), Alex would do cymbals-only overdub tracks. Pound for pound, I've gotten many more miles out of that album than any of their others, though I love nearly everything they've done.