Vitamin B6: Did It Increase NAD? (Test Results) 

Thanks thezquad. I'm sending blood for another NAD analysis on Monday 5/29 (~35 mg of B6/d), so more data will be coming relatively soon!

Thanks Vedran, but I disagree about the NMN washout maybe not being long enough. Note that 300 mg NMN didn't impact NAD (~25um with, without), and it was 49d after using NMN that I saw 30 uM with B6.

@@conqueragingordietrying123 you have 4 observations and 2 parameters, did you have take a basic statistics class? You cannot perform experiments like this on your N=1 own self and then draw conclusions on basis of that. This entire channel is a total joke and your "results" would probably be the same if you did none of this hilarious statistical quackery and just had a healthy diet and good exercise scheme

@@conqueragingordietrying123 I don’t think I’m understanding. Why not continue nmn with a high score of 39? I usually can follow your videos but I have to ask. I also don’t supplement with either supplements.

@@seanolivas9148 Sure, I could continue with NMN, but I'm interested addressing root problems. Why is my NAD relatively low? it's not because of sub-optimal niacin or apigenin intake, but could be suboptimal B6, which I covered in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zqzCMt8YwRo.html

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Thank you for clarifying that you are looking for the root cause. You are like an honest introspective scientific detective. Fun stuff. Thank you for your content. We enjoy the journey. Cheers!

Thanks @exponentialagroforestryini4381. Here's more info: I sent blood for NAD analysis on Monday, testing the grape seed powder-NAD experiment...

Thanks John. I'd recommend NAD testing, to see if you can get the NAD- raising effect of relatively high NMN (1000 vs 300 mg/d in my case), but with B6 (PLP) instead.

Thanks Mark, I agree about blood vs tissue NAD. For those experiments, in aged animals would be good-as far as I know, B6 supplementation within that context for NAD hasn't been studied yet, but maybe I'll propose it in a grant!

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Assuming oral B6 survives first-pass metabolism intact, you might just find yourself becoming an accidental NAD longevity celebrity, if you do propose it! 😁

@@conqueragingordietrying123 then measuring it in representatives of the immune system as well. Would become an interesting multifactorial-multitissue design...

It works. I have a special way to use B6, etc.

@@TravisTellsTruths because you are a bot? any details?

Agreed. I take the b complex and nutritional yeast. Dr Greger in one of his video indicates excess b12 is dumped out by body.

@@debstayblessed9549 I am not sure that excess b12 is dumped out of the body based on my experience. When I was supplementing daily, my levels were above the highest measurement on the lab tests. When I supplemented once a week, they went back to normal. Also, the liver can store 3-5 year's worth of B12 at a time (according to Merk Manuals), so perhaps that might also relate to storage and whether one can overstore..

be careful with nutritional yeast. introduces a lot of pyrine leading to uric acid, with further consequences towards fatty liver

Thanks K J. NMN was from Jinfiniti, B6 (PLP) from bulksupplements.com. I made my own solution (1g PLP in 200 mL water), then took aliquots every day to get relatively small B6 doses (without fillers).

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Do you mean "P5P?" They have "Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate (P5P)" and "Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6)" as their two B6 options?

@@jimdandy8996 P5P = PLP, as the technical term for Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate is PLP: www.genome.jp/dbget-bin/www_bget?cpd:C00018

Thanks Bosson Julien. They are-the tolerable upper limit is 100 mg/d, so I plan on not going higher than that. Also, I'm doing full blood panels on the same day, to make sure that I'm not reaching toxic B6 levels.

I do take them both but don't find much difference. I've also tried supplemeting just with Tryptophan, many years ago it really did help with sleep, but in older age it doesn't seem to work well at all. On the other hand, NMN does help with sleep as well. Think I'll stick with NMN.

Yep on both, but standardized workouts 2x/week, 80 minutes/session

In the first video in this series, I showed why B2 is not likely limiting: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zqzCMt8YwRo.html Apigenin intake is ~100 mg/d, so CD38 is not likely a reason for my NAD levels being relatively low.

Yes, I covered that in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--hfdUXsCeN8.html

More niacin is a possibility, but high doses have worsened my liver enzymes in the past, so I'll be very cautious. I'll have another video in this series very soon-something (I won't say what, yet!) may increase NAD in people without supplementing with NR, NMN, Niacin, or even B6...

For a long time, we've been sold the niacin-NMN-NR story as the predominant pathway that generates NAD, but that's not true. Instead, de novo synthesis of NAD occurs through tryptophan, but that pathway may be limited by an age-related decline for B6.

@@conqueragingordietrying123 well, 1000mg NMN did raise your NAD levels. I would not conclude that NMN would not have any effect, but form of application, time schedules, and individuality may play a role (see my other comment) in the way the metabolic network finally moves. Note, the metabolic network is a self-generated able network as a matter of fact. is called homeostasis :) regardless where the parameters profiles is settled, the system tries to maintain the status quo. (hence my comment above) A linear dose response relationship across the whole scale is something I would not expect for the natural metabolites

I'm monitoring for toxicity at every B6 intake level, with a full blood panel on 4/24 and another coming in June. You're talking about pyridoxine, which most of the toxicity data is based upon. I'm not sure that toxicity is as potent for PLP, but nonetheless, I don't plan on going higher than 100 mg/d.

@@conqueragingordietrying123 "Megavitamin-B6 syndrome", Wikipedia: "Symptoms may also be dependent on the form of vitamin B6 taken in supplements.[24][34] It has been proposed that vitamin B6 in supplements should be in pyridoxal or pyridoxal phosphate form rather than pyridoxine as these are thought to reduce the likelihood of toxicity.[24][35] A tissue culture study, however, showed that all B6 vitamers that could be converted into active coenzymes (pyridoxal, pyridoxine and pyridoxamine) were neurotoxic at similar concentrations.[19][36] It has been shown, in vivo, that supplementing with pyridoxal or pyridoxal phosphate increases pyridoxine concentrations in humans, meaning there are metabolic pathways from each vitamer of B6 to the all other forms.[37][38] Consuming high amounts of vitamin B6 from food has not been reported to cause adverse effects.[25][29][39]" I can't recall, where I read that, but someone said, that the negative effects can be offset by taking the active and the inactive form in a 1:1 ratio.

I'm already at 2x the RDA for niacin, and in the past high-dose niacin doubled my liver enzymes. I'm open to going moderately higher for niacin (~10 mg/d to start), but first I'll see the B6 experiment through ~50-75 mg/d; ~2 more tests to get there.

@@conqueragingordietrying123 there are companies selling 500mg pills for whatever reason, very likely though, as a way of decreasing LDL "naturally". That is meant to be a daily intake. I'd go up to 250mg a day and adjust based on results/impact seen upon measurements. All I can do for you is to encourage you to do more research and underline that a short term experiment can't be hurting anyone since we'd know by now.

​@@conqueragingordietrying123that's true commitment

It does increase NAD levels and I have taken up to 3g per day to attain the same effect as 1g of NMN, believe me it's a painful journey. I felt Niacin would be a good alternative as it lowers cholestorol levels too, but it also causes rapid heartbeat which is really no good for my angina. Doses of 6g and over can cause liver problems, so I worry about long term useage of niacin at doses of 2-3g per day. It's safer and less painful to simply stick with NMN.

@@catman4471 are you sure about the liver problems, don't you mean niaspan instead niacin?

That's a good point.

I agree about B2, that's a possibility, too. I might add it after a few more B6-focused tests.

Also please do not rehearse this idea that under 25 or smthing one is too young to start optimize things because that's simply not true (and also really dumb).

Hey Framexdd, I started on this journey by replicating the diets of people in the fitness space that I wanted to look like. I wouldn't recommend that approach, though, and blood testing 1x/year isn't enough. Is 1x/year representative of your biomarker profile for the whole year? By testing many times/yr (7x for me last year), you can get a sense of where your baseline is, and then you can design your diet to improve/maintain those biomarkers over time. That's the best way...

@@framexdd Ha, I would never say something like that! Once a person reaches maturity (growth), I think it's the best time to start with testing.

That's the best way, as PLP is a required cofactor for kynureninase, a protein found in the tryptophan-NAD pathway. I'm taking PLP...

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Thank you for your prompt clarification... and gratitude for your dedication to this topic which helps so many of us... somewhat unrelated to this video... if Niacin and Nicotinamide do not lower homocysteine increase it and if NAC does lower homocysteine, would NAC and Glycine taken together have an even greater effect at lowering homocysteine levels than NAC on its own?

Thanks @@marlobardo4274. The only way to know would be to test...That said, would that combination reduce homocysteine, but affect any other biomarkers? What's the net effect, within the context of the isolated effect (homocysteine)? That's how I'd evaluate it.

49d, and doubtful

Jinfiniti's NMN, but I only used it for 2 of the 5 NAD tests (so far).

No matter which direction (see www.genome.jp/pathway/map00380+C00078), tryptophan degradation requires B6: De novo NAD pathway To form tryptamine To form indoles To form serotonin

Yep, I though 300 mg of NMN would be sufficient, too...I sent blood for NAD analysis yesterday, so soon there will be data for a higher B6 dose!

I think the age-related NAD decline stems from a B6 deficit (as shown in the earlier video in this series), not a NMN deficiency. I aim to address the root of the problem as a primary strategy.

That's on the to-do list, next up will be ~35 mg/d, then higher, if necessary, even beyond 50 mg/d. Hopefully no other biomarkers will be out of whack...

Thanks kenhnsy. Probably not-I try to focus on nutrition-related supplements, and there isn't lifespan data in mammals, as far as I know. Got some papers I should check out?

@@conqueragingordietrying123 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mHB3CUV7ENI.html This guy seems to have done his homework. Links to papers are in the description.

Thanks John, I don't, but it's something I'm considering proposing in grant submissions for studies in both aged mice and people!

I prefer B3 Niacin for these reason and because it is more of a building block the body can use where it needs it. That is the same reason NMN is better for what he is doing. It is further along the path to his specific goal.

Totally agree. Niacin is the main driver of Nad levels which are difficult to measure

@@eyera18901865 Exactly, go straight to the big daddy. NMN can affect NAD+, but can it affect other things that Niacin affects??? Probably not. Effects of Niacin are not only in NAD area.

Niacin is consumed in low mg amounts (the RDA is 15 mg/d), whereas tryptophan intake for most people is 500 - 1000 mg/d. in other words, we should be making more NAD via the tryptophan pathway relative to niacin, but the potential age-related decline for B6 may limit the conversion. That's the point of this video series...

@@conqueragingordietrying123 I'm telling you, go straight to the big daddy. There are 8000 studies on nicotinic acid and over 2000 on niacin (which is kind of same thing). Why would there be so many studies in last 80 years about Niacin??? There's got to be a very good reason. This is not only about NAD. One of the most debilitating disease ever is Schizophrenia. You give 3gr of Niacin a day, well plus Vitamin C in same amount, and after 6 months, you are almost back to normal. Try that with B6. It would destroy your nerves at that high of dose. But B6 has its place of course, in smaller doses. I'm talking about the doctors, that presented tens of thousands of patient cases where they cure wide range of diseases with Niacin since 1940's. Of course, it is Abram Hoffer work as doctor and the cases that he presents and many others. They can't all lie. They were curing cancer cases with Niacin (and always higher dose of Vitamin C). Anxiety. Parkinsons. Alzeheimer (well, this one, not cure but more like make it more manageable to live life, and they admit that). Do I even have to mention heart disease and cholesterol. Down syndrome. Arthritis (lots of patients they cured with Niacin). I just listed the 90% of all deadly diseases, based on the percentages and Niacin as a potential cure or at least it helps. Why not do that? Why go around? Your liver won't fail in 2 months on such a high dose.

NMN is expensive (and degrades over time) and B6 is cheap. Taking tens of milligrammes of a cheap supplement as opposed to a gram plus daily of an expensive one is well worth investigating.

NMN might not address the root of the problem, which may be an age-related decrease for B6. I covered that in an earlier video.

It must be quality, usually they are all or none. When he high dosed his NAD went much higher. The live animal tests were at a 3-5 gram dose human equivalent. NMN may be one that simply needs high dose to break a threshold. Making it to expensive for about 3/4 of the population.

A higher B6 intake, ~12x the RDA made no impact on this year's seasonal allergies, which were brutal for my HRV and RHR for a few days this year, worse than what vaccination did to those metrics.

@@conqueragingordietrying123 shiiii..... 😳

Not yet, same. I might have to get NAD up a lot higher than 30-40 uM for that, though.

@@conqueragingordietrying123 gotcha looking forward to your future testing results in June!

Yes, in a recent video! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-K80je_l2oCg.html

@@conqueragingordietrying123 Ah I missed it was looking for that followup!

unfortunately high dose Niacin is not good for your liver, the body detects it is overloaded with niacin and tries to flush it out putting pressure on your liver enzymes and producing florescent yellow urine. This was seen in studies for people using high does of it to reduce LDL and increase HDL for people who could not take statins.

Niacin has a much greater effect on Nad than the minimal dose of b6 here. Also, variables like absorption of low dose b6 is not factored in if that is even possible. Read Saul's new book on niacin. Important

Yep, I've had that issue with liver enzymes and high-dose niacin (> 500 mg/d). I haven't tried 10 mg/d increments above my usual intake,-I may try that at some point.

@@conqueragingordietrying123 was that pure niacin or something akin to niaspan? I'm betting the latter.

Sorry to hear that! I'm waiting on data for an April 24th test, too.

Did you watch the video? 1000 mg NMN raised my NAD, but 300 mg/d didn't.

*in smokers, in the study that you're referencing. Most of the people on this channel are not smokers, though. The tolerable upper limit for B6 has been defined as 100 mg/d, I have no intention of going beyond that.

@@conqueragingordietrying123 No IAm nOt Reffering To Smokers I THINK NMN IS BETTER THAN B6 In Your Test ..

So far, yes. 2x B6's impact on NAD is the next experiment.