Volume - Low Vs. High (Pragmatic Bodybuilding & Believe Collab) 

00:00 🤔 Discussing the significant differences in training volume between two bodybuilding approaches. 00:26 🗣 Common confusion among viewers about varying volumes in training routines. 00:57 📊 Volume in training is highly individualized; no universal volume fits all. 01:25 🔍 Coaching starts by assessing current volume and progress before adjusting. 02:22 🏋 Jeff's typical weekly volume is 6-8 sets for most muscle groups, with variations for specific parts. 03:04 💪 Eric's training involves much higher volume, such as 45 sets for triceps weekly. 04:10 📏 Direct comparison of quad training volume highlights Eric's significantly higher volume. 05:03 🔄 Efficient volume management is crucial for recovery and effectiveness. 06:00 🔄 Fast recovery rates allow Eric to handle higher volumes without feeling fatigued. 07:07 💯 Jeff emphasizes training with full intention and effort for each rep. 08:01 🛠 Jeff's training involves intentional, controlled reps focusing on muscle engagement. 09:08 🔍 Both Jeff and Eric train with high effort, but Jeff's lower volume is by necessity, not choice. 10:45 🔬 Starting with efficient, low volume before increasing is recommended for progress. 11:54 🧠 Individualized training is key; one size does not fit all in volume recommendations. 13:01 📚 Research shows varied volume responses; averages don't apply to every individual. 14:11 📊 Studies indicate different responses to training volume based on individual genetics and recovery capabilities. 15:48 🧩 Coaching adapts volume to individual needs rather than adhering to universal guidelines. 16:02 🌟 Training adaptability varies among individuals, influencing volume capacity and benefits. 17:10 🧬 Genetic factors and individual history affect response to training volume. 18:22 🔄 Jeff and Eric have different training histories, affecting their current volume needs. 19:01 🏆 Jeff's lower volume training resulted from past high-volume approaches and personal adaptations. 21:48 📉 Eric's upper body plateaued with lower volume training, showing different responses between his upper and lower body. 22:30 💪 Switching to higher volume, Eric saw regression in his shoulder press strength. 23:10 🏋‍♂ Eric's lower body continued progressing with low volume, highlighting individual variation in response. 24:05 🔄 Experimentation with different training paradigms and periods led Eric to discover the need for higher volume for his upper body. 25:13 🚀 Eric's upper body responded significantly to higher volume, surpassing previous size and strength levels. 25:40 🏆 Consistent higher volume training led Eric to achieve his peak bench press. 26:06 🛠 Jeff learned that too much volume caused fatigue and didn't improve his physique, leading him to focus on quality and performance. 26:20 🔍 Both Eric and Jeff emphasize learning what works best through experimentation and avoiding dogmatic approaches. 27:18 🧪 Gradual increases in volume are recommended to acclimate and determine individual response effectively. 27:58 🌱 Increase volume only when plateaued, ensuring other training aspects are optimized first. 28:13 🗓 Conduct multiple 3-6 month experiments to find the most effective training volume for sustained progress.

Comments for the algo because you gents deserve it after all of these years!❤🎉

Great video guys!

Awesome video guys, thanks for the insights!

Awesome discussion! Thanks

love this collab vid! it's got more casual vibe than the podcasts but also gives lots of lessons :D

Woahhh! A collab between two of my favorite series on RU-vid?! What a great way to start my Saturday!

Good vid. Jeff’s back is awesome 👏

A great conversation. I learned a lot. Thank you!

So helpful. Thanks so much guys.

Excellent video guys, love the conversation

Great video/information. 👏👏

Thank you for the great content

GREAT discussion guys, very eye opening and informative

Flexible mindsets towards training styles combined with videos of both in world class shape - great video 🤝💪

Absolutely loved the video! Great discussion. 🙌

Really interesting discussion. In my 50s now and still not sure what works best for me. This helps in terms of thinking about it though. Thanks guys.

This was fantastic. Thanks for this video and what it reveals and teaches. This variation in responsiveness to volume explains a lot of what I’ve experienced and helps me to make some adjustments. Thanks again!

Very helpful as I am currently working on finding where I fall in regards to volume. There’s a lot of nuance in body building and I have been confused. At first it looks like team low volume vs team high volume. Now I see you just gotta give it some experimentation. Thanks.

I love that Jeff mentioned diet when reviewing past history. Changing multiple variables makes it difficult to draw conclusions. I'm currently enjoying less sets per workout while hitting the same body parts frequently in a week; but I am also a big fan of gradually adjusting and pushing those limits.

I'd like to know some of the mechanisms and genetics of high vs low volume people.

Good one lads

Very interesting stuff 👍

Amathing video , make more of this type of content❤

a lot of genes involved in recovery and hypertrophy, it's safe to say no 2 people are identical

Let's get the lads a biopsy! Just kidding, that involves giving up gainz.

Jeff, You've may have tried this. I've been lifting many years. I love LV and always get wrecked too. Lately, I've been doing minimal WU's then knock out a top set (try to PR to failure/ 10-15 rep range). Additionally-2 days a week I drop all lifts 50% & just do pump sets to get in the volume Eric gets in per wk. Its so light it doesn't seem to affect recovery. I'm no more wrecked with the additional 2 light days.. Its working.

Thank you sirs

Great video! I enjoy hearing on individual differences to achieve your freaky fysiques. I think it would be great if you guys could do an in-depth video on how to find individualized volume needs. Like is there a protocol that you guys follow and checklist?

Great discourse. I'm halfway through so not sure if it comes up but Id like to hear a narrative shift around people not needing to fear volume at the cost of recovering/fatigue. I think we all can handle a lot more volume than we think.

Good discussion. I'm not a volume guy. I just feel terrible and have terrible recovery with volume. It brings me back to the fast versus slow twitch fiber discussion as even when I was young I was terrible at distance running and good at sprinting. I know over time I could probably adapt to more volume or distance running, but I don't enjoy it. So no point in pursuing it as I'll just quit lifting due to boredom as volume bores the living crap out of me. When I work out, I want to feel some heavy weight and see some progress on the stack or bar as often as possible. Increasing the number of reps is fine as I know that will likely lead to increased weight, but if that was my only increase I would get grow very bored.

Keep it up guys

Eric's deltoids on these hammer curls look amazing. In comparison - mine look subpar. I need to step up my shoulder game...

That old footage of Jeff shows just how massive he was (is). I actually prefer that look to stage lean tbh. That’s the look that’s going to give physical presence. Impressive

Jesus christ Eric, that is a ton amount of volume! How do u still manage to keep your motivation given the busy life you have and coupled with the fact that you are already an advanced athlete?!

need to watch this in imax

Starting at low volumes and building it up per muscle group, or exercise makes the most sense to me. 10:40

thank's a lot for this video. Indirect volume is considered as 1 set for muscle or probably 0,5? thank you very much

I’m with Jeff I CAN’T Recover from anymore that 1 Set to Failure and 1 Drop Set (Upper Lower 3 Day workout) I Get Snappy,Tired,Grumpy And just Don’t want to Do Anything Chris from Manchester England

Very, very interesting. Thank you for sharing

Made progress from both styles. Hard to tell with your own n=1 which one is better when they both seem to do OK.

Can 100% relate with Eric. 16 years of training and have finally come to the realization I just require more volume on upperbody to make progress. I great progress overall on bro splits, then did upper lower powerlifting splits and legs continued to grow while upperbody regressed continuously. Ppl, Arnold split, or bro split seem to work the best for me who’s upper needs a lot of volume and lower needs much less

I find that I'm like Eric, my upper body needs a lot of volume to move the needle at all, and my lower body tends to do fine on very low volumes. I've attempted higher volumes with lower body exercises, but my knees and low back give out before the muscles really have a chance to respond. The very high loads involved also take a lot of systemic recovery resources away from the rest of my training. So I end up focusing more on quality reps with slow eccentrics and pauses to milk whatever volume I can tolerate in the lower body. For the upper body, the only upper limit seems to be tendonitis if the loads get too high too fast in a meso. My problem is I just don't have the time to do 4-6 days a week to get that volume for the upper body. Thanks for the discussion.

Like it!

I have the almost the same experience as you eric need more volume for upper body and less for lower body but for me it was the opposite my legs where sticks dropped the volume on legs and they blew up and the same for rdls i made prs every week through my bulk

I wonder what cues you look for in assessing recovery. Ability to retake the same weight? Mental fatigue? Soreness? General weakness?

Wealth of information! @Eric Helms: You mentioned that your upper body developement really only started taking off once you started doing 10 sets of presses and pulls (5 vertical, 5 horizontal each) per session, 3x/week. Out of curiosity: Would you mind sharing your routine from back then to give us some more context?

Let’s go!

23:11 First time i’ve heard eric wheeze like that 😂

12:12 This is similar to my experience too. 3 sets of flies and bench and my chest would be consistently sore for 2 or 3 days. I thought I was Dr Mike Isratel when it came to volume. But then afrter I decied to try pushing volume and working out when I'm still a little sore, repeated bout effect came in and I was able to double my bench volume and still recover on time.

The thumbnail reminds me of Goku vs Frieza on Namek

27:03 I'd really enjoy a video on SFR myth busting and some info on recent data. I've become increasingly skeptical that proximity to failure (or beyond) makes as much of an impact on SFR as people say. I've also noticed that higher rep ranges are so much better on my joints, that even though it's harder to push close to failure I can do a lot more volume. I'd also say a 2 RIR in a 10-20 rep range feels more stimulating than a 10-12 rep range due to the smaller increments of fatigue per rep you have to stack on to eventuially get to failure, if that makes any sense.

Видео шикарное, ещё одно подтверждение что люди разные) и надо подбирать под себя и пробовать, а не биться головой о стену одного и того же

I wonder, my lats never sore even when i do lenghten partial supersets, butvmy calfes are sore from 2sets for 5days. What wozld you do in this case foracimum gainz? How can reduce the doms?

Cool Video guys! Thank you! I´ve a Question for Eric´s Volume: So the direct sets for Shoulders (Mid and Side) are 13 and 26 from Chest Volume? And the direct sets for Biceps 8 (28 from Back) and Triceps 6 (26 Chest and 13 Shoulders)? It´s not entirely clear! Thank you!

Question to Eric. The time when you shrunk in 2011, did you experience doms? And today are you experince any doms from your high volume? Amd if are you training with the doms or are you 100 recovered each Session?

Is it true that it takes your body 6 hrs to fill up glycogen levels after eating? From my humble experience ive found that if i train in the morning the first meal (300grams of carbs)takes me at least 3 hrs, and if i train in the afternoon- the 3rd mea(75grams of carbs)l would take 2hrs

An important question that I wish would get addressed more: does 'optimal' (whatever that is for the individual) get you to a higher place or to the same place quicker? For example, if I'm better-suited to low/high volume, does picking the right approach matter if I'm not in a hurry?

Hey Eric when you were doing the 5x10 3 x a week of chest press, shoulder press and rows and pull downs, did you do much direct arm work or leg work?

If I do 2 sets of chest, with very good technique and 0-1 RiR, I get a pump and get very sore for 2-3 days. Does that mean it's probably goos to not do more or change exercise/increase RiR? Is soreness a indicative of a damage/fatigue that isn't good for hypertrophy?

So if loads are going up, don’t worry about doing too little? What if you progressed reps/load on one set per week? Clearly that isn’t enough for gaining muscle despite performance increasing. How do you determine actual muscle gain when pictures can be slow and deceiving? Is something like starting with 6-10 sets, make sure performance increases, and only add volume if performance isn’t increasing, you’re recovering and all recovery variables are on point? (Sleep, food, etc)

This looks like a competition in typical hacker-nerd-like back posture! 😀

So is it fair to say that if you can recover from higher volume, you should do it?

Overreaching: good bad ugly etc thanks

One problem I run into is I need more volume for certain muscles, but my joints and connective tissues won’t let me. :(

Looking at videos of Jeff he does low volume with heavy weight which builds muscle and team 3d does moderate weight for high volume they all builds muscle it just up to you to find which best works for you there's no best worksout routine .

This absolutely blows my mind guys , 26 sets a week for the chest? Are they all working sets? I’m currently doing doing X3 direct sets a week on my chest ….

What do these guys and a lot of other leading Body building/ fitness communicators mean when they refer to Hiit being bunk (now). I understand hiit has been debunked but curious exactly in which ways?

I hate that I respond so well to volume. I wish I could do 3-8 hard sets a week then pig out and sleep to grow. I can’t say that lower volume didn’t work at all for me, but the muscle and strength I gain with higher volumes is a night and day difference. It sucks because I love training like Dorian Yates and the trendy low volume you see these days.

Jeff dabbled, don't change my mind.

Question for Eric: when you were coaches by Alberto, what was (approximately) your weekly volume per muscle group per week? I know Alberto is also a fan of low volume so I’m curious if he noticed you were a higher volume responder and put you on 20+set.

Did Jeff train 6-9 sets/week like that all his life or just a couple of years back? I am doubt that he did not push everything he had when he was younger and only resulted to low volume recently just enough to maintain his physic. No way on earth you can build a competitive body for just 6-9 sets/week, period

i do his volume in a month . holy sh*t

Curious about how long does your workouts last Eric with this kind of weekly volume? If you do that amount in 4 days per week training, it’s probably 2 hours + workouts…

Upper body is Eric, lower body is Jeff

How the hell could eric do 16 sets harmstring, with just 8 per week i got sore every day. How is this possible?

That feel when every muscle group responds to low volume except for calves.

First time I've seen so much volume on erectors specifically. woa

I think I might be an Eric😢

love high Volume with high intensity. I grow very fast since.

I have news for you, it has to do with the individual that matters the most. Some people just respond better to volume than less and vice versa. Also keep in mind that we have two opposite body types.

19:10 lol caption

How much does age and natural testosterone levels affect how one can handle this🤔 or being ecto,meso,endo?🤔

Sandbagging haha. I WISH I could get that physique by sandbagging.

Have you seen evidence that people which respond poorly in general, can get better muscle gainz with more volume?

The tatt on your hand is in arabic right? What does it say I could barely read نفسك

What a great video for Saturday love you both. Thank you. Now Jeff people are going to wonder why you are too soft 😉 jk. 💙

I read a post title saying hard gainers who started off skinny with more of an ectomorph bone structure need high volume to keep making progress.

What the fuck is up with your neck Eric 😮 this thumbnail is wild

363 bench? My 1RM is 264 and I am sure I got more chest than Eric.

Oh please, your most common comment goes along the lines of "bro, do you even, like, lift?" Love you guys, even if it's my purpose in life to troll occasionally 🤣🤣🤣

I wish I could do less than 10 sets per body part a week. I have to hit at least between 20-30.

biceps getting more attention than tris? even though the arm is mostly made up of the tris

Drug Miller is on drugs so that's a different story 😄

I literally do just 4-6 sets per week per muscle group and my gains are way faster than the stupid “optimal 10-20 sets per muscle per week” bullshit. My split is: Monday - Back & Shoulders Tuesday - Rest Wednesday - Legs & Abs Thursday - Rest Friday - Chest & Arms Saturday and Sunday - Rest 2 exercises each muscle group for only 2 sets each! Amazing progress than doing 10-20 sets. INTENSITY > Volume!!

Just more proof that low volume is better. Jeff built like a tank and Eric looking like a bean pole after decades of training

You need to recover AND progress, if not, probably you're doing too much, there's not a natural that is big, that isnt strong

Maybe after 13 years of experimenting with high volume, eric should experiment with low volume, because Jeff looks way better.