A couple of notes on the difference between the Pi and the Tinker Board - It offers a faster processor 1.8GHz vs. 1.4GHz. It has double the RAM and operates at a quicker speed ( DDR3 running in dual channel vs. DDR2 single channel on the pi ). As you noted in the review, the SoC allows for the Ethernet to not be shared on the USB bus allowing for much better performance ( for USB and LAN ) while also improving signaling performance. The board production quality and integrated circuitry are improved. The built-in card reader is also faster fully support UHS-I microSD cards. Also, the board's topology and layout are compatible with PI3 accessories. This is a big one, as many SBC boards are somewhat similar but have different ports or power connections or different dimensions. This is not the case for the Tinker Board. It has been designed to be physically interoperable with the vast majority of chassis, hat's and other accessories that are available for the Pi. For audio enthusiasts, the Tinker Board has also been validated directly with many DACS including those from ( JustBoom, IQAudio, HiFiberry, as well as ES9038 Q2M boards ). These are plug and play with the OS provided by ASUS for the Tinker Board - Again kudos on a great review and thank you for your continued showcase of a wide array of products especially in regards to streaming solutions.
Juan Jose Guerrero Great info you provided above. Thanks for that as some of us like when other people spend quality time writing an informative post, especially this one comparing Tinkerboard to RPI.
Man...again, answering directly to our curiosities and needs for affordable yet great-sounding inventions and workarounds! Thank you, thank you. Really can't appreciate it enough, clever and insightful every time.
Love the video John. We love it when you introduce us to good (or great) sounding equipment. Especially when it doesn't cost a king's ransom. Please keep up the awesome work. Look forward to your next review.
Wow John, another fantastic video!!! I’ve been subscribed to your channel for a while now and it obvious that you are getting better and better by the video in terms of presentation, composition, content etc. You are on point my good sir and look forward to all your videos in the future. I’ve just begun reading your articles (didn’t discover your website until recently). Your articles/reviews on the site also have that great wow factor. Keep up the incredible work. PS, I’m from the states and just started putting together a rpi 3b with an Allo Piano 2.1 dac and a cheap 60 watt amp found on Amazon for an outside patio space and I’m going start messing around with Volumio on the Pi. Seems like Allo makes a number of pretty good products. Thanks again for your videos.
This is a lovely review. Thank you. The use cases you described are the same way I enjoy (or hope to) listening to music. Getting these options squared away so that I can listen to my local HD audio and stream everything else has been a challenge. I’m looking at Roon for this plus a NAS. These little solutions you feature are interesting. I loved your comment at the end speaking to how garage built so many of these systems seem to be.
Brilliant, I must say that lately your videos are much better than older ones and I love that, because not all of us can understand everything and especially connectivity. Now you go into details and we appreciate this. Thank you, excellent work, keep it up
A lower cost stripped down version without a DAC/analog outputs would be interesting. Just a streamer/transport for people with dedicated dacs already..
I definitely like these reviews of "lesser known" products, as you call them. Like you, I started with a Squeezebox - actually I go away back before that- I used to stream right out of my computer via long RCA cables to my old NAD integrated. Using Winamp! There was nothing like we have today in 1999. But the Squeezebox Model 3 revolutionized my streaming. After several years, eventually I took a detour and bought a series of high end sound cards by Lynx and then ESI Julia because I wanted hi Rez. I had big second hand computers connected directly directly to my DAC of choice - Benchmark- and I settled on Foo Bar as my player. A few years went by and my son in law told me all about Raspberry Pi. I ran the Pi with Volumio. I eventually bought a second one which includes an amp "hat" to spread out to other rooms. Then I discovered the Allo US Bridge, running Diet Pi with Squeezelite. And I saw a way to run several of my systems throughout the house and back yard deck, all using Logitech Media Server, on a "server" - a little Dell 2 in 1 with a 4 TB hard drive. Of course there are other methods, but I knew Logitech Media Server and I always liked that it just worked. Since I've kept all this stuff, they now work harmoniously together. The Squeezebox in my bedroom, the Allo in my main room, the Pi with amp in my kitchen and back yard and that first Pi in the basement. For the moment, the basement Pi is still running Volumio. I like Volumio, I like Squeezebox/LMS/Diet Pi. I'm not a techie by any means - I'm 63-the Golden Years are calling - but I can usually muddle through this and get it working, and, if not, I have a fall back to my techie son in law. The Allo is a little figity with configuring new DAC's but me and this guy Sudeep in technical support work it out, so far. I've tried Roon, but I have invested 20 years in organizing my files my way, and although I really love the extra things Roon provides, I still prefer going to my music folder and finding an artist in just the right genre I chose. I understand why Roon can't work this way, but for now, we just agree to disagree. Anyway, just saying we both go back a ways and Home Brew alternatives are always interesting to me. There was a time when I didn't know anyone else doing what I was doing. Now there is a rich collection of options and I really appreciate your shedding light on some of them. Keep doing it. I like all your reviews, for the most part. Keep up the good work. Thanks again!
I was most excited seeing you using the Fujitsus. I have the TD712zII and the tdm1 on my desk. When I want to hear those audiophile imaging tricks, there is NOTHING better. Anyway, great video
I continue to be delighted by my Pro-ject Stream box S2 Ultra connected to the PS Audio Sprout then run through a pair of Sennheiser HD 600s. Wires are a combination of Shunyata and AudioQuest. Highly recommend!
Dennis has just the solution for you ;) www.hifishark.com/model/linn-akurate-ds I'd like to think there is a middle ground in there somewhere, and I very much look forward to John's review of the Volumio Motivo.
@@DarkoAudio I took your advice and ran the CA into the Schiit Modi, and its probably all I'll need for years, until I find a better DAC at that price.
Thanks for the content and covering different products. This product is interesting to me once it obtains roon support but the extra charge for tidal is a deal breaker. Right now I'm looking at the Mytek Brooklyn bridge or the Naim Atom.
The extra charge is to use both Tidal and Qobuz at the same time.But he explains a trick in which he uses the squeesbox plug in to use both Tidal and Qobuz without having to pay extra.I just hope Volumio doesnt change that.
John, thanks for the good chuckle about the Amazon player. It comes as no surprise that even the Sonos is a bit better! About a year ago I was in a "Big Box" retailer that had a set of Martin Logans prominently setup with some McIntosh tube amps that was sounding positively Mediocre(& I'm being kind) from where I was able to see things. Upon a closer look, I saw the Sonos player that was playing things. One of the Saleskids walked over & commented: "Sounds pretty good, Huh?" Saying Huh was absolutely appropriate!
Nice to see Squeezebox alive and kicking still. I also started out digital audio with a SB Touch, and only recently "upgraded" to the Bluesound Node 2i. Now I say upgrade as it just about cuts it as that - but if I'm honest the £500 would be nice in my pocket now to put towards speakers! I think the Node 2i is a slightly more detailed sound than the SBT but I really struggled to distinguish much difference between the 2. Perhaps if I had better speakers I'd have heard something more easily tangible; I'm using a Node 2i -> Audiolab 8300A -> Tannoy M3 - and they must be 21 years old. So clearly the bottleneck, but I do still think they sound very good still and work perfectly (so some MA Silver 300's are beckoning, but are hard to justify). However when talking Volumio I'd still go Node 2i, as I don't like the look of the Volumio interface nearly as much as BluOS, and then the need to pay a monthly upgrade to get the services integration is just shockingly rude. You could as you pointed out use LMS to get around it, but it's a bit of a cludge to need to do that and I already know BluOS is much nicer than LMS, in fact the niceness of BluOS was the main reason I didn't return the Node 2i and stick with my SBT. I do still use LMS in fact to control some MusicCast (awful app) kit over the Airplay plugin and using Squeezer on my phone to control it, and so I'm certainly still fond of LMS somewhat. Lastly the Volumio itself really does to my eyes look like a cheap box, whereas a Node 2i which I personally think looks great and I definitely appreciate the aesthetics of kit in my decisions.
Great video! The comparisons make all the difference for me. Gives great perspective. Just got the node2i which I read was a good inprovement over the the node 2. Interested to hear your thoughts about it at some point. Or any bluos product like a NAD streamer. Thanks !
The Primo also allows USB output on any of the USB ports. And there is a primo hifi edition sold only in phisical retailers which does have lifetime access to the subscription plan included.
I took a chance with the Allo Digione Signature with a life Roon based on your reviews of Allo. Home brew doesn’t bother me. If it is better SQ and provides me an amazing software experience plus saves me over a Lumin, it is a win, win. People see my speakers, subs, pre and tube amps. The streamer and DAC sit quietly hidden.
i built a voliumo server about 2 years ago , still love it, one thing i noticed though is the setting the volume on your phone or from a browser tend to be a little sluggish. otherwise it's a great system
Thank you for the great review. I tried to make my own DAC through a Raspberry Pie, Allo Boss and Volumio, which indeed sounds great but I found that the Volumio system was very unreliable when it came to Spotify Connect. In essence that's all I wanted to do, use Spotify Connect from my phone to stream music into my active speakers yet there was an obstacle in every step from getting Spotify to Connect and stay connected, to massive problems with volume control. It was all just super unreliable and since i'm not Linux expert, it was driving me mad until I gave up.
nothing bad about this lol. In fact that is insanely cool. Since HDMI is still digital everything with your setup is pretty much perfect. Unless you strive for more "convenient features" like controlling via app on smartphone you shouldnt change anything. And even that should be possible since you are using kodi.
im using an apple tv 4 to do this :)) and i don"t have to pay just to play music from my phone ... airplay has been grate , my apple tv automatically powers on my receiver ... im pleased actually ... my main music source is spotify
I think the Volumio OS is their strongest asset. The UX needs some love (especially if you’re used to iOS) , but it is the easiest way to set up a Raspberry Pi as an AirPlay receiver and music server (I use a USB DAC attached to it). I stream from Tidal in my phone to AirPlay.
Nice video John. Wondering if you could add to your streamer comparison a Lindemann Limetree Network? I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the German brand..... Cheers
I appreciate the comparison...I have a couple of sonos connects and am planning on upgrading the one hooked up to my main audio system. Have you looked at the Audiolab 6000N?
Great video. I use a Sonos Connect in my bedroom, but never been happy with the sound (even though I feed the output through a Chord dac to powered speakers). BUT, none of the alternatives (except Bluesound) offer wake up alarms. I have a feeling I will be stuck with Sonos for a long time to come 😡🤬
Would be interesting, where the Lindemann Limetree Network would be, in this comparsion. I bought this little bugger 2 weeks ago and im quite happy with it.
Great intro about the Volumio system. Please review MiniDSP SHD which is running Volumio with Dirac Live. It's almost perfect as an affordable option for 2.1 Music/Movie lover.
I was getting a bit tired of the available options and their prices. I ended up building my own streamer with RPI, HifiBerry DAC and oversized power supply. Finished it off with an LCD display that shows the current song. It's currently a headless squeezelite client playing off of LMS, but it can also run LMS and be a standalone server. I like how it came out... does not look too homebrew. imgur.com/a/gXQAWZH
Hello, may I have your thoughts on the "yamaha wxad-10" streamer which retails for around 180 $/€ ? It's also a budget streamer and allegedly has a pretty good dac built in according to them.
@John Darko - Is it possible to connect the KEF LSX, an external monitor to the Primo via cable then from Macbook pro to Primo also via cable and use it as a hub? The reason for that is because KEF LSX dose not have a USB port and i rather use cable vs bluetooth for better sound quality and to avoid any latency. Will probable only use streaming from my mobile/tablet over my network. If not what do you recommend? P.S. its a desktop setup. Cheers
Hi john. I was wondering if you know of any unit that would be able to stream tidal and use a dragonfly for dac? I was thinking something like raspberry pi with an os that can use the usb as digital out to my dragonfly red. I also have a audio quest jitter bug, so "clean power" should be of no concern. Btw gr8 content.
Hi, John. Really interested in seen a comparison between Volumio Mini86 and Primo. For nearly 1/3 of the price of the Primo, surely something got lost in the way. The question is what....
$3 per month while you already paid for the box? No way. What is this seriously? Cloud integration is a mandatory feature for a streamer, it’s part of the product or there is no product.
Being an Asus Tinkerboard, Dietpi can be installed instead. Drivers for the DAC maybe an issue though. If those can be covered, Roon Bridge can be installed by Dietpi. Either way though, it's far too much money for what it is. Allo do Sabre based boards for less. Nice case though.
Late here but looking for advice. I want to stream Amazon Music HD at the highest quality of 24/192. I have Android phone, and I have a capable schiit external DAC. My question is whether uPnP like BubbleuPnP will get me 24/192. Also which Rpi OS do guys recommend for my situation. Thanks!
Yeah, those acrylic structures around PCBs look a little like a hack... There are some nicer Pi metal cases from HiFiBerry and Flirc. I got an aluminum case from Flirc for my stand alone Pi and it looks and feels at home next to me Schiit gear.
Sorry for the slight out of context question. In your opinion and experience what would give a better performance in terms of sound quality? An Allo Digione/USB bridge paired with a Schiit Modi-3 DAC or an Allo Boss DAC V1.2 ?
Hi thanks for a great review. Some say that the spdif output is noisy on the volumio primo hifi edition. How will you prefer using it with Roksan Attessa as pure streamer or dac streamer
@darko.audio can I connect this to my Buffalo NAS and use the app to navigate the content without passing through my home network?? Thank you for your videos!
The Yamaha Musicast offerings seem to offer great audio. The WXC-50 for example comes in under the Connect and sounds much better imo. The quality of hardware also far exceeds Sonos.
i have the WXC-10 which is the streaming/dac receiver combo simplified version of the WXC-50. Have you been able to compare its DAC performances to other DACs?
Hello John great vid do you think this would sound better than my current old Toshiba laptop running Roon streaming Tidal through usb into my gato dia 250 amp I don’t want to fork out loads of money on a well named product to get the same performance from a cheaper well put together unit like this. Cheers .
Wish I could help you but I don't have your Toshiba laptop so I can't comment with any degree of reliability. I can only comment on gear I have to hand.
I’ve been running the Volumio software on the Allo Digione Signature, much preferred over dietpi. I have noticed that the sound is much better when playing via a connected SSD rather than streaming via Qobuz or files streamed via my MacBook and iPhone.
They make (or made anyway) an x86 version that will run from a thumb drive if anyone would like to try, it's free. The highest quality and most flexible way is to run a Volumio 'box' to an external DAC through USB. I wonder what the highest resolution the on board DAC provides is? There is a Volumio App available also. It provides control similar to the web page. As far as the support of streaming service plugins, I have no opinion. I don't use a service so it does not apply. I really use it to play my CD collection. I was getting to old (lazy) to change CD's all the time. As a result I wasn't enjoying my system. Even changers have limits and the time between tracks can be tedious. I ripped all CD's at full resolution and put them on the SSD in the computer. Volumio is the closest to truly gapless playback, it is near instantaneous. Now you get to have arguments about the benefits of high dollar USB cables. (that's a pricey one on that HDD BTW)
Is it possible to make a cloud streaming service privately like spotify, but with my own private music that I can access when not even home being connected to same wifi/internet?
Thanks for your Video..it is always a pleasure listening to your comments...by the way. I am happy to hear that someone was brave Enough to target the squeezebox ecosystem.. i am using squeezebox classic for more than a decade now (2006). A time ago spotify changed their encryption an since that chance squeezebox classic does no longer support spotify...anyhow it does mot scale for the future anymore. Hence, i am looking for a a) good sounding b) great looking c) from the familiy perspective acceptable alternative...so, i found your idea with the amazon link plus shiit modi 3 really nice...now i see the Volumio...wow...times are changing...every week something new is appearing,wich is very nice...now two tiny questions if you allow. Would you eventually combine the volumio with the shiit modi 3 ? Next question. I like the elegance for my kids with the alexa/spotify integration..is there any way to combine alexa with volumio to have still this alexa/spotify integration,,then i would be at the end of my search 🤓🤪. Thank you for your effort...nice video quality...in terms of length, in terms of engineering depths, in terms of sound and speech quality..all section 5 ⭐️..! And after all you are so likeable 👍🏻 if i meet you one day at victoia bar...you definitely get a free pisco sour, i promise! Thanks for the hours of video material ! Joh
All these companies have moved into the subscription model, asides from purchasing the device, now you are on the hook for a small but albeit real monthly fee. Jesus, I guess that spinning physical Cds and vinyl and radio are futuristic and retro at the same time. I can predict a time when people will simply get fed up with never ending subscriptions.
The idea of 'renting' a function because the manufacturer wants recurring revenue has got to stop. I'm fine with paying for content whether through watching ads on YT or paying for services like music streaming or Netflix, but this nonsense of renting functionality is slowly creeping into more areas like CarPlay (BMW) and Google Maps (Audi). Now there's this. It's garbage, and it's enough to make me not want to support this business practice.
Hallelujah, the creeping cancer that is the “Subscription Economy” Know your product - Buy the product- Own the product. Not really interested in streaming thanks just the Wifi and Bluetooth wireless technology we can use in the house.
I was ready to pull the trigger on the Bluesound Node 2i but now not so much.I wonder how the DAC inside the Volumio compares to my goto DAC which is the Chord Mojo?
Make your own solution at an even lesser cost by getting the Asus Tinker board or Raspberry Pi and loading Volumio on them. Since you already have a fantastic Chord DAC you really don't need the built-in DAC of the Primo. Or spend the extra cash on the Chord Poly.
Plug in Chord Poly to your Mojo, and you will have the one of worlds best sounding DAC streamers money can buy, highly recommended when the Poly is loaded with the latest firmware
You really don’t want to pay $3 per month to get Tidal and Qobuz support. Those are included pretty much in all other platforms without the extra monthly cost.
Enjoying your videos, great in fact. I’m looking for a cost effective solution to stream Qobuz from either my LG 5 phone or i pad in to my MF clic streaming dac, i cant say i fancy a further subscription on top of the 24.99 i pay already. I’m currently using my phone via usb cable ( don’t laugh ) ;)
I only laugh at the indignant and the self-entitled, never as people's hardware setups. To improve the quality of the digital connection between iPad and DAC you could add a Schiit Eitr: www.schiit.com/products/eitr
Hello John, great video, thanks for showing all these options. One question I have and sorry if it is obvious: what makes the streamers better than having my computer connected to a school dad via USB and accessing my server and streaming services that way? Thanks.
Simply put: if the streamer has a lower electrical noise profile than the laptop, it will send less electrical noise to the DAC and the DAC will sound better.
@@DarkoAudio i should really read over my notes before pressing send. "Computer connected to a school dad?" WTF? Should be schiit dac! Ok, so noise was what i had thought. Thanks! What about the schiit eiter between? Do you have any experience with those. I think they are made for isolating the noise from wherever you're getting your music from, and feeding a clean black source to your dac. Would love to see you do a video on that. Anyway, thanks for the response. Love your work my friend.
Hi Which one of the outputs will your go to with the primo hifi rca or coax? As i read in other reviews the coax out is quit noisy. Have you the same experience when testing the primo?
