Have you ever considered trying out the Swampfox Arrowhead series of LPVO’s? Their specs are fantastic on paper, but I try to avoid small names in the optics marketplace. Your reviews are the kind of simple and effective that we could really get a real feel for the optic - no risk of BS due to sponsorship!
Solid review. I've never thought Garand Thumb was super 'schill-y' but watching his review which was basically "this thing is perfect" then this review which realistically presents multiple flaws is enlightening. Well done on the review!
Never trust personalities... gt is cool but everyone is fighting something, and 99% of your relationships will be transactional... only God loves unconditionally
I bought one when they first came out, didn’t like it for these reasons, sat on it until the price went up, then I at least got my money back. I do like the 6-36 though.
This optic is not perfect but becoming proficient with it will get you closer to perfection. For me it’s the best platform I’ve encountered in my 61 years. The gives and takes are in the right place and the correct proportions. Your review is perfectly laid out and nails every aspect of the gen3. I believe it’s the operator behind the gun that will make the difference.
Thank you for a honest review. I believe your review is the most straight forward and detailed out of any I’ve seen. The others just seem to talk about how great it is while neglecting to point out any flaws or shortcomings. Keep up the great work.
I just recently picked up this scope and I love it myself! Although I would have to agree with all the issues that you pointed out with it. Overall great review, I would love to see you do a NightForce ATACR review one day as well and how it stacks up to this and other high end LPVOs.
The most important thing to me in an lpvo is eye box and eye relief. I would sacrifice overall magnification in almost all cases for forgiving eye box, which is why I really like the p4xi. Ive got it in an American defense QD mount on a centurion arms cm4 11.5 and while many say 1-4s are dated, for what I have the setup for its perfect as it covers all the primary bases, but the parallax took some getting used to for sure.
100% agree. That magnification isn’t dated. People still using plenty 4x Acogs. It “feels” dated. Manufacturers are constantly trying to package extra zoom power into a scope and sacrificing the overall usability.
Awesome scope. Awesome review. I see why folks like this model. They set the bar high with that magnification range in such a quality unit. I bought the gen ii-e 1-6 even though the 1-10 had already been released. I shoot 500 yards and in so 6x gets it done. And comparing them side by side the eyebox is better on the 1-6 and the center of the reticle is finer at max magnification. And like you said the glass is more consistent through the magnification range.
Perfect review. This is exactly why you see so many Gen 3’s on the market. I traded my mint condition Gen 2 + cash for a Gen 3…and I regret that decision almost daily. The Gen 3 has fisheye, a tight eye box, and I HATE that you lose the illumination if your reticle is in the scope shadow. My only complaint on the Gen 2-E was the weight. I wish it was closer to 16 ounces.
@@sethrich5998 the K16i was nearly perfect. I just didn't like the battery compartment and how the terminals are a joke. For way less then half the price the Stryker HD tho
@@CDOES Completely agree with that. I’ve yet to have a connection failure, but the battery compartment design does seem cheap. In practical use it’s been fantastic though. To be fair, I also got a killer deal on a demo unit which made the cost well worth it comparatively. Quite pricey at full cost though. I’ve also heard great things about the Delta, yet to see one in person yet. For super expensive the March 1-10x is interesting as well, incredibly small/light. Although that’s like a unicorn to find one to look at before buying it.
The eyebox issue makes complete sense to me. I've been really suspicious of claims that the gen 3 has as good of an eyebox as the gen 2. That's just not how optics work, when you have exactly almost exactly the same size as the 1-6. I have the accupower 1-8 and the credo 2-10 and I'd say if you want 10x, just try something like the Credo 2-10 and take advantage of the bigger objective
@@CDOES I think I know what they're going to be, definitely some issues at 10x. I still find it useable, but ymmv. I more meant that a 2 or 2.5-10 from several companies would be a better choice than this 1-10, for much less
After I did some fine tuning with the diopter, I have no fisheye issues with mine. Can’t say I have a whole lot of issues with eye box personally but everyone is different.
Lucas Botkin from Trex Arms was one of the first to say he didn't like this scope and that the 1-6 was superior. I'm glad I heard from him, because every single other RU-vidr or instructor I have listened to has had nothing but positive things to say about this scope. Makes you wonder if anything went on behind the scenes...
I don't think there is malicious intent. It just happens to be the case that the majority of guntube reviewers know little to nothing about optics and don't carry out thorough and repeatable testing.
@@gwiz7746 the p4xi for me is my go to because when I got it they were sub $400 and absolutely insane value for money. 10hrs battery life at max is not a huge deal for me. Middle power on that this is till red dot bright. Everything is relative and I try to make that known through our my videos. The K16i was/is a excellent scope. But the battery compartment issue for me was a massive let down. For less then half the price of that, I'd much rather get a Stryker HD.
@@gwiz7746 DLO actually loves the Razor gen 3 and is a big reason I bought one. The problem with optic reviews is that they are so subjective especially when you consider the high cost of the optics. To some people like DLO, 2k is a relatively budget optic and others don't even factor in price at all like Garand Thumb who gets everything for free. To most regular people, 2k for an optic is a hard pill to swallow and it better be almost perfect for that price, which is the camp I think C_Does's reviews fall into. I like my Razor gen 3, but I don't think I'd buy it again after owning it as it isn't mind-blowing and is too much scope for me. I was probably better off with something simpler and having more cash for ammo/accessories.
Thank you for the honest review. I have the Gen 2-E and perhaps the best feature is it’s extremely forgiving eye box. Sorry the physics don’t work on the 1-10x (yet). Worse, Vortex just hiked the MSRP on the Gen III by $500 or 25%. That is Nightforce territory. No thanks.
I have one and share a lot of the thoughts except for the fisheye which I found to be very acceptable after messing with the diopter a bunch. The first setting I used was approx 1/2 turn out and while the reticle looked good there was pretty significant fisheye effect. After more time behind the scope and further adjustments I've settled on about 7/8 turn out and the image is much flatter with minimal to mild edge distortion, much closer to the Razor G2E 1-6 I have to compare against. I have the G3, G2E, and Accupower 1-8 and for my usage on 5.56 rifles I prefer a G2E with the JM1 reticle due to it's red dot bright illumination on the very precise reticle and it's more modest weight compared to the Accupower. The accupower is a great allrounder but I think it's meh reticle is a detriment and it's a pig. The G3 is a good jack of all trades but it definitely trades some of the magic from the G2E for the ability to reach out to 10x. In general I've moved away from FFP LPVO's since the reticle always seems to be a compromise and in general if I'm taking long enough shots to use the BDC I'm going to be zoomed in anyways. The G3 FFP reticle is the best I've personally used, but it's still not great compared to the hyper intuitive, super precise G2E options.
There are many give and takes. And for me and my reviews I mention the things that stand out to me. For the price it should be a touch better. Plus coming from a G2E I had higher expectations.
It feels like Vortex brought this to market to fill the request for a coveted gen3 razor, going 1-10 just to meet a paper impression the fans were craving
I would have like to have seen it with a side by side comparison between other lpvos, for example: “ here’s the trijicon with no fish bowling at 1x and here’s the vortex. To see just how bad it’s weak points are comparatively
Great video, thanks for the review. Personally the eye-box is acceptable to me and easy to find when whipping the gun up but YMMV. I do agree the slight fish-bowl is disappointing at this price point though.. no free lunch
I'm about halfway through the video but wanted to write this comment. First I'd like to say thank you for being so honestly and candid. Aside from your fantastic 1st POV style filming I always appreciate your sincerity. After watching only half of this video I can assurdly say that I probably wouldn't want something like this in favor of something like the gen 2 E model for an LPVO. I own the PST and love almost everything about it (that darn magnification ring is stiffer than a corpse on the first turn). What I really would love to see now is a review of something like the PA 2.5-10 Glx scope with the Griffin mil reticle (or even the BDC ACSS one). I'm definitely intrigued by that and could conclude that something like it with an offset dot might be better if the 10x magnification is seriously desired/needed. As far as an LPVO goes I don't see much need for the 10x on a typical carbine aside from PID. Not sure it's really worth the trade off and cost however. Thanks again for your time reviewing this scope! Let me know if there's a chance to get to the PA Glx model I mentioned!
Thank you for the kind words! It's funny you mentioned that mag range. I have 2 optics that I will be bringint out soon that are in that range. Not the PA tho. BUT I do love that mag range, and feel it has a massive potential for the majority of intermediate cartridges and people. I have a personal plan to get my hands on every optic in that range. But far more specifically. In that range wity a front objective smaller then 44 and with a 30mm tube.
Good idea! I just went with the GLX 2.5-10x with the Raptor M2 reticle. Although I don’t like the 30mm tube, it’s a solid optic and the reticle is dead on out to 600 yards. I shoot Open, and rarely have my LPVO below 3x and use an offset red dot for close targets.
Your channel need to be bigger than it is!! Fucke Awesome content and info, I’m in the market for a new optic for my née build and I stumbled upon your channel while researching one of my option (vortex uh1 gen 2) and then saw that you had videos of a couple of other optics I’m considering so I’ve been just binging your video! Thanks and keep up the great work man!
I recognized Zeos' house and had to do a double take. I'm now realizing hes probably mentioned you in passing during a stream or something. RIP Chewbacca
You are like the best neighbor ever. I can only imagine the talks in that flat. Dude you saw 104 clearing the shit out of the washing room? Yeah, sick Broooo.
Your review had me looking for the trijicon accupower 1-8.. unfortunately discontinued. Have you got to get your hands on the eotech Vudu 1-10? Thoughts?
Man, the best lpvo deep dive I have ever seen! But was entertaining, what I needed and nothing I didn't! Now do the eotech vudu 1-10 so I can finally make a decision lol
Would like see a SWAMPFOX in your future reviews. I currently have to Arrowhead 1-8 (1-6/10 is also available) and this is an excellent lpvo and at the price point of under $500.
I don’t know why, but I was more impressed and fascinated by the house and the cars than the 1-10. Guess I expected better considering the reputation of their II-E. Wonder how this stacks up against the ATACR that’s also expensive but has not that desirable eyebox and relief.
I have no issues with this scope in 2-gun and gas gun competitions. If you use the proper mount and not some crazy high mount, you won’t have any issues. All you need is a good cheek weld position. I said this a thousand times and I’ll say it again, nobody is running and gunning on 10x, so the right eye box is not an issue on this scope or any scope for that matter.
The gen 3 1-10 has a fixed parallax setting @ 150 yds, so a "true scope" with manual parallax adjustment would be objectively better at 10x than the razor gen 3 at 10x.
@@backwoods3795 Nothing at all, I too have several. Been running for decades before it was the new thing. My thing is if you want an LPVO and mainly shoot 1x then get one with the right reticle, red dot bright, simple, no need more then 1-6x as the 1-8x and 1-10x lack a few things in the higher magnification and take.away the lower magnification. Now if you wanna shoot 300+ or mainly mid to long range then get a standard scope and maybe offset RDS, better suit your needs. LPVO setup can be a do all to a degree, but can hurt you at times depending on the intended application you need or want. When I started we had shit LPVOs and they have only gotten better.
@@backwoods3795 Nothing wrong with LPVOs, they are the best of both worlds. Just know the compromise on something like the 1-10, which is slight fishbowl at 1x, a fixed 150 parallax setting which may slightly effect long range shooting and image clarity, and a tighet eyebox. That being said, I own the Gen3 and am all about it.
I got this on a decent sale last year. You’re not wrong, the eye box is a bit of a bitch at higher magnification. I love the reticle. I love the daylight bright dot. I jumped up from a PA 1-6 acss 2nd focal plane. Only way I see myself using higher than 6 magnification is in prone or in another supported shooting position. Cause that eye box.
It’s interesting to me that the Razor 1-10 and the NX8 1-8 have the same complaints being so dramatically different in size and weight. It makes me wonder who would win a “Worst Eyebox” contest.
@@CDOES When there is a gap in the market, in terms of reviewers, stepping up to review optics your way is a great endeavor. I'm just glad an audio reviewer I enjoyed watching mentioned a reviewer of another hobby I enjoy. You make awesome video reviews of optics.
Well yeah...thank you for the Review. The price tag for this piece here in germany ist roughly 3k us-dollars. And i really was a bit pissed when i got my Viper PST 3-15x44 and a month later or so this thing popped up. I wanted to use it on my ar-10 for hunting. Now i run a 1-6 lpvo and the Viper. And after all, im glad it turned Out this way. I mean i get it... Trying to get it all in one piece. But what is it worth If it can everything a little...but nothing really at all.
So after all the reviews your favorite 1-8 is the accupower or creedo? And for 1-6 razor gen2 or creedo hx? You have the best reviews. Struggling with what i want. I just want to know what i should go look through when shopping
When it comes to the Eyebox if you mount it correctly in the PRONE position then you should be on point everytime you look through it. As long as you have the same or good cheek position.
I am a complete newbie when it comes to lpvo's, and I am also a gear snob that likes to "flex on the poors" as they say, from time to time, (yea yea so what, at least I'm not afraid to admit it).... anyways, naturally I had to sip the Kool aid and go for this same exact scope you reviewed. When I got all set and mounted (in a badger ordnance C1, 1.93 height mount) mind you. I was expecting the clouds to break open, with a beam of sun light shine down upon my rifle as the gods sang, as I slowly brought my rifle up to get behind the scope for my first time. As I did all I could say is.... "well that's gay" as I wiggled around to find that "G-spot" for my reticle. That God dayum eyebox bro just killed the whole thing for me, you can just about forget about dialing up to 10x also 😆. Awesome and most honest review as always my friend.
Spend more money on training and you’ll be much happier. Equipment doesn’t mean shit if you don’t know how to use it. Buy a Tangent Theta and ascend to godhood lol.
Loving your reviews bud, hands down the best on YT! But you haven't done any Swampfox LPVOs! Their Arrowhead lineup 1-6, 1-8, and 1-10 reviews are excellent, but I would love to see your take on them. I just picked up an Arrowhead 1-8x24 for
Beautiful optic but agreed.. it's about 1k$ over where it should be. They obviously don't want to sell and have to warranty to many of these. It's a shame, too. I would snatch it up @12-1500
I had both an MRAD and MOA version of this scope and came to the realization that the issues you mentioned with the MOA version are present with the MRAD as well, but the MRAD had SIGNIFICANTLY more fisheye. Even with diopter adjustments fined-tuned to the nth degree, the MOA version was just flatter. Took it upon myself to look up as many reviews as possible and almost all the ones that were positive reviewed the MOA version, and all the ones that were more tepid reviewed the MRAD version.
@@alexispadilla2606I didn't say anything about glass clarity, I meant specifically in regards to the fisheye. And you're right, it shouldn't have an effect on performance. But after a year and experience with five more of these first-hand, the MRAD still has more fisheye than the MOA. Why that is, I do not know.
Your videos are great. I know you have limited resources (well at least I think you do) but do you have any plans on reviewing some of the less expensive 1-10s out there, like the Swampfox and the two Athlon makes?
Usually inconsequential, but I remember a Burris XTRII negative review because the jackass dialed 50 MOA and was disappointed that it moved 52.3" like it should.
I purchased this scope from Liberty optics, had to wait a year for it to come in, but paid $1650, before the Vortex huge price hike. Glass is great, features are solid. I have the MRAD version. I do find the eyebox a bit picky as you stated, but not hugely different from my Sig Tango 6 1-6. However I do not have any of the fisheye your camera clearly shows. None, its clear from edge to edge on my scope. I'm wondering if Vortex has corrected some of those issues in earlier models, or perhaps this was a flawed scope you tested? I'm also finding that the sunshade the optic comes with helps. Thanks for the review!
Really wanted to get one of these. Def not gonna after this review. I thought it was a tad of a stretch anyway. Guess a 1-6 razer is in my future. People keep telling me the clarity is better on it. Plus i dont need 10 power for a 16 inch .223
I think it's impossible to make a ffp lpvo where you illumination shows up in the black eye shadow when off from proper eyebox. I think the razor 1-6 and delta styler are only usable because they are sfp and use micro fiber optic illumination. Even the s&b 1-8 goes dark off center. Maybe that new patented zeiss technology in their new long range scopes can fix this
I just purchased the trijicon 2-10 and hearing you speak so highly of the 1-8 I'm kicking myself. But I do test handloads at 100 and hunt to 400 more that anything so I still stand by the scope. It is dope it's just big and the fixed paralax sucks but whatever. Maybe the 1-8 will be next
Another solid review. I'm putting my review together and I've ran into the same snags you have. I don't think I can touch yours though lol. Well done as always.
@@SnapD24 C_DOES is on point. But it's not an unusable by any means. But it was hyped up by influencers who got paid to do the reviews. I would balance this review, with 9 hole reviews, and see what you think. I agree with C_DOES and 9 Hole. I have a few different points I'm working on, but I want to take it out a few more times/get footage before I finalize it.
Aren't max zoom eyeboxes just limited to objective/zoom at the best? I'd expect 24/10 = 2.4mm at best... probably why it fisheyes because they had no wiggle room for a mask to clean up the edge.
Just me I couldn’t wait to get this sold my Razor 1-6 and got the 1-10 and I made a mistake for a 14.5 556 the 1-6 with the same size reticle is faster and clearer if you have a scar 17 I think this scope works but for a 556 I wish I would have kept the 1-6!!!🤯🔫👎🏼
Thank you for the review. I have 2 razors on my distance bolt guns. I have to admit I do have some challenges getting the proper eye relief quickly with my gen 3, 6 to 36 at higher magnifications. That being the case and your review, gives me pause moving on this LPVO. I spoke with vortex and their suggestion was adjustments to the ocular focus depending on shooting either closer or further. I understand the problematic application of that adjustment in all environments. This being my first LPVO purchase, I have a few questions. Is it true what it seems to me the MOA reticle includes a BDC and the MIL reticle is is simple graduated? Also, if my intention is to run this on a 556 platform carbine, has anyone zeroed specifically with a battle zero for targets close to 300 yards? For example a 36 yard zero and with the MIL reticle, have that zero in a ballistics calculator to hold or dial for further hits with heavier grain rounds? Thank you for anyone who may be able to offer any feedback.
Sold both of mine regrettably I found the same issues and honestly I think he was generous with Vortex on this scope. It is a complete failure for this price point. 1 and 10x is extremely lacking and he is completely right about the eyebox it is cheap nikon buckmaster bad. Also agree the the old accupower 8x is a waaaaay better option if fact this razor is more like 8x than 10x compared to them. I didnt expect it to be an S&B but its a 1200 scope at best. Sold both of mine for about 1/2 the price secretly many know about this thing so save yourself the grief
I sold my 1-10 after about a year of use I just couldn't handle the eybox anymore. I got the 1-8 atacr and compared it directly to the 1-10 and the eye box blows it out of the water. you almost cant even consider the 1-10 a 10X scope cause you cant even get behind it and utilize the reticle. really sad vortex dropped the ball they should've done the same reticle and everything in a 1-8.
I appreciate very much your comment. What for a big magnification if you cannot see fast the target because of bad eye box. Especially during IPSC competition when your shooting position are difficult.
I would say the same. Only 1 1-8x has been good from start to finish for me. 1-6 is definitely the sweet spot where the most of the market is. I'm fine with a 1-4, but I'm not pushing past 300y. If I was then a 1-6 would be ideal.
Comparing this review to the Kahles review, you seem to have a clear bias, even when the glass quality and eyebox is way better in the Kahles. The "but that's to be expected" attitude towards the Vortex was nowhere near the level of hatred you presented with the K18i.
I've had about half the people I've asked recommend this scope to, and the other half suggest the atacr 1-8. If someone else was paying for the optic, what would be on the top of your list, especially if you prioritize 1x performance?
Without getting my hands on one. I can guarantee the glass is incredible, but the illumination blows. Im sure its very well made just like the other Vudu I had gotten. I may have to buy one of those to find out.
@@CDOES did you get the vudu yet? Just grabbed a GEN III but definitely want to hear what you have to say on the Vudu. I have a Gen 2 1-6 and a 1-8 OPMOD, both solid.
@@CDOES yeah, it sucks. Especially at that price point. I was excited about this scope but seems that I can get something that works a lot better for me for cheaper.
That thing was roughly $1,800. Now, it's over 3K. Screw that,!!! Besides, it's heavy as hell and weighs your rifle down a ton. No longer worth it at all.