Warbringers: Jaina - Daughter of the Sea | Beyond the Sanctum - Lost Codex Reaction & Discussion 

Even better watching these 2 months later and all of them have come out, seeing the speculation people have about themes that will carry through all 3, and they were right.

I didn't realize that this is what I'm doing

@@jbutler8585 Even better: Rebinging a year later because godamn, this one still gives me chills.

Miasimon 👋

Honestly, allthough the lore of Warcraft is full of candidates for that questionable honor, i'd say that Jaina is probably the one person to go through the most shit in her life.

Andre Ware Yeah, she's not only a great voice actor, but also a good singer.

Only for the initiated, though. I'd wager that if you didn't play the Rexxar-story in WC3 TFT or just don't know too much about Jaina's backstory, watching this cinemtic will pose more questions than it answers.

@@shadowcat1606the only part of the warcraft universe i have touched is hearthstone, where i know only a few names like jaina here, but i found this piece absolutely fantastic. Tells a story through the song, nothing too complex on the surface (although i imagine for people invested in the lore it does delve into it nicely). The story of this is easy to take in and i even got chills when she raises the ship and the ending with her on the ship 'beware of me'.

(This is Jack) -- That's a great analysis. I wholly agree!

There is also a tremendous aspect of guilt for her ... in her mind her decision to let the horde kill her father only achieved that they were powerful enough to attack Theramore in the fashion they did. Rhonin had a family, Theramore was her kingdom she should have been the one to die in his place another source of guilt. In the novel Tides of war there is her apprentice Kinndy, and she made a promise to the young woman's/girls parents that she would be safe as long as Jaina was alive .. she failed add to that the scene where the girls corps crumbles to violet dust... that adds some big guilt. Add to that the guilt already present for abandoning Arthas and all he did etc ... With Sylvanas abandon/betraying the Alliance at the Broken shore, resulting in Varians death that is another source of guilt as she was the one who prevented Varian from attacking the Horde in the Undercity during WotL, meaning in her mind her decision allowed to stay Sylvanas in power and be in a position to do this ... And it seems the wounded and broken Jaina can only deal with it by turning it into anger and pointing it at those that at least a little she can rightly be angry at. But she did deal with it somewhat during the War Crimes novel ... at least on an individual level, she does not trust the Horde as an organization anymore ... that is why she wanted Varian to dismantle it at the end of MoP.... Its is also why we dont hear about Jaina unlike say Gen lashing out at the horde during Legion ... where ever she was from the comic Reunin i seems she was on her own whacking demons, but she left the Horde alone...

Man, as horde I even felt bad about setting fire to Stormwind. But it was pretty badass her chasing through out. It felt tense even if I knew she wouldn't actually kill me...

@@xDarkTrinityx Setting fire to Stormwind ?

It wasnt that drastic at all. After the horrific massacre at Stratholme, death of her father, the atrocities of Arthas as the Lich King, the destruction of Theramore, the Sunreaver betrayal over the theft of the Divine bell from Darnassus, Garrosh's assault on Anduin at Mogu'shan vaults, and the death of King Varian. It's no wonder that she got fed up with "Hating having to resort to violence."

Definitely some duality there. Both with them being impaled, the symbolism that it’s Daelins ship she’s raising while impaled by the guilt of the whole ordeal. Good eye!

They better let Rexxar have a plotline better than what we've seen so far in Stormsong Valley! He has a few cool lines regarding Jaina, but he needs to take a little of the spotlight for anything to make sense. Actually, having him rejoin Chen, Thrall, Rokahn and Vol'jin would be mindblowing

I was trying to imply it’s the ship she uses in an upcoming scenario, but yes! Really cool

Yep. It's the Proudmoore, Daelin's flagship.

Jonathan Borg "futile", you can't say that you strive for peace while letting your city take territory from the other side Both sides are guilty of it..but theramore was hers alone, why did she not stop them? Why did she abandon khadgar and anduin without thought? Why punish EVERYONE for the actions of some? She has no claim to being the hero anymore, or to being one who strives for peace, she abandoned that goal well before theramore fell

I'm sorry- old stories? The old lore episodes? As in the one like we released yesterday?

Jaina Proudmoore = Arthas Menethil 2.0 (?)

youtube: Warbringers: Jaina | Did Jaina Proudmoore Just Become The LICH KING??

MyViolador too bad she still has the same habit that led to her fathers death..ignoring everyone around you Do you think daelin would've wanted a two pronged war instwad of allyimg with an enemy?

josh spradling he wanted to eradicate the horde.... even though at the time that horde was one that seeked peace... so i dont think he cares he just wanted them dead.

way to completely misunderstand lore he wanted vengance against the horde and justice the horde rampaged across the lands, killing thousands and destroying numerous strongholds and his son then thrall decides that it's fine because reasons? this AFTER he decides to start breaking the orcs out of prison and declaring a new horde and do you know HOW they got a navy? they took it so break out of prison fight the alliance to free others steal ships from the navy declare yourself the horde (with all the same titles) and then that horde is setting up camps...including training warriors and slowly taking over a major chunk of an entire continent i'm sure if we arrested all members of isis and then they did the same we wouldn't EVER think they're full of shit on the peace thing right? the horde claimed to seek, but their first actions were by all measures acts of war either way he wasn't dealing with a full scale invasion on another front that would see his army split in two lest it be overrun

Thanks Sandor

I guess you can see this in the video :D when they sang about the story of her father you can see his ship as a vanishing ghostship and the ship Jaina is raising seems to be the exact same ship to me

It was her fathers ship :)

well, i actualy think the same. That the ship is that of her father. It would give the video even more dept

It's the same ship that will bring you to Boralus and it also explains why Jaina had a Ship from Kul Tiras in the first place. Also the symbol of the anchor on the ship is a hint that it's Daelins Flagship

i'm prob going on a Zandalari ship to Boralus :p. Buth yea, the anchor and the paying of the feary man (who is the ghost of her father "haunting" her) gives it a bigger meaning, buth this is my opinion and maybe i'm looking to deep into it

id buy a replica so fast, after this

Definitely agree. I assumed it was Daelin the second we saw his 'face' because of the moustache. They given Daelin a concrete, lore look in the comic and the Ferryman's facial hair matched his identically. But it wasn't so much that her Dad was there, in person, guilting her through the song but rather a mental 'shoulder figure' throughout whole time.

The Lost Codex and then the fact that she gave the ferryman the necklace of her dad as a payment but then later he wore it around his neck instead of being a payment that you would normally place in your pocket, which really reinforces that it’s like a partial metaphor for her dad

I also like to think that she is going to go full force against the Horde as like Navy Admiral or something. She's going to wreak havoc on the Horde.

Martin.Asty They are stupid, have no clue what is going on in the video. Hahaha, dislike from me.

He called me Handsome!

Made this better with his face in the corner. 😚

Right????

There is a Greek term and name for an old sea goddess called Thallasa. In this context, a culture based on the sea like Kul'Tiras could be referred to both as Kul'Tiran or Tirasian. You could maybe make the same argument for the Quel'Thalas which I have enterpreted as meaning" High Seahome" as their Sunwell is on an island, their elven dialect being called Thallasian. It's just a thing I noticed.

If the Horde isn’t scared now I don’t know what will scare them. I absolutely LOVED this and can’t wait to watch the other 2 left!

YOU beware, especially! We're coming for YOU!

Shawna Pelander Come at us.

www.wowhead.com/quest=9175/the-ladys-necklace Here we are!

Also Jaina, could have single handedly destroyed Orgimmar in it's entirety, but Kalegcos talked her off the edge.

He's the Lord Admiral, he definitely didn't betray her, so I can't accept that interpretation. Standing aside and let your father be killed, knowingly, is a pretty shitty thing. As long as she could believe in "for the greater good" it probably all worked out fine because she had greater concerns and could justify indirect patricide as a sacrifice for the greater good. There were certainly many more options Jaina could've explored, but she saw the greater good and knowingly sacrificed her father. Daelin's perspective on the orcs was understandable and the way for him to protect his loved ones and their land, was definitely to wipe out the orcs. A young, blue-eyed Jaina wouldn't convince him that letting them live was a good option. However, WC3 is about the overarching story, about cooperation across species against a greater threat (and you get the overview perspective, which is wrong to judge from), but once that is over, one is back to factional warfare, and the question is then asked you "was your sacrifice for the greater good worth it?". The crime is still there, even if you say it was necessary and it makes actions have weight to them as well (which is why I appreciate the Warbringer cinematic). That's why you have superheroes like Batman or Spiderman, facing the same things, but not accepting the sacrifices and instead being faced with their failures in terms of saving people or facing the toll on themselves and the trauma they have.

He is the Lord Admiral *of Kul'tiras* giving orders as Lord *in Theramore,* a completely different nation. And before being the Lord Admiral, he is her father. He stood aside from her first, when he decided Jaina was a little girl throwing a tantrum instead of a woman having chosen a path. There were no other options, since Daelin wouldn't have backed down. Let's say she stayed Rexxar's hand; Daelin would've taken that chance to strike. She did everyting in her power to stop that from happening, save for killing a whole side of the conflict. She didn't tied her father or anything like that, for him to be murdered, she just let him had the fight he wanted, after trying time after time to convince him otherwise. In the end, Daelin won the battle of wills, and she let him have his fight. Her only other option was to stand between her father and the Horde as an actual enemy for at least one of the sides, if not for both. There's no actual crime in Jaina's hands, since she only refused to take part in military actions from another nation. Rexxar and Daelin had a fair fight, and Daelin lost. It was not a 50 against one pitch, with her eating popcorn from behind. She stood aside, yes, but aside from Daelin's path, as he charged, as he wanted to, against the Horde. The only thing she did, was to refuse to take part. That could be considered a crime for it's a citizen of Kul Tiras disobeying a direct order from her Ruler, sure; but taking into account we are talking about a Ruler on her own, within her own city/nation, the only thing she did was to refuse an alliance with Lord Proudmoore, while not standing in his way, either. She feels it as a crime, because she could've prevented her father from dying and didn't, but she didn't put him on harm's way either; what's more, she tried to get him out of harm several times. She feels guilty, that's it. There's no actual crime, objectively speaking, even more so, no treason; but just two rulers of two different countries disagreeing. Regarding politics, regarding law, forgetting for a second they were family, the only crimes were commited by Lord Admiral Daelin Proudmoore. And I'm pretty sure, had he not been Jaina's father, things would've gone terribly wrong for this invader, because he commited acts of war against the Horde but against Theramore, as well. He was just undermining his daughter, we know that, but he was also insulting the ruler of Theramore while occupying her city, strotting as it was his own backyard. Don't believe me? Imagine the Amani Trolls making the exact same moves; how would Theramore, or any other nation for that matter, have answered to these aggressions? Not enough? Ok, imagine, then, the Amani Trolls were not doing this in Theramore, but in Uldum, because they wanted to march on AQ. Would the Ramkahen have bowed down their heads as Jaina did? Would them have commited their army to Zul'Aman, as Daelin pretended Jaina did? Or would they have stayed their ground against the aggressor? And once again, it was Daelin who failed to recognize her as a woman and as a ruler. As you said, he saw "a young, blue-eyed Jaina" instead of the Ruler of Theramore. He chose to belive his daughter was "A young, blue-eyed" girl and undermined her, while she begged him to listen for one second, and to respect her choice. It's like a misogynist father in denial of his gay son. It's not the son's fault the father chooses to be unable to deal with it, same way as it was not Jaina's fault Daelin chose to undermine every attempt she made at settling things down with no more bloodshed. Daelin declared War against the Horde, committed acts of War against Theramore, and lost the War he started. Theramore didn't even act on being occupied by a foreign force. Everything that happened can be tracked to Daelin's choices; if you go to war, there's a pretty good chance you're going to die. You cannot blame it on Jaina because, as a Ruler, she stood true to what she said from the very begining: She didn't want that fight, she tried to prevent the fight, and she did not take part on the fight. And she did all of that as the Ruler of the sovereign nation of Theramore. And if even now you cannot see the point I'm making, let's imagine a relative of yours, without your permission gets into your house, sits in your couch, his feet on your table, while drinking your beer he took from your fridge, and commands you to fight your neighbour because s/he hates your neighbour's father. Would you fight your neighbour or would you kick your relative the fuck out of your house? I'm guessing the latter, right? But for Jaina that would've meant taking arms against Kul Tiras and against her father. She could not get herself to force her will on him as Daelin tried to force his upon her; she tried to make him see her reasoning and to respect her decissions. He chose not to listen.

gamestory Even Katherine Proudmoore said it now: "You couldn't save him from himself." No betrayal in Jaina whatsoever.

it could be interpreted as a sea shaunty. I feel influence of yo ho (pirattes)

Maybe a sort of slow sea chanty, otherwise check out Malukah. She is awesome in this sort of ballad type songs, ( mostly about skyrim). But this singer was also really good.

That's what I was trying to say without really saying it? I REALLY wanted to mention a certain cinematic/cut scene involving the ship...but didn't want to spoil it. But yes!

The thing is, Daelin only saw it one way: Old Horde. He saw the same Orcish Horde who killed his son. He saw the same Orcish Horde who put Stormwind civilians to the axe. He saw the same Orcish who Horde who invaded his planet only this time? They had picked up savage, monstrous allied on the way. So Jaina doing what she did, helped establish peace in that very moment by stepping aside. What's exciting for me is how its all coming together now. Its never once been a part of her arc in WoW- her betrayal of Daelin- and now its coming full circle beautifully. She's accepting it.

It was less on how can she raise the ship and more of a similarity drawn between her and Forsaken ships. Both Jack and I love the arcane lore and I've seen a TON of reaction videos asking "How can she do this!" but really, as you explained, its not outside her power. Given the fact she is near the top of her class-list...there's nothing to say she can't.

The Lost Codex Agreed, all the three have the death next to their side more or less. Oh, I forgot to mention Azshara as the most powerful mage so nevermind that about the six most powerful for which i meant The Council of Six... Anyways, thank you for the reaction video and all the other brilliantly created videos (especially the lore ones). Love your voice! Keep the good work!