Was Jesus Executed on a Cross, a Stake, or a Tree? 

No I didn't and no it didn't. If you watched the video you'd know the evidence we have shows his hands were nailed from the sides, just like his feet, leaving a wide open space as long as you want above his head. Try thinking next time, or at least watch the video. This was the main point and it's even clear from the thumbnail. Guess you forgot...

​@@CWJahTubeI wathed the film thorougly. You just said that his hands were nailed separately. 15:06 you say "I believe (...) that his hands could have been placed OVER HIS HEAD".

@magorzatak4037 Right. His hands are over his head, and pulled to the side where they are nailed just like the feet. You said there's no room for the sign over his head. Wrong.

@@CWJahTube Then the titulus would have to be between his hands or above.

@magorzatak4037 Exactly. It's directly over his head, between his pulled back hands.

That's a very good analogy 👏

Early Christians didn't use the cross because of the trauma and because people were still getting crucified. The cross didn't become a Christian symbol until after people were no longer getting crucified. We would not worship a shot gun or rope because sadly people still die because of those things. Also Christians don't worship the cross its self but what the cross represents.

The idol is actually a mere _schematic_ of the instrument of Jesus' unaliving. The Jews call the idol the Warp and Woof. Constantine stole it from the Imperial Cult which had used it to honor Caesars at their funerals (Justin Martyr, 1 Apology 55).

I have trouble believing it was a cross,if Jesus was killed by hanging would we wear nooses? I'm not a JW but I really would like to know the truth.

I agree,if he was hung,would we worship a noose?

I think they didn't care what they looked like as long as it did the trick,I don't think they cared.Sad to say.I wish I knew for certain.

Its simple.. take a look of a image of the bone on our hands

There is no way nail can handle our weight hanging on the cross

Me too

There is no archaeological evidence for any of that. Just stories. This video is about archeological evidence, not stories apart from evidence.

Jesus in John 8 said he would be lifted up like the serpent in the wilderness. That's an upright pole. Later stories about Peter and others do not change Jesus' traching.

I wouldn't say he wad wrong. There evidence in the Bible that this is actually how they executed people. Ezra 6:11 and though it's many years before Jesus. It does prove that that's the way some were executed. And take your arms and spread them out like you were on a cross. Then take your arms and put them above your head like they were nailed together and see which one is more painful. I promise it the one above your head. You have to remember that the Catholics and the Holy Roman empire screwed up and lied about A LOT of the history of Jesus' times. They have a statue at the Vatican that's supposed to represent Peter, but in fact it's a statue of Apollo the Sun God. The statue has a disk of the sun right above his head they just renamed it and said it was Peter. And there's another one of Mary holding the baby Jesus but it's actually a statue of the Goddess ISIS. And remember, most churches today are all derived from the Catholic churches. Baptist churches say yeah we agree with the trinity that you people believe in but we don't pray to saints, and the southern Baptist are a split from them, and the Lutherans, Protestant, Evangelist, are all a split from them too. The all follow the Catholic church just a different variation of them. And I wouldn't trust anything that the Catholics leaders say or do.

Wow..interesting. your perspective makes sense. How could he carry a stake so big that when erected he had to be given a sip of vinegar with an extension (spear)...hmmm..interesting.

@@jessekings7828 he didn't carry it all the way Jesse, Simon of Cyrene helped Jesus carry his stake and the stake would've been the same height and length as a cross would have been, what that other guy said didn't make sense at all. Here's what does make sense. They didn't have an abundance of trees in Jerusalem back then because all their trees were imported from Tyre and other surrounding areas which isn't much. Trees were a highly prized thing back then and to cut up 3 of them to put Jesus and the 2 criminals on would've been a waste. They were condemned men and they wouldn't have used up a highly prized commodity for criminals. A single stake would've sufficed.

You are literally blowing your own argument out the window with your reasoning. It would be even more impossible for any person to carry such a big cross that he had to be given that sip on a spear.

a telephone pole has a cross piece for the wires. do you call it a telephone cross or a telephone pole? Jesus just has to reference the cross piece. the cross didn't originate with the Roman's. a stake or tree was used earlier in bible times. this all really doesn't matter. he was unjustly executed for declaring that he was God's son.

Well the Catholic Church, from which evolved all Christianity, got their cross from the Imperial Cult (Justin Martyr, 1 Apology 55) during the reign of Constantine. The earlier church did not otherwise know of this cross. The Antenicene Fathers knew of a five-pointed cross or torture-stake, one well-known point of which served as a projecting or excessive seat (Tertullian, Ad Nationes 1.12.3-4), a support for the one who is affixed with nails (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 4.24.4), a horn that the crucified 'rode' (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho 91.1-2), and a central pale that was mounted at the mid-point of the main upright stake (Tertullian, An Answer to the Jews 10.7-8 & Against Marcion 3.18.3-4). The non-Christian writers were even more explicit! Seneca called the torture-stake a piercing cross (Moral Epistles 101.10-14), Virgil likened its projecting seat to the erect male member of Priapus (Catalepton 2a.18, found in the Priapeia 83 or 87), Lucian called the whole assembly an evil device upon which tyrants impaled men (In the Court of the Vowels). Graffiti in Pompeii and Puteoli explicitly showed the nature of crucifixion (Pozzuoli Graffito & Vivat Crux Graffito), one was just the message IN CRVCE FIGARUS _(in cruce figaris),_ meaning "Go crucify yourself", "Va te faire crucifier" (Go make yourself to crucify - "Va te faire foutre" means to go frack yourself) in French, and "Läss durch an kreuz schlagen" (may you beat to the cross) in German. There's a gnostic depiction of Christ's crucifixion known as the Bloodstone Gem at the British Museum that matches Justin Martyr's description of the fixation of a lamb just prior to its being roasted for Passover (Dialogue with Trypho 40.1-3). Whether Jesus was historically crucified in such a manner is anyone's guess because official Roman policy at the time was to treat the Jews in accordance with Jewish Law, which apparently would mandate that the seat of the cross/torture stake be a horizontal beam or dowel that passed between the legs instead (Lev. 18:22), yet Pilate was known by Philo and Josephus for his endless savage ferocity, brutality, and disrespect for Jewish Law.

The sign would fit above his head just like it would fit between his feet, since the feet and hands are on the side of the pole. The sign would go right above his head where there is no obstruction.

Thanks. But none of the OT examples you gave are said to have anything to do with how Jesus died. On the other hand... Jesus himself said he would be lifted up like the serpent in the wilderness in John 8. Crosses make no sense for serpents, and even less for an UNPLANNED, last minute execution. Either way, he was also put on a "tree," the Greek word for which means a straight wood club in the very gospels which teach about Jesus being killed. So I'll go with Jesus and what he said about how he was lifted up (like a serpent) and with how XYLON ("club," "tree") is used in the gospels over your unproven OT connections.

You're welcome!

Some people just really like having as many FACTS as possible. Especially with subjects they are very interested in.

Seeking the truth in every place you can find it helps paint a clearer picture to a person who wants to avoid being taught something that is not true. That is how I look at it. In practice though it would be a silly thing to argue with someone about. Two people though being able to have a reasonable calm discussion about a very small thing such as this though would certainly demonstrate their maturity.

Do you have any physical evidence for your position from the first century CE? If not, it makes no difference for this discussion, and you have no basis upon which to say what was the "typical Roman execution" in the first century contrary to what the only physical evidence we have shows. The physical evidence we have shows the feet were nailed from the sides, not from the front, as is wrongly shown for Jesus. It also shows the hands could have been similarly nailed from the sides and so why Thomas said "nails," which argues against the form of a cross, which is inconsistent with the use of XYLOS in the very context of Jesus' execution for a straight "club." XLYOS is never used of a cross in the NT.

if their legs were nailed on the side, it makes sense that they may have been slighty bent causing the convict to push his weight upright using his leg muscles in order to relieve stress on the diaphragm which I believe would cause extreme exhaustion not allowing the victim to breath , henceforth breaking of legs would cause a quick demise... I believe overhead hand position is more plausible anatomically and logically to produce this result. Again just a thought.

It doesn't appear to make a difference, since the key difference with respect to cross v. stake is the position of the hands.

@@justind9356 how can he be nailed without breaking bones? Psalm 34:20

@@unmeritedfavour48 the nails would be driven through the soft tissues between the bones.

No one knows.

Venerating or using any image as part of one's religious worship is not Christian.

Exactly. Plus, if the hands were nailed from the side, as were the feet, that explains why the text says the sign was above his head.

To what "angle of the dried blood" are you referring?

@@CWJahTube As shown on his image on the Shroud of Turin, when he was on the cross in the 'Y" position, the blood ran down is arms at an angle. When he died and was taken off the cross and covered with the Shroud, where the Shroud touched his arms proves that his hands were not straight over his head when he was staked to the wood.

@beverlyhurd8556 You haven't proven the Shroud is authentic. Besides, as I discuss in this video, his hands would have been nailed to sides of the pole, like the feet, not directly above his head, which would cause the very Y pattern you describe.

@@CWJahTube As millions of intelligent people know, it was *proven* by many dozens of doctors, scientists, archeologists, and other highly trained researchers and their _tens of thousands of hours_ of examination that the Shroud *most definitely* wrapped the body of a severely beaten, scourged and crucified man that was wearing a crown or cap of thorns before he died. Are you really silly enough to believe that this was someone _other_ than our Lord Jesus? No one on the planet Earth can say with 100% certainty that the Shroud once wrapped the body of Christ, but it sure is obvious to quite a few million of us that it's the Real Thing. And if you want to be in the extreme minority that actually believes that he was nailed to a stick, fine by me. Believe whatever you wish in that regard.

Yes. Discussed in this video: ru-vid.comuY_fLZz42Fg?si=1SKrlbY4iMTCcnGO

Hopefully, it will limit the arguing and keep some on either side from overstating their case...

Jesus hands above his head 1 Tim 2:8

To be fair, only 3 other translations read nail (singular), i.e. 'nail marks', which could refer to one nail or more than one. And if helon is plural (nails)...

You're not the only person on the planet with different interests.