Was King Jaehaerys Targaryen A Bad Father - Game Of Thrones / House Of The Dragon Theory

Подписаться 61 тыс.

Просмотров 31 тыс.

50% 1

Jaehaerys and Alysanne had the most children out of any king and queen in the history of the seven kingdoms. In total, they had 13, but some did die as babes. Some would die young, and some would go on to change Westeros forever. In this video we'll take a look at some of their many children, and how each one of them presented the king and queen with a unique challenge. We also talk about the massive divide between their older children and those born later in life. Having this many children is seen by some to be one of the direct causes of the Dance of Dragons many years later. But The main question i want to ask is Was King Jaehaerys a bad or even neglectful father to his children.
------------------------------------------------
SUPPORT THE CHANNEL ON PATREON
------------------------------------------------
/ worldofwesteros
------------------------------------------------
SOCIAL MEDIA
------------------------------------------------
World0fWesteros
World-Of-Westeros
-----------------------------------------------
ART LINK
-----------------------------------------------
The following link is for all the art that I use, if you see an image in this video a link to the source of it will be there, and the name of the artist if it's possible to find.
docs.google.co...
Thumbnail art by @NicaMinoru and BenjiSkyler
-------------------------------------
TAGS
------------------------------------
#gameofthrones #asoiaf #houseofthedragon #hbogameofthrones #asongoficeandfire #got #fireandblood #danceofdragons #windsofwinter

Опубликовано:

16 окт 2024

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист

Посмотреть позже

Комментарии : 106

@chaskagonzales3398 3 года назад

I believe that, in the beginning, Jaehaerys did try to be a good father (seeing how he treated his first children), but, when the younger children came, he didn't know how to deal with them due to how vastly different they were from the first ones or the amount of responsibility he had from being king and raising the future heir and spare. Thus, he decided that the best option would be for Alysanne to deal with them (which, to be fair, she did try her best). Another fact to consider is that he nor Alysanne had a really good parental figure to guide them because, although Aenys was a good man, he was weak (along with some cowardice) and Maegor was... Maegor. So, when the time came to deal with his younger children, Jaehaerys possibly didn't know how to deal with them thus he could have tried to copy some of the ways he was treated during his childhood (by copying what his father or uncle did) and hope for the best outcome.

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

That's a really interesting point about Aenys and Maegor, it would have 100% of had some kind of impact when it came to both Jaehaerys and Alysanne's parenting. I also agree with the idea he put so much time and energy into the elder because of the responsibilities they would have when he died.

@aaroncohen2700 Год назад

I can see that. When it comes to Vaemond and his daughters it honestly just seemed like he wanted them dealt with more than anything. He seemed almost at a loss of what to do when his children didn’t follow his orders/expectations, and it always seemed like Alysanne was the one explain their children’s actions to Jaehaerys, especially in the case of his more rebellious daughters.

@Isuream6331 10 месяцев назад

Being kept as hostages for 6 years under a psychopathic uncle probably wasn’t the best for their mental state

@ferea_896 3 месяца назад

@@Isuream6331 except they weren’t anywhere near him actually, they were in dragonstone, with their mother and Visenia. They actually survived because they were the ones who had no contact with their uncle. They were at his mercy and if he wanted them dead he could do it, but again there were so many above them including two older brothers. That he never bothered to bring them to court

@tanoshiofm3852 Год назад

Jaehaerys: Am I a bad father, Daenerys? - My name is Viserra.

@comradekenobi8146 3 года назад

I think Saera was Jaehaerys' "little girl," and her comparing herself to Maegor the Cruel shocked the shit out of him, and made him realize how little he knew his own daughter. Then, when Saera tried to steal a Dragon, Jaehaerys openly wondered if it would have been The Black Dread, Maegor's own mount... A rogue prince or princess with that dragon would be a massive threat to him and his eldest children and their children. Jaehaerys was the master of the veiled threat. And his daughter, who openly compared herself to Maegor the Cruel, attempting to steal Balerion the Black Dread... What greater veiled threat could there be? She was threatening to destroy him, the rest of his children and grandchildren, and the realm he'd dedicated his entire life to building. He could probably have eventually overlooked her childish insults, her defiance, and her dishonoring her family. He could probably eventually forgive everything she'd done up to that point, but when she crossed the line into threatening everything he cared for, everything he'd worked to build, he had to decide whether he cared more for his relationship with his daughter, or the well-being of the realm and the rest of his family.

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

very well thought out, i agree with pretty much everything. People often overlook how Jaehaerys used veiled threats a hella lot. It worked though, and gave him a sense of authority

@wursteh5728 3 года назад

I seriously doubt saera could have seriously threatened her family with balerion as her mount. Her eldest brothers were both dragonriders themselves, and their mounts were also among the most powerful dragons alive (Vhagar and Caraxes). Not even balerion could have singlehandedly overpowered that duo.

@c.w.simpsonproductions1230 2 года назад

I don't think Balerion would have been that much of a threat. He was already in his advanced age by then, when Viserys II claimed him a few years later he could barely fly around King's Landing. I think it's poetic that Balerion was mostly unclaimed in an era of peace.

@zazrin5895 Год назад

@@wursteh5728 What if she took them out separately? - without the other knowing?

@theverysupercman97 Год назад

@@wursteh5728 It’s still a giant fire breathing lizard.

@DM-Oz 3 года назад

To be fair, while he did screw up a bit with his younger children, cant deny that RNG also screwed with him quite a bit, i dont think any other Targaryan ever put soo much effort into growing the perfect heirs, all that just for them to die before he does

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

The bad RNG is also a massive factor. Out of 13 kids they got extremely unlucky

@vladtheimpaler9577 3 года назад

I think Jaehaerys's flaw is overconfidence in his bloodline. Being such a mighty and wise man he though his children would be the same. He thought issues would solve by themselves because they are of royal blood and beyond the flaws of common men so he didn't concern himself with their problems until it was too late.

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

Very good assessments. I think it goes further than his bloodline as well. He did so well in his early reign in general he became overconfident

@vladtheimpaler9577 3 года назад

@@WorldOfWesteros Yep. After the life threatening trials he went through that shaped the future of the Realm he thought "compared to that how hard can it be to raise kids?". Jaehaerys was not immune to the characteristic Targaryen arrogance. Its just that he expressed it outside of things like war and statecraft.

@thalmoragent9344 Год назад

@@vladtheimpaler9577 I dunno, Aemon and Baelon were well accomplished, Maegelle and Vaegon were also decent as far as singular kids go, and Alyssa was also a good girl too, even if more of a tomboy. Honestly, Saerra, Vissera and Daella were the ones that lead to the most issues. And it's true what HotD said, that it was his daughters that caused Jaehaerys the most strife in his decisions. Overall, he wasn't that bad tbh, he was solid overall and it's hard being a good parent for, what, 13 kids? And even if half of them made it to adulthood, it's tough to say Jaehaerys was at fault for most of it. No one is perfect, especially parents who had a rough childhood to say the least, and so I wouldn't say he was an objectively "bad" parent outside of the situation with Daella. That one I'm not sure what he was thinking, I'd be interested if we had gotten to read what his response to Alysanne was when she called him out on it.

@gelrose8117 3 года назад

Jaehaerys might have had a part in Gael’s death too. It was said she drowned herself in her grief for her stillborn son. Gael would have saw what happened to her sisters, Saera and Viserra, for being promiscuous, never mind what he would have done if they became pregnant out of wedlock. Perhaps Gael couldn’t handle facing her father’s disappointment and was afraid of the consequences. I also have a theory that Gael’s son never died, and was only told that on orders of Jaehaerys. Reasons being because the baby would have been a bastard and would have had a noticeable birth defect. The baby would disprove the Targaryen’s Doctrine of Exceptionalism, which Jaehaerys could not allow at his daughter’s expense. So he told Gael the babe died while hiding the babe from the rest of the world. The child in question is none other than Mushroom. He appears randomly in the timeline with no explanations for his origins. His suspected birth fits in the time Gael would have gave birth to her child. Mushroom also believed it was possible for him to ride a dragon. In the Sowing of the Seeds, Mushroom’s pants caught on dragonfire, but he was unburnt. This might be a clue he can tolerate high heat as Targaryens are known for.

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

That’s a very interesting theory, as far as I can see nothing really goes against it. It’s definitely possible, it helps that the timeline gets a bit muddy and mushroom does just appear out of nowhere. The bit about him trying to be a dragon rider is very compelling.

@gelrose8117 3 года назад

@@WorldOfWesteros Thanks!

@Noouuuuu 2 года назад

Oh damn, I never thought about that!

@artur5308 Год назад

That's a super cool theory. Cheers.

@charlesor1023 3 месяца назад

George RR Martin would be like: write that shit down!

@billychops1280 3 года назад

I just rewatched this video and what I have to say is that Allysane clearly showed favouritism to her daughters be it with Daenerys then Daella and then Gael but she was always mad whenever Jaeherys did that with his sons, which I don’t think is very fair but whatever, I believe Jaeherys cared slightly more for his first few children (like the first 6) more than the last few and I also think he cared a little more for his sons as they didn’t really disappoint him as much as his daughters like Saera and vissera for example

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

I think what you highlighted really well is how complex the situation and family dynamic was. It is clear he did favor his older children, he obviously spent a lot more time with them thinking they were going to be the ones to rule and be the future of the realm. Both Jaehaerys and Alysanne had there clear bias, i don't think Jaehaerys was particularly unfair with his daughters and i think he did love them, just that with so many kids and being so busy being king he sort of became complacent with the upbringing. Alysanne on the other hand i don't think could see the flaws very well with some of her daughters, and that' blinded her to the fact that perhaps they did need a firmer hand.

@LyricalXilence 2 года назад

You have a point. The boys actually didn't do anything too bad. Vaegon was just a cold bookish child, but the other boys were above par. With the girls you have whorish Saera, Daella who is possibly of low intelligence, and sly Viserra who seems to lack regard for human life.

@NC-ij9rb 2 года назад

i think Jaehaerys tried to parent his older kids that's why we see them grow up to be upstanding princes and princesses but later on, as the duties of the crown took more of his time, he did not have enough time to parent the younger kids that's why we see most of them developing complexes

@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 Год назад

I think with his younger children he forgot the difference between ruling and parenting.

@ryanelliott71698 3 года назад

I think with Sera the point of where he lost it with her was when she on impulse tried to steal a dragon. We all know what happened last time when someone tried to do this. Princess Aerea and Balerion go missing for a year and Aerea dies a brutal death. It’s like letting your child play with a lion. Although he could have said more polite words to Alysanne over contacting Serra, she was a lost cause. There comes a time where you can’t influence a child as much. It kinda comes to when the children were born. Even with a few of the 13 children dying at a young age, I think it mighta been too much for the pair. If Sera and Viserra were born earlier, I think they could have grown up better. But I think you have a point with how Alysanne loved to match her children. It just might have been an oversight for Viserra. I think with Jahaerys he at least was involved with his chill deans life, to varying degrees. In comparison, Tywin completely neglected his 3 children. And because of his lack of interaction, Cersei’s behaviour had gone out of hand. Resulting in making the exact same mistake her father made. While with Tyrion he blames him for something that was out of his control and instead of having a father-son talk of why you can’t marry a commoner, has Tysha gang raped in front of his son before forcing him to rape his wife.

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

With Sera, the fate of Aerea is a good point. I was thinking about the and what happened with Alyssa Farman may also have been a factor. If Sera flew away with a Dragon and it was captured somehow, it presents the same issues Alyssa stealing the dragon egg's caused. Alysannes match making i feel goes deeper than her children as well. The matches did result in the demise of some of them, but also the alliances that were formed. basically formed who would be part of the Greens and Blacks in the Dance. Even some of the matches she made outside of House Targaryen would be follow a simular trend. With her match making, it did help in the short term but in the long term she helped create two very powerful political parties. You make a good point about Tywin. I don't think Jaehaerys meant to be cruel and i think some of the harsher choices he had to make could maybe be impacted by his responsibility as King. Ultimately what i think you can take away from Jaehaerys is even the best of kings has there flaws

@kayo5011 2 года назад

I don't even think he desired more children either. The only reason why was because he didn't want to take a paramour so he i think he felt compelled to his lay with this wife. I honestly feel sorry for Alyssa, gael and Daella, Maegelle. None of them deserved to die more so Daella and Gael.

@JaiAuthenti 3 года назад

I think Jaehaerys overall was a great person and father. Of course he could have been better with the ones he wasn’t as good with though. Imagine being a great king and father. After a while it can get tiring to do, which I think happen to Jaehaerys. He was an amazing king and a good father for so long he maybe got tired of doing those things and needed to relax. Very very underrated part of Fire and Blood! I loved this part a lot. Jaehaerys was my favorite king. The death of his children was just horribly tragic.

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

I think fire a blood often gets overlooked due to some of it being in the world book, but a lot of Jaehaerys stuff got added and it’s really underrated. What makes Jaehaerys so interesting is that he is flawed and not perfect

@rodellberry1151 2 года назад

My guy, I would just like to say that as an ASOIAF true fan, you have some of the very best content I've ever seen. I thank you and commend you sir

@WorldOfWesteros 2 года назад

I'm just glad there are more people out there who care as much about the lore as i do

@Senate300 Год назад

To his older kids, Jahaerys was a better father but with the younger kids, he & Alysanne made mistakes.

@delaneywillis3898 Год назад

I think you have to look at birth order theory. They started having children when they were younger and can keep up with them and give those children more attention and be more active with their upbringing. But the older you get and the more kids you have you get more lazy with your parenting and basically let the younger children do what they want. That happens in a lot of families that have more than 3 or 4 children. It was also noted that Queen Alysanne wanted to stop having children when she got into her forties but King Jaehaerys did not.

@liamsmyth8766 3 года назад

Really underrated channel mate! Keep up the great work 👍

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

thanks a lot for the support, glad you like the videos

@JaiAuthenti 3 года назад

Imagine being born into a world and your parents are the most beloved rulers so far ever, you are a prince and or princess, and you live amazing... you would probably be feeling untouchable too. I blame Jaehaerys for some of the deaths but imagine being a king since your teenage years... holy shit. So much responsibility and accountability it would get tiring to do anything that requires that. Overall, the deaths of his children are unfortunate and he could have done a better job, along with Alysanne. But they have a whole kingdom to rule. Just realized I am watching this for a second time and my opinion is the same 😂

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

I do suspect in his later years Jaehaerys became kind of jaded and lost his drive. Being the king for so long will ware you down a bit. More so from such a young age. You have to remember he was very very young when Maegor killed his brothers, so he had a lot of weight on his shoulders. i think it caught up to him when he was older.

@JaiAuthenti 3 года назад

@@WorldOfWesteros I definitely agree. He did his best but ran out of gas.

@ursaber 3 года назад

he failed with his younger daughters Daella, Saera and Viserra.

@josiahdavistv1216 3 года назад

When house of the dragon air your dragon going to explode

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

It is going to be interesting to see if it does have a impact. I’m hopeful

@hayleylongster4698 Год назад

I think J was overall a good father, and overall A was a good mother. Their parenting flaws stem from over-love rather than neglect imo. However, we have definitrly found a flaw in the invincible two! Maybe they just had too many children to be great parents to them all. Nice to know Targaryans are very human lol

@jaieregilmore971 2 года назад

You know what weird none of kings of Westeros ever willing to step down or retire being king and giving kingship to their heir instead of till the death a lot of things could had been solve if the old king guide the new king. Jaehaerys wasn’t a bad father and not the worst ones in Westeros it just that he had to many children to take care while ruling the realm.

@WorldOfWesteros 2 года назад

I had never thought about the idea of abdication in asoiaf but it would have solved a lot of issues in some cases

@jaieregilmore971 2 года назад

@@WorldOfWesteros Yeah Plus it solve Jaehaerys problem if he had willing to abdicate throne early to Aemon or Baelon before they die considering they was at their 30s in age it didn’t really need to be till the death. Also I always wonder what they going to do if the king gone crazy have safe guard case something the mad king happens.

@TraciPeteyforlife 2 года назад

Jaehaerys had a lot of things going on, and no strong father figure in his early life. He didn't know how to parent very well. Most anyone with a dragon is going to act stupid at times. Unless they realize that dragons are mortal. An despite what the seven speakers said. The Targs were also mortal men. Death can come at any point for anyone. An murder of important people is always something. That people are working too for many reasons.

@WorldOfWesteros 2 года назад

I had never really thought about him missing a strong father figure before

@XHammer-fs5pf 7 месяцев назад

Daella and Saera are the only children I truly believe he was a bad father towards, though in his defense in Daella’s case Westeros doesn’t have much knowledge about mental disadvantages and he had no idea how to deal with it after his patience ran out. I don’t believe her death was his fault but he could have done better. For Saera I firmly believe Jaegaerys had unresolved trauma from Maegor and his daughter hit that trauma button hard and he acted very poorly to her. I don’t think he acted too harshly until he refused to retrieve his daughter. No matter how awful she was, Jahaerys treated Saera far too harshly to the point it almost destroyed his marriage. The other children he varied between being a very good parent and an absent parent due to his nature and his responsibilities as kind. He was FAR from perfect as parent but he wasn’t a bad father in my opinion because few parents are.

@XHammer-fs5pf 7 месяцев назад

To be clear this was an amazing video and I don’t really disagree with it, I was just sharing a personal opinion. Love your work and look forward to more

@lowdog2940 Год назад

He wasn’t a bad sire, but a bad grand sire, he should have named Rhaenys his heir. It would have solved a lot of problems.

@jadeayla7548 Год назад

I personally don't believe that Daella's death was his fault, she was 18 when she gave birth. That should have been plenty grown. It is tragic though :(

@jcnom6606 6 месяцев назад

Anyone notice that all of Jaehaerys’s children could all represent a quality of his. In Saera I see Jaehaerys’s strong will, refusal to be ruled, veiled threatening nature. Sad to think she was on his mind on his deathbed, he died with regret no doubt

@samiai8905 Год назад

Hell yeah they both sucked. They kept on having kids when they should've stopped at Daella and focus on training them and the grandkids to fill up their ranks, totally neglected to even use their younger kids as political pawns. The fact they kept on going is horrifying for Alysanne, all that stress on her body and nobody counseled her to stop? Of course she died so terribly. They were great partners at ruling but holy shit, Jahaerys didn't even listen to Alysanne about Saera and Viserra, and this was AFTER DAELLA when she told him he shouldn't have married her off. They weren't on the same page and Jaehaerys didn't even try which laid the groundwork for the Dance. Like really, if he just listened and respected her as an equal (which he never did, not really) then so much would've been avoided.

@AssasiCraftYogUscus Год назад

Jahaerys' sexism is what ultimately made him a bad father. He over invested in his eldest sons, and never saw his daughters as individuals. By the time Vaegon is around he's too old to conmect with his kids.

@bedlaskybedla6361 Год назад

I noticed that Jaehaerys's behavior very changed near his fifty. I wonder what changed him. He become more like other lord of Westeros. Why he forced Gael to marriage? He was very tolerant and benevolent about his older children, didn't forced them to anything. And at 46 he suddenly snap? That's really weird. Death of Gael surely hit him hard. And then instead of learning from his mistake, he just repeat them over and over again. Maybe sadness and guilt overtook his common sense, not noticing that he make more mistakes with his other children and wife. And at his 50, they start to called him the old king. This title have two meanings if you think about it - old because he rule very long and old because he just became old (not just in age, but also in manners etc.) - this is pretty much insulting. And honestly, he became stuck at place at this time, so it is sort of fitting. I believe that this make him also really sad - they called him conciliator and now they call him old? I think none would be happy. So his mental health started to be worse and worse, his decision were worse and so on. I really like young Jaehaerys, he was really clever, bold, progressive king and loving husband and father. Really nice person. But at his later years of reign, he became just average king and terrible husband and father. It is really sad to see his downfall at the end.

@christophergirardi8145 11 месяцев назад

It's sad in a way how Jaehaerys greatest enemy was time. It wore him down.

@annavafeiadou4420 Год назад

I think he was more than any other responsible for Gael she was simple-minded and easy to be taken advantage yes she had a pre marital affair when social circumstances didn't allow it and a child which ended up stillborn but it seems like she was in more need of care and maybe of some mental disability so if her parents had given her more attention she wouldn't have had the affair and then she commited suicide which again if her parents had given her more understanding and forgiveness , love and care she wouldn't have done

@jcnom6606 6 месяцев назад

Interesting that he thought his daughter Saera had returned to him on his deathbed

@keokukramey9008 Год назад

I don’t think Jaeheracys who is a bad father it was more like he was a product of his time because remember he’s a king that set the standard for being a king and sometimes you can’t really be a good dad at the same time even if you try, plus we have to look at his other kids compared to his older ones because he had his heir and his spare and from what we read in the book most of his kids were vastly independent, and really didn’t need much parenting I mean look vaegon. The only ones that kind of needed a little bit more help was I would say daella because it’s kind of shown that she has autism but I’m pretty sure they didn’t know anything about that back in those times.

@LyricalXilence 2 года назад

None of the Targaryen's seem to be great parents. Unfortunately like with most historical men, someone who is a great King President or Leader isn't great in other aspects of their life either as a husband or a father. And fantastic individuals may raise mediocre children.

@rickkarrer8370 2 года назад

I imagine it's hard to be a good parents when you have so many children, and are also the lifelong head of a nation. That's not an excuse for them, simply a reason. It's hard enough with 1 or 2 children in modern times.

@aprilm3203 Год назад

I do think jaehaerys was to harsh on sarea I don’t think a girl sleeping around with her boy and girl friends is a bad and I don’t give 2 shits about Westeros’s dogmatic morals. But the fact sarea was an entitled daddy’s girl makes think of my own sister and then I can kinda agree with her getting punished but I think he went to far

@josiahdavistv1216 3 года назад

I don't understand how did Saera try to steal a dragon when the belongs to her so technically jeahesys stole a dragon from her a rider can only have 1 dragon and dragon 1 rider until that rider dies

@WorldOfWesteros 3 года назад

If I remember correctly she had yet to claim a dragon and the danger was she’d Steal one like Aerea. But this time the dragon would reject her and could then be stolen by someone outside our house Targaryen. It’s the same reasons why Jaehaerys was so worried when Alyssa Farman stole and sold dragon eggs to bravos. If Another power got hold of dragons would cause a bloody war

@thetalesofelbek7042 3 года назад

@@WorldOfWesteros I imagine what would happen with the city of Braavos ! lol

@LyricalXilence 2 года назад

Just because your family owns something doesn't give you free access to it. You don't just become a dragon rider, you have to claim a dragon. And as someone has already pointed out the last teenager who stole a dragon ended up dying horribly.

@josiahdavistv1216 2 года назад

@@LyricalXilence she didn't die from stealing a dragon some external source killed her

@jamesrodriguez4937 2 месяца назад

now ik why bron said pretty little ladys fall off there horses and snap there neck all the time🤣🤣

@ayiza8511 Год назад

Yea I never understood how sera could have stolen a dragon egg, is not every Targaryens right to have a egg or dragon? I mean I understand why jea and Alysanne did want her to have one but still?

@wafflingmean4477 3 месяца назад

He was a horrible father. He pushed Daella into marriage when she was too young. She died giving birth because of this. He pushed Viserra to marry despite no good match for her, causing her to get herself killed because she got wasted while riding a horse the night before leaving for her wedding. If you're that drunk, you are not okay. And Jaehaerys literally personally MURDERED Saera's boyfriend, forced her to join a convent, and didn't even slightly care when she'd effectively been made into a sex slave in the Free Cities (she eventually managed to buy her way out it seemed). I wish Saera had managed to reach Balerion in time. Her father never would've forgotten THAT lesson. Did I miss anyone?

@captainpetrson5812 Год назад

Jaeherys to the realm: 😈 Jaeherys to his kids: 😅

@redjirachi1 Год назад

ASOIAF is full of either awful (Tywin, Randyll, Seven forgive Craster) or uncaring (Walder, Roose) fathers, with the occasional awesome (Oberyn) father. So more grey-area and realistic fathers like Jaehaerys I tend to stand out

@minamaria9871 29 дней назад

The men had good lives but most of the women had horrible lives

@johnmitchell4043 Год назад

most of the targaryens were assasinated by the forces of oldtown, the hightowers,the citidel and the faith. otto hightowers daughter is very likely saera targaryens daughter...