This video has been created to help the public understand the differences between water based and oil based woodwork finishes. So they can make an informed decision on what to go for in their own homes
Thank you for sharing your hard-earned experience and know-how with us!! Excellent content and commentary on the video, including your replies in text. Truly nice work. Many thanks.
Love the oil myself, slow recoat time and dust sticking to it was only faults for me. Waterbased is OK but tends to need more coats. Video is spot on for me anyway. Good job.
if you have to go over oil based paint with water based fiinish , just undercoat it with oil based paint dulux trade or crown ...water based finish will sit on it very well after. i know its still a case of using oil on the job, but it may be a necessary transformation from existing oil to water . it will provide appropriate adhesion and coverage. Cool vid , bout Graco. was going to buy Cordless ultra max , but after your video i decided to go for larger model and go GXFF .... don't fancy paying 250£ for pump replacement every few weeks. THANKS
£71 currently I think? for the American one. I'm advising water based for a few reasons 1. quicker clean up. 2. Low odor 3. Dries Quicker. 4. Stays White. 5. Roles on flat doors really well in my opinion. Draw back Durability Durability Durability Not used the American paint due to price and customers not wanting to pay the extra but am toying with the idea for high traffic areas. Not got onto the spraying side yet as I don't do many big jobs but again its something I'd like to try. Good video it is nice to hear what others think. I'm using a lot of Crown stuff atm but open to advice & Ideas. Cheers
i would always recommend using owatrol in oils ive only just started using it myself due to being fed up with oil evaporating to fast and i don't know yet but it might even help it stay white better because your adding solvent without breaking down the paint like thinners do so you can add a lot of extra solvent which was taking out
Great video mate! Had a nightmare last couple years trying to find the “right” product for waterbased gloss, still not a massive fan of the stuff , but working in mainly residential homes we have to use it! . The product I have found to do a great job in 2 coats is zinsser all coat gloss , it’s been the best one to me so far .....but nothing beats oil based 👍
Hi David, I forgot about that one, ivectried that also..ivexalso used it both indoors and outdoors....its fantastic gear tinted..I used to use it due to its fast recoat times, but i have recently found Andura titanium which is recoatable after one hour and has slightly better opacity, deffo worth a try. Thank you for your comments 👍
Interesting video Joe, always learning from you. I would have thought oil would have yellowed quicker in sunlight not the other way around. But there you go.
Yeah it's surprising how many people get that the wrong way round. Of course paints can fade over time in sunlight, but they don't yellow. White solvent interior paints are a completely different thing.
I agree im the same tried many different waterbased paints over last few years. But i have found a handful that im happy with. You speak mainly of internal use. Exterior is just as much of a toss-up. Because also drying time becomes a big thing
i still think oil the old oil primer oil undercoat and oil gloss is the best system myself inside and out you can box the oil primer in with the oil undercoat to save a day on bare timber
Most professional decorators like oil based paint on wood. They've been trained up on it, especially old school types. But for the casual user, they might find waterbased easier to work with.
Had to re-coat a new build today and they provided water based satin. I prepped the surface and the coverage was 'alright' but I noticed a couple of times the paint came away from the surface as if I was painting onto silicone, was a nightmare. Always preferred oil with a dash of owatrol.
Yeah spray oil gloss a lot the finish you can get is amazing, however nowadays I’m finally looking at using water based because of the yellowing is a problem most of the houses I do seem to have the woodwork white or the Same colour as the walls, but most of the builders I work for specify oil based. I have seen a hybrid water based gloss that has a beautiful gloss level but it still yellows
Bin would work but it's overkill. Really there is no need for a,stain blocking primer over old gloss, just an acrylic adhesion primer like Johnstones aqua guard primer for example. It's water based and adheres very well ready for the top coats
Everyone says water based and oil based. But the first refers to the solvent used, the second refers to a medium. The solvent used with any natural oil or alkyd will be a hydrocarbon. Usually Kerosene / Paraffin.
We say water based or oil/solvent based just to simplify really. We know its a little more complicated than this, but client's don't really need to know the ins & outs of it all, so i personally just categorise the three main types for domestic work, water based(water soluble) Oil based (solvent soluble) Hybrid (water soluble, but with added solvent) Just simplifies it based on what Whites yellow, and which ones don't tbh
There are water based products out there that perform very well outside, but I would agree that generally speaking...solvent based is better externally. Regarding the adhesion....if applying water based over old oil, the surface needs much more preperation for it to adhere...a,water based system on new work should be long lasting. Its mostly down to the preperation on any oainting project. Thank you for your comment , take care, Joe
i wouldnt bother with jono's aqua gloss again stored in my shed i noticed it yellowed faster than dulux high gloss white not PBW it took roughly 2 years for dulux gloss to go proper yellow jono's took around year half i noticed jono's oil paints even the eggshell goes yellow in constant darkness in 2-3 months like proper maggie.the crown next gen gloss yellowed quicker than dulux the crown didnt go proper mag but defo off white on the side of tin in constant darkness witch i found strange dont know if dulux have improved the formula further.
Yes the johnos aqua gloss will do mate, as it's a hybrid. Hmg gloss and isomat gloss are the only ones I can think of that are water based.....and I use johnos Aqua guard satinwood most of the time now...its awesome gear 👌
I stay well away from oil based now if I can help it....started using scuff x but its too expensive, and then johnos brought out Aqua guard....so ever since I've used that...its surprisingly tough ....I just needed to get my head around applying a 3 x coat system over old oil based....now I have I'm fully converted. Tbh....99% of my client base prefer water based anyway.
i priced up a interior and exterior job yestaday same house it was oil woodstain on woodwork previously on interior and oil gloss on exterior guy said he had firm come in and do it and said they used self priming system didnt know which and it was chipping of to easily on the interior and the exterior was worst i'd every seen it flaking so badly after just over a year that when the wind blew hard enough it blow the flaking paint of the windows but it was probably he fault cause he was a bit of a tight git nothing you can do sometimes if the budget doesn't allow you to do things properly
I am second to him! 100% accurate facts. I have been struggling with a 70y huge window portal for 3 weeks, I stripped the old paint by heat gun and sanded 10 times...with p40 up to p150, applied Milesi water based impregnating filler primer, 2x primer, 3x top coat and it looks terrible, horror! I used mohair roller than foam roller than sNtetic premium brush than tried expensive fine white Talkun nylon art brushes but the result is horrific brush or roller marks! I diluted the pain finally by water (10% than 20%) bit no change ugly disgusting horror results! Than over days I did restarted sanded everything off by Makita 40 grit up to p240 and applied another Trilak water based primer and the finest German Sigma water based polyurethane acryl top coat and added 15% Floretol conditioner but still the finish is microscopic size (very finely textured) orange peel, non smooth surface! ☠️😭 water based is only for professional high pressure spraying! No joke. Oh and it chips off very easily by weak hits
Generally speaking... The flatter the finish, the rougher it is under a microscope. Waterbased equivalent gloss cannot produce the same level of sheen due to it's quick drying times.... This goes for satin and eggshell too.... I think we just have to accept that the days of super smooth oil based finishes, are over due to the regulations. I always explain the pros and cons of both finishes to my clients, explaining that water based simply won't have the same smoothness due to it's drying times.... But currently... 99% of my clients are choosing water based in brilliant white because it will not yellow over time. They see this as being more important than the overall feeling to the touch. If they choose a colour, it's generally oil based because it will require less, coats.
Great video. Really good advice Have you tried zinsser allcoat exterior solvent and/or water based? I’m keen to find the best paint for exterior wood window frames. These paints are all in primer and top coat. I will sand what I can and be painting over old paint. Not sure if the old paint is oil or water based. Thanks in advance.
@@JoeProDecor great thanks! Good reviews on the water based version. It comes in two varieties - 8 year guarantee and 15 year guarantee. Gonna test a smaller tin out of the 15.
What if you put some blue in it, just a little? I’m thinking of how women rinse their hair with blue to offset any brassy color caused by bleaching. And to keep white clothes white you put blueing in the laundry water. Or maybe some green, or purple.
It’s not water base it’s Waterbourne and as synthetic resins pigment and solvents - mix with water and are just as tough as oil paint. I don’t see the problem I’ve never had to do more than 2 coats on oil based paint and if prepared right is really tough. How many times have I been to a job where old oil paint as been chipped and in poor condition. The thing when painting with oil paints is the drying time - it takes hours and day’s to cure if dust is still in the air which there normally is after sanding it settles on your paint especially windowsills
Hi Derek, you have made some good points tbf. Regarding the 2 coats, I used to say the same thing....but when compared to oil, there really is no comparison . 2 coats of oil is generally more solid after 2 coats in my experience. Water based also needs time to cure, often longer than oil based.... and I have tested alot of these for durability. I use virtually dust free sanding and dont suffer with airborne dust on site so that's not an issue for me. There are pros and cons to both, and we all have different opinions on what we prefer to use. Your point about oil based paints chipping is really interesting, and this is usually down to oil based paint being less flexible than water based/water borne paints ...so you could call that a negative...its all up for debate 👍 thank you for your comment
The term water based/waterborne are the same thing tbh.....paint is made up of pigment , binder and thinner....with the addition of various additives depending on finish.....the thinner in water based is water, the thinner used in oil based is oil.....the thinner is the part of the paint that allows the paint to be applied smoothly, and it's the part of the paint that evaporates to leave the remaining binders and pigments......but I really dont intend to get to technical on these video's as I am aiming this at the client/customer so they can then make a more informed decision.
JoeProDecor hi joe your right it also takes time to cure. I use mirka sanders I have just about every one of them - this is going to be interesting on where painter stand on this
JoeProDecor painter and decorator never agree on anything - from how to hold a brush to what is the best brush to use you name we all have our own different ways 😂🤣😂
Tried water based, And it took me five coats over a yellow door, sanded it to key aswel. Then i had many other doors to do.. Is water based self undercoating?
There is a vast difference between different brands of wster based coatings so it depends what you buy. 5 coats sounds like a not so good water based paint as the ones I use cover in 2 or 3 coats. I recommend that you only look at good quality trade brands with water based . I use johnstones aqua guard, or Benjamin Moore scuff x for my clients. Benjamin moore scuff x is self priming and undercoating, and Johnstones aqua can be applied straight on if the surface is well sanded and de-glossed before applying. Cheers, Joe
@@JoeProDecor It was dulux quick dry gloss. I changed back to oil base one coat. Worked like a treat as always. I thought maybe it's because i didn't prime the doors with a water based primer? As the oil based does it in one and that's what i'm used to.
@@NoneOfYourBusiness961 dulux quick dry range isn't up there with the best really, but whenever using gloss, it does need an undercoat just like oil would need an undercoat. Water based gloss, just like oil based gloss won't cover as,well as satin, as satin won't cover as,well as eggshell.....and water based products already dont generally cover as,well as oil. You can't beat the opacity of oil with any water based products tbh.....but I'd say the top end one's come alot closer. If im going over old yellowed oil.....I sand the surface back to the whiter undercoat so I'm not struggling with the water based system...it just needs more preperation.
crown trade next gen gloss is as good as the old stuff in terms of yellowing also it's like a semi gloss rather than high gloss also heard jono's ultra gloss staying white better than others also. I wouldn't even consider water based for woodwork or metal work.
Hi Jack, am I right in thinking the crown next gen isn't brilliant white? I've heard it is an off white? Or a dull white I do want to try the johnos ultra gloss to be honest....do they do a satin ?
I use next gen all the time , i find it goes on with a slightly greenish tint but dries out white , goes on a treat with a bit of owatrol in it . Good stuff.👍
Eggshell is generally of sheen level between 10-20, and satinwood is around 30-40.....they can all vary between manufacturers, but they are a rough guide. As a comparison, gloss is usually around 80-90 sheen level.....so I would say that there is a noticable difference aesthetically, and generally the more sheen, the better wipeability. Diamond eggshell is basically Dulux trade version of an acrylic eggshell, and I'm pretty sure that dulux do tend to make their products on the higher side of sheen level to make them a little more durable compared to others that are not quite as shiny.
palatine paints are the only good oil based left on market in terms of application and holding their white and the only company that still sells matt oil that can be tinted which is great for walls gives much better finish than modern emulsions
Thanks for the video, it's quite too long but it's fine. Hey after putting oil based primer on the wooden frames should I lightly sand it with 200 ?? or just go over the oil base primer next day with oil base paint.
need to remember the only reason water based gloss satin is around is because of restrictions so it's never going to be as good if it was they would have just brought out instead of being forced to bring it out.
It's possible, but not ideal, unless of course it is zinsser coverstain, or zinsser bin? One is oil based and the other methylated spirit based and both formulated to be coated over by either oil or water based. It's best practice to use a water based adhesion promoting primer over old oil based before applying a, water based gloss unless your intention is to also block stains, which is, when you would use coverstain or bin.
I am using Zinsser Bulls eye over my kitchen wall tiles and need to know if I should use Oil based EGGSHELL or Acryllic EGGSHELL as a top coat. The company I am thinking of using are Zoffany (which isn't cheap) but I am happy to pay the price. The kitchen area gets good lighting. Any idea?
Hi Jack, I would never advise people to paint tiles if im honest, in fact I usually try and talk them out of doing it. Tiles are a very difficult substrate to get anything to adhere properly, especially in a kitchen where there is moisture, constant temperature changes, and the added chance of splashes and spillages.....the bullseye will go on and dry, but if any part of gets knocked or damaged due to moisture....as,soon as the seal is broke, it will all start to fail quickly ...ive seen it so many times in clients houses when they have done it themselves. I would recommend oil based ontop for the best possible results, but its the adhesion thats the issue with voices, the oaint just dries like an eggshell around it and when the seal breaks , it soon gets worse. The best of luck with it 👍
@@JoeProDecor Thanks for the response. I'm not too bothered to be honest. I only cook about 2 or 3 times a week and always use the exttractor but thanks for your advice.
@@JoeProDecor Hi, just to let you know that I have completed the paint job in my kitchen on the tiles and they look amazing. After using the Zinsser Bulls Eye, I decided to use oil based Eggshell as the top coat. Admittedly it was hard work as the paint is quick thick but I have had no issues whatsoever,No scratching off at all. Very happy.
@@TheJackierose1 hi Jack, thats great to hear. I hope you get long lasting results. Painting tiles is not something I recommend, but I hope you get long lasting results Cheers, Joe
@@JoeProDecor Thanks Joe. It's actually Jacqui but hey, how would you know that lol. So far so good. Have actually been trying to scratch it off but it seems unmoveable at the moment!!
got to disagree mate regards finish and amount of coats. I've been totally waterbased for a good few years now. I don't give my clients a choice either. I think you are using poor quality british made paints. Give Benjamin Moore paints a go pal, you won't go anywhere near oil after using their stuff.
Hi Gareth, I did mention bm scuff x on the video as I have used it and been impressed with it....but the price for that gear is an issue with a large amount of my client's I've tried pretty much all of the water based and hybrid paints
List of water based/hybrids I've tried and tested:- Johnstones aqua Dulux qd Armstead qd Dulux diamond satin Caparol pu satin Tikkurila helmi Hmg qd Bm scuff x Isolac isomat Mythic black label Andura titanium Bedec Crown fastflow The one from brewers
@@JoeProDecor Sorry Joe , didn't watch you video all the way through. I know your issue regards cost but when you use it all the time you discover that the stuff goes for miles. When you weigh up time saved in drying time, spread rates and saving on not buying separate primer/ undercoat and finish coats you really are not adding a lot to prices. The durability, drying times, the fact it stops white my customers don't mind paying a touch extra. It may well be my client Base but I really do a good sell because I can trust the products.
@blizzardxc12 I think of it the other way mate, the call backs from same customer and there family and friends because it still looks great instead of being yellow before the cheque has cleared!
palatine msp oil based satin and gloss best on the market all i use now interior and exterior its a pre 2010 paint cause there a very small manufacturer they didn't have to change their formulas so no early yellowing and very hardwearing no having to burn off paint on interiors which is ridiculous if you ask me shouldn't happen
crown next gen oil gloss stayed white for around 2 years in places with next to no uv light and on rads and 5-6 years in other places and sills are still white stay well clear off jonos oil gloss did a hallway and landing in it and yellowed in a month
Hardly use oil at all now Jack. Mostly Johnstones Aqua guard, and sometimes bm scuff x or advance. I have give in to a 3 coat system using caparol haftprimer as my adhesion primer over old oil, and must say both products are fantastic with a, 3 coat system, but my preference is the Aqua guard due to its brighter white look durability (which is excellent), and it's fair price. At the time of doing this video I was a little concerned about having to do a 3 coat system with water based over old oil, but I have found that most clients are happy to pay for the extra labour for a solid, durable finish that stays white, without having the harmful toxins to breathe in.
The other thing is... Regarding oil based paints... I know next gen doesn't yellow as much, but its difficult to see how much an oil has yellowed sometimes unless you put a, white object next to it. When I visit a potential client to give a, quote, I always gauge the colour of the woodwork with samples of water based finishes, and I can usually tell whether its a water based finish, an oil finish, or a hybrid finish based on the time its been on, and how much its discoloured. I visited one yesterday and guessed the paint the decorator had used years before which was johnos, aqua gloss. It had yellowed a little, but not as much as oil would... I discounted bm advance because it was available then, neither was tecknos futura, or Crown fast flow... So I guessed it would be the johnos... He got the tin from the garage and there it was... Johnos aqua gloss 😂 I love playing those games with my clients, hence I got the job.
@@JoeProDecor yeah find good water based paints are to expensive or more than the most people want to pay for paint and dont see the point when we still got paints like crown next gen and palatine glosses. crown next undercoat and next gloss is around £70 in kent blaxil for 5l without a account and palatine primer undercoat and gloss 5l is around £100 . primers the crown px souped up alkali resisting primer is really good.
Great video. I have decided to paint my staircase in eggshell black. I have sanded back the previous water base paint that was painted on it and just wanted to know if i should prime the it first? Its not down to bare wood but the previous water base has gone
Hi, yes if you have sanded back to old oil based, then it will require an adhesion primer before applying your water based top coats...unless you are applying an oil based eggshell? Oil based eggshell can go straight over without a primer. Thanks, Joe
The Johnstones Aqua guard is my current goto system for woodwork 👌 I am very happy with the results, and once fully cured it is as tough as bm scuff x in my opinion.
@@JoeProDecor it is great stuff to use. I'm using it on my new builds. Ive used it once on a privet job Was told by johnstone you can use it on oil if prepped and cleaned property. I'm not convinced though. Grip primer needed i belive .I'm thinking zinsser 123 to go over oil first. What's your choice with aqua guard. Cheers
@@richardloze5994 I use either haftprimer or Johnstones Aqua undercoat over oil for best results. I've tried it without a primer and it does adhere fine, but job's mostly need three coats to be solid so applying a primer makes, sense... Plus using a primer is likely to have longer lasting results. I am currently using the haftprimer over the undercoat simply because haftprimer apies a little easier imo... Never get runs
Do you intend to lay off with a brush? If so I currently use progold medium pile for anything being layed off.... If leaving a roller finish, I use staalmiester sleeves from Mypaintbrush.Co.Uk Others I've used recently are fussy bloke sleeves, but I am currently mainly back on waterbased since I tried Johnstones Aqua Guard for the first time 👌
@@JoeProDecor Hi Joe... You have got Me abit worried regarding yellowing of Brilliant white satinwood oil based ... Used Leyland Trade oil satinwood ... Will it yellow or have things improved slightly ?
@@pwjwalton All white Oil based will yellow over time, and they are not going to improve the formulas on oil based due to the fact they are removing the toxic contents from the paints. Leyland trade is likely to yellow faster than say Johnstones trade or Dulux trade too. The only way you will keep a brilliant white finish, is if you use a water based system. There are some paints out there that are hybrids, which are prodominently water based but do have a little solvent in them, like crown fast flow, Johnstones Aqua range(not aqua guard), Benjamin Moore advance to name a few... These, will still yellow, but it will take longer and not as much. Johnstones Aqua guard which I now use is fully water based, and I apply a coat of caparol haftprimer as a bridge primer over old oil based, then two coats of aqua guard satinwood
Can u make a video on how to clean both paint finishes, oil based and water based.. I painted my stair case with water based but some parts feel little sticky when I try to clean hand marks with a damp cloth. Can you please explain which finish is best in terms of cleaning?
Hi there, some cheaper water based satins and glosses unfortunately re tack in humid conditions. I've had this with armstead qd for example. This can also be caused by insufficient preperation of the pill based surface. Clean water based with a warm damp cloth with no more than a little washing up liquid. Oil based the same
anyone thinking about going into painting and decorating don't it's a dying industry and especially going self employed it's not as high class as it used to be it's being taken over by the diy market not enough customers willing to pay for a high class job anymore the only way to make a decent living is to get a cscs card and go on big sites and do average work as quick as you can.
