Water Methanol Injection - More Boost! 

I love how clear these videos are. You talk fast, correctly, you get to the point and I always get everything on the first viewing. Thank you for your videos, glad I found them.

OMG YOU ACTUALLY DID A VIDEO!!!!! I REMEMBER ASKING YOU THIS QUESTION LOL THANKS !

Thanks for the quick to the point explanation on this rather “obscure” subject. It reminds me of Kurt Tank’s design, the TA-152H high altitude fighter back in WW II. It used a Jumo 213E engine (inverted V-12 liquid-cooled engine) using a MW-50 boost up to 33,000 feet altitude, and could climb to over 44,000 feet using the nitrous oxide boost, achieving almost 470 miles an hour at that altitude. Please, keep those videos rolling!!!

Whenever I have questions on how to make more power, I look through your videos first. Been doing it for years!

Best and favorite mod on my 350z. Was 394whp before at 9.5psi, now I'm over 440 with a 100% Meth Mixture and 5-6 degrees more timing with the same amount of boost and no knock.

He has developed so much since his first episodes, I think its great.

This is so well made and easily explained that I honestly don't know what to say, good work.

Just saw an F-85 Jetfire at the San Diego Automotive museum, which has a bunch of awesome (and massive) postwar cars right now. The display said that the Jetfire's turbo system was very ahead of its time and really error-prone - partially because people didn't keep the "rocket fluid" topped up, which caused detonation problems. They recalled all of them.

Back in the 1980s, I drove a 1964 Pontiac with a 10.5:1 compression ratio 389 V8 engine that was supposed to have 100 octane gas. We installed a water injection unit to allow it to run properly on lower octane unleaded gas. It worked well.

I built and installed 3 different water injection systems on my dad's 75' Olds Cutlass back in 1980. They worked but I was constantly refilling them which is one of a dozen reasons why they won't put it on a production vehicle. If they did put them into production they could eliminate EGR and keep the intake system cleaner. And actually the first reason alcohol is added is to prevent the water from freezing in winter - the additional reasons are the indirect benefits of alcohol (octane boost, etc...).

I love these videos:) correct clear speech along with clear to the point explanations make for easy to learn material. I always learn a lot. Thanks!

This was on my recommended..I have been using wmi for a while now. It helps both na and boosted. For both of them it "cleans" up the timing curve and allowed for less drastic timing pull when things get hot. Also in the turbo car it's great being able to do back to back runs without heat soaking. I enjoy seeing boost Temps pretty much at ambient at 20psi even after multiple runs. (Car has a decent size intercooler and wmi right after)

Aircraft engines used this in 1930s. Pratt Whitney wasp radial 18cyl.

I have a direct injection engine(N54), and I am looking to get water meth to help keep intake ports clean, as well as the performance benefits. Great video!

I love meth injections. Keeps your AITs and EGTs low while steam cleaning your intake, TB and intake valves. Win/win

Thanks for the informative video! Just one thing you did not really mention - methanol injection system also cools down the temperature of exhaust gases, which is quite important for some folks, such as drifters. Some of them claim that methanol system lowers their exhaust gases by up to 100 degrees Celsius... Anyway, thanks one more time! Keep videos coming!

You talked about the water displacing some of the air, which is true, but according to Gale Banks, when the air is fully saturated, meaning that water cannot effectively evaporate anymore, the volume of air the water displaces is only about 4%. And that's if the charge air is fully saturated, which is unlikely with a properly sized injection nozzle. Basically, yes it does happen, but the displacement you mentioned is not really worth calculating for when it comes to tuning. Gale Banks had a really good discussion about this in +TheSmokingTire podcast a while back (Episode 86 I think) that I think is worth a listen. BTW, love the videos. I've learned a lot watching them and look forward to more

Thanks!! I was really looking forward you making this video! I'm glad you answered my request!

I really hope he does a video on a 6-stroke engine design. That might be the future of ICE engines as a 4 stroke is quickly reaching the maximum efficiency you can get out of it.

I run a Cooling Mist system on my Mazdaspeed 3, boost switch activated to spray 100% methanol starting at 15psi. For my platform, it's great to keep the intake valves clean since we're direct injected and get no fuel wash in the intake otherwise. I already run an ethanol blend in tank too, so the cylinder cooling and higher functional octane of the ethanol is already in place. With the methanol on top of it, my EGTs are likely hundreds of degrees cooler than normal, and I'm able to run a very aggressive tune in terms of timing quite safely. Steam cleaning the combustion chamber when I run a 50/50 WMI mix is also a nice added benefit!

Thank you for being very clear in explaining how this system works.

Hi Jason, First up I just wanna thank you for the time you've taken to do all your videos.. They're really informative. I had a "brainwave" - which I think others have had before... Nevertheless I needed an Expert in Physics and Engineering to give me an opinion and I could think of none other than you... So here goes: I recently contemplated the use of water meth in a turbo car. The basic reason of using 50/50 water meth is to reduce knock, increase boost and possibly reduce fuel consumption while giving the car 'race gas'... I understand that it's not all that simple and that tuning is required. However the principle is that it cools down the air by absorbing the heat energy from the surrounding air - hence creating a denser charge. Which also means that if you put in "cooler" 50/50 water meth versus a "warmer" water meth spray you'd get a better result right? So what i'm trying to say is that the water meth would be somewhat dependent on the external temperature and thus the problem if you're living in a hot climate which i'm living in.. (I live in Singapore where it's always 80-100+F) This got me thinking - "What if I could cool down my water meth MORE?" So instead of spraying in 85-90F Water meth, what if i spray 32F (0 degrees celcius). I understand that water meth freezes at a really low point. (correct me if i'm wrong.) What would the effect be on the car? - i.e in terms of Torque, Cooling(i'm guessing that's obvious but I would still like to know), and horsepower. Would there be a TREMENDOUS improvement is my question?? coz i got a rather "fruity idea" of how to do just that... Also.. How low should the temperature go - as in what would be the sweet spot(without any damage to the car)?? I guess that's all I want to know(not an expert like yourself). Could you tell me if you need to know anything else etc. Also if the gains are so minimal that it's pointless (hopefully you could explain why as well if that's the case) Thanks for taking the time to read this e-mail. Hope you could get back to me at your soonest possible convenience. Best Regards, Mark.

I know the Germans used this in WW2 on their fighter aircraft and could increase the engine power by nearly 500hp

Interesting subject. I didn't even know this existed before I watched this video.

Just an observation: Point 4 on your whiteboard should read "Cold air is MORE dense," not less. Great vid, though! ;-)

I'm running this on a 2.2l diesel motor, 4gph of nozzles. 1gph pre turbo 3gph post intercooler but running on a mix of isopropyl alcohol rather than meth and the systems controled by an arduino reading maf flow and the app sensor (pedal sensor). The setup gives it quite an extra bump in power and much better pickup after changing gears.

An additional benefit of the cooling property of water is that it will reduce exhaust gas temperatures significantly, allowing you to run a leaner air to fuel mixture, increasing fuel economy (I think the cooling effect of the water would cancel out the increased power from a lean, high temperature air to fuel mixture but I'm not 100% sure)

Reports on this tech in the 90s suggested everybody could have this in their cars by now... apparently not!

Another great video. More of these tutorials like you used to please.

The RU-vid video at 'PowerTec 10, episode 95' covers a lot of the more obscure aspects on how to optimize water/methanol injection that as far as is known are not covered on any other RU-vid presentation on this subject. New knowledge here for sure!

i heard an explanation of this earlier but it was a bit different. besides the cooling factor of the water when its injected it mostly stays liquid and when it's in the combination chambe it serves as a "cumbustion enhancer". so when the fuel air mix fires there is gonna be a lot of excess heat and the water takes that energy to turn into vapor. and because it expands so much when doing that (by factor 1600 i belive) it uses the excess heat gives you more power by giving you more tourge

One thing that is also noticed by people, just how much less fuel the engines use when spraying. Truly remarkable milage can be achieved.

i use this on a super charge 5.3 in my truck with no intercooler, works great!

In the case of the 1962 Olds with 10.25 CR and Turbo, 106 octane was readily available at the pump during that era.

Great videos mate. I learn so much.

Anytime I wonder how so etching works I hope you have the video for it there could be 10,000 different ones but I look for yours because of how clearly you explain it

I learn so much from your page. Thank you!

Interesting video, as always. Have you ever considered to make a video on 'basic electronics'. Like bias voltage, voltage drop, why sensors use a 5v reference circuit.... Would be interesting. Grtz from Belgium.

I love the name TURBO ROCKET FLUID!!

can you please do a video explaining panhard bars, watts linkage, mumford linkage, and other examples of solid axle centering devices?

Most people put the water injection before the intake side blow-off valve to keep full pressure while having denser air. If the blow-off valve is before it, then you could potentially lose usable air.

You can in fact inject water before the Intercooler as I do very successfully. But this is a different method known as pre turbo mechanical water injection. Much less parts to fail, little adjustment needed and turbo sucks in as much as it needs once flow has been adjusted to optimum levels at nozzle.

Can you do a full information vid of all benefits and what not and how it works and what not for a turbo charged Diesel engine please? Really like these systems and had one on my old NA engine and now it's turboed I'm going to be putting one on that again. Would like a full informed video at some point if you could please. Cheers

Why wouldn't you inject it before the intercooler, seems that it would work far more efficiently?

I know it’s been years but I wanted to ask you as you give concise answers with proof. Are there any disadvantages to inject WM mixture after the throttle body in turbo powered engines? Wouldn’t that be better as it would eliminate the mixture from accumulating when the TB is shut instantly? Thank you

bmw m4 gts has water injection out of the box! not meth though but you can always dump that in! love your vids.

Hi. Love your videos. Would this be beneficial for GDI engines for keeping the intake valves clean ? Would love to hear your take on this! -Chris

Can I use Denatured Alcohol that was denatured by Methyl Ethyl Ketone instead of Methanol? It contains 1% Methyl Ethyl Ketone by weight, but I would also be mixing is with water at a 50/50 ratio. Is Methyl Ethyl Ketone bad for the engine?

I always thought that the methanol was added as a cheap anti freeze when used in draw thru turbo setups: to stop the water from crystalising before it hits the turbo, and eroding the compressor. I have run water/meth in one of my cars for over 15 years and found that unless you want to run stoopid boost, it is a pain in the arse. I found you want it to kick in a little early (say 20 psi so you can run maybe 35 psi of boost)to prevent detonation and say the motor will handle 25 psi boost (without water/meth). I found that unless you are using a recirculating high pressure system with appropriate jets controlled by a good electronic boost controller. I found that when the water/meth kicked in it killed the power unless I was at wide open throttle (trying to prove somthing).

I use water meth injection on my 02 trd supercharged 4Runner. Great stuff for boosted cars.

Great video, I’m a metro pilot and we use water methanol for take offs on hot summer days. I am also using a 50/50 water/meth injection on my DIT WRX. I am concerned with the oil possibility of the oil diluting, is this a valid concern? Thank you

Brilliant explanation.

For the Fiat 500 Abarth the company cravenspeed makes a throttle body spacer to be used in conjunction with a water meth kit, but the placement of the injector is just AFTER the throttle body. With the proper tune is this a safe setup? Also I'm running 27psi on a Garrett 1446, I'm assuming that would have to be dialed back a little... 😄 Love your videos, very informative 👍🏻

I know this subject probably has been covered by other people. But im asking this simply because i like the way you explain stuff. Water Methanol injection in a naturally aspirated engine? How does it work, will there be gains? Thank you.

your videos are very informative... finally subscribed :D...

Keeps the engine from turning into a high speed milling machine/blow torch combination.

The SAAB 99 Turbo did this with washer fluid. Probably not a 50/50 mixture but water and alcohol for sure.

I have a scat pack NA 392 and snow stage 3 and noticed intake temps LOWER than outside air at times...I also notice more power at full throttle

Water also expands to about 1600x its amount when turning from liquid to gas, so this helps to add power by causing more downwards force on the piston. It therefore increases the thermal efficiency of the engine because it's converting the heat into physical expansion of a gas (liquid to gas).

another great vid! When are you gonna make that vid about different sized sequential turbos?

great video, but i have one doubt , as water is in entering into the cylinder, doesn't it create problem for combustion i mean 50;50 is considerable quantity of water in mixture, also can water be removed from mixture by using eliminator which only restrict the flow of water into the cylinder

This is one of those performance parts that have only costs for a disadvantage (ex. BMC air filter). It raises the power, runs a more efficient setup on the engine, but I have a question, okay maybe two. Is that only for turbo charged engines, can it work on NA V6s and V8s? The second one, if you actually give me the guarantee, if I do this, I have to put a tune right? What I want to do is an idea hopefully waiting to happen. You see I have a 2007 W211 E63 AMG, but want to sell it because it is not for me (my personality - don't get me wrong I love V8s and massive power and wheel spins - I want a car I can track day, use every single day, hours on end) my plan is, get a 370Z (used, manual) and do those things, you see, the first question comes to play here, if it is not as efficient as putting this methanol-water way, then I'll start saving for a single turbo setup that goes to both intake manifolds, and I need all the help I could get, could you help me please? Sorry for long post, but I'm not a troll, a hater, a disliker, all the opposites, and consider myself a friend, not only a fan, thank you if you'll respond

water gets converted into air in the cylinder so it's compressible. But because it doesn't contains combustibles, the air fuel ratio is now lowered, thus you loses some power. So you add methanol to aid in the combustion, which increases the air fuel ratio ( since methanol is a fuel, ) along side with fuel ( petrol ) and air ( which is well, water )

will methanol and air mixture give about the same output in the combustion that Gasoline, NOS and air mixture will give or isn't it comparable at all (using the same type of engine) ?

Can you turn off that system if you know you can't refill the tanks/ What would happen if you do not fill the tank? Does the system shut-down by himself? Could this cause any damage to the engine since the octane level drops (knock,etc...)?

Hi, first of all many many thanks because you are so clear explaining everything! This video about the cooling effect of liquid Methanol/water is very interesting. There is a balance between two different effects, however: they lower the temperature of the air/fuel so more fuel can be burnt increasing power. But water/methanol vapours contain very little energy so they do not afford power...

I have a question! I've heard running a water methanol injection setup on a turbo diesel engine can result in pretty bad corrosion issues. Is this true?

this was absolutely perfect

So why don't more cars use it? I suppose it only makes sense in track cars right?

I have a question regarding the pressure and volume content , as the mixture is injected into the pipe before injector the are more chances of increase in volume and pressure in that particular area , as we know after the work of turbo charger the air is pushed into the injector where it adjusts the amount of air to be sent . increase of pressure in that area can be dangerous .

Does running a larger aftermarket intercooler and water meth have a"significant" benefit, or is it redundant? I'm wondering because I hanger a intercooler on the way, and everyone composites the two, but no one had shown them together-that I have found anyway...👍🏼 Running a 2015 F150 3.5 Eco.

What about 100% water injection? One of my friends used to run it on his old XF Falcon back in the 90ies.

Holy hell, we can FINALLY see how many replies are on a comment and up vote or down vote from the mobile app. About time!

How is it possible that the water cools the air goin into the engine, the water that is sprayed in and vaporized (heated) goes into the engine too. Or is it important that only the air, not the whole gas mixture, is cooled?

I have a mere Ford Focus SE and I want to add horsepower, is it possible for me to methane inject it? Or should I just look into a forced induction system?

Great video, I have been studying these systems since it's conception in 1944, it was the German fighter plane Focke-Wulf Ta 152 H that had both NOS & MW forced induction! (not a new idea).My question is this: please explain about another forced induction called Hydrogen injected the same way & generated in the car by electrolysis,seems the same idea but using a different type of charging media?

What are you're thoughts on this compared to e85 ? i have very limited availability of e85. i like the idea of using a meth injection type of kit where i know i can just carry a gallon jug in the car and fill up any where i need aswell as windshield wipers fluid is primarily water and methanol every gas station has it. my thing is i dont feel like having to travel long distance to go to the ONE gas station that has e85 and byond that station its hours and hours in between stations.

Is this water methanol injection safe for Commonrail Diesel Turbo Egine ?

have you done a video on water air intercoolers? I think some people would find it interesting. myself I just want to know what you think about it vs air to air cooling

Fenske, you've done it again! (Y)

So this is only possible because the cooling effects of water's heat of vaporization offers more benefit than the vapor pressure of water vapor takes away? How would the effects change if it was 100% methanol? 100% water?

I have been trying to find an engineer answer for how WMI benefits a diesel engine, as opposed to a gas engine.

How often does the system spray?? Just at full boost? Or linear with RPM? And if ur engine is tuned to meth injection, and you run out of juice.. can u still drive it?

I think that the new M4 GTS concept has this. I was wondering what it meant by water injection, now I know

Best part about diesel: You can just straight up run as much boost as your internals can handle.

Can you discuss propane injection also?

BMW S55 is getting water/meth injection on the GTS model btw ;)

So what type of water would you use? The same when doing a coolant flush? Distilled water only?

what if air sorrounding is saturated with a lot of moisture already? Definitely you could spray water aswell cause as the air is hotter you would move far away from saturated point. But wouldnt it be dangerous?

is there a downfall when using this method, like eating too much fuel, major issues on the piston, injectors, overheat of the motor?

Is there a temp below where it wont vaporize? Or does it always vaporize at some.point leading up to the combustion chamber. I'm asking cause my pressure is 20psi and spraying air temp maxes at 10 above ambient. So on a 70 day it gets to say 80. Does it still vaporize?

would it be worth ruining a meth injection kit on a naturally aspirated engine? Or is there not enough power gain compared to cost of the kit?

I have a question. I've heard using water/methanol injection on a diesel can cause corrosion in the bores. Have you heard anything like that?

how much long time needed to inject water-methanol? is it same as the fuel injection timing or the fuel injection timing divided by 2 if i use same injector size as the fuel use?

Turbo rally cars used a pre-mixed 102 octane fuel, with methanol. Without the use of water. Would this work to just cool the air inside the cylinder.

The mixture also adds to mass flow. More mass flow = More power.

Hey Jason can you do a video on how the vortex generator on roof works ?

just out of curiosity if you added an additional injection port pre inter cooler or pre turbo (I know you said not to) would that help counter act heat soak?

How does this effect a turbo diesel? Unlike a petrol it requires 'knock' so is the raises octane rating a good thing?

Question here 1- I’m using 100% meth with no water. Is there gonna be a problem. 2- Should I use Purified water or just tap water? Someone told me not to use Tap water because normal tapwater causes clogging and the lines.