I can tell from personal experience, I've been using a 40% split column staggered keyboard, the Corne-ish Zen, an MX Ergo trackball mouse and a standing desk with a walking pad, I have been using the keyboard and mice for almost a year and the standing desk an walking pad for about 4 months. I no longer have pain at the end of a 9 hour work day, I'm a UI/UX designer, I used to get neck, shoulder and back pain, I don't get any pain anymore if I spend most of the time standing or walking, I still get a little bit of shoulder pain If I sit down for too long. One thing I did before buying any ergonomic accessories that also helped quite a bit a was learning how to properly touch type. Not looking down at my keyboard helped quite a bit with my neck issues, that's essentially free you just have to spend some time practicing how to type. In my particular case I'm a cyclist and I've been involved in several accidents that left me hospitalized and wheelchair bound for a while so my body has been thru a lot, so if you're in good shape with no pre existing conditions you may not feel the need for ergonomic peripherals yet, but it's better to be safe than sorry.
The problem is that the options are limited. Staggered keyboards are not ergonomic, even if they write "ergonomic" on the box. They might suck less than traditional ones, but being non-staggered is a very important part in eliminating weird cross-finger operation. Just think of WASD and how your middle finger has to bend the wrong way when you are trying to press W. Once you are on something like the Ergodox, or even better: the Kinesis Advantage, you don't even need a number pad as your fingers are naturally over 1234 and 7890 with 5 and 6 un-mistakenly being a little more in. On a normal keyboard people need numpads as it is a pain to reliably type numbers fast. (OK, probably it is possible ... but still ..)
@@denesk2794 I just googled the Kineses Advantage and it looks pretty cool! I feel like it would take the rest of my life to get the muscle memory for that layout though :D
This is why it's so important for devices to have a firmware restore / way to unbrick. People can and will unplug devices during firmware updates; not even necessarily intentionally like in this video, maybe an accident happens and the cable gets unplugged. That alone gets a kudos from me, well done UGL/UHK team.
this is why they should design stuff that it initially copies image before updating, then verifies and then flashes my fuckin chinese controller for 40$ can do it but shiny 400$ keyboard (considering addons) cannot
@@konstantin90s having on-board backup flash that it can restore from if anything goes wrong would absolutely be ideal, but any recourse is appreciated
It's really very good. I've brick it several times just because I'm so stupid that instead of connect it directly to my PC, it's connected to the KVM when I flash the new firmware. And every time it's back to normal after I follow the instruction from their website. I'm pretty happy with this keyboard, and the Agent software with macro support is really awesome.
10:10 The logic with layering/chording is that you reach less distance to keys, which means you're less likely to move your arms to awkward positions to hit far away keys, and enforces better typing posture. Though a nice compromise is a smaller keyboard with a macropad/numpad
@@sebastianstierstorfer4651 I absolutely love my Corne-ish Zen, it's the same physical layout as the corne, I find it very convenient for daily use, but I used to daily drive a Gherkin so the Corne seem very big.
So, RSI : REPETITIVE injury, right? I don't get how occasionally moving your hand further (F row, mouse, etc) is bad. you're make LESS repetitive movements. ??! Am I missing something?
@@trbdann2 It's not the individual movement that's repetitive, but that fact your hand is doing lots of similar movements (such as reaching to different keys). Everytime you reach, you extend. More extend = more strain. More strain means the sooner RSI may occur Hope that makes sense
I've had mine for about a year and overall really like it. I've got plans to be typing a lot more coming up, and excited to see about that. I mostly game with it and love how I can scoot the right piece above the left for MAXIMUM mouse/desk space.
@@oxonomy2372 yeah, I got the one with the three keys, mouse buttons, and little scroll ball for the left side of the keyboard. I don't use the mouse stuff, but the buttons are great for my thumb!
@@oxonomy2372 I have trackpoint module... it's great, but I am using it with my index finger... also have the buttons on the left, but I am using only mini trackball for scrolling
The fact that 40% boards have absolutely dominated the split ergo space is so perplexing to me! Glad to see James and I are on the same page on this one.
Layers layers layers layers. I can comfortably work on my work desktop without the need of numbers and function keys and sometimes the mouse/touchpad. The trick is in mod-tap function of qmk where holding is a different action than tapping, also thumb cluster helps. Traditional keyboard layout is boring and require more hand movements, I hate that. I think most of the complain people have for the lack of keys is because the limitation of firmware, most of the mapping software we have for the keyboards is embarrassingly lackluster, even some qmk based one like VIA is no better than actual written source code in qmk. The middle ground is something like zsa software when you can make some very advanced qmk feature in their web app then the app compile to firmware for you to load into your keyboards.
40% is a bit small for me too, but 60% is just right. I find that I need function keys so rarely that they can just be behind a layer. Dedicated arrow keys? Kinda nice to have but I'm very used to the "mod + IJKL" for that and with the UHK you can even lock the layers temporarily if you want to stay on that layer without holding the mod button. Just doubleclick the mod button to do that. You can disable the functionality on a per layer key basis too if you don't like it.
Mechanical keyboards have the same issue in general, honestly. My Logitech G510 is still going strong despite my preference for mechanical keys precisely because nobody seems interested in making a mechanical keyboard that is anywhere near as _functional_
I have the UHK v2 for a good while now (since February) and I absolutely love it for work. Never having to move my hands again just to move my mouse/scroll through the window, having custom macros and multiple profiles all saved on the keyboard. It's just awesome, I would def recommend it to people
James' unexpected demand for more full-size ergo keyboards earned a cheer of support from me, thank you for giving us a voice, there are dozens of us!!!
@@cat-le1hf Honestly, there's nothing ergonomic about having to move your hand to reach a key, or put strain on your tendons from stretching to keys further than 1 key away from the home row, unless you have long fingers I suppose?
@@oku-mq7kgunless you are short or have small hands having a miniature keyboard like this one makes no sense, I would get finger joint issues from using this thing due to how crammed it is.
I wish they would dedicate a full LTT video on ergonomics as this is their main target audience and so few education and myths out there and our health is so important...
14:10 "I can't feel the joystick rocking over" That's as intended, it's not a joystick. It's a force sensing device, so it's only supposed to move a tiny bit, if at all, but measuring the force you apply to it, rather than deflection.
Yes, you shouldn't feel it like a joystick. Its' very sensitive and only require a very little force to move your cursor compared to other pointer device. That's exactly why I really love it. It's feel so much less effort when moving the cursor around.
14:55 As someone that's grown up used to using keyboards with that big type of enter key, I think the slim enter key is the cursed type of enter key xD
Having used this keyboard for several years...I gotta commend how you managed to brick the thing right out of the gate. I haven't been able to do that ever and didn't even know those pin things exist. Just upgraded to the latest fw without a single issue. Similarly not reading any of the instruction before trying to assemble its feet and whatnot is a reflection on you, not the product. As for actually using it, it has been really comfortable! Being able to reconfigure it for your different usecases by swapping keymaps is very useful. I've used it as my daily driver for a long time now so it feels like second nature. The main problem is figuring out how you can make the most use of it rather than what the keyboard can do. I'm not really in love with the mouse modules as using them with a thumb lacks the precision of a bigger touchpad or proper mouse. Note that the mouse modules are more comfortable if you don't use very tall keycaps like SA profile. Finding keycaps for the oddball keys like the small mod/space is also problematic but they are out there in the occasional "mini spacebar" pack you might be able to get.
I've been using this for work since the v1 came out, and it's fantastic. It takes a while to get used to the layout and using all of the key combinations, but it's very rewarding when you do. I especially like how it's designed so you don't need to move your hands while you type if you need to navigate around with Home/End/Delete/Insert/etc.
I'm also concerned that it didn't have F keys when I purchased it, since this is my first non-full size keyboard, and my workflow is heavily using several function keys. But after I use it a while, I found it actually pretty usable and even more comfortable compared to the full size keyboard. Indeed you might need a key combination to active a F key, but when you do so, the hands actually stands in a more natural position and don't need stretch the palm or move your arms to reach those function keys. Most of time my hand could remain on the home row.
I've purchased first version of this keyboard during their crowdfunding stage, including key cluster / trackpoint module and the palm reset. Pretty satisfied when it's finally shipping to me. Have use this keyboard for several years, and very happy that I purchased it, especially this is almost they only split keyboard that come with a trackpoint. It's my first split and 60% keyboard, so get familiar with those layers took me about a day or two. After a week, it's become pretty nature when using it. Also the Agent is pretty awesome too, besides mapping key, it could also do macros. For example, my keyboard is connected to a KVM, and it goes to either my PC or my MacBook Pro. Since my KVM supports hot key sequence (two ctrl key and output number) to switch between outputs. So I've made a macro that when I press a key on my key cluster, it would automatically send a hot key sequence to the KVM to switch to different device, and then also switch the keyboard layout itself to matching current device's operation system.
14:50 the ISO has an extra key, so if you use the US layout with other languages you loose a certain key (for instance, if you write portuguese with a US layout you cant input greater/lesser than symbols)
Dang ANSI keyboards. I go to press ç or Enter and I hit that weirdly huge key above Enter. What is that key on American layouts and why does it deserve that much importance? 😂
Using the UHK 60 V2 for about 1.5 years now. No major issues, but I only use it for productivity (design/normal typing). Using custom layers, writing simple macro for specific tools/tasks and not needing a dedicated mouse (trackball and key cluster modules are great) were a game changer. By far the best keyboard I've used from functional point of view. Beats my personal experience with the ergodox that i tried to like, but the learning curve, backward compatibility with standard keyboards, and difficulty to properly reach the thumb cluster were not solving my specific ergo issue. With the wrist supports and small amount of tenting the UHK keyboard is ergonomic enough for my needs. Absence of dedicated function keys is a tiny bit annoying at first, but within a week or two I got completely used to the mod/fn layers natively. I often switch to index finger for precise control of the trackball. Decent build quality, with occasional need to clean the trackball (oils and particles do get behind it).
For those not in the know, Copyleft means that it's Free Software. Free software as in not monetarily Free, but Software that gives you the 4 fundamental rights of control, modification, distribution, and contribution.
I've been looking for a good keyboard with function layers and a split design that I liked and this might just be it. The extra modules design is a really great way to add additional functionality without taking more space.
If it isn't out of your price range, also take a look at the Ergodox Moonlander. I've had one for a few years now, and it's *amazing.* So much better than the plastic crap aimed at businesses looking to fulfill ADA requirements.
I've been using an ergonomic keyboard since the original MS Natural keyboard was release, circa 1994, since I had an RSI that required surgery to correct. Almost thirty years later, I'm still using an ergonomic keyboard.
Fantastic video! It's great to see you talk so well about Ergonomic Mechanical Keyboards :) Just a comment, at 10:15 you say it's dumb that Ergo keyboards are small. There is a good reason for this tho: you want to avoid extending your fingers as much as possible. So it's much better ergonomically to have logical layers that allow you to keep your fingers close to the home row to reach everything you need instead of having physical keys that force you to move around to reach them. Having layer switching keys on your thumbs, or even home row mods (hold-tap behavior on home row keys), and also combos allow to you to have everything you need close to the home row so you can keep you hands in the most ergonomic position when typing. Another comment about something you don't talk about specifically but that the keyboard you're using has: no horizontal staggering. This is usually something we don't see on ergo keyboards because it's bad and has no ergonomic reason to still exit. Horizontal staggering is bad, vertical staggering is good :)
This is actually really cool. I'm not usually a fan of TKL or SFF keyboards, but something about it splitting is actually appealing. I do wish it had a numpad though, maybe a module that attaches to the far sides, or even a wireless one (I know you can always buy one). I like that they use the clear print on the keycaps for LED shine through. I want to be able to see my keys, not just the RGB surrounding them. I see that many enthusiast boards dont (probably because you can just buy your own keycaps if you want that). All that said, $320 + $75 wrist rest is extremely expensive for a keyboard. Plus if you want a module or two (think i would get the left side button additions). This is well beyond my price range.
The final configuration reminds me of the old Microsoft ergo keyboards (which they are not making anymore). They were membrane but so good. The closest thing that is not a split is an Alice config, which comes with 65-75% layout which is great, but unfortunately has no tenting. The Microsoft one was slightly tented even tho it was a single piece)
4:43 You may want to take an anatomy class to better understand how the radius and ulna don't pinch when pronate. They and the small bones of the wrist put pressure on the nerve and connective tissue which can cause inflammation over extended periods.
I had this keyboard for over a year now. Its my daily driver There's alot more to agent software. The company UHK is very dedicated to their users and products. For anyone looking to get an ergonomic keyboard would recommend this over other split keyboards
Finally someone said something that I was thinking for ages. 60% keyboards are not great for newcomers - we need a full 104 keys keyboard. TKL at worst. Give us a truly Ergonomic full keyboard in a reasonable price 350-500$ is not reasonable) with same possibilities as those 60% and then some of us might see a reason to go for a smaller keyboard. This is why I'm MS Natural 4000 at work and working on building my own keyboard that will be TKL bit with all function keys and I'm thinking about adding numpad as an add on.
As for the weird tall Enter-key, which is called an ISO-layout, I suppose, even though I'm Dutch and thus grew up in The Netherlands, I also only/mostly had the ANSI layout on any keyboards we had, except for maybe an Olivetti desktop-set very long ago (but I'm not even sure on that). - I totally get that countries have different languages and sometimes need their tools in different languages, but in The Netherlands we seemed to have just taken English on board, unlike say countries like Germany and France and Spain, where they also opted to narrate everything, we mostly had things (barring some things like animated movies for kids) with Dutch subtitles. - And for some reason, I don't know why, we also took on board the ANSI-layout for keyboard. Perhaps they didn't see the point of changing it, because maybe we don't have enough unusual symbols and such (Dutch is quite plain in that way), and decided to import keyboard as-is or whatever. Anyway, I guess I'm quite lucky for that in that I have a lot of options to choose from today. - It also weirds me out when it's an ISO-keyboard, cause I can't type on that.
@@cat-le1hf I use a split ortho with a Logitech MX Ergo trackball mouse in between the keyboard halves, works very well. But using a non split ortho 40% or 30% with the MX Ergo next to the keyboard feels good too.
I've been using MS Natural keyboards for 25 years and even have one or two in reserve but I'm keeping my eyes open for replacements when I run out. This looks interesting.
Probably bears saying, a TrackPoint is strain gauge sensor. It is force-based. It should not 'move' noticeably. The only analogy I can think of is Race car brakes; they are usually not power assisted. You are intended to modulate them by how hard you press on them (not by how much they travel). I have found that some people cannot for the life of them understand how a trackpoint works. They must be expecting a joystick and have no neural paths for 'less presssure/more pressure'
10:44 Noooooo You NEED movement throughout the day. If you just sit at your keyboard without moving your arms you can develop frozen shoulder (there’s a reason it usually develops in the left shoulder).
James, you should do a collab with a good keyboard company: I'd buy your product! I'm after the exact same things you are. I'm currently stuck buying a Microsoft Sculpt whilst I'd still prefer a proper mechanical keyboard. The Truly Ergonomic CLEAVE doesn't do tenting, does it? UHK doesn't look too bad, but no arrow keys? No print screen? No F keys? No navigation? I tried layered keyboards and hated it because I end up having to create custom layers for all existing key combinations that are already there. E.g. I use software that requires CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-ARROWKEYS and (similar) and it's a pain with layers because I need to re-learn everything rather than get on with my work. Too many ergonomic keyboards are for enthisiasts. I'm not an enthusiast. I just want a comfortable reliable ergonomic workhorse that will not ask me to relearn everything and confuse me every time I need type something on my laptop.
At this point and price, just get a moonlander, its similar priced, have thumb cluster and its ortholinear as well which i find quite bit better than staggered
Always happy to see James on the ergo beat! I’m surprised not to see ortholinearity and thumb clusters. This seems like trying to be a close to a regular 60% as possible but with split, but where’s the fun in that? It is easier to do it in steps (I went Logitech, Moonlander with QWERTY, Moonlander with custom keymap based on Colemak-DH, 40% secondary board) but I don’t think the steps need to be this small.
I use the Kinetic gaming split keyboard. It was $200 and has the f keys and 9 dedicated macro keys. Plus you can change what every key is set to or use them as a macro.
I just saw a video from 4 years ago where this keyboard was on a shelf for "stuff to look at and maybe make a video about". GJ it only took 4 years to make this video:D
I got the yellow, and it looks great. I'm glad I didn't get the module things when I got this keyboard, as they seem half-baked. The silent pink switches are too light, they actuate with a gentle breeze. The default keymaps for the various layers are horrendous, illogical, and terribly unergonomic. The Vortex Pok3r keyboard was very good in this regard. I completely agree about function keys needing to be their own keys. They should have included more keycaps in the box, like ones to swap "Control," "Mouse," and "Caps" around. Same with "Space" and "Mod." For a premium-priced product, it leaves a bit to be desired, but I knew it was a risk going in and the other options were slim.
Great video James. It addresses a lot of good points that will save a lot of peoples' hand health. I had one of Logitech's first ergonomic keyboards, wired, full sized, split keys angled like angel wings and the best integrated hand rest I ever had. After nearly a decade, the keys were so worn, only someone who touch types could use it, as every key was done. The next keyboard, also ergo, was a Logitech HK 350 with a mouse as a bundle, also retired after nearly 15 years later for wear. To say the least, I love Logitech and ergo keyboards. I had to go to a generic keyboard due to financial restrictions which lasted maybe 2 years. I have used my computers for work, research and gaming, so my keyboards get a lot of use, and a lot of abused. Now that I am in a better position overall, I am looking to get another ergo keyboard. Your keyboard that you use looks interesting, what features do you like about it the most?
I've been using the same format of keyboard since the 1990s, with long, LONG strings of gaming and work. I've never had an RSI. In fact, I briefly worked at a place with ergonomic keyboards and it was easily the most counterintuitive piece of junk I ever used. Might be because I don't homerow type and never have, despite averaging north of 60wpm with 98% accuracy.
appreciate your knowledge on ergonomics. Curious to know what ergo chair do you recommend (for working at a desk, not gaming)? what chair do you currently use?
Btw, a better solution to extending your wrists is to put your keyboard lower than your elbows, either by lowering the entire desk or by buying a desk tray.
in my senior year of high school i had to make a business plan for a product i wanted to sell. i made a plan for a ergonomic mechanical keyboard with a split, tented design and a trackball on either of the inner sides. this is just a better execution of my dream product. i love it.
So James being the ergo God at lmg, has he tried Logitech MX Vertical (Advanced) I wonder? I personally love it, going from a "regular" mouse to one of those and the pain that I usually got from sitting in front of the computer to long (at least from using the mouse) went away. It took some time to truly get used to it, and it might not be the best for gaming, but as far as I understand the advanced version is much better at that due to faster updates the original version. For posture if you use the mouse a lot it's fantastic, I have tried many other so called ergo mouse but this is the only one I would recommend for that purpose.
Dang, a trackball on a modern keyboard? Thank you so much UHK! I love me a cursor manipulator on a keyboard. Love the thinkpad nipple also! I have a military keyboard which has a similar cursor manipulator
Got this keyboard, with the extra buttons and the trackball. I love it, but I hardly ever use the trackball as I find it too small (I'm a Logi MX Ergo boi) to be useful. I plan on trying to (or rather, have someone) mod the module to take a large ball.
There should just be the possibility to use one half of the keyboard as a mouse substitute, because else I think the ergonomics are not as good with the mouse... Though the trackpad already seems okay for that
It does have that. The capslock key is replaced by a mouse control button. You hold it with your left pinky, then IJKL become your arrow keys, and your right thumb becomes click
@@wahidpawana424 Very true. I have this keyboard and have been wishing the trackball was bigger. I use a logitech MX ergo, so I'm used to thumb trackball and it's hard to go smaller
Love the ergo kb vids. Personally I am only interested in full size ones with a keypad. Have been using MS Natural Ergo KB for YEARS, it's pretty good, but I am seeking an upgrade. I love the trackball/pad/point modules on this one. Trackpoint is one of the best things about the laptops that have 'em.
I highly disagree with James’ opinion on smaller keyboards, IMO less hand movement to reach keys when you could just hold down a thumb modifier and then hit the same key is more ergonomic. But I’m a 40% keyboard user so I am extremely biased
Yeah, I definitely think he's wrong about that. I get not liking layers, but you can just say that you'd prefer a slightly less ergonomic keyboard to avoid layers. I can even understand it if you're not able to take your custom keyboard everywhere. Haven't typed on a normal keyboard for a couple of months now and I dread the day I forget to pack my Piantor when going to work. It's going to feel so awkward. At least I'm still using QWERTY for now.
The strange thing is he does mention that less hand movement is better when talking about the trackball so… I guess it’s just a small logical fallacy that slipped on there due to some personal bias. But we all do it, and I think it was clear it’s just his opinion. I can’t get used to layers too, but I do recognize that it’s more ergonomic.
No expert (see my previous comment) but after thinking about it, I think I get what James meant. Layers would be more ergonomic if the keyboard is so small that you don't need to use your pinky finger at all (meaning there isn't a key you can't press comfortably with your pinky). That would make it "perfect" (provided you get used to layers). On the other hand, if a commonly used key requires you to hold with your thumb and press with your stretched out pinky it would get old fast (to me at least).
Was interested in this keyboard, however the lack of quality in the feet alone made me lose confidence in the rest of the build quality, if they cut corners on really cheap parts who knows what else the cut corners on....i don't know
Mine always have so I don't know what was the problem here. Some of them do have their own firmware so maybe just upgrading to the latest fw would have done the trick. All you need to do is connect the module and hit the firmware update button so it's fast to do it for them all if needed.
Mine key cluster / trackpoint module also works out of box. Not sure what problem they encountered or did they mess up the configuration by themself. The agent software is pretty versatile and you could configure pretty much anything, including how those module functions. But it also means you could totally get an usable keyboard / mouse pointer if you don't know what you are doing and mess it up really badly.
Nice keyboard but the 60 eur shipping for 600 eur order for EU shipping when other stores in europe deliver full pc case with all parts (which are ~30kg) for less than 30 eur it's kinda strange...
You guys should really look at building your own open source ones (i.e., order the pcbs from a pcb manufacturer, buy all the components, and then solder everything)
You're absolutely right, I've never wanted a small keyboard as I use all the keys including the numpad. I wish more custom manufacturers wake up to this as there's a huge market out there being shunned by them!
NOw, this is a upload I thinks makes sense. Instead of keyboards with silly unpractical gimmicks, little infoscreens you need to, 1) pick the keyboard up to see the screen or, 2) put your chin on your desk to see the screen , 3) so tiny you need a microscope to see the information displayed. This one actually makes sense thank you so much.
yeah, having only alt and the spacebar for the thumb is kinda dumb on normal keyboards. that's why i love to play my space games with a gameboard. sadly that's a type of hardware that seems quite dead nowadays. and the only one that had an analog stick instead of only buttons is the logitech g13 which hasn't been in production for over 10 years i think. i hope mine wont die soon :
This seems like the worst device to have to deal with on such a vital input. Just need to get some notes down oh no it's bricked, hand me a screw driver, a pen and a pad of paper.
Have been using DVORAK for 12 years now. Cant really say it is better or worse but it just feels right for me at least. One downside is that not all phones do dvorak well.
Its absolutely a strong and good idea, but the execution man... They need to figure out how to smooth the experience to make it a real and good keyboard. Its nice to see cool ideais in the ergo market but at the same time, seems like a lot of good ideas go through bad production/quality control
Not sure how this can be used for gaming! I mean I don't get it why ergo keyboard manufacturers put the usb connection port on the right half. This is not the first time happening; The same applies for ErgoDox ez keyboard. I was interested in both of those until I noticed where the usb port is. I mean, if you are a gamer you want to be able to use only the left part of the keyboard and have the rest of the space for your mouse, especially if you play FPS games. This is a hard no for me for this reason. Also, I saw those LEDs with some colors there but I don't see the option of assigning different RGB colors per-key, which is unfortunate. I can't justify the price with those features missing. Other than that, is a cool one; Although, as you said in the video, I would love it to had more keys on top, e.g., the F keys, etc.
