Grab some G54 merch here - www.en.garage54.ru/ Discount up to 20% with promo code "Summer2022" A follow-up to the porcelain tile brake pad episode: this one makes much more sense, we reckon. For business inquiries: promotion@garage54.ru
I think the super glue let go then the disc broke. You can get high heat epoxies that should do the job. Normal epoxie as you found out will turn soft when heated and let go.
There is also terosol structural body glue. It is a tube with 2 components mixing inside and that thing is sickest stuff I tested. You need to heat it to harden it well, we put smaller parts in barbeque and glue was really hard after a while. Mostly we used to glue on aluminium honeycomb impact dampeners in front of open wheel racer.
My guess would be that because of the high friction during the burnout the engine side ceramic got some serious heat, expanded and because theres only a very small amount of play between flywheel, clutch and pressure plate when the pedal is bering (partly) pressed down, the clutch disc exploded because it wanted to expand more than it could...
I remember helping my dad replace the clutch in his 1965 Ford Galaxie 500. It has the 390 with the 4 speed manual. That clutch would go out frequently and my dad decided to use a ceramic racing clutch. it worked although the pedal was heavy. The car never had an issue since. Now I own the car.
A high temp adhesive and surfacing the contact faces of the tile. Using rivets or screws would only introduce weak points in the tile and if they get even a little loose, the jolting would cause premature cracking. The hot spots on the flywheel and pressure plate have a couple causes. If the material was not uniform, there would be different spots with different properties. Like mixing a cake and not getting all the lumps. This is not very common with today's manufacturing, even for the cheap stuff. I believe yours happened because of uneven contact and wear creating isolated areas of high friction instead of dispersed wear. Your ingenuity and willingness to take on these projects is appreciated.
I believe yours happened because of uneven contact and wear creating isolated areas of high friction instead of dispersed wear. if that was the case then there would be a stripe rather than a spot i believe its when ta-ta-ta-ta is happening + the uneven grip so the moment it grips 100/100 its instantly stopped, like in friction welding and therefore it leaves hot spots
@@dh2032 too brittle. Having done work in masonry and tile setting, I have always found that the grout has crumbled before the brick or tile gave way. Maybe using Steel Stick putty as long as the adhering surface is well scuffed and clean.
Powder the tile and mix it with fiberglass resin to make your own plates. That would be awesome and cheep to do. Love you guys ❤️ definitely one of my favorite channels on RU-vid.
The hotspots on the friction disc are due to the thickness of the disc… As steel is heated the friction coefficient gets higher, so it grips, or gets hotter faster. Since the back of the friction disc isn't machined, it has thin spots, and those get blued.
The back of the tile is too textured you need a smooth surface to glue it properly to the clutch hub it would probably work significantly worse or fall apart quicker
The super glue definitely let go. It's not designed for heat. I think you gentlemen need to use extreme heat metal epoxy like JB Weld. Very entertaining, like always! Thank you!
Some racing clutches are very coarse. I suggest using big metal cut off wheels or a grinding wheel to drill and counter sink into. Been watching for a long time and enjoy seeing y'all push the limit's and create.
you are not alone brother maybe just maybe when this B's is over we could import a few they are over 25 years old and the import price comes down when the car count goes up let's talk
Some of them made their way to Canada many years ago. I was just a kid and remember them being junk back then but yeah, they look neat. Put the body on a good chassis with a small block chevy and fun would be had
I love these guys! We all pretty much know what is going to happen, but they set out and actually prove it and sometimes prove what we think will happen to be wrong! Either way I get excited whenever they post a new video!
Ok... I'm not even gonna lie, I was damn near certain that disc was gonna explode, like IMMEDIATELY. But, that burnout literally left my jaw dropped open... I love this goddamn channel
That was a really awesome video Team Garage 54. You guys was awesome. I find it really amazing how something that is so smooth can grip so tightly. It is so puzzling but it is amazing to watch. Thanks for sharing this video with us.
It's actually quite rough, it has a certain grit to it. You can evem sharpen a knife on a tile (smooth side). The grit just chips/abrades metal because it's much harder.
new video idea. make a floating device boyant enough to hold a LADA, use the drive shaft as a propeller through the floor of the boat that will hold up the lada lol
I feel like there's a bunch of ladas somewhere in russia talking about all the horrors of their time in Garage 54.. Like a horror movie.. Love it!, keep up the good work! Wonder how a welded diff would have treated that clutch....
I just want to say hey a shout out the garage 54 and to let them know that it is so awesome to have them on RU-vid I really enjoyed the content and the knowledge cuz sometimes people can't afford to buy the part they need to have to learn how to compromise and I think this guy shows that and some ways and he also teaches you about cars this shows just playing awesome thank you again you too you too
Try this again but use a couple of 30cm metal or stone cutting grinding discs, use the water jet to cut them to shape and rivet them to the pressure plate. Grinding discs have a strong woven construction that incorporates the ceramic friction material and are designed to be strong in tension, heat proof and completely shatter proof
I have an idea worth trying, 2 manual transmissions in Lada, the 1st transmission is connected to the engine as usual then welding a flywheel at the end of 1st transmission, then install a clutch for the 2nd transmission, then install the 2nd transmission, last you install driveshaft to the end of 2nd transmission after adjusting driveshaft length. Remember that 2 clutch pedals are needed to change gears for each transmission individually, this will add so many variables to rear-end torque and speed ✌️
No need for the second clutch and flywheel, think 4wd gearbox into the transfer case (or twin t-cases) all shift off the one clutch on the back of the motor.
I ran a sintered copper 4 puck disc once ,it chattered like a bastard but the ceramic/ carbon replacement was 10x better. Suitable for daily use in fact.
@@MrTheHillfolk in the old formula Continental car that I used to run, with a Ford 2.3 l carbureted engine we had a solid copper friction disc for the clutch. It was perfect for an open-wheel race car, it would suck on the street but it would be interesting to see them make a clutch like that.
I would really like to see this again, with the smooth sides out and high heat epoxy. It seems like it could actually work. I think the shaking was from the coarse side of the tiles being on the outside.
i love how you guy do these projects to se if it works and the info after is vital i think i have repaired a few clutch disks to extend the life due to lack of money to replace the part and i have had good luck with it ive shimmed the clutch to thicken it and on a seperate job i used fiberglass resin just the resin and it to worked for some time thanks for the videos looking forward to more
In the 1970s I once had to drive a broken truck from North Africa to Western Europe, with a defective clutch. I then made clutch plates of plywood, and to my surprise I got home safely
I'm glad to see we got a thorough look at the aftermath with this one. It's interesting as hell, but they don't always include it. My guess on the cooked spots on the flywheel and cover plate would be that they were ever so slight high spots. With the almost instant abuse these parts saw, they would have experienced localised uneven heating from friction, then as the metal expanded they'd have become much more pronounced high spots. I'd think that if this clutch had been given a bit more of a break in time the contact area might have become a lot more even. I'm now wondering what they could have used to skim the clutch disc flat before fitting it? A tool post grinder would probably have done the job, but the porcelain would have been brutal on the grinding wheel. Maybe something like an old knurling tool would have been able to "Crush off" the high spots without cracking the whole disc?
Great comment. I certainly agree had the material been smoothed out it would have been much better. Tricky process though but a Diamond cutter could have been used. ' DROPPING ' the clutch is definitely not recommended especially when it hasn't been ' seated ' on both pressure plate and flywheel through time. Otherwise one helluva video and hats off to these marvelous Russian guys saving us unnecessary money experimenting.
also you need heat dissapation grooves so it wont get hot so quick also power breaking on a new clutch will take out the clutch quickly my truck 95 nissan has a 3 puck ceramic clutch in it getting a smooth take off is very difficult because the clutch wants to engage instantly just food for thought.
@@raven4k998 True, but the point is that the V8 is over the top fast and cool, could fill a huge tank up in seconds if they had 8 separate lines into the tank.
I think the failure was from the glue letting go. Cyanoacrylate or superglue is too brittle once its cured and also will soften with heat. Try using a reinforced epoxy capable of higher temperature like JB Weld, that should hopefully take more punishment.
since they used the rough side of the tiles it DECREASES the contact area between the flywheel and pressure plate which at the same time effectively INCREASES the clamping force of the pressure plate which is why the clutch was so grabby
As a lathe guy myself I know when properly set up a lathe runs true. If it was out of round, you would have a one sided engagement on the flywheel and pressure plate. Those spots however, are likely caused by uneven expansion and contraction of the metal as the temperature changes. I've seen this on clutches before and it's likely caused by the friction of the clutch heating on the inside where the friction occurs faster than the outside edge. This causes the metal to expand and bulge outward into the clutch disc leading the those hot spots.
That worked better than I expected. Maybe if you can find a way to machine the faces super flat after mounting them, it might grip and wear more evenly. Haha this was great.
Thats are hotspots you can machine it really hard, because in the past the spots were heat threatened by the cluth. So if you try to turn the plate in the lathe or mill it in the milling machine the mixture of the harder and softer areas are making throuble to get a good result. It can be too that it was machined the right way, but if you have done the burnout you created the hotspots with the ceramic clutch.
Great experiment and clever workmanship in constructing the clutch components. Now I would love to own an old Lada motor car, seems to be an easily serviceable vehicle and very robust. Greetings from central Australia!
The reason why you have Heat spots is basically because The ceramic spot-welds itself for a moment when it finds grip and when the heat transfers it brakes off again. The plate doesn't have full contact like regular clutch plate so the heat transfer is not even and there in for distributed, but concentrated in small areas and therefor Very amplified. Also ceramic plate gets much hotter. Realistically they are used on Tanks Combines tractors and heavy duty Huge torque machines. But Flywheels and Pressure plates are much harder, also Clutch baskets apply way more pressure to engage them. They have Multiplate design and reduced diameter compared to Regular clutch plates. Since Ceramics needs higher Temps and pressure to start gripping. But when it does, it sticks stronger. Multiplate design helps smooth engagement and heat distribution.
Reading Berkshire in the u.k. has a car workshop called garage 34 ,with identical graphics,congratulations you are now so famous people are copying you thousands of miles away.
The dark spots are called hard spots. Inconsistency in the casting allows for uneven heating and if it gets hot enough, it tempers the iron in that spot.
You need better glue I think, or recess the tile to take rivets. And as with the brake pads I think it would work better using the smooth side for friction. Nice try. 👍
I think they are still working on finding an adhesive that handles the heat better I mean if they are using it for things like this you would to for a youtube channel if you do crazy things like this on it
As I am trying to learn Russian, I would have appreciated greatly if I could hear their voices louder or if you provided a subtitled version. This is one of my favorite shows and it would have been nice to combine learning about cars with learning Russian in one sitting. Thank you!
for the other disks try to rivet them properly and then machine them so they are perfectly flat I recon you need CBN or diamond inserts for that alternative would be to mount the angle grinder to the tailstock and machine it like that.
the blue patches are hot spots from over heating the not worn in clutch, like you said it is not full contact yet so it overheats in the small contact patches until it wears in. also you glued the tiles on the smooth side which has dye and a layer of glazing, you should have removed that layer and glued direct to the ceramic.
I daily drive a car with a ceramic clutch. Getting stuck in traffic is the worst. The clutch grips more and more the hotter it gets and it gets harder to drive off without spinning the wheels.
Decorative side out and cut grooves to assist the bite, you don't need half the surface area with a ceramic clutch so you could try 4 or 6 pad like pucks instead
Robohut is right. They do have high heat adhesive. But that’s a pretty cool idea. I Love what Garage54 does with experimenting with different types of materials and objects.
My guess about the spots on the pressure plate is that localized spots on the clutch disc get very hot during abuse, then, once the clutch is fully engaged the hot spot on the disk will be locked to one spot on the plate, and heat it, causing it to blue, like that.
i say lets do a retry only this time machine the ceramic a little thinner put the smooth side facing the flywheel and the pressure plate. the pressure from the pressure plate should me more than enough to grip (using a new one of course) by doing this i believe you will get grip around the entire surface of the fly wheel and not just in spots also make sure you use the proper adhesive /nice to see the three ring pistons are still running strong great video guys
Take the holed tiles and build another clutch with smooth out. Also sand down the rough side before assembly to make sure the disc will be flat. As shown the spots are the high point that are making contact.
Ceramic clutch discs usually have multiple separate pads attached to a backing plate, It's just too rigid with a solid ceramic surface. If you look at the backing plate you used, the six wings and all the grooves machined in it makes it flexible, and the stock friction material will also flex, allowing it to conform to the pressure plate and flywheel evenly. But it was interesting to see the results. Curious to see if it would work better by making 3 pads, and attach them to the three wings that have the rivets attaching them to the center plate, and cut the three remaining wings off.
wow not bad . You need a more solid metal disc to put the ceramic onto that wont flex. Thats why it burst. also some kind of lower surface around it for a clamp ring would help it stay together better , just around the edge of it.
It could be the material behind it or inside the first spot material to heat up will expand quicker and make the rest of it cooler because it has less pressure on it
