Some World of Warcraft The War Within Speculation coming out of the WoW Chronicles Volume 4. Twitch: / accolonn Patreon: / accolonn X (Formerly Twitter): / theaccolonn Merch: easy-life-3.cr...
The Seat of the Pantheon is also the name of the last wing of the raid in game. The last wing includes the Aggramar fight. It just didn't took place inside. Like the Battle of Stamford Bridge. It happened at the village, not *JUST* on the bridge. Edit: couple typos
Hey Acco, I just realized that the Aggramar boss fight takes place in a giant circular room with floating railings around the edges, almost as if the seat of the pantheon could have literally been taken off of that very platform that we fight him on
Nobody talks about where Argus is now?? His death kicked off Shadowlands and he over loads the arbiter but where did he go from there? Surely he cannot be destroyed
Argus was stuck in the arbiter (i think) and Zovaal consumed the arbiters power. so i guess in Zovaal? and he died. i´m not so sure if there is a good answer to this question.
we didnt really fight aggramar.. we fought a avatar of aggramar.. then once the avatar was defeated the real aggramar's spirt was freed from said avatar.. the real aggramar showed up when we arrived with the others to the seat of the pantheon..
Amazing that someone caught this, well done. The avatar looks just like the one we fought in ToS. Attack patterns are shared between all the titan constructs, and it makes more sense thinking about it from this pov
I agree that it might be the avatar of Aggramar given his size, but the book says that we ‘fight’ Aggramar on the seat of the pantheon, so while we do see him on the seat later, we don’t fight him there
One thing I don't see anyone talking about is the Dark Heart. In the Cinematic Trailer, Xal'atath looked at main characters through the stars. Makes me think of Ulduar and all the constellation images. Might be a link between the Dark Heart and Titan tech. A way to look into the future maybe? Like Uludar had Orc holograms if I recall correctly, thousands of years before Orcs came to Azeroth. Might be why the Titans chose this timeline, because the stars align in their favor in this timeline. Could be that destiny is "written in the stars" literally in Wow.
we know the titans have Norgabytes full of data on species and can manifest them whenever they want to seed a new world. (uldir lore) its not so far fetched that the titans also seeded dreanor with orks and dreanei (?)
the pantheon are probably real titans. there are likely tons of world souls in the great beyond and its just what force most influences a world souls that determines what it becomes. Void=Void lord. Order/Life=Titan, etc etc. we probably just dont have the best samples of all the forms because order managed to get the jump on the other forces. Maybe it'd be better to say theyre all Titans including the Void lords but not all Titans are equal(Sargeras, Azeroth, Argus all seem especially powerful).
I think it's just since they closed CDEV nothing has been double checked and the release it's a mess. I had been thinking on if there might be some way that the place where we fought Aggramar can be understood as the seat of the pantheon but there is no way we can repair that. It was clearly the core of Antorus inside the Argus planet, where they had Argus' World Soul doing something and the corrupted Aggramar watching over it. It's just a very big mistake we can't repair with headcanon that also makes you ask yourself who is writing this. A lapsus of someone who knows and that wasn't double checked? Or just that they have people in the story team that have been here only 3 or 4 years and don't know their stuff?
we actually know this could be true. the structres on argus 10.000 years ago where from the titans. here is the Quote: It reminded her of Azeroth, of the old ruins that predated even the earliest Highborne settlements. Those had been titan ruins. Why was she seeing titan architecture on Argus? (10.000 years before we visist)
@@surin9030 It says "players" instead of adventurers at one point. They provided a really messed up order for the BFA campaign (requiring stuff from 8.1 to happen before the Horde frees Zul/Talanji). One section refers to 5 old gods, another says 4 like we're used to. Claims we fought Aggramar at the seat of the Pantheon (that was Argus). There are a few other smaller retcons that I don't mind (like the first ones being referred to as a legend of the Shadowlands and possibly just a different name for the primal forces, rather than beings).
@@StormsparkPegasus I hear you. I actually dropped off of wow during the BFA era, so those details will fall short of my deception. But I do hear you on the nitpicks. As someone who adores Mythos & storytelling, I get your perspective, not having things be concise & well-considered is a thorn in my side as well. But, as a fan of wow, I love the initiative behind putting out the chronicle books. I don’t always want a YT video essay to explain to me the forgotten lore & its relevance to the current timeline. It’s honestly been enjoyable reading through the books & just appreciating the incredible artwork. I’m hoping TWW brings back the nostalgia of getting lost in The Grizzly Hills, or being completely sidetracked while adventuring in The OG Barrens.
@@surin9030 To be entirely fair, a lot of the book is fine. It's just that there were errors that should've been caught with some basic proofreading. I get the impression the book was rushed.
@@StormsparkPegasus I respect that. Is there a particular part of TWW you’re excited for? For me, it’s always getting lost in the new questing, resources, & zones.
Wait I definitely remember already knowing that the Titans as we dealt with them in legion weren't in their actual bodies. We already knew that Sargeras destroyed them and their "souls" lingered. It's been awhile, so I forget if we had confirmation in a quest or it was just easy to speculate, but their souls/essences were put into other bodies (avatars). I can't remember exactly when the quest happened, but I'm pretty sure it was on Argus (the planet), you were ganking stuff on one of those paladin mechs, and then a cutscene involving Aggramar played. I think that quest was involved. I definitely already "knew" or it was at least heavily implied that the Legion put the titan souls/essences in avatars. I don't think that's an inconsistency.
I wonder if the seat of the Pantheon is the prize that the Titans denied Sargeras. Eonar said something about denying him a prize. At first, I thought the prize might be Eonar herself, but now I believe it was the seat of the Pantheon. The Titans must have removed it from the Pantheon on Argus.
Do these authors even work with the WoW lore and narrative teams? It seems that there’s no communication and the authors of the books don’t even play the game to know the lore. There’s like basically no errors (bar the first book with information regarding Astrologian and the NPC character in the quest line) in the FFXIV Encyclopædia books. I didn’t even find any errors in the Chronicles of Light novel with its short stories as I went back and analyzed cutscenes and dialogue in the game for facts, and it was literally accurate to the point.
wouldnt that make the true titans first ones? also, I dont see the death realms built to harness but to harvest. we've seen some souls that feel out of place in their afterlife. the arbiter seems to function as a sorting machine to ensure each realm get equal amounts of anima with the maw being shut out completely.
I just don't understand why they can't do creative writing to explain something new instead of retconning. I'm fine with the idea that certain parts of lore might get changed due to us being told through different character perspectives, such as the original character or source of that info not actually having all of the facts or even getting things wrong. I can't respect blatant retcons though, and the more Blizzard keeps retconning the lore the less serious I can take any of it. I'm basically still living in Legion being the cannon ending of WoW.
it is not. listen to blizzcon again. "yes the titans, AND those who serve them." - was later confirmed to be a writer from azeroth. its us. its our pov. we work for the titans (atleast for now)
So Zuval wasn't titan++? Just sounds to me like Blizzard doesn't know what they are doing. More like they expected the game to be over way before now and so they invent things on the fly to keep milking the cow.
Even if it was a mistake I don't see blizzard admitting to it, so consider it canonical on purpose until proven otherwise. I personally am not investing myself till there is future material in the game that affirms it.
Shadowlands taught us about The First Ones, domination magic and vessels that house great entities. I think we fought Agrammar's dominated vessel, freeing him after the destruction of it. I believe that Argus and Azeroth might be First Ones and not just Titans. Maybe after the defeat of Argus' broken and dominated vessel, his freed entity might have eventually gone to Azeroth, either through Sagaras' sword or through the Shadowlands. This is why Azeroth, and azurite colors might be now yellow and blue, since it was before just yellow.
I think moving forward these sort of perspectives will be essential for understanding the events of the World Soul Saga for the simple fact that Metzen is unifying things
He isn’t Jesus so don’t count on things being smoothed over or fixed properly. WoW’s current story and lore that’s messed up is going to be tough to fix. It’s like untangling spaghetti without trying to break it.
@@adamslosslessmusiccollection I loved the lore of shadowlands, but not the story they chose to focus on. I think they should have made Sylvanas play a game of cat and mouse with our character, during which she explains the flaw of each faction that we go on to not only fix but improve. Sylvanas could have carried that expansion without the jailer. But the Jailer’s lore…not his presentation, was trash. I’m making a nuanced argument so you get an honest answer from me
Everything fr BFAIL onwards lore got really weird, but in a bad sense, there are so many inconsistencies and lame or dumb lore directions. Even the book wasn't able to explain Sylvannas' weird story arcs. This books' content sort of confirms that lore got really damaged🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️.
you should listen to "a thousand years of war". Fel is the prison, argus is death. "Why was she seeing titan architecture on Argus? And what was inside? That thought seemed to attract attention. The presence in her mind was no longer fluttering. It went silent. It had noticed her. She felt a terrible warmth. She saw fire in her mind's eye. She saw a shimmering sphere of raw power, trapped, straining to escape a fel prison. An emerald prison."
@@Nagria2112 Really doesn't counter what has been stated elsewhere that the dread lords infused argus with death magic. And yes fel did imprison argus as the legion were using the world soul basically as a engine to supercharge how fast the demons respawned. Argus did not willingly join their side but was twisted and used by both the legion and the jailer.
@@Whatatwist2009 hmm maybe im interpreting a thousand years of war wrong. but what IS argus? if Fel is his prison and death is infused what was he before that?
@@Nagria2112 A lot of debate on that. If world souls are titans than he would have been arcane/order magic based. However someone hints are that world sounds can be molded by any of the magics. It is why the titans and sarg are deathly afraid of the void and azeroth.
@@Whatatwist2009 i´m totally onboard with that theory - those are world souls. hmmm i´m not so sure about the last part because of "enemy infiltration - preface". it states that the Nathrazim fractured the titan pantheon by telling them about "a great evil" probably Demons or the Void. Further more there is a great theory (credit: pyromancer) that sargeras is the Sun - Anshe.
Poor QA. Blizzard lore folk are not infallible… Or the name of the final raid wing is Seat of the Pantheon, which includes Ago and Argus Or both 😂 I enjoy off-the-wall theories as much as the next nerd but this one is a nonstarter for me Either one, simple enough. No mental gymnastics required.
And all these changes is why Wow lore is BS and worthless. The whole point of releasing the chronicles according to blizzard was to unify the lore and have things make sense because of all their Retcons over the years. Them retconning what chronicles say is them giving up and saying the lore is worthless.
Interesting theory about Antorus being part of the first titan world. I think you might be right. It’s kind of like Mount Olympus being an entire mountain.
everything else in this text is also very very interesting. 1) his essence was bound to his Avatar? seems like a prison and not a normal body 2) cradle of creation? creation of what`?
Hey Acco, is it possible that the titan pantheon is made up of titans from each cosmological forces but all dominated? the only real order titan is Aman'thul? Sargeras snapping out of it and fighting them may have been due to his fel power (fel being a little stronger vs. order) but the others haven't been able to break it. It would explain why the members of the pantheon seem out of place and not actual order titans. It also would explain why we see void and light trying to fight for Azeroth and other forces aren't, because their titan isn't in charge of their realm, order is.
This is why I no longer get excited about wow lore. Its reached a point where everything is retconned and how we've been gaslit all this time bollocks. I don't feel like getting invested in the lore as a result.
The writers over at blizzard don't know what the fuck to do anymore. They are incompetent and will write whatever to keep this shell of a story going. Your speculation would be awesome if they turned it into reality, but unortunately they won't.
I've never felt more ripped off for that 90$ that I had to pay for the 1st 3 chronicles. Also, no offense, but you must be delusional if you think even for a moment that vol. 4 wasn't screwed up, because the order of events for BFA is complete and utter nonsense!
@@jshadowhunter I didn't speak on the order because as I said, the book isn't available in South Africa so I'm not going to talk on things I don't know about. I was only talking about what I personally have seen.
i believe the titans are space old gods...that once sargaras killed the orginal titans. the void saw this and send old gods to disquise as the titans..
BS BS BS ... there is no speculation, there are only braindead writers who can't even keep up with in game facts ... when pre-fight Argus cinematics is rolling out, Sargeras says this "... rise Argus, rise my broken world ..." there is no speculation there it's clear as day we fight Argus not Aggramar at seat of pantheon.
I don't get the issue. we fought aggramar. it was in the raid. basically it was the seat of the pantheon. the titans refer to it as the cradle of creation. gamers arguing about made up semantics about made up lore. lol
