The amount of time and labor required for the WTF method has always kept me from trying it (I have the same problem with making proper pizza dough!). Plus, I don't like the fact that I can't really calculate accurate macros and calories with the WTF method, but I definitely can using vital wheat gluten.
Mike, if you wanted to simulate the WTF method with wheat gluten, why couldn't you just bring the gluten together to form a ball, than you submerge the gluten in water and knead it as though you were at the end of the WTF process. I haven't tried this yet but it seems to me , the major difference between the WTF method and just using wheat gluten to form Seitan is the time you spend kneading the dough in the water after the starch is removed. I haven't tried this yet but I think a few minutes spent kneading the wheat gluten submerged in water would open up the strands the way you do using the WTF method. I may be waaaay off base but the next time I make Seitan with Vital wheat gluten I'm going to finish up the process with the wheat gluten submerged in water. You have a really informative channel, I like the way you present your ideas and recipes.
Huh. I've never considered this! Really interesting idea. Please do report back if you give this a go and I'll let you know if I do the same. So glad you enjoy the channel! Comments like yours, helping to share ideas with the community, is what this is all about!
Not trying to sound like a smart ass, but it wouldn’t work. The washing and massaging part are only to remove the starch. The starch content is what makes the difference in the end result in my opinion. I’ve tried both methods and it seems that gluten flour is more dense in general because it has less of a starch content. I experimented adding starch to gluten flour by adding regular flour or adding boiled potatoes and the final result is very similar if not the same to wtf method. I also think it makes a HUGE difference to knead the gluten flour dough in a food processor for about 5 min until it becomes stretchy and stringy. Let it rest for about an hour, and it will become very stretchy. Doing this has resulted in very similar results to WTF method Washing the gluten flour ball would remove the starches even more and it already has less starch than when doing the WTF method.
I am so new to this! I believe that I would prefer to use vital wheat gluten. I have a "VERY" small kitchen and really don't want to do the WTF method. Thank you for explaining the difference. I live in a ver rural area and don't have access to a natural food store, so Amazon is the only thing available to me.
I need to put in more time practicing the WTF method. I never seem to be able to get as much starch off as I would like. Or better said I Dom't always want to put in all that work LOL But certain things come out better from washing flour.
For sure - one game changer for me was really letting the dough rest before I washed. The minimum you should let it rest is one hour. The more you can get the gluten to form before your start, the better your experience of washing will be.
@@BoldFlavorVegan Hmm and I have never let it rest for long. I noticed too when making pasta that if you let it rest at least that amount of time you get a much better consistency. Thanks for the tip!
My understanding is that in the WTF version beetroot will turn the roast grey, unfortunately. I've had several people share photos after trying. Re: paprika and tomato paste, I'm not sure how you'd get that color to stick in the roast, but if you figure it out let me know. You'd have to use a lot of paprika.
WHAT ARE THE BEST FLAVORING PRODUCTS FOR SEITAN ? i mean that i want only one simple thing to put the meat flavor instead of a group of specific hard to find little things ! YOU KNOWN ! the flavors i loking for are (ham/sausage) cow meat And peperoni
it's really not that hard I successfully did it first time and made awesome shredded chicken for stir fry, tacos, and BBQ sandwiches. wtf in my opinion tastes much better. It totally lacks the distinctive off flavor that comes with vwg.
Hate to be the “well actually”, but…: - From appearance alone, your vital wheat gluten was not kneaded nearly enough - For consistency, you should incorporate the spices the same as WTF, which means folding in - Knotting the dough is a standard for VWG - Also, you’re WTF example had two separate seitan textures. Should have done that with VWG to have a fair comparison.
WTF method is less work? I don't think so. I've found vital wheat gluten is just more starch removed than what you do when you wash flour. Add in starches, more regular or other flour, tofu, beans, etc, so it's not so much pure gluten.
I am not able to find gluten flour, so i will be using WTF. Thanks for explaining difference. So it is better to dry the gluten and after that use it, if i am starting with this kind of cooking?
Either you want to eat meat or not. If vegan you don't need any substitute or change the name, meat is the flesh of an animal. There are no milks unless out of a mammal.
The problem I have w VWG is that no matter what I do or what brand I use, there's always that off-putting wheaty flavor. I've tried all of the recommended fixes and coverups and nothing removes it. Even my fiancé who has some of the weakest taste buds of anyone I've met can detect it.
Yes, that is usually the first recommendation. I've tried it, lemon juice, citric acid, adding more spices, adding even MORE spices etc. So far none cover up the VWG funk. @@emb5091
Hey I came here from your other seitan ham video, thank you for recommending it. One follow up, do you know what the nutritional difference would be? I have a feeling that the vital wheat gluten would have more protein, but that is just assuming that all the starch doesn't wash out.
I've never done the math - but I use AP Flour in that recipe which would yield about 1650g of gluten at about 50-60 total servings, with the other info in that recipe, you should be able to calculate the nutrition! I know that it is meant to mimic the sodium and fat content of animal based ham, so I'd be interested to know how they match up. One important thing is that not all the salt gets into the final product, probably only 75% max makes it in there. You can see how this can get kind of whacky to figure out.
In my opinion WTF is better, but more work. So far I made a handful of recipes using the WTF method and dozens using the VWG with good results, still WTF wins, Thank you for your videos, keep them coming!
I started out with WTF (had no idea it was called that, lol) because none of the - even more specialist - stores I went to carried VWF. I did it only once though, and years later that first try still was the best seitan I've ever eaten. But alas, my hands just couldn't take it. I found an online shop to order VWF, but I've never been able to replicate that oh so great texture I got with the first batch. Here's the thing though: I had NO IDEA though that it called for different recipes. I was beginning to suspect that maybe I should add in a bit of normal flour with the VWG next time to add a bit of starch back in, but I now finally understand that it's the process that makes it so different, and not so much the ingredients. So thank you. On a brighter note, I did make a tofu/seitan mixture last week that came out great and had a texture that reminded me of that first seitan batch I ever made. So even if I can't get to that WTF consistency and texture, there's still other things that can elevate a recipe above my go-to of tofu or legumes.
Someone finally did this comprehensive comparison between the different types of flours, the different cooking methods. Also between the washed flour, the vital wheat gluten and about being able to convert the recipe. All the answers were spot on, with my understanding of the information, I had been collecting on the subject. Thank you so much for confirming my conclusions. You did an exhaustive commentary with Seitan!
I use Seitan Base (not Vital Wheat Gluten, from Veganz) and have been stretching and folding it like a bread dough as well as making knots with quite good results in the looks of a shredded final texture and in mouthfeel of the product. If you do not stick to recipes (what I seldom do) but do experiment a little and give the "instant seitan" enough of manual handling I doubt the results will differ very much. I think a much bigger difference is achieved by the cooking method (boiling vs. steaming) and by restricting its "growth" with something you wrap around it or not. For me personally it is too much of a time effort AND waste of water to wash flour, if someone else with a big centrifuge can separate starch from gluten in an industrial process for me, but you do you and you do as you like. :) Edit: also Saucestache has very interesting video on the effect on the consistency and flavour of adding nutritional yeast to your Seitan. About 25% of the weight of your Seitan base seems best. But go and watch it, its a cool experiment!
Just a suggestion from practice... I do have very good results adding to VWG: garbanzo flour, starches, x-firm tofu (mostly ground between fingers etc.), in order to adjust the "bite", and if simulating a cut of meat that includes multiple muscles in the cut (go ahead and ask a butcher - just don't buy something) and lay a seasoned sheet of rice paper between 2, 3, or more "muscles" then cook as you will. Cheers
@@BoldFlavorVegan the rice paper, when moistened (and I use seasoned water - but plain will do) becomes very pliable, sticky and membrane like. Just wrap each chunk of raw seitan and when assembled they will simply stick together. Let rest. If you choose you can bind with a few wraps of twine. Braise if desired, then roast, etc. I wrap this then in unbleached linen (washable and reusable) rather than single use cheesecloth. This limits unwanted expansion when roasting under low heat in a seasoned broth. I tend to use the textured rice paper - it is a touch thicker so sturdier. Hope this makes sense and helps. Cheers
@@wayne00k This is REALLY interesting. Would you be interested in/able to DM me some pictures of the final products you've made with this technique (I'm on Facebook and Instagram)? It this mimicking a specific cut of meat, or do you consider it its own thing?
@@BoldFlavorVegan View @4.00 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qCZbnBFfOUw.html This is Korenn Rachelle. I refined my method from her ox tail recipe. This works well as a substitute for the layered butter. When using the paper we can control where the "marbling" seams break... without actually causing a seam where the meat literally fractures so that full slices can cut. I have done this for steak cuts, chops, and chicken/turkey drumsticks (which are awsome when finished in a quick fry of oil for crispy skin). The WF method you used for ham looks absolutely amazing - but using the paper should give you control over the fracturing that the "butter" potentially causes. As I use the VWG method, I'm essentially working backwards by adding garbanzo flour or baking soda, etc., to eliminate the "rubbery" texture. I'm sorry that I can't IM/DM as I only use Signal and Telegram.
Love this man... and This is good to know ... so i suppose WTF is pre dehydrated as compared to VWG is the actually thee dehydrated version. Def a question I've always wanted to test out for myself maybe this will spur me on to actually try it. The WTF method tho Visually can't compare. It really is eye candy. Looks great 👍 ... And thanks for sharing 👌😋
Aaaaaah! How super nice it is for you with such a haircut! It suits you very well, much more than with long hair. And as for the video: thank you very much for the comparison
Thank you for making this video comparing the 2 methods! I have been trying to look for someone to make a video like this for a while or read in a blog of anyone stating the differences when I first embarked in my WTF journey. Thank you for this!
Aw thanks! That is exactly why I did it. I was thinking about knowledge I wish I had access to when I was starting out so I made this and my 101 video.
Nice vid. Do you find that VWG has an underlying wheat taste that is super hard to get rid of? I have put so much flavor into it and cannot get the taste to go away. I've heard it's from the processing.
@@BoldFlavorVegan OH I've used it. No dice. And I've used it in powder form, along with soy sauce powder to reduce the liquidity. They work great in normal circumstances but the wheat taste is just too dang powerful! But yeah, I'd love to see your take on it. Although I've done months worth of different recipes, I've only used Bob's red mill so that limits the depth of my experimentation.
The youtube algo has totally failed suggesting this one. This is the strangest thing ive seen in a while. Ya’ll know pasture raised steak exists, right?
