I completely agree with with you , when people say that the boys loved the girls I never believed that because they didn’t know them, they were in love with the idea of them
It’s crazy to me that the boys never understood why the Lisbon sisters killed themselves; Their sister had just died, they had no freedom whatsoever, their parents’ idea of a punishment was to dehumanize them completely and their tree was cut off!
@@vintagesparkles4289 you meant authoritarian* . Lol there really is a difference.. Authoritative is a more democratic parenting style where they discuss things with their kids while authoritarian is strict obedience.
@@dreamyanon5151 haha thank you! that's humiliating, i took a psychology class and i'm pretty sure they went over the distinction and i STILL got it wrong. thank you so much for clarifying!
I’ve always viewed this movie as a harsh critique on how people romanticize mental illness. The boys idealize the girls’ shared sadness and even fantasize about saving them. That’s why we have this romantic and dreamy aesthetic throughout the movie, which is juxtaposed by the stark and inglorious climax when the boys discover the girls’ bodies and find out that they have all taken their own lives.
You are reading way too much into it. The boys were simply attracted to them. The story isn't about the boys. It's about the cloistered existence of the girls, and the effect it had on them.
I do agree with you! I always thought that the boys commentary were unsettling! But the harsh truth is that! Those boys could never save them because those boys never even knew them! Their love was superficial and all their commentary felt both unsettling and their egotistical personalities.
I say this in the least condescending way possible, but I truly don’t think that the line “you’ve never been a 13 year old girl” hits men as hard as it hits women. I felt that in my soul. So often the teenage girl experience is trivialized, meanwhile we have countless movies and books about the teenage boy experience. I’m glad the RU-vid algorithm recommended this video!!
You dont know what its like to be anyone else regardless of age or gender. You're not special because you feel misunderstood or think you see yourself in a movie. You dont, youre not, youre just still in a self obsessed stage of life but now old enough to reflect on adolescence. Sure your mind and body were doing crazy things every day. But that was happening and has happened and will happen to everyone else as well.
as a sixteen year old girl, this movie really spoke to me. one thing i will remember is when the dad said 'they're all going to die anyways' when speaking about the trees. im not sure if it was confirmed but i believe it was foreshadowing the girls inevitable death. this video was lovely by the way!!
have you looked into the theory about how the photo the Lisbon sisters took before prom also kinda foreshadowed their death? It’s pretty interesting, maybe even a reach, but it’s still kinda cool to check out if you haven’t! :) In the photo Lux’s hand looks like she's holding a cigarette. (She dies with a cigarette in her hand), Therese has her eyes closed (She overdoses on sleeping pills). Mary is stuck between the other two girls (she sticks her head in an oven), and Bonnie is grabbing her neck (she hangs herself). here’s a link to the exact photo: ibb.co/ctTY4VQ
That line always struck me, especially in the trailer - the audio is spoken over an image of one of the girls (I think it was Therese) - making it seem like he's talking about them. That's how I always felt, and then with the metaphor of the dying trees being linked to the suicides only furthered that feeling.
@@ephemeral783 also, during homecoming, the song "come sail away" plays, which mentions 'a gathering of angels' which one could argue also is foreshadowing
Something that always stuck out to me was when the youngest sister was told "you are too young to even understand how difficult life gets" and she replies "obviously, doctor, you've never been a 13 year old girl." The experience of being a teenage girl is extremely difficult and no one ever wants to talk about it. Society hates teenage girls. Anything they like gets trashed on, they're seen as dramatic and any signs of mental health issues are downplayed, major improper education on sex, drugs and alcohol, adults not seeming to take them seriously, an introduction to misogyny as girls become women, the removal of childhood's rose-tinted glasses, and coming into sexuality. A lot of these can be attributed to the fact that teenagers just don't have control, they're entirely dependent on the other forces in their lives when all they so desperately crave is just a little independence. Whether it's parents, teachers, their society, their community, etc. Teenager girls are expected to act like women, they're done with adolescence, so they should be women now, while teenage boys are stereotyped as being totally wild and out of control: kids, basically. Girls are expected to act like grown women and receive none of the benefits. They shouldn't act like a child and yet every person in their lives treat them like them one. I think this is something Coppola captured beautifully, it still strongly holds up today (even without things that largely contribute to the modern version of this like social media) and I think its part of the reason this movie envelopes its audience the way it does. The average male viewer I don't think can ever quite grapple the true intensity of this movie for that very reason, just like the boys in the movie, they'll never understand the great tribulations of girlhood. Only someone who's been a teenage girl before will understand why the girls killed themselves.
As a teenage girl myself, you put my struggles into words perfectly. It's something that i talk about a lot, but noone other than my teenage girl friends really understand
@@crabbss1762 Hey yOur amazing GOD and Jesus are with you and love you and hear you You mean the world to HIM I promise He just wants to hear from you GOD bless❤️
Cecilia was the elm tree and in her diary, they skipped over the countless pages of her talking about elm trees. that shows they didn't care about her at all. they just cared about the gossip on the other sisters they were not bothered about her interests at all plus even though nature was an interest of hers, i think the elm tree pages was a reflection of herself. how she relates to it. If only they cared enough to read those pages they would've known at least Cecelia's story.
Off topic, but anyone noticed Cecilias distaste at the party? Especially with the way they all crowded and bombarded Joe (Down syndrome neighborhood boy)? She definitely noticed how they joked with Joe in a way to make fun of him, which caused her to turn away from the party.
Immediately picked up on that as it was very relatable. Obviously she wasn't up for a party, she tried to take her life just recently. The disconnection between how you feel and how people around you act can worsen the situation even further, which is exactly what happened
i understand why trip did what he did(most boys like him are after one thing) but it made me so mad, i thought he was good somehow but then he just left her there. he knew her parents were not going to go light on her. i felt so bad for all of the girls. also how did the boys just not understand why they'd kill themselves. there were SO MANY reasons that you didn't even have to search for, they were all right THERE. sofia coppola is a great director.
i completely agree with what you were saying abt trip leaving her there. not only that but he claimed he had felt a love most people dont get to experience. like how could he possibly call this love and then follow it up with "i left her alone in the field, i didn't care how she'd get home"
@@javipaz410 Sorry for taking so long to reply. I meant complicit in that Trip and the guys could have helped by talking to a trusted adult or just listening to the sisters and being supportive. But instead they caused even more harm, failing them like everyone else in their lives. There's a reason Lux set everything up for the guys to find them in the end - because she wanted to show them they were partly responsible for their suffering.
I feel like the parents in the movie represent "purity culture", while the boys see the sisters more like classic "male gaze-y" characters in modern media. There's sort of this push and pull between these deeply misogynistic ideas, both deeply ingrained in western culture and both demaging to young people in general. Not only can the girls not "live up" to either one of these ideals, but their mental health issues are not taken seriously. Even at the beginning the doctor tells the youngest sister that her problems are invalid because of 1. her gender and 2. her age. The bottom line is, girls are never taken seriously: their interests are mocked, their actions are constantly scrutinized, their appearance is scrutanized, they are dehumanized, they are objectified.
I think the film is unrealistic. What western ideas? At the time this film was made, the non- Western world was worse on women. It still is. Rape figures and gender based violence figures are the lowest in the West. "Misogeny" and other such things are lowest in the West. What ideal situation was supposed to be created? What? Should the parents have allowed these girls to have unlimited sex and offered them contraption and abortion? Is that the only way?
I think that’s exactly right. My teenage viewing this was critical of the teenage boys in the film, but quite emphatic of the parents. African American households are usually just as strict as the Lisbon household if not more so, so I honestly never understood the criticism of the parents and it felt ageist. But the parents as symbols of puritanical, patriarchal conformity makes all the sense in the world
what gets me is that instead of just trying to talk to the girls and hear what they had to say about how they were feeling, the boys make it a into a whole “case” as to why everything was happening the way it happened. they make them into this huge mystery when they really weren’t a mystery at all if they just took the time to get to know them.
Lux was so in love with Trip. Trip wanted a "taste". He just wanted to sleep with the hottest girl in school once. I found it depressing when he left her in the morning. This girl lost her sister, gave her virginity away to a person she thought loved her, and was left out in the field, all alone. There was something about Lux that was so relatable. Sometimes people don't care about you, they like the idea of you and are focused on what positive contribution you bring to their lives. There is no "mystery" surrounding their death. Their pain was obvious but the boys (and everyone else in the neighborhood) were too dumb and uninterested to understand. They were being suffocated by not just their parents but everyone around them that kept sexualizing them. They were young children that yearned for love. They were taken advantage of. Thank you for the video essay. I enjoyed it.
When you said it’s like a little secret between every girl, it really hit me that we all live the same reality. And that is that we will never really be seen as people, but rather accessories to men
As beautifully written the book is and dreamy the movie is The Virgin Suicides is pure manic pixie male gaze and I recognize that now that I'm much older than when I first loved the story. These girls were suffering, they were being abused and it all went over looked because ppl could only see them as pretty, objects to play and look at even their own parents didn't treat them as real ppl. They were always objects.
I think that's exactly the message Sofia Coppola was trying to get across, but maybe she wasn't as effective at that as she could have been. There is a Turkish film called "Mustang" (2015) that's a remake of this from the perspective of the girls. It's available to watch free on tubi and I highly recommend it.
ughhhhh Dude, it was through the male gaze on purpose!! The movie was made BY a woman FOR women. Only a girl would notice that it was through the male gaze without being told so. I'm glad you see it, but it wasn't on accident!!
I always interpreted the movie as a commentary about the manic pixie dream girl trope (though it wasn't called that yet I don't think). MPDGs are girls who come into boring men's lives and teach them how to appreciate beauty, culture, art, and life itself. There isn't a woman I know who hasn't wanted to be a MPDG in one way or another. That's what society has always taught girls to be: virginal, demure, and refined, but also passionate, loving, and exciting. The idea of the Lisbon sisters is completely unattainable. I agree that the boys could never truly be in love with them. Like Margot said in Paper Towns (another great commentary on the MPDG trope), "You love me? You don't even know me!" All in all, I love this video. It is very well put together and you have a brilliant mind. Keep going, girlie! 💖
Hi! thank you so much! Yes, the Lisbon sisters do play a role very much of that of an MPDG in the boys lives. They fit into the trope perfectly, as they are incredibly care free, and their love is so out of bounds that they could not live on with the weight of it. i hope to explore more MPDG types. I recently watched "the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind". I recommend you watch it if your interested in the manic pixie dream girl.
@@anuanuuu_ in the novel the go into how bad their hygiene and the realities of 5 girls living in one house means. The movie only hints at it but in the books you see the difference between how the collective narrator sees the girls vs how they really are
@@hombredetacos I've read the book literally a dozen time. unless you see feminine hygiene products/menstration as inherently gross OR depression induced lack of self-care as also gross and not just a symptom, I think you are mistaken sir.
I saw a comment online that said how the trees rotting was a metaphor for the Lisbon sisters, Cecilia was the first “tree” to go, whilst doing so, rotting the other trees ; the Lisbon sisters. There was no way that their lives would continue and eventually in their own way the girls rotted and died. There’s obviously more to it but I thought it was very interesting, your vid was great btw!
What I think is really cool is that the author of the book was really glad a female director was recreating the story; That Sofia Coppola was focusing so much more on the girls, their emotions, and the details of their lives aside from what we learn through the boys.
i really loved this. i think it’s important to mention further that not even the girls own parents saw them as or cared for them as individuals. all they understood was that they were beautiful and desired which made them overly strict parents. they never allowed them to explore their sexuality either. and even cooped up in the house rather than their parents reminding them how beautiful and important individuals they were, or at least giving a decent reason for such punishment, they just found more ways to dehumanize them (like burning the vinyl). you constructed a beautiful analysis though i always knew this movie made me feel a certain type of way but you translated that feeling for me.
It took me a few months after watching the movie to really gather my thoughts. I was shocked at how personal the film was..... despite being so many years older than me. The Lisbon sisters were truly symbols of young girls all over the world: controlled, judged, used, misunderstood, and stunted. thank you for leaving a comment, I didn't comment so much on the parents so I really appreciate your addition!
How were they supposed to "explore their sexuality"? Were they supposed to have lots of sex? Including the 13 year old? Is that really what you mean? And if their parents didn't want them to sleep around until they were over 18, why was this repressive? Most parents around the world are like that. We don't see mass suicide around the world.
@@peterc.1419 "explore their sexuality" doesn't just mean have sex. It means talk about it. It means being permitted to think about it on a deep level. It means being allowed to go out and see if you like who you are with, even if you don't have sex with them. It means masterbation, and it means being made aware of other types of sexual lifestyles. Heck I would even say being allowed to see pictures of naked people (and maybe even watching porn) is part of exploring your sexuality. Girls are often not allowed any of these things. The forced to repress and feel shame merely having sexual desires. They can't speak crudely. Female masterbation is rarely discussed in the mainstream. Because it's all about maintaining purity, and girl having a slight understanding off themselves makes them harder to control.
The first time I watched this movie I was 12 or 13 and I remember the ending pissed me off so much because in my perspective in a way the boys drove them into death with their "love". While they were the only ones who had a sort of idea about the girls' pain as they were closer to them than most, they still never listened to their cries for help and instead continued to sexualize/romanticize them. Thus giving them more reasons to leave.
Personally I see this movie as an experience for teenage white girls. As a teenage girl of color their story isn’t relatable to me. Most teenage girls of color are either HIGHLY sexualized by their families (and grown men) or not seen as beautiful from boys our age, we are only seen as sexual objects. Boys from the same POC community will usually subconsciously prefer white girls since in media and society are seen as more beautiful. I’ve never seen anyone from my community as “the beautiful manic pixie dream girl”. White girls compared to WOC are seen as more feminine and gentle which causes boys our age to see us as more masculine in comparison. Overall I just wish there were more movies showing teenage girls of color as feminine and gentle too.
Yeah like I can’t relate nor can be seen by this movie too, either we are forced to be mature and sexualized or as ugly to everyone around us - another woc
Yes to being sexualized but never desired! The amount of times I've encountered boys that have found me sexually attractive but only talked to white girls is innumerable.
This is always an important thing to add to the conversation. Intersectionality is important. Being a woman and black comes with countless more obstacles
YES OMG!!! WOC are robbed of our femininity. Our own men treat us like crap while they roll out the red carpet for white girls and treat them like princesses. We are forced to mature at a faster rate and can't be dainty as this is a sign of weakness in our community. This topic needs to be more talked about because frankly I'm annoyed with it all.
I was around your age when I watched this movie and now I am 19. This movie still holds the same importance in my life that it did back then. As a daughter of overly strict parents I still relate to the girls so much and it was the first movie that made me cry because I couldn't help but imagine what if I was in their shoes? What would I do? It just broke my heart that they found suicide a way out of that.
This movie had an impact on me in a different way. I was stunned by the aloofness and distance of their parents. While also being suffocating. Nobody cared about them and it shows.
Great video! I'm a 27 year old man who saw this movie for the first time last night and it was fantastic. I'm in that stage of my life where adolescence still feels so close, but the details are becoming more dream-like. Similar to how the boys in the story look back at their teen years. But for you, this is all happening to you right now. Its not nostalgia, its present. Its still real. Its still raw. These are the perspectives people need to see and hear.
this movie is the embodiment of the male gaze. even in dark, traumatizing events for these girls, they were being sexualized. everything they did was seen as being done for the sake of being attractive. they aren’t looked at as humans, but simply pretty pieces of art that purely exist to please men.
I think the reason why I didn't understand why the girls were a mystery was because I knew exactly how they felt and why they did what they did. We girls see through other girls' walls and masks because we've all experienced the atrocities of this world.
cecelia's words really struck a cord. im 25 but i still remember how suffocated i felt at 13 -- not a kid, but not yet a woman, nobody caring enough to even want to understand why im acting out in the first place, so all i did was to resort to whatever made me feel more free, in the most destructive ways.... society and even our families hate teenage girls, i wish they saw them for who they are and not for what they seem. great video essay and great film! and im also happy to read all the comments and to understand the young generation better!
I think what’s important to mention is their mother through the movie, I feel like her being so hell bent on keeping them safe stemmed from her own trauma and in turn smudged out her daughters and created a toxic environment
I watched the movie a few weeks ago and hadnt liked it much. I didn't like the way the sisters were seen more as an idea rather than real people. I'm glad i watched this video, to see that I was right about that, and later to realise that that was exactly what Coppola intended. Thank you for making this video, you explained it really well. Keep up the good work
Personally, I never liked it and believed it was a romanticization and glamorization of suicide and mental illness I felt the same way about 13 reasons why, however you are perfectly aloud to your opinion, this was a very well put together video essay, your points are valid and it was nice to see a different side
@Alexis Underground the movie is beautiful but the book has a ton more context and in my opinion, depth. i don't think the book glamorizes suicide or mental illness but I do see how young girls could take the movie that way.
Since the main perspective is from the boys, the movie is romaticized because they romanticize it. I always saw all the prettyness as something that was ment to be unconfortable and out of place to show how absurd the views on the suffering of women are
@@ziggy6191 "to show how absurd the views on the suffering of women are" holy shit dude. 🤯 your comment, like another one on this thread, I could read pages of. exactly.
I love how passionate you are about this movie. And as a 22-year old watching this I can confirm: You will never be the "perfect" girl or woman, but also, this will be expected of you by many men and boys and they will struggle to see you as a person beyond the image that they have created of you and fail to empathize with you. I still feel torn between being expected to be innocent yet sexy, and it is difficult to free yourself from the male gaze. I don't know if it gets better as you grow older, but the older men I have met didn't give me any hope. I think as a girl or woman, you have no other choice than learn how to cope and always try to make the world a little less unbearable for the girls and women that will follow you in the next generation. Always remember that you are not alone, women and girls all over the world are experiencing this and grappling with this, as you rightly pointed out. I'm impressed that this is your first videoessay, keep up the good work!
i really feel the point you made about the movie having small secrets that only girls would understand. girlhood isn't this pillowy soft time for girls. at the point in the movie when the girls returned to school after cecilias death, the boys continued to sexualize how "strong and brave" they were for coming to school looking unphased after apart of them had literally just been ripped away. everyone knew how close the sisters were yet no one realized when all of them were basically screaming for help. mental health in girls is so downplayed as "oh its just their time of the month" "theyre being a brat" "they're attention seeking". i also kinda feel like the moms motive behind being so overbearing was the idea of the girls being wanted and desired more than she was. jealousy in parental figures is a real thing that many choose to turn a blind eye to.
Hi as a 16 year old girl (who first watched this film when I was 15), and couldn’t get my head around the many theories on the girls inevitable suicide, you really gave an amazing analysis on the male gaze and how the boys loved the girls idealistically. The boys had a lack of pragmatism so the sadness was that even as they grew up they still didn’t acknowledge the trouble of thinking they understood these girls when they were never realistic about how they had a lusting love. The parents also showed a lot of fault and we can see clear signs of neglect after Cecilias death especially through Mrs Lisbon’ actions. it’s also good to notice how when all the girls died the parents abruptly moved on and moved away trying to distance themselves from there daughters memories and trying to forget about them. It reiterates how no one really cared about the Lisbon girls.I really enjoyed this video essay and was happy to hear another 16 year old was also affected by this movie :) and the virgin suicides book is even better with the extra details have you read it? x
Hello! I loved this video, I loved the point you brought up about their rooms being "beautiful messes" and how that fits into this mysterious persona of being a girl. I also noticed during the couple times that I've watched the film how their rooms are essentially these perfect messes, chaos made up of objects that all coincidentally fit the airy, feminine aesthetic. Maybe it's partly a stylistic choice of the film but I also think it covers the whole essence of the sisters and how the boys view them. The tights carelessly hanging over the railing, the pink lipstick left open on the carpet, their environment whispers out "I'm so girly and pretty yet not in a prude, rigid way, I'm carefree, I'm a perfect mess". Definitely has elements of the manic pixie dream girl trope, the appeal of attractive disorder. Lovely video and thoughts, I subscribed and cannot wait for more videos like these ones (I feel like I'm responding to a peer in a Canvas discussion board)!
Beautifully written analysis! When talking about the film sofia coppola said “why can’t people make films for young women that are done with respect and treat them as a serious audience?” I think you hit the nail on the head with this essay! Keep up the great work :)
16?! Great work, keep it up! I was 17 when I first saw this movie (31 now 😩) and it had the same impact on me. I still watch it and show it to others. Can’t wait to see what you do next!
You have such a brilliant voice. I can really tell you have such a passion for the things you talk about. I think the movie is a great warning in terms of how not to treat those struggling with mental illness-whether it's how the parents constrict and isolate the girls and gloss over their issues to look good to the rest of the town, or the boys take every single hint of them just existing as people who've gone through immense trauma as this "dream" to fantasize about, because it's better than processing the trauma of knowing someone who died of suicide. And when you have mental illness, you often feel the need to be destructive in a way that entertains people who find joy in your illness, because it's the one time you feel listened to. I think about every single mentally ill female character I know-and I don't at all think characters like Cassie Ainsworth, Tracy Freeland, Effy Stonem, or the Lisbon sisters are 100% healthy to idolize, but it makes sense to relate to them if you've been through similar experiences. The biggest complaint about them is that teen girls will mimic their behaviors, despite the fact that these characters are all shown to be suffering because the stigma of mental illness causes them to hide their issues. People trying to silence any depiction of us that makes us feel heard is part of the problem.
Yes, i think bringing Cassie and Effy, who are major roles that romanticized troubled girls who struggle with mental health, to the conversation of what TVS teaches us about girlhood is very important. Personally, as a teenage girl, i wanted to be mentally i'll after watching these characters. They made it seem easy, beautiful, and interesting. As I reflect on these feelings I understand how dangerous this is. While these films and shows brought mental health issues to light in an interesting and easy to consume way, the glorification of these illnesses is so detrimental. We meed more representations of mental health in adolescence that are realistic in the media.
i watched this movie for the first time when i was 13 and didn’t understand a thing and just cried. I dont think i ever understood it till i saw it last year, when i was 16, and now 17, it’s still one of my favorites. You did great!! looking forward to ur future vids lol
I totally recommend reading the book, the obsession and delusion is even clearer but it also has a quality that movies can’t quite capture fully. The voice of the book is so present and after watching the movie you appreciate that voice
Sometimes I feel like everyone around me just wants me to be a "manic pixie dream girl" existing solely for their entertainment/convenience and they don't view me as a person who can have flaws and shortcomings. Glad to know I'm not alone ✌
very glad youtube recommended me this video i feel like its super important to keep talking about the male gaze and girlhood portrayed in movies (even twenty years later after the movie came out its still fax). great work !!
Girl as a fan of film commentaries you did an amazing job!!!! Never would have guessed it was your first commentary. Looking forward for your next one❤️
I would NEVER have had the intelligence and insight at 16 to have made this video essay. GREAT JOB. Wonderful analysis, very thought-provoking. And so glad this incredible film is finding a second life with the next gen :)x
I'm so happy this movie is regaining interest, the last time I've checked back in 2018 there were not many video essays out about it and those who were were mostly made by middle aged men. Seeing many women and fem presenting people talk about it is very refreshing, keep it up!
I also watched this movie at 16, all alone at (at the time) my best friend's house while she was gone. Watching this on my own gave me time to really think about it and to really let it soak in, and it certainly left its mark on me, just like you mentioned. This is a great video and a great interpretation of a great movie. I love your take :)
your essay literally put my thoughts into words about the film, when i watched it a year ago! i felt very confused and sad throughout most of the film because i really wanted the lisbon sisters’ perspective, and not what the boys’ thoughts were about them, and i always thought that the dreaminess and lack of dialogue from the girls throughout the whole film felt wrong. i really felt connected to the sisters despite that, especially their home life-being too sheltered and the imposing of religion by their parents (i personally don’t do religion), as a southeast asian. thank you again for expressing my thoughts much better! 💖 (P.S. i love that you also analyzed the lyrics of air’s playground love, always thought that the soundtrack alone was enough for someone to know what the movie’s about!)
so I watched this movie again just now, and Id like to offer my thoughts on why the girls took their lives. the signs were all there, but everyone around them was too selfish and blinded by their own projections of who they thought the girls were, instead of trying to get to know them. The reason for the girl's final decision will of course never be fully understood, but we can piece together the gist of it, if we pay attention. this ended up being quite the little essay, and i cant seem to post it all in one go, so i'll split it up into parts. When Cecelia committed suicide on the day of the party, it seemed to be a reaction to how Joe, the down syndrome boy, was treated by the other kids. He was a spectacle, someone they used for entertainment, a jester at the party, doing tricks. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for Cecilia, she likely saw herself in him. She sees her future in him: as a girl, will be treated the same way, to be used for entertainment, for pleasure, something you bring to a party to show off. After Cecilia's death, the father removes the fence she landed on. maybe it was too painful for him to look at every day, but I think he did it to prevent the other girls from doing the same thing. Instead of confronting the root of the problem (the home situation, how everyone views the girls), he cowardly takes away the thing he fears the girls will use to escape. We can tell he's worried, because he runs into Cecilia's old room, alarmed when the window was wide open. He went to check it, worried another one of his daughters also jumped. Bonnie was there, knowingly what her father was thinking. she said: "don't worry, they took the fence out", in a way that signals she was onto her father's true motives regarding the removal of the fence, which was just to prevent them from doing the same thing Cecilia did. The father: he's a dweeb, a wimp, no backbone loser who lets his wife dictate his life and the man can't even draw a goddamn circle properly on the chalkboard. Note that when Trip asks him for his daughter's hand in going to homecoming, he sheepishly responded he had to "take it up with the wife" first, like a pathetic weak man who can't make his own decisions and needs his wife permission to allow his daughter to simply go to a school dance. He has no idea how to command presence or authority. This is demonstrated well at Cecelia's party scene, when he explains his model to the boys and they quickly lose interest. They literally walk away while he's still talking, which is very disrespectful, especially to the father and owner of the house where they are currently at. But the boys walk away and the man sheepishly continues talking to no one, ignoring how he was just massively disrespected by teenagers in his own house. We see him at his absolute worse in the scene just before he gets fired, when he's mumbling nonsense to himself in the hallway before turning and saying good morning to plants. What's interesting in this scene is that a few people walk by him at the exact moment he decides to turn to the plants, signalling his desire to avoid people, showing that he has completely shut down at this point. instead of saying Hello to the people like a normal, functioning person would do, he turns away from them, avoiding them and talking to the plants instead. His response to the challenge about his girls being absent for 2 weeks was plain and clearly him giving up. "Have you checked out back" is a blatant "fuck you, i don't care anymore" sort of response, the man was utterly broken at this point, wanting to be left alone, desperately doing anything he can to keep his remaining daughters from killing themselves, and not caring what happens to himself in the process. But his attempts at protecting his daughters only further shelter them, only further oppress them. The mother: She is controlling, manipulative, and something just isn't right with her, but we never really see the full story. she places herself in between Lux and Trip during TV night, and she tells Lux to put her feet down, preventing any sort of romantic atmosphere to occur. I'll give her props for handling the press in a good way, shutting the door on them and protecting her family from further exploitation by the media. But her cruel treatment of Lux after the events of the homecoming dance is what solidified her as one of the main reasons why the girls ultimately killed themselves. The father was just not strong enough to have any effect on the home environment, it was the mother who really lead the whole thing, which lead to her daughters and husband's emotional (and in the girls case physical) demise. The boys: you're right they never loved the girls, they loved the idea of them. If there were any other house of 5 daughters in the neighborhood they'd have lusted after them all the same. And they never actually talked to them, not really anyway. Any time we see them together, they're just kinda.. sitting there awkwardly. Even when Trip was invited to watch TV on Sunday with the Lisbon family, they never spoke to each other. Dead air, silence. Maybe he was nervous, or maybe he just didn't care. When the boys finally took them to homecoming, they didn't really talk much either. The girls were excited and chatty at first, gossiping in the backseat about the neighbors, but the boys sat silent and kind of awkwardly tried to join in, but there wasn't much chemistry. Maybe they were nervous, or maybe they expected the girls to do all the work. In any case, the boys expected some awesome lovestory where they are the main characters the girls are only there to love and be loved by them. 1/3
pt 2 The girls literally sent notes to the boys asking for help, for someone to save them. You can't make it any more clear than the messages the boys received. The boys could have tried any number of things to rise to the challenge the girls presented to them. But what did they do instead? They phoned and played a romantic song instead of saying "Hey, what's up" and talking to the girls like real people. The boys were locked into some idealized bubble, a Disney-esque romantic story where the songs woo the girls into falling in love or whatever they were expecting. Instead, the girls got bored with this music thing quickly, Lux appears to lose interest and turn away from the phone; she's over it. Maybe they liked it at first, like it was an intro, an icebreaker, some kind of cute game before they'd finally pick up the phone and start the real conversation. But the girls quickly realized that actually, this was it. The boys had no other plan, they were happy to keep playing music to the girls all day/night long, imagining some romantic, dreamy moment, eternal summer. The boys would rather live in that mental bubble playing songs forever, instead of actually getting to know the girls for who they are (and answering their literal pleas for help). One day when the boys call to play more music, the girls don't answer, and they don't understand why. Maybe the parents figured out what was happening and blocked it, but I believe it's because the girls simply lost interest, they weren't down to play this stupid romantic game with the boys when they were literally asking them for help. Trip: he didn't love Lux, he loved the mystery and the chase, the prize. When it came to actually caring for her, he realized he didn't want to commit and ditched her, alone. The fact that he took her to the football field was not an accident, it's a metaphor for how he ultimately saw Lux, as just another goal to be scored. Lux's shame and hurt by Trip was made worse when her mother forced her to destroy her music, like adding salt to the wound. Music has helped many people through painful situations and breakups, dulling the pain, with relateable lyrics and soothing melodies and whatever. But Lux is forced to endure her breakup with Trip without music; she has to destroy the one source of pain relief she has. The tree: I don't think the girls cared that much about the tree, that was mostly Cecilia's thing. What the girls wanted was to send a message, to show someone, anyone, that they still had some sense of power in their lives. Their already sheltered and oppressed lives were about to be made worse by strange people chopping down the tree on their front lawn. An invasion of their (already oppressive) environment, and they wanted to fight back. I've personally lived in a house before and after the front tree was removed, and it felt weird. It felt exposed. Suddenly, there was much more sky, the whole side of the house that was shaded by the branches and leaves of the tree was suddenly, wide open, like a spotlight shining on us. I can totally see why the girls wouldn't want that to happen to their home, to lose what minimal privacy the tree provided to them. When the TV crew showed up to make a story about this tree and the girls, they went inside and left the tree to it's fate; it simply wasn't worth it at that point. They didn't want any more prying eyes, they didn't want to be made into a story, they got enough of that after what happened to Cecilia. The media: Plastering Cecelia's face on the news as the poster child for some movement to stop suicide. What they don't realize is they can't just fix the problem by "raising awareness" about suicides, and sensationalizing it. this movement is a result of everyone's own selfish desire to feel useful, to feel like they are doing good, that they are solving a problem. But they are making it worse. and that news clip of the girl crying because she accidentally killed her grandmother with poison intended for herself, that was kinda funny lol, in an absurd way. 2/3
pt 3 And the girls themselves: They didn't handle everything in the best way either. Something (maybe a kind of dark personality trait) existed in at least one of the girls, which may have poisoned the others, leading to that final night of their lives. while they did send help messages and answering the phone calls, what did they expect the boys to do? They expected the boys to "save" them from... something. From their oppressive parents I guess, but then why not just run away from home? One of them was 17, she could probably move out and get a job and rent an apartment, like many people do when they are 18, and the other girls could live there too. As far as I can tell, it's not like the parents barred the windows and prevented them from sneaking out at night; we see by the card being placed in the boys bike wheels by one of the girls presumably overnight. Or was this "saving" the girls desired was merely to be treated like a person, to finally be ackowledged and her problems and struggles validated? but these were just boys, they don't have the self awareness or maturity to understand things like this, they are still learning how to be young men themselves, girls are still a mystical creature at their age. I think the girls had a sort of romantic ideal when it came to the boys too. they were also playing music back, but they could have used the phone to talk to the guys at any point too. I think they too were expecting something from the boys, they just weren't as enthusiastic. And of course, the ultimate choice to traumatize the boys that night. Was it planned out from the very first message, or did something snap and the idea came recently? I think, after the suicide of their sister, and the general environment of their home life, the girls were sadly always planning to end their own lives too, but maybe they were still holding onto something, or waiting for the right moment to do it. Could the girls have been saved? Maybe, but, by who? In the way things were setup, in how everyone saw their situation, sadly I don't think there was any way this story would've ended any better. The situation was too fucked up, they were too far gone, the world they lived in was just too uncaring and the disease was spread, the gravity of their final decision simply too strong, pulling everything that direction, there was ultimately no escape from what was to come. But why decide to permanently scar the boys like that? The boys, while naive and a little uncaring to the girls as individuals, they weren't heartless; they did (somewhat) care about them, and didn't deserve what happened to them. We don't see much of the rest of the girls, but something makes me feel like Lux was the ringleader (she seems alittle unhinged) and convinced the other girls to partake and fulfill her (perhaps psychopathic) intentions. Perhaps she was still upset over being ghosted by Trip, of not knowing why he did what he did, and she wanted to pass that pain onto someone else now with her own unexplained disappearance. At the end of the movie, there's some kind of algae growth mixed with the summer heat and it makes the town smell gross and sickly. Which of course fits well with the tragedy that just happened in that neighborhood, a great stench that will forever taint that part of the town. Some rich girl named Alice is having a debutant ball and the boys go to the party to try to forget about the tragedy. Alice's father gives a toast and we can't really hear what he says, but it doesnt matter anyway; the boy's minds are elsewhere. In one of the last scenes in the movie, we see a drunk party goer say "goodbye cruel world" and fall backward into the pool: a mock suicide. As he gets helped out of the pool, he continues the charade, making fun of the struggles which lead to the suicides of the girls: "you don't understand me, im a teeenager, i got problemss!". presumably the other party goers thought it was pretty funny, and that's a great little example of how the people in the town dismiss the girls struggles as not important, as silly teenage problems, and thats why they have such an easy time moving on, while the boys are still hung up on them. All in all there were many factors that lead to why the girls did it, and theres likely a lot more in the movie that i missed, and of course we didn't get the full story, only little glimpses. and sorry for that wall of text lmao
this is such a lovely analysis. I bought the book yesterday and now I cannot wait to read it. I love your personal response, which was really relatable and you speak so eloquently
A great first essay and analysis - first saw this movie when I was 16 / 17 and see now that I was reacting to the girls in the same one-dimensional way as the boys did, only watching it again later has given me that extra, darker and more sobering, perspective.
I always felt that the virgin suicides story was better kept as a book rather then the movie translation, not to say that it was bad, but this definitely made me change my mind a bit about it
I'm a 33 yr old man nd this movie is in my top 3 favorite movies of ever!!!! I love the way u think about this movie for days afterward... Such a lingering movie...
After watching this movie I had no words it’s really depressing but joyful at the same time by joyful I mean that the Lisbon sisters are new with toghter up in the skys
Is hard to truly differentiate what truly goes on in a thirteen year old girls head. It’s different, and unique. When I first watched the movie I felt trapped under the lens of a teenage boys hormonal mindset, and never realised actually how important every aspect of the sisters life’s was to understand why they gave in to their own entrapment and total lack for freedom and social development. But when you think about it… I mean how could they not?
Hi girl ^^ I agree with you a lot and I'm very impressed with your analysis. But I just think you should realize this is not a "universal" girlhood landscape. Better suited titled would be "what a middle class religious *white* girl should be". Girlhood is way broader than that, and as a black latina woman, who been living and studying the multitude of socially constructed traces on womanhood and femininity, I feel safe to say a lot of this expectations and framings places upon the Lisbon girls, and demonstrated by Sofia mostly via aesthetic are not really relatable or part of the reality for girls of a different race and/or socialeconomic status. Despite the undeniably shared experiences and and societal demands of and from women in distinct social and cultural positions, this version of young girlhood, cristian moral set, heterosexual coming of age, middle class teenagehood, and of *white femininity* is a very _narrow and specific_ one, and as intelligent and analitical people we shouldn't keep perpetuating the myth of the white people's landscape as a universal reality, as the oficial realm, like the human experience is defined by white experience and esthetic, and whiteness is synonymous with humanity - this supremacist vision we were thought through our eurocentric academia and by our white owned and made media. I humbly ask you not to take this as petty or unnecessary criticism, but as a good faith observation that in nothing take out of your brilliant work, but invites your to broadening your perspective even more. For the context, I'm a 24 yo Literature, Linguistics and Communication graduate typing from Brazil (so please excuse any mistake made as English is not my first language). I worked with teenagers your age in my training for becoming a teacher, and I'm sure of both, you have a lot to learn and have learned a lot, as your intelligence and dedication is shown in this video. Keep informing yourself and informing us, you're doing a great job. Got yourself a subscriber.
I appreciate your insight. Thank you for giving me this perspective. I do agree this portrayal of girlhood is quite narrow, but i also believe it does illustrate many universal expectations of women that can apply to all races/cultures. Girls being over-sexualized, ignored, trapped from sexual exploration due to the expectation of innocence, and used by fellow male teenagers sexually are things I think women worldwide from all different time periods experience. But yes, many people have commented about the lack of girlhood representation for POC in film and i agree that there needs to be spaces for ALL GIRLS to feel heard and represented. We see a-lot of the white girl middle class, wealthy, and even poor experiences in film but almost none for girls from different racial backgrounds. In 2021, i'm shocked that we are still stuck with stereotypes such as the "sassy latina", "the delicate skinny white girl", and "the tough black girl". These stereotypes are so harmful and continue to support a narrow system of "what a girl should be" in their respective racial and cultural identity and ultimately in their place as the inferior in our society. That was my greater point in the video. Thank you again for this comment, i greatly appreciate this constructive criticism.
Hi! I loved this video!! Im a 17 year old girl and it's really inspiring to see someone my age talk so eloquently about one of my favorite films. I also recently saw the film this January and was very impacted by it. So cool to see your analysis of it and see my thoughts put into words!!
I absolutely love your take on this movie. I wonder if you’re into writing or anything like that because your words, the way you presented your thoughts were incredibly beautiful. Watching this really takes me back to when i was like 14-15 watching this movie for the first time and how i just resonated with everything. I got pretty obsessed with these types of movies after that. Something about innocence lost, girlhood and delicate femininity speaks to my soul. I’m 19 now, i’m obsessed with it still. I’d love to see more of your commentary on films or books anything you’re interested in tbh. Much love ♥️♥️♥️
thank you so much! I actually love writing! I write poetry specifically. Maybe i'll share some of my work on here :). I think the teenage years are the height of girlhood, but the time girls feel least young and innocent. This movie really portrayed that feeling well. I am looking for more films that work with delicate femininity as you mentioned. do you have any recommendations?
@@Rosiewithlove Thank you for replying 💕 i’d be delighted to see some of your work. And i completely agree on what you said about girlhood. I can’t really explain it but if one song were to describe my teenage years, it would be teen idle by marina. About movies on delicate femininity, I recommend sucker punch (2011), amelie (2001), hick (2011), valerie and her week of wonders (1970), dont deliver us from evil (1971), the love witch (2016). These are some of my favorites with the theme of delicate femininity, most of it is rated pg13. My favorite is sucker punch, i recommend you watch the full and uncut version. Most of these movies has sexual content in it so please keep that in mind before you watch it, i wouldn’t want you to feel uncomfortable (and mentions of r*pe too in some). Not so much about delicate femininity but more of adolescence and teenage struggles are ghost world (2001), leon the professional (1994), girl interrupted (1999) and thirteen (2003). I love these movies so much and just had to give them a mention, i thought maybe you’d enjoy them too. I hope you like these movies and maybe talk about them in your future videos. I hope to hear more from you soon💕💕 keep up the great content 💜💜
I'm 24, and I love this movie. The first time I saw it I was probably around 16. Over the years I think I've seen it countless times, and at a certain point- felt like I fully "got" it. Your analysis brought me a perspective I hadn't considered before, even after so many watches. We as the audience are forced to participate in the objectification and flattening of the Lisbons' lives. It's interesting to think about how a girl/woman can watch this movie and simultaneously understand the experience of being a teenage girl while at the same time be "forced" to participate/witness the unrealistic narrative that the boys/men have created...... Maybe I'm thinking too hard now. I absolutely loved the essay ♡
You did a great job! I'm 35 and I've read the book and watched the movie as they were out. I'm really glad you could express so cleverly something that I've always thought. I'm proud of you, keep it up!
Playground Love is one of my favorite songs to ever be written. The carefree feelings of it contrast so harshly with the story and its magical. Also, GREAT VIDEO!
This was so good!! I can't believe that this is your first essay! You are so smart and you perspective AS a teenage girl is so valuable! You made me think about the film in a whole new way and want to re-watch.
i first watched this movie when i was a teenager ( im 22 now) and i fell in love with the soft aesthetic, cinematography and the whole portrayal of sadness. i was really depressed back then so looking back in a i romanticized their sadness (just like the boys did). i watched the film again last year and i saw it in a completely different light, noticing all the things you mentioned. now at 22 i realize how much i identify with the sisters and how suffocated they felt because of the male gaze. loved this video 💕
I also watched this when I was around 15 or 16 and it resonated with me. It still does. I wish I had the courage to put out an analysis video like this when I was your age! Keep up the great work :)
Thank you for making this video essay, this is such a good interpretation. I'm much older than you and first came across this movie in the 00s, but I did a rewatch yesterday and just had to look for an essay about it. You are spot on with the interpretation about how the girls were just symbols to everyone around them, including the boys who were so obsessed with them. Isn't it ironic that despite spending every waking hour observing them, they never actually saw them? The scene in the basement with Bonnie hanging from the ceiling hit me like a tonne of bricks all over again, it's the key scene if you ask me, of how invisible their suffering really was. How they were only meant as pieces of meat to gratify the boys or innocent virginal creatures to live up to the demands of their mother and wider society. Another thing I wondered, Trip is kind of the villain of the film, but who's to say any of the other boys would have behaved differently? Back in the day I was initially drawn to the movie because I had a similarly strict mother and had never seen that whole dynamic play out on film before. The way she locked them up and by trying to keep them safe actually endangered them, because she overdid it. It always irked me a little bit that the story was told from the boys point of view so we will never know the details of what caused it all. But I agree with you, as girls we know, it's like a secret code as you watch the movie, just like you said. I'm happy to see the longevity of the movie and that newer generations are discovering and passing it along.🌸
You are wise beyond your years!! This essay finally helped me understand this film. I never could understand it and now realise that maybe that was the point.
I really loved your video essay! I'm 15 and I too could not sleep thinking about this movie, it really does capture the dreamy elements of girlhood but embodies the way girls are objectified, really makes me think back to my own experiences as a teenager. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the topic!
I remember reading the novel and watching the film a few years ago when i was around 15(?) i found myself simultaneously loving and hating it for everything that we see it as. I think you did a great job with this, you should be proud of yourself♥️
I only read the book but I always felt the town as an alienated community that can't take care of it's own, and everyone in it acts on self interest even when they want to seem like they are helping the Lisbons they ignore them and their grief and all of it gets medialised. Even in their darkest hours, the girls are put on a display. Mrs. Lisbon wants to shelter them from the harsh reality of the outside world but ends up hurting them. I found it very interesting how the boys even as adults dream about the girls and don't question what their responsibility was in what happend to them.
I have tp say as a 27 year old woman myself.. this hit right on the nose... very well executed young miss! Being a girl, being a woman or just being female in general is so so difficult and often times toxic. The way we act and dress and eat etc. is constantly under scrutiny... we are nothing more than livestock in the male gaze... I am not saying all men are as awful... I am fortunate enough that my boyfriend and brothers and sometimes dad is better than most... they're not perfect... but they're better... most girls are trapped in the eyes of sexual desire and scrutiny and unfortunately a lot of them can't break free. We want to be treated as individuals with thoughts and feelings, where they can understand that we too have our own desires and dreams. We just want that freedom... Freedom to be understood, respected and heard... I read this book around the same age as you... probably a bit younger... but what made this so profound was that the Lisbon sister's solution to the ultimate expression of freedom was literally to die... here's a quote from the Witcher I think would for well for this essay from the character Tissaia De Vries: "Sometimes a flower is just a flower, and the best thing it can do for us is to die" I also recommend you look into Nina Simone's poem Black Bird on Spotify... It basically tells the story of the hardships being a black girl... it is very profound and it actually made me cry... but it is up to you.
I'm so afraid that the internet is going to do exactly to you what the world did to these girls in the movie. But at the same time, I'm so glad to hear a young woman using this platform to share your thoughts. You're telling your OWN story and your thoughts. I'm so proud and so inspired by you! And I'm seeing my own girlhood voice through yours. Stay strong, kid. You've got the stuff. I hope you find lots of people who really truly see you and listen to you!
omg palo alto !! i haven’t heard about that in years !! i used to love the book back in like 2014 i would read it every night, also sofia’s sister Gia actually directed the movie!! the coppolas know their shit!!
i’m 15 and i just watched this tonight. i thank u so much for this explanation, i wanted to hear a girl explain it and i think you did it very well. this movie has helped open my eyes more and more to the type of shit women go through.
Im almost 27 years old with a degree in media analysis … it gives me sooooo much hope to see kids so young being so thoughtful and making beautiful essays like this one! You’re slaying!!! Articulating thoughts so well and organizing the video in a cohesive way, way better than what I could do at your age (not to sound too old lol) but thank you for sharing this!!
I would recommend the book to anyone who hasn't read it! I think the boys are bit more self-aware and so there's more commentary on the Peeping-Tomisms and the girls existing to them as a fantasy through the male gaze. Additionally, the book really takes time to cover the deterioration of the house during the girls lock down. Which personally is favorite part of the story, it's such an accurate portrayal of how mental health seeps into a home and dissolves it bit by bit.
Your video popped up on my algorithm and that does not surprise me. This movie came out when I was in high school, when I was a teen. I have seen the movie more time than I can count, especially because once it became available of DVD I bought it and watched it everyday after school for like 6 months. I read the book twice in high and about 4 times in my adulthood. So I am going to be that obnoxious person and say- Read the book. Both the movie and book are great but the book totally supports what you are saying. The movie alludes to it but the book is done in a narrative almost true crime style. We don't know which character is actually narrating, it's actually a composite narrator of like ALL the neighborhood boys, similar to the movie. But instead of having visuals you ONLY have the boys narration to go on. But I think you really nailed one of the largest messages in the book that is often un-mentioned and overlooked in video essays on the subject- these boys DID NOT know the Lisbon girls. They had a very voyeuristic insight to them, they invaded their privacy by trying to piece together who they were from media they consumed, songs they liked, reading their diary, and then by second hand accounts of interactions with them from men that interacted with them briefly either via hooking up with Lux or small talk with one of them in passing. And when you consider the narrators have such a cognitive dissonance with the subject of the story that is where they actually mystery of the Lisbon sisters is. The book's author has said that the use of the Catholic religion is really deliberate being that it's sort of where the whore and Madonna dichotomy came from and the pressures of women in purity culture juxtaposed with new liberal feminist theories on women and agency in the 70s kind of is where we socially had to struggle between ideals of women and the liberation of women. But in all I found the narrative of the story both book and film a celebration of girlhood and femininity. The author once said it was partly inspired by him seeing women as kind of mythical creatures not unlike unicorns that just seemed full of magic lol And Sofia Coppola really leaned into that. Visually she wanted to celebrate girlhood and give it it's own sort of mystical or even religious vibe. The wet clothes hanging, make up scattered, tarot cards next to symbols of The Virgin Mary was all to give the visual of something sort of ethereal or witchy without it being supernatural to really show how out of their depth our narrators were lol but also how magical the feminine is. Timing wise it was after Lilith Fair, after Riot Grrrl, during Britney and before Avril as far a female pop culture goes so it was really radical and different to any commentary one women going on in the media at the time. But it's my favorite book of all time, the Audible narration is the same actor who narrated the movie which makes it just so much more fun. If you liked the movie you will LOVE the book.
I watched the film just a few minutes ago. I've always wanted to see for years it but the title is what makes me hesitant. I watched it and thought what was that. But listening to your explanation, it's become clear to me how right and ahead of her time the writer is. Thank you. You're very intelligent.
hey, im a dude so i cant relate directly but i am still fascinated by this story and these girls, my own interest is a kind of a strange reflection of the boys in the story. the suicides of these girls and the movie itself has such a loftiness/dreamy, even romantic? vibe to it. which is sick, we are romanticizing the suicides of girls who were in pain and took their own life for reasons that will ultimately never be known. this morbid glamor to the girls suicides is what intrigues me. a sick nostalgia for the death of the girls and those few short years they existed at school for the boys to be distracted by at school.
Watching this movie when I was thirteen was certainly a good decision. I think it’s so amazing to see how girls naturally understand the movie without overthinking it, while men hardly get the message behind the film. Amazing video essay, you seem to be a really cool person!
sofia coppola's movies are always so aesthetically pleasing, this movie, "marie antoinette", "lost in translation" and many others look really soft and the color patterns are so pretty
The fact that nobody in the novel/movie stopped to think about how they thought and treated the sisters affected them bewilders me... like... I understand they were still boys back then, but once they looked back, why did they NEVER question their own actions?
watched this movie for the first time when I was 13. I'm 15 now and I still think about it all the time. I love seeing it become more poplar and i love your take on it.
