I can see that. I've always believed #4 buck was probably the most appropriate. 00 could conceivably harm or kill a neighbor if you in an urban setting.
Few years back the Feds did a comparative study of defensive shotgun loads and concluded that the best load, in their results, was to use nickel-plated #4 buck, like you can still get from Fiocchi in a 27-pellet, 2-3/4" load going 1325 fps. Jus' sayin.
Paul Harrell has an excellent series of shotgun rounds for home defense (in particular the issue of over penetration). I highly recommend checking them out.
Yeah, his vids got me to try #4 buck for a home defense load as well. Sadly, Paul has pancreatic cancer. He just recently introduced his brother (Roy) who will be taking over the channel.
Never ceases to amaze me why someone would want such a tight pattern for home defense. Use a slug or a rifle if that's what you want. The BEST characteristic of a shotgun is its big, forgiving pattern in a self defense situation. I find a six inch pattern at 7 yards is ideal for home defense #00.
It’s about accountability. All the pellets should go in the bad guy. A tighter pattern is more forgiving to less than perfect aim. Plus tighter patterns tend to perform better terminally.
That big, forgiving pattern becomes a liability with a less-than-perfect shot, increasing probability of pellets hitting something other than your intended target. And consider the potential of hostage shot involving your spouse or child, and all you have is your shotgun with that wide patterning buckshot in it. You taking that shot?
Shotguns, even with no choke constriction at all, shoot much tighter patterns with buckshot at close ranges than the vast majority of people think. As a result, you can't just blindly point a shotgun in the general direction of a threat and fire away; you actually NEED to aim a shotgun due to how generally tight the pattern is at close up distances. I've pattern defensive shotguns with 14 inch up to 24 inch cylinder bore barrels at distances up to 15m (A very far distance vs the average distance in a typical home) and every single pellet of regular non buffered or plated 00 buckshot would stay well within a 10 inch circle at that distance. This is why patterning your shotgun at the average and maximum distance within your home is so cruicial.
Several years ago the Federal Government tested various shotgun loads to determine the "best" load for self defense purposes for Federal agencies to use. Their conclusion, if you think they knew what they were doing, was that in all the various conditions a shotgun could be used in an armed incident was to use a 27-pellet, #4 nickel-plated buckshot at 1325fps. load. Fiocchi makes this exact loading in 10-round boxes if you'd like to get some for use. I've had that load in my SD shotty for a long time. Luckily I've never needed to test its effectiveness, but I feel confident it would easily do the job.
#1 buckshot for home defense. I live in a house in an urban area. I also want to limit interior wall penetration. The blast itself from a 12 gauge is very discouraging to anyone on the receiving end.
Got to get the other parts of tactical training in order brother. Running with a plate carrier. Climbing . Getting the lungs and blood moving. Gotta be able to finish the fight. Health is something you cannot buy back. God bless. Take care
I guess people like a pump shotgun for home defense because of the intimidating rack sound but I like my semiauto. As far as buckshot, what ever you’re using will work just fine.
i started out using federal 00 buck...dropped down to #1 buck ( more pellets ) very little loss of power. my longest shot (inside my house ) is about 25 feet. i've gotten a very good spread with #4 buck Federal ammo also.
I like the federal flight control loads best BUT I load my A300UP up with Hornady Critical Defense. 1. It's easier to find. 2. It patterns damn near just as tight as FC in my shotgun at applicable HD distances (15 yards and in) 3. I prefer the 1600fps rating in a semi-auto (just for peace of mind), although I've never had any cycling issues with the lower velocity federal loads.
Everyone is different with preferences, but, the majority like those because of the "pattern". Basically a single hole. My thinking is, most home defense with a shotgun, are at very close range, + a little spread with buckshot, like the Hornady CD, is better, especially in a high stress situation....... More forgiving in aim, just in case, assuring a better hit chance. Not that hitting anything with a shotgun is hard, but, easier with buckshot with a bit of a spread, opposed to buckshot with little to no spread, that's more like a slug pattern. So many factors + tastes though. So, it's just my 2 cents........ Nice video + info. Thank you. Have a happy + safe 4th of July. 👍
Know the areas and dimensions of where you are defending. 00 will do the trick. There are Defender loads with Buck and ball. I prefer #4 Buck. More pellets. At 10 yards it will eviscerated an intruder.
An interesting half fast comparison of different brands of double O buck shot rounds. However, home defense engagements are more on the order of seven feet, not yards. At seven feet there should be no difference between the different brands or pellet size. IF the engagement range is seven to 10 yards, choose an ammunition that has the pellets in a plastic sleeve (preferably with the pellets packed in a powdered plastic) to minimize the deformation of the pellets as they pass down the barrel. This produces more consistent patterns with fewer fliers. As for shot size, number 4 buck (27 - 20 grain pellets in a 12 gauge load vs 9 - 60 grain pellets in the OO buck) greatly increases the probability of a hit at ranges out to about 50 yards with little loss in effectiveness per hit.
The Federal FliteControl is amazing. It also requires the aim of a rifle. To my mind, that offsets the usefulness of using a blaster. I can do that with a 223 or a 300 as effectively without 2~3 times the cost. Don't get me wrong; I have 3 590s, but apples to apples, it needs to be within 20 yards. And I have every ultra law enforcement round made for this stuff. If you have time for a well placed shot, well, a shotgun wouldn't be my choice
Versa-tite / Flight Control wad is best with cylinder bore some have argued improved cylinder. A tight choke will strip the wad from the buckshot early defeating the design and purpose.
Depends. My particular 1301 doesn’t pattern the Hornady any better than Fiocchi Defense. The Flite Control LE133 patterns similar to the PD132NRA 9 pellet. On the surface that 9 pellet load is the same as the LE132, but my gun doesn’t like the LE132 as much. Yup. It’s perplexing.
Really good comparison! You used 3 of 4 the shotshells I'm considering. I wish you had included the Federal Vital-Shok as well and it's available with Flight Control and regular wads. I'm surprised at how well the Federal Power-Shok performed and a little disappointed with the Hornady Critical Defense as it usually performs well in tests and the 8-pellet load is supposed to help prevent flyers. The performance of the Federal Flight Control was no surprise at all. How do you think the Federal Power-Shok #4 buckshot would do compared to the 00?
Any of those loads would work well for outside the house say if they are out in your front yard, inside the house may I suggest the Federal OO Short Shell, plenty of power for defense indoors.
Short shells have fragmenting 00 shot. They fail the pentitration test. Shorty 4 buck however, gets to 11 inches in gel thru 4 layers of heavy denim. See demonstrated concepts youtube channel on shorty shells
Come on Jeff man up! I own exactly the same gun, I am 6ft tall 230 lbs and I can shoot my gun for hours and never complain about recoil. Hey what about Glazer Safety Slugs best for inside a house has HUGE stopping power less likely to kill your wife and kids because it doesn't go through interior walls as well as it stops a large human.
I have always heard #4 buckshot is the best. Still, it's hard to argue with the results of 00 buck, if you hit your target. If you miss, 00 is said to be prone to overpenetration.
Federal with flight control HV 00 buck is hard to beat. Even 20 yards has a great pattern keeps in the vitals. At 10 yards makes a hole not much bigger than a 1oz foster slug. Great shotgun load!
Whatever happened to Winchester Ranger 00 Buckshot??? They had an 8 pellet load and a 9 pellet load, both low recoil... Remington Law Enforcement 00 Buckshot??? It was low recoil as well... And Remington's TAC 8 00 Buckshot... It came in a low velocity and high velocity...
For what that buck shot is doing you might as well used a slug load! Close range buck shot I want a six inch spread out of a cylinder barrel of my mossberg maverick 24 inch barrel! 👍💪🇬🇧🏴
I have never ever seen flight control on the shelves in any gun shop in the Orlando area. I even asked yesterday when I bought my New Beretta A300 and the guy said they never have them and Im Not the first to ask for them.
The 8 pellet they were shooting here is LE133, and it’s extremely hard to find right now. 9 pellet is easier, the law enforcement version is LE132 in low recoil, and LE127 in standard velocity. However, I did find some PD132NRA at the local farm stores that the same LR 9 pellet load, but it is not marked Flite Control on the box. Online is your best bet.
Federal Flight Control is great for hunting, horrible for home defense, if you want it that tight at that range just use a slug. Most people will never fire more than 5 to about max of 10 yards inside a house, and even 10 yards will be very rare, average room in not even 20 feet across and 10 yards is 30 feet... so use a slug or something with a bit of spread at close range.
count on the bad guy wearing body armor! a head and groin shot may be needed! more bb's are better, and a wider pattern! should work well for home defense. gun? remington v3-13 semi auto 12ga 14" barrel 4 rounds $1k
Got to be careful when using a shotgun for home defense. Factor in How many people live in your house and where are the in the house. Also , will the chosen round penetrate walls if you miss. Close quarters defense with #4 shot will pack a punch without over penetration. Now having no extra residents , is another story. My situation is ideal with an upstairs bedroom that overlooks the main living area and stairs leading up to my vantage point. My 870 has #4 buck with a slug in the third position. Devastating incorporated!
so can anyone tell me why I don't want my shot to spread in my home when im trying to take someone down in the heat of the moment.... ????? I mean.... if I know what's behind what im shooting........ why wouldn't I want my shot to spread ??? I get wanting it to all hit the same spot.... but why would you buck shot..... just use a slug if you don't want spread????? just wondering
A tight patterning buckshot does not perform in nearly the same way a slug does. A slug being a heavy and relatively slow projectile will carry through a LOT of barriers before finally coming to a stop. As for the idea of the pattern, you are accountable for every shot you fire, which includes each individual pellet. Sending pellets off into every direction is irresponsible, not to mention dangerous. A tight patterning buckshot gives you the control to make a proper shot, mixed with the fight stopping capability of buckshot and without the worry of excessive penitration like a slug
Kind of annoys me how biased you were on Hornadys. Stars and Stripes performed similar yet you gave Hornady way more leeway and chances to perform better. Bad science
Basing the pellet pattern with one shot is idiotic because the pattern may vary from one shot to another, so multiple shots would be more statistical be correct in trying estimated the overall pellet patterns. In home defense the distances would be close and a tight pellet pattern will more or less perform like a slug, you might as well use a turkey load.
"Stop" is a broad term. Will it cause a fatal wound? Beyond a few feet, probably not. Will a sane person retreat from the pain? Well it's entirely possible. Of course the kind of person who is breaking into your home usually aren't completely sane people. That is why we use a round like 00 buckshot because it will perform in a way that will adequately stop a threat assuming you do your part
A lot of you guys keep talking about all the different fancy dancy shotgun loads. Problem is, those rounds are really hard to find and they are really expensive. Rio Royal Buck 12 Gauge 2.75” 9 pellets 00 Buck 25 shells about $20.00. This stuff at 40 yards and closer (40 is the longest I can shoot at my range) patterns great and is very accurate from my Winchester Model 1300 defender. This is a 7 plus 1 shotgun but this ammo isn’t always made to accurate specs it’s usually a fraction longer so 6 plus 1 is the norm. I’m not sure how well it would perform in a semiautomatic shotgun. No problem with my pump.
Forgot to mention I have the exact same shotgun. Just added a magazine extension from Choate Machine and Tool. I can get 9 + 1 with the Rio ammo (not exact specs) can hold 10 + 1 with spec ammo. With 9 in the tube 3 shells can be 3 inch.
How do you justify shooting one round of various types of ammo at different distances to predict patterns? You’ve got to be kidding me! This is a joke and a waste of time.
