I bought second hand, replacing my 15yo Trek. managed to get a great deal on a 1 year old manufacturer serviced bike with 105 Di2 for less than half the list price. Theres absolutely no way I could justify buying new at todays prices.
In the end ... the customer has the power to just say "no, i wont buy it!" .. but that requires the customer to be honest to himself and reflect on his actual needs .. vs. his desires. It is ... after all .. like the smartphone game. Every year .. customers are suggested to NEED the new, but oddly identical slab of glass and metal. Meanwhile .. 99% of the people who commit to this ... lets call it a scam ... do nothing with their item that they could not do the very same way .. on their 5 year old phone. If cyclists were honest to themselves (that is hobby cyclists or amateurs) .. i doubt they need the latest stuff at all. It wont significantly improve their power or timings. If they DO get the latest stuff .. they WILL swear that it does make a difference of course .. it is buyers remorse - no one wants to buy a 10k bike and admit that .. oh, actually, nothing changed. So by and large .. its up to the customers to show restraint. Force the retailers and manufacturers to either lower prices and have slimmer profit margins, innovate better manufacturing and logistics to allow better profit margins .. or go bust. The risk for customers might well be .. that some good and innovative brands will go bust and vanish .. because not everyone is capable to optimize their manufacturing.
I would suggest looking at the second hand market. Bought my first carbon bike (2022 Orbea Orca) with carbon wheels, integrated cockpit and electronic SRAM shifting for about 2400€ (service included).
💯 the correct answer. They mainly charge us these prices because we keep accepting to pay for these ridiculous markups. High-end bicycles are priced disproportionately high not because of production costs, but because manufacturers take advantage of consumers willing to pay stupid prices. Let’s compare bikes to motorcycles. High-end bicycles are not expensive due to production costs but because manufacturers capitalize on consumers willing to pay premium prices. Brands like Trek, Giant and Specialized mass-produce bikes in Taiwan with efficient, automated processes, despite marketing them as highly specialized or custom-built. Incremental improvements in weight or gear performance are positioned as essential, but they don’t come close to the complexity of motorcycles, which feature advanced technologies like ABS, fuel injection, and ride-by-wire systems. The real difference lies in consumer behavior and industry dynamics. Motorcycle prices are kept in check by competition and practical buyer expectations, leading to slimmer margins (around 10-15%). On the other hand, bicycles thrive in a “passion economy” where emotional attachment and lifestyle branding allow companies to apply massive markups, often exceeding 30-50%. Fragmented supply chains and outsourced components further inflate prices, but because cyclists keep buying, manufacturers keep charging. So simple solution, stop buying them at these prices.
The thing is, the latest high tech sexy looking bikes are what people want. Go for a group ride and there will regularly be people showing off their new expensive bike and everyone else admiring and discussing it. It feels good and we enjoy it. Group think is self perpetuating.
@@shred3005 Unless of course you left a warped group who deliberately don't acknowledge your new bike, despite you acknowledging theirs only months before. I left a cycling club because it was full of the most jealous and spiteful people you could ever meet. And the new bike was the least of it.
Do you want to know what Olympians Connie Carpenter, Davis Phinney, frame builders Bill Davidson, Angel Rodriguez, Ben Serotta, recommended to me in 1977-1978? DO NOT RIDE OR BUILD A RACING FRAME! Ride a comfortable touring frame or do everything frame and just ride everywhere, that's the best training. RIDE.
Don’t know about the UK, but in the US the same car model gets larger and more expensive every year. No actual reason for it. It’s just to fleece the buyers. Of course, that’s why the ubiquitous car advertisements are not really about getting to Point B from A, , but about telling the viewer how good they will feel as they go from home to office in the Super Duty truck.
In Australia we don't even have to have the vehicles increase in size. Basic bracket creep means that cars not previously considered luxury have breached the price threshold imposed by the Fed Gov't and subsequently attract a 30% tax on the retail price. The threshold is about $73k imposed in the year 2000. Despite inflation there has been no review of that threshold so more cars are increasing in price purely on the basis of a dollar value that then blows out by 30% irrespective of the fact they do not classify as luxury cars.
@@Bodkin_Ye_Pointy Customers have shown that they are willing to pay retail+30%. Do you really think manufacturers won't just increase prices if your brackets were adjusted???
if you dont mind buying a used bike, 500 can already get you a nice rimbrake bike, or maybe decent discbrake bike with aluminum/steel frame. then you can end up with a bike with good equipment overall after you upgrade to 1500 mark vs buying a new bike with stock parts
"bikes are too expensive," says the crew that ride superbikes, I assume they are gifted/sponsored - don't get me wrong I love what you guys are doing, great channel, but part of this issue is that top-end bikes are shown as the "normal" through things like the sponsorship of influencers (yes, I'm sorry you guys are influencers too). You guys do. a very good job of telling us that you don't need to ride top-end bikes, but you still ride top-end bikes- "do as I say not as I do". This is not a complaint, just an observation - I get it, the sponsors give money to allow the channel to operate, which I'm all for - but it's a tricky situation, one that I don't have an answer too. Keep up the good work, and let's be honest if I were given a super bike I'd ride it and tell everyone how good it was too! Carry on.
Very accurate. Also I would like to add that the fact that they are all sponsored doesn't allow them to acknowledge the steep price. If the guys here were left only with their paycheck they would also be pissed to pay 700bucks for a 8speed 11kg bike.
Not everyone needs to. These guys are ex pros! lol It's also their job to sell products that keep them in a job. Just as they don't almost ever talk about buying second hand. Why? Because that doesn't benefit sponsors of the channel. Stop being so bloody critical of marketing and ignorant of how it works. It's like bitching about a private healthcare sales person trying to get you to buy private healthcare when there is a free public system for health. Everyone's different. Everyone needs different things. They probably don't think bikes are too expensive...but are doing a show that reflects the feelings of the general public. SMH
I have noticed they do mention the price of their bikes a bit - I think Simon mentioned that commuting on his $10,000 Superbike was overkill, but also so much fun, he also acknowledged that he was lucky enough to have been given such a nice bike), and the others have done similar too. I do think they do a good job of riding nice bikes and being real about the privilege of sponsors /free bikes...
@@out_spocken yes, agree in that sense. I've been watching the Chanel for years but RU-vid is still a community and it allows us to discuss about when they are wrong. The thing that really pushes my buttons is the title of the video. "What can we do about it?" More like "You guys are delusional every is because of innovation and inflation and is absolutely reasonable" when it isn't. The solution really will be buying form the Chinese market if they In a couple of years if you want something new at least when talking about groupsets. I don't know about you but hyping Cues (not from these guys but as a whole) for more than a year now and getting nothing is really disappointing and I doubt Shimano will be able to at least partially match the prices the Chinese offer.
Mechanical shifting and mechanical disc brake options that are more widely available should be provided to offer bicycles at a lower cost to the consumer. I've been an avid cyclist since 2015 and have yet to ride an electronically shifted bike with hydraulic brakes. My first real road bike has ~28,000 miles on it and is doing just fine.
@wspmjw same here. They like inventing these so called upgrades that we dont need just to make money. I guess its a bussiness,but just be honest with consumers and not try to justify disc breaks or electronic shifting as it will make u a better rider.
Problem with the used market is that the high prices of the new market then make sellers believe they can still get max dollars for their used bike so really the used market isn't that affordable. I'd love to buy used, but for the price difference, I'll just stick with new and get a warranty and possibly newer tech.
@@JeromeebThere's lots of 100-200 dollar garbage bikes for sale in DMV. But everybody with an sl7 or previous gen madone thinks that just because they paid 13k a few years ago it's still worth 12k.
@@Jeromeeb I just recently checked for a friend and was astonished as to how many bikes were offered for like 200€ off of a new - but they already were two or even more years old. Really weird!
It's all about demand, I find the whole situation weird, ppl are saying how the bike industry is screwed, stuff is not selling and whatnot and then I try to buy a new Aeroad CF SLX and it's like they are all sold out in common sizes, especially M. So I set up a bot to get instant notification when it's available and turns out, the stuff sells like hot cakes, literally new batch sells out in few hours. And then have fun waiting months for new one or sniping those orders that got cancelled. So this complaining and asking what to do about expensive bikes... well answer is nothing, there is even now a big demand for it, so it is not going to get cheaper.
@@FliskerX You're spot on. Bike prices aren't going to stop rising until people stop buying expensive bikes. It sucks but unless there's a huge technology change that massively decreases production costs and increases supply (I don't know automated carbon layup or something), prices will stay high.
I bought a Giant Contend AR1 in Feb for under £1500. It’s on sale online for £1,329.30 today. Really nice bike, under 10 kg. Shimano 11x2, hydraulic disks etc. I’m sure I could have paid 10x more to lose a few kg but I could do the same by eating a bit less!
I couldn’t find that bike in my area or online. Had to buy the Contend AR3 with Sora and mech disc. I installed a bendy Chinese full carbon seat post from ebay, a like new set of Giant SLR1 carbon wheels for cheap and some tubeless Conti GP5000 tires. Great bike and rides like a dream now. The stock Giant tires are really bad. Love my cheap bike just over 9 kilos.
I left the bike industry in 2007. The most expensive bikes I remember were like 12k. It’s been almost 20 years. Now they are 20k. That’s how time works. I’m confused about the uproar. Expensive bikes have always been expensive.
Cycling has gotten to the point where everyone wants to have the latest model and it's become like the iPhone. You have to have the latest but it's really pretty much the same. It's all marketing, but that demand allows the industry to maintain that price point for their latest stuff. I've gotten over that. I've sold off all my modern carbon road bikes, but one 2018 Giant TCR Maglia Rosa mechanical/rim brake bike. I've gone to more classic shaped steel and titanium builds for my daily riders. They're not the lightest or most aero but they look good, ride smooth, are timeless, and just work. I've found that the new stuff is nice, but not necessary. It's saving me a ton of money.
@@gregknipe8772 I'm just saying I'm not chasing the latest greatest anymore. I'm sticking to bikes I already have that I love to ride, which so happen to be the classic double triangle. I have carbon, steel, titanium, and aluminum frames, I'm just not getting anything else moving forward. I'm not chasing the latest anymore. I'm not saying I'm back to the basics, I'm saying I don't need to move forward because it's been all the same lately. I already have the bikes that work for me.
@@charliedillon1400 the material is super expensive, but compared to all that aero everything and marginal gains games, titanium bikes are timeless aswell as steel and have a nice "I dont care" attitude
If you’re not a pro, don’t buy pro-level equipment. Mechanical shifters, rim brakes, older technology, with a slightly higher weight are ok for the majority of us. Look for a good deal on a use bike close to what you want. Build and/or upgrade your own bike.
I've always thought that electronic shifting is a solution looking for a problem. And the people I ride with who have tubeless more often than not end up very frustrated with punctures and the inability of dealing with them easily. Give me mechanical shifters and tubes!
I learned the other day that electronic shifters are beneficial for people who have arthritis in their hands. They have a hard time pushing the shifter to change gears. But overall, I agree, mechanical shifters and brakes are perfectly well for the majority of people. And yes, I will stick with tubes until there is a less messy tubeless option.
@@davezzzz172 electronic groupsets are for people who can't or won't learn how to index their derailleur properly. I learned to do it just by watching youtube videos in less than half a day.
@@erins9271 tubeless in road bicycles are unnecessary, just like electronic groupsets, unless they make it cheaper, more convenient, and easier to install than tires with inner tubes.
I hate to brag, but it is not the first time there is a back to back winner in Caption Competition. I won in episodes 435 and 436... Nevertheless, cracking caption, again!! And welcome to the club of back2back winners!! It was getting a bit lonely...
Yeah, you should buy used... Maybe we could start a company for good second hand bikes. Maybe in Colorado. Call it the Pro's Closet? I checked, and I think the URL should be available soon.
In 2016 I bought a first gen aero Trek Madone and after the usual additional things i needed (Seat, pedals, water bottles, tires, etc) the price was about $15,000. This year, after crashing my latest BMC and receiving insurance money (yes homeowners insurance covers that!), I bought a 2024 BMC SLR 01 at about the same cost. I'm not sure what anyone is talking about. If you are buying a superbike, the price hasn't changed in the last 8 years. More importantly, when was the time in history when everything was priced just right? 1915? 1950? 1990? 2002? It's called inflation folks, and it's been happening forever. Did people in 1972 say "wow, everything is priced just right!" No, they complained everything was too expensive. I'm fairly certain the ancient Egyptians were complaining of the rising prices of rocks to make "these damn pyramids." Frankly, 8 years ago, I couldn't buy a very nice carbon frame with 105 Di2 on it (which is very reasonably priced and works really well). Trickle down tech has made the options for more affordable bikes better than ever. Here's what is really happening... many of the cyclist watching this show are getting older. When you get old you think that everything is too expensive and the world is falling apart. Ask a 25 year old if the world is falling apart and things are too expensive - they wouldn't know what you are talking about. If only it were 1987, when everything was priced just perfectly!
In 1976 my Carlton Pro with Campag record cost 11 x a working mans wage, a good tradie makes about 1400 ~1500 a week so 16000 ish in todays money seems about the same historically, 50 years later
This would actually get new riders into the sport, and a few years later they'll want a more expensive bike. The brands need to figure out the next generation of buyers. The old rich guys are dying off.
@@charliedillon1400 100%, it’s stupid how much research I had to do to get a decent first bike second hand because anything new was completely out of reach
I live down miles and miles of gravel roads. It's annoying and the dust gets everywhere but it's beautiful out here. I've always thought I was just riding my bike down the roads. I never knew it had a spirit.
And there is a certain feel of doing a good thing for the environment taking care of what you got. (This coming from a guy changing bike every two years, for many years) 😅
The MUFF was a hack because someone with a very creative sense of humor got you to talk about it for 5 minutes and since that was their objective, it’s a hack. Well done!
I am still in shock they read the ridiculous copy, as written, like Ron Burgundy on a teleprompter. The slow zoom as Si falls apart is where I lost it.
Nobody wants to buy a new alloy rim brake road bike in 2024. The same commenters insisting they would buy one, in one breath, are saying they only ride old tech, in the next breath. Those guys aren’t buying new bikes regardless of the cost or tech involved.
Just keep your bike as long as possible and avoid to buy a new one... And if you're not puting more than 4 W/kg at FTP, the difference is fairly minimal between an 10 years old top of the line bike (which were already very good if well maintained) and a brand new top of the line bike... Marketing will always say new is better, but it's not.
I totally agree. Some people just have to have the newest stuff. After all cycling is the new golf. I am closer to 5W/kg and my Colnago C40 with modern drivetrain and wheels is not any slower than my Dogma F10. The only difference is less stiffness in descending than I prefer. And in real world tests, my C40 is usually just .2-.3 mph slower than my F10. Yes, a 1/4 of a MPH.
This may be off topic to the vid but I wanted to mention it anyway. In my (year 10) geography class we were doing about transport in London and how to reduce congestion. Anyway, once we completed the task we learned about what "London" actually did, they installed the Elizabeth line for 19 BILLION pounds. They compared this to what could have been made (which was a cyclist overpass). Nobody in my class, apart from me 😂, said this bike route was a good idea. They actually said it was overpriced whilst coating 200 million pounds. Obviously much less than the Elisabeth line. My class said the Elizabeth line was worth it!!! As a cyclists and avid gcn viewer I thought I would leave a comment. This also shows that even in the new generation the cars>bikes mentality is a problem. I was wondering what gcn's thoughts on this would be? Ps if you read all of this, kudos.
On the other side of the ocean, the Premier of Ontario, Canada, Doug Ford, has proposed building a tunnel underneath Highway 401, a *16 lane highway,* greenlit the construction of Highway 413, a ring road intended to "help reduce congestion" (never mind that developers associated with Ford and his ilk have properties that stand to jump in valuation once the highway is completed), and is currently trying to push for the removal of cycle lanes in downtown Toronto. Meanwhile, the GO Train transit system, which moves *thousands more people,* but is hampered by limited scheduling/lack of priority on rails, still operates at a fraction of its possible potential because this province can't fathom people not driving to where they need to go.
Actually I would say both of them are good. Bikes and trains are companion and they can be used in mixed transport mode. Sometimes you want to get somewhere that it's hard to just cycle to like for example from Farringdon to Reading, cycling is good for connecting purposes. Even in Netherlands people often use bikes and trains together. (Although they have better bike storage on the train when compared to our IET/Class 345)
They're both good. Elizabeth Line (yes, I've had to stop calling it CrossRail as nobody remembers that) was needed and has been very much more successful than even the most optimistic projections. We need more lines like it as well as upgraded tube lines with cleaner air, more trains per minute, more capacity. Pound for pound, Elizabeth Line is very well worth it to London and the whole UK economy. I used to cycle at speed from Reading to Oxford Circus, later from East Ham to City, West End, Earls Court, and elsewhere in London every day. Back then, there were very few bikes. Try it now and it's much slower because there are so many bikes (50 per traffic light in rush hour! If all the folk who use Elizabeth Line were on bikes, we couldn't move for bikes, even if no cars at all. Now, as a pensioner, I walk the 8 to 10 miles to, eg, Earls Court, or take train (Elizabeth Line is so fast) from Woolwich then change to Tube. I don't cycle due to the vast numbers of cyclists who make cycling both slow and dangerous as they ignore Highway Code. And we need more and better cycle routes, perhaps on disused railway lines along with a Dutch style rethink of everything related to moving about London. £200 million is almost lost in the roundings for something like Elizabeth Line so they come out of different funding streams and decision models
I just bought a used road bike 3 mos ago off Buycycle from a seller in Italy for $1475, and it turned out to be the best bike purchase of my life. It's a 54 cm 2019 rim brake Giant TCR Advanced 1 with Ultegra R8000 groupset and 62 cm DTSwiss Arc 1100 wheels. He even included Elite bottle cages, Look Keo 2 Max pedals, and the bike owners manual. I used the free international shipping promo code to deliver to Chicago, and the total with tax came out to $1610 USD. The bike is in perfect condition and I'm 52 y.o. I don't need a power meter, electronic groupset, integrated cabling, and hydraulic disk brakes!
That's a great deal! I just built up a 2009 Wilier Cento frameset from eBay ($400) with Ultegra R8000 mechanical/rim brake 11sp group and Shimano RS wheels for about $1,500 total, all in. Dream bike, sub 18lbs and super comfortable. These new bikes are a joke, I love dropping them on group rides.
@@charliedillon1400 Yep, my bike is 16.75 lbs and I live along the lakefront, which has 20 miles of paved bike trail. I'm racing 30 y.o's with their disk bikes for a fraction of the price. I get looks and compliments all the time!
dishonest comparison, man. Honda CBR600RR is not the fastest tier motor bike you can buy, a Kawasaki H2R retailing for $57,500 would blow your Honda example out of the water, whereas no one is blowing you out of the water if you have a truly top end $12-15000 road bike. Ducati Superleggera V4, a limited-production lightweight all-carbon superbike, production run of just 500 units, 200mph, and MSRP was $100,000.
@@adamolig3865 "no one is blowing you out of the water if you have a truly top end $12-15000 road bike" Saturday morning group ride says otherwise, lol! A pro rider can drop everybody on a twenty year old bike.
As a relatively new addition to the cycling community, the problem from my point of view has always been optics. Yes, Dan and Si are correct that people do not expect to be able to afford top end luxury or racing motorbikes and cars, but neither are they sold the top end motorbikes and cars on a seemingly regular basis by the manufacturers. Has anyone ever seen a BMW motorbike ad for their motogp bike? Or had Mercedes sponsor youtube channels to sell their F1 cars? All the marketing goes into the top end bikes and the aluminium or lower end carbon bikes hardly ever see the light of day. That makes those bikes seem like they're only for the beginners or the ones who can't afford the "real" bikes. Part of the responsibility for that mindset is on the consumer but it's also what's being marketed. It also doesn't help that during the pandemic brands like specialized added thousands to the price of their S-works sl-7 and never brought it back down. A company creating a luxury product such as colnago or pinarello selling it as such with an astronomical price tag is comparable to the lamborgini or ferrari in concept, but in those cars any person off the street can see the difference in leather, the absolute monster engines, the electronic tech and creature comforts, ALONG with the badge. In bikes all you really see is a badge someone in a factory pasted on next to another person who's pasting a different badge and a "trust us, this carbon that we stuck a marketing name onto and the bike's components cost a lot." On the surface level, people like me who don't know the exact details of the economics of such things see the chinese and taiwanese OEM factories creating their own bikes and parts for less money and the question always becomes "why is x, y, z brand 2, 3, or 4 times more expensive other than the desire for increased profit margin?"
S-Works is the perfect example of people buying an ''attitude'' bike. It's pretty sad. If it just said SPECIALIZED on the downtube, that would be no good, it HAS to be S-Works.
You're spot on. Honda and Toyota make million dollar race cars, but they focus on selling Accords and Camrys, the cars people actually want. Bike brands try to sell us World Tour race bikes, every year.
Earlier this year I bought my first new bike in 20 years; a Specialized Roubaix SL8 105 (not exactly cheap to start with). The next model up (the SL8 Comp) had the Di2 version of the 105 groupset, and a slightly upgraded FutureShock (3.2 vs 3.1). The 105 Di2 groupset costs £500-£700 more than 105 at retail, and a complete FutureShock 3.3 is £400 (much more than the likely cost difference between the 3.1 and 3.2). The price difference between the two models was £2000. I see they've since dropped that model by £750, but that's still £1250 for an upgrade in parts that would cost maybe half that. So, yea, I do think bikes are too expensive.
Simply skip on mainstream brands that rip us off. I bought a Yoeleo R11 a few months ago, and have absolutely no regrets. Less manufacturing defects than my Trek Domane SL6, better specs, a third of the price, and customer service (altough per Email) is better than with the Trek stores.
On cars vs bicycles, the manufacturers do make a lower market version of essentially the same vehicle for less money. I’ll use VW Group, Shimano/SRAM and Spdcialized as an example. VW Touareg - Tiagra / Apex - Allez Audi Q8 - 105 / Rival - Tarmac SL7 Porsche Cayenne - Ultegra / Force - Tarmac SL8 Lamborghini Urus - Dura Ace / Red - S-Works Tarmac New cars, and new bikes are both more expensive than they were, and that will always be the case as is the nature of modern (inflation target) economics. However if you can’t find something in your budget new, there’s a near endless supply of used options available for substantially less money.
Basically what you seem to focus on is the latest technology, the most sophisticated materials, a lighter, faster RACE bike as the reason/justification of the high cost of bikes. 90 plus per cent of us in no way have any need for this level of technical sophistication. Our bodies and their limitations, our training and our time available for cycling mean we don't need the latest and greatest and will never put it to its limits. Stop buying these over spec-ed bikes. As the clients for any manufacturers products we should be able to influence if not dictate what we will buy and therefor what they should make.
I skate too, bust mostly only longboard now. He’s somewhat right that analog boards aren’t crazy in price but electric skateboards have both become more accessible with prices because of all the competition in the space but at the same time there are some absurdly expensive electric skateboards and longboards with so much tech that they cost quite a bit.
Cycling is as cheap or expensive as you want it to be. You can get an old usable bike on freecycle for nothing or you can spend over 10,000 if you want to. There is a bike for every price point. I''m quite happy with entry level bikes myself. Strong, reliable, cheap to maintain but I guess to most too slow.
This past spring, I picked up my fourth significate bike. This was a Specialized gravel model. At the point of sale, I asked if they would accept my Lite Speed as a trade in. They insisted that they had no market for used bikes. I have also heard that used bikes can not be certified for resale because of structural issues.
#captioncompetition As Henry David Thoreau said, "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears the beat of a different drummer...or perhaps he's on Ineos and having an off year."
Waxed chain breaking in: I made the mistake of running my newly waxed chain on my bike, on a stand on the dining room wooden floor. I've been skating around in my socks ever since. I knew I could vacuum the flakes up, but didn't realise the ice rink it would cause.
Love hearing Dan talk passionately about the changing face of drugs in cycling. It’s what I pay my licence fee for! Would love to hear more of what it was like in the good old days.
I appreciate when Dan points out that some folks may just need to do what it takes to service their bike. If the "fix" is dangerous, that's one thing...but a hat tip to those who rely on their wits and whatever's around to keep rolling is well deserved. 👍
Not sure where all that expensive technology is being used to justify higher price points as my 2012 Pinarello Dogma 60.1 has all the tech you ever need and apart from upgraded carbon the bike is still the same today as then. Why did my Trek Emonda more than triple its price through covid and remain so afterwards when it's the same bike as pre covid - costly tech, where?
A little tone deaf again on bike pricing. Top line motorbike c.20k. Top line push bike c.15k. The manufacture,QA, safety etc. of a push bike to a motorbike is not comparible. So the price shouldnt be anywhere close to a motorbike. The "tech innovation" they say costs so much (disc brakes, carbon fibre etc) were all innovated in other industries as well. Its price gouging nothing else.
Buy used. In the USA, just search for pre-owned aluminum Giant Defy. If the bike still has it's dork disk, then it probably wasn't used much.... you can also use a chain checker tool to get an idea of how much it has been ridden.
My comment got deleted because it's hard to detect facetiousness over the Internet, but the point I wanted to make was that for us who complain about the high prices of bikes, we're not the buyers of expensive bikes. That instead are the people who can afford those bikes, who are a proportionally much smaller portion of people who are invested in this discussion. The problem, as others have noted, is that people keep providing companies the incentive to make expensive bikes by buying them, and so the problem could be "solved" by simply not buying those bikes. But those who could make that difference are probably not in this room, and not in this discourse. That makes this solution almost a non-starter, as you would have to find other ways to compel these people not to buy the expensive bikes and keep propping up that aspect of the industry. Are you, or anyone, going to tell someone how they should spend their money? If you wanted to get more "real", the issue here isn't with the bike industry anymore than it is with any industry that depends on neoliberal markets. The problem is much broader. To fix this, you'd have to dismantle capitalism and consumerism as a cultural ethos. Which...I mean, if you have a way to do that, many people would listen.
I only bought a brand new whole bike once, and never again. It was cheaper (under 500$) but I quickly caught an upgrade bug, after studying on how to get decent fit, I was able to assemble a great 10speed 105 Semi aero frame under 8kg, Most stuff bought used or Aliexpress. Now, I only buy either a frame and fork only or a decent used bike where I know I can work on it easily and I already have the tools to work on it. 😁 Some coop’s are hiding hidden gems or ebay have some decent stuff. I only buy parts new but never a whole new bike again.
I think the bike industry have lost the plot. They're increasingly concentrating on the top end of the market and the latest racing technology, and ignoring the ordinary cyclist who just wants something robust, reliable and easy to fix for getting from A to B. Most of the latest innovations are of very dubious value to ordinary cyclists. As for buying second-hand, the problem with modern bikes is that they are not really designed to last, replacement parts are likely to be hard to find, absolutely specific for that make of bike, and very very expensive.
Never buy anything with proprietary parts (seatposts, headsets, BB, etc.) Also, never buy any road bike with some squishy frame shock built into it, ever.
New bike prices now is absolute theft. In 2019 I bought a 1x diverge. All carbon hydraulic brakes 11 speed and that was $2500. That bike today is $3200. And recently I built up a Roubaix. Got a good deal on a 2021 frame and built it with take off parts people were selling. Force axs roval C38 wheels. Building that cost me $3,000. A bike comparable to that today is $6500. I'll never buy a new bike again.
Historic avg around 3% inflation for the 5yrs from 2019 to now would push the $2500 up to $2900. But inflation was not 3% in that time. It averaged 5-7%. At 5%, the $2500 would be $3200. The manufacturers are passing the increased material, labor, and shipping costs on to the customer, they are not going to eat it themselves and go out of business. High end bikes I think are increasing higher than inflation rates. They are spending R&D effort and $$ on making bikes faster. I think they need to start spending R&D $$ on making bikes more efficiently and therefore cheaper per bike. That's the only way prices will start to increase at rates slower than inflation.
I question whether so much of this modern technology is actually necessary for anyone who doesn’t race. Marginal gains, especially aero; and micro seconds gained by electronic shifting; hydraulic disc brakes; are just not relevant outside the racing context (or wannabe racers). The reality is that the bike manufacturers spread the cost of those features up and down the product line. A good basic bike, new, doesn’t require so much expensive technology. The bicycle is a solved problem. I know there are some brands that don’t sponsor professional teams (State, Retrospec) that offer simpler bikes. But I think there IS room for a company to fill that space.
Stop buying new bikes. With road cycling you hardly ever wear anything out, a bike should last for may years. Of course they keep changing group sets, bottom brackets etc. so you can't get spares after a couple of years, it's a racket.
Having been a cyclist for most of the past 74 years (having received my first very used bike at age 7), I remember a time when the saying went "Don't pay less than $300 for a bike or more than $500 for a car." The constant search for better tech to gain a tiny bit of speed seems a pointless exercise for those of us who just want to get from point A to point B on a bike in reasonable time with a reasonable amount of effort. My bike tech has progressed from single-speed coaster-brake to 3-speed, 10-speed, 12-speed, 18-speed, 21-speed, and 27-speed steel-frame models with rim brakes, and I still have the last four, which range from 13 to 45 years old. They still ride just fine, but we rarely pass other riders, and don't much care. And yes, the latest one did cost 20 times as much as that first $300 *real* bike from an actual bike store, but it seats two and was built to order.
In regards to second hand bikes, since it's my problem aswell with second hand bikes: I challenge you guys to find a second hand bike, within Bath, that actually fits Connor. Record the time used and please let me know how it went.
Stop paying it and prices will decrease , it’s supply and demand ! .. You have to maintain your older bikes … it’s not difficult ! I’ve still got all my road bikes on rim brakes , not changing just for the sake of newer disc brakes or electric gears … Worked hard enough for the bikes I’ve got .. Bikes are overpriced massively ! Anyone who pays full price is being robbed , just look at actual build costs …
Although people often think DIY costs more than just buying an off the shelf bike, I found it to be the opposite. Instead of paying for a bike, I built up my own from a frame with the exact geometry I wanted that I got on sale with components with the exact specs I wanted which I also got on sale. It took some patience and impulse control, but this allowed me to get a proper bike fit out of the box and build up exactly what I wanted instead of a more expensive compromise that I would have ended up swapping components on anyway. It still wasn't "cheap" but it was better than buying even a direct-to-consumer bike with similar specs and replacing the cranks and stem at the very least. I realize that not everyone wants to wrench their own bike or wait to collect all the components to do so like that though.
Are bikes really more expensive if we compare them at the same level of features/performance as in previous decades? For example, isn't a 2024 US$3300 Giant TCR Advanced 2 actually CHEAPER than any 2014 or 2004 bike of similar weight, component quality and brake performance? You'd need to find a high end 2014 bike to match it. We just now have a set of modern features that are far beyond what used to available, and those get expensive quickly (carbon wheels, electronic groupsets, exotic carbon components, etc). The real problem is how much one feels one is expected to spend on a "nice" bike that one is proud to show-up for a club ride on!
I don’t understand why bike companies charging 1,000s and still don’t offer customers to select handlebar width/crank length when it’s a pretty established benefit now
Speaking of 2 of your topics. Expensive bikes and Orbea. I did my bit for the used bike market earlier this year. I bought Blake Samson's pink and green Orbea Rallon. It is the most expensive bike I've owned. But not the most expensive bike I'd like if I had the money. So those bikes are going to be a pipe dream.
Passion for cycling instead of ego is the solution. Coming from Slovenia, where people are starving just to have the blingest bike, had a real shock on a vacation in CZ when only 1 store out of 17 in 2h drive area had an AXS charger and non of the road bikes I saw were disc (meanwhile, in Slo it’s almost rare to see rim brakes)
Caption competition: The Ineos Grenadiers try drastic new tactics to drown out the bad press around their 2024 season, and disastrous contract negotiations with Tom Pidcock.
Bike prices are not going up. The bling bling bike prices are going up !!! I have bought an alu bike from focus with full ultegra for 1499 in 2013 and I also bought last year in 2023 a Canyon Edurance AL 105 disc for the exact same price. A super Six EVO 1 is 7000euro with the high mod 9000, what is the same like 10 years ago. When you want to fiddle around light aero wheelsets, electronique shifting and quality disc breaking you will pay the price. A conago c68 rim brake is 7199 what is the best bike with classic clinchers and totally maintenance-able system. I Disagree. Bike prices are the same. Bling , Bling is up
Another update from the guy with no friends who like cycling: So I blew out the sidewall on my back tire last week 10 miles from my car. I had to walk 2 miles in my cycling shoes to walmart to get a new tire so I could get home and I learned an awful lot about tires, mostly how bad a really trash tire is and how nice a good tire is. I run 700c38, the tire that came stock on my bike wpuld allow me to bike steadily at 200~ watts on zwift for an hour+ the tire from walmart I capped put sustainable effort at 185~ watts. It was also super loud and vibrated so much my tocus would go numb. Yesterday my schwalbe marathon supreme came in the mail and i threw that on my bike and am now cruising at 210~ sustainably on zwift and it is so quite and smooth! I love it so much!!!
When Dan said he needed to make a personal apology I thought, for just a moment, it would be for never selecting my caption comments. Alas just another week business as usual.
There are many examples of consumers driving prices down by holding off on new purchases till prices drop. It does require a large enough number of people holding off on buying to get the industry to feel the pain of very low sales, but unless you get a mass of people participating in the effort it will not work. What makes it difficult are people with means who aren't affected and don't care.
I mean, I'm still riding steel frames built 50 years ago. As long as I can source components, (not racing) I can make do. Finding components has gotten harder, and ultimately I'll probably have to move on to some newer steel/etc frame, surly, salsa, etc, but those meet my needs. I hope the industry continues to prioritize these. Like, I'm never going to be in the market for a aero carbon racing frame. That's not what I'm trying to do with my bikes, and even when I enjoy going fast I have no illusions about speed or any specific racing goals. I'm sure many do, but certainly, I imagine, some people are taking their (for lack of a better analogy) sports car out for a sunday drive. Like the problem we have with inflating truck sizes in the US, if the industry can make money off it, I think we're going to see continued inflation and a market push towards more limited manufacturing and pushing consumers towards buying certain kinds of products over others. There are, of course, cheaper models out there, and there are still steel touring frames, but I wonder how many could be ridden 50 years from now in a similar way to the ones I currently have.
I like how GCN is now split between the old guard who most definitely don’t wax their chains and the more techy newer crew who wax and want to constantly tell you all about it! Personally, it seems like a massive faff to me. I did move to Silca Synergetic last year though. Pricey, but it lasts absolutely ages. Incredible stuff.
Cars have had genuinely trasformative safety upgrades they are essentially standard now and a new car today is demonstrably safer than a car from 2000, and that is a lot of the increased cost. You could argue that most of the tech in bikes that increases there price is nice, but not nearly as important.
Probably the biggest problem to people wanting to go to a new faster lighter bike from second hand, is simply the problem of carbon fibre and way that it is harder to see what is safe/undamaged, and that is not actually cracked and in danger of being dangerous.
What they usually do is to show a € 10000 bike and then compare it to a € 4000 bike so the later looks like the 'cheap(est)' alternative people will actually buy while not showing the sub € 2000 or sub € 1000 tiers. The actual manufacturing costs in Taiwan or China are like a factor 3-10 lower (before all the EU import tariffs are applied).
I bought my first road bike in 2014. So 10 years ago…yeah it’s old (see end of comment for the revelation) It was an entry level bike at the time, shimano 105 rim brake with shimano wheels! It was a Norco frame (their second road bike frame). It wasn’t the lightest, it wasn’t the best but I have rode thousands if not tens of thousands of kilometres on it. This year I bought a new bike for £3000 (Giant Defy 2024). I still love my old bike but the difference in feel and speed is massive! It’s night and day! I’m from the UK and I think where inflation is concerned it’s pretty much the same in terms monetary value if you consider the crazy inflation situation we’ve been in. Given the original Norco road bike was from a mountain bike brand I can fit 32mm tyres in there! I’ve now converted it to a kind of gravel bike that I can ride some basic single track and rough surfaces with
The obsession with speed and aero misses the point. It's all about the ride. Getting ready for the ride, doing the ride, coming back from the ride safe and sound, and enjoying a snack after the ride...that's what matters. However fast or slow I go is secondary, especially if I'm in a climbing mood and getting up a monster hill is the goal.
I think the solution to rising bike costs is new players in the market that people trust and are willing to get behind. The best example is VanRysel bikes... you get the same spec but for 3k lower. Will make Specialized and Orbea, Trek and the like sit up and think.
Part of it is also in the marketing and the trickle down from that is what various outlets (such as GCN themselves) show on the channel. If you're constantly showing various super bike companies that are paying the bills, then you are featuring their higher end bikes since that's what they want you to show. Featuring more bikes that are good for the consumer such as good deals on higher end like the TIME framesets which are currently 30% off or the Giant Contend which is $850 and a great ride for new or casual riders. But many of the broadcasts don't mention these bikes or even just alternatives to the mainstream.
I made better device to remove excess wax from chain/break it lose. It's better because it can be wrapped inside of a big garbage bag while using. No flakes of wax fling everywhere. Floor stays almost clean. That's the whole point in waxing. Stay clean. Therefore the device shown in Hack/Bodge section is not a hack. Needs to be redesigned.
I get the tech development cost a lot, but it's part of the business. However, it's ridiculous how bikes are THAT expensive. How does it cost the same as a motorbike?! The amount of tech, parts, and purposes in a motorbike is absolutely huge compared to a bike. It's insane...
Sure, but a motorbike isn't human-powered. It can afford to be heavy, chunky and inefficient, the human riding it won't notice. Once a machine is powered by a human, any little inefficiency adds up and becomes noticeable due to the obsessive metrics collection of cyclists and the fact you actually peddle the thing. High end bicycles need to have very tight tolerances, advanced aerodynamic research and cutting edge materials to do their job efficiently.
@@LordVarksonI don't agree. Most bicycles do not adhere to tight tolerances and I'd imagine majority of motorcycles have even tighter tolerances of their engines and other moving parts. I believe aero is not comparable either... the bicycle and rider drag is 20/80%, roughly. And speed of a frame/fork is going to net you 5 watts most at common speeds of the majority of cyclists. Whilst a motorcycle (I have never looked it up), but I guarantee makes up much more than 20% of the aero drag and uses fairings, not to forget the huge difference in speed as well. I respect your point, but, totally disagree.
My road bike is going on 20 years old now. it's a titanium Litespeed with the same Dura-Ace components that it came with, still works as smoothly as the day I bought it. The answer to expensive road bikes is for manufacturers to have mechanical rim-brake bikes available for average riders. i can keep up with the group rides just fine, all this expensive technology hasn't made the weekend rides so fast that a decent, well-maintained road bike can't be enjoyed. My mountain bike is of a similar vintage, but a case could be made it is out-of-date. Also, hydraulic discs are much appreciated with the type of mtb rides I do.
I don't race and don't pretend to be a racer, so have zero interest in a racing bike. Do NOT want electric or wireless shifters or brakes. For brakes, good quality rim brakes are just fine. Do NOT want a carbon fiber bike bcs I want something easily repaired; so a quality steel frame is fine. Just give me a well made dependable bike which won't break the bank to buy or repair, for riding in upright position with a comfortable saddle. Oh...must have fenders and mud guards. Just like my car, a bike is for getting from point A to point B in comfort and without breaking down...but the bike is also to enjoy the scenery. Again, am not a racer or racer wannabee, and comfort is more important than speed.
Si - you can come back here and ride around better trails from Halle to Leuven than the World Gravel course used anytime you want to and stuff it to the UCI - the UCI has no jurisdiction in the forest de soignes!
As in all of life, don’t jump aboard the Consume & Status train. Just get what you need to function, not attract envy. Unless you’re a truly competitive cyclist, the latest and greatest bike, kit, gear will add little to your rides….at most.
My dads prostate cancer spread to his bones and he survived for 16 very uncomfortable years. My sympathy and best wishes go to the Hoy family. All the best Matie
Just don’t give them your money, and don’t fall for the premise that more and newer technology is always better. I got a steal on a second-hand bike, but even then I hesitated because it had disc brakes, with the higher faff factor compared to old faithful cable systems. Mechanical systems will never need an app, will never need software updates, will never become ‘unsupported’ when the software is ‘too old’, will never run out of battery, will never need tools more sophisticated than a hex key, and can be kept in perfect operating condition for the price of a single cable and a squirt of lube every few years. I just don’t _need_ anything more complex, and they won’t get my money if that’s all that they offer.
