What Happened Before House of the Dragon? 

Everyone's a Mary, Margaret, Elizabeth, Henry, Richard, or George, those are the only names 😂

@@cordeliacullen2621 didn't you forget the newest one? Charles?

@@cordeliacullen2621 don’t forget Charles and Edward.

Sounds like late-game Crusader Kings...

At least its not as bad as prussia

I'm starting to wonder if Martin decided that the Targaryens are immune to the consequences of incest. It would explain a lot.

Everyone: "Stop doing incest!" Jaehaerys: "I have a permission slip from the faith."

@@Ikajo Well...They're pretty much based on the Melniboeans of Moorcock 's Elric saga. And its implied in those stories that the connection to dragons is not necessarily metaphorical. Assuming Martin is going to lean into that I suspect that the Targaryens might not be fully human.

@@Ikajo Well to be fair, the targeryans still have stillbirths all the time (who are always these weird grotesque dragon hybrids.) and most of them end up with mental illnesses. So probably not really immune.

@@Mister-Thirteen In HOTD there were details that pointed to Targeryans having sex with Dragons. (Targeryans are truly the biggest degenerates in ASOIF.)

It was the gorilla war fear and better knowledge of the geography. As well the harsh desert that won the war. How ever i love the power move of just not fighting.

Holy shit, there were gorillas involved? Give me that spin-off, HBO!

@@cattiefogelsong6399 To quote my favorite movie: "That's guerilla with a u, not an o."

It was "sneaky, efficient guerrilla fighting someone rather than letting yourself get rekt in traditional open battle" actually. See also: the Vietnam War

@@gozerthegozarian9500 cleaver most of the time. How ever that incident with the fool… that was cruel. Some of the Dornish are barbaric.

And then fire emblem three houses(and to extend Fates) goes: you think that incest? Check this shit out *Rhea x byleth*

I think it is more pan European or at least British isles history. But i am here for the dragon and ice zombies and fantasy wolves.

I actually think Martin's version involves less incest

@@bichiAllen yeah. Royal and noble family trees are nuts! Real world.

Well...More dragons at least.

@@janoupetit9407 Dominic didn't have it in the budget

@Lionstar16 - big Monty Python vibes there in that voice acting. 😆

​@@lordofuzkulak8308 Was just about to mention it

Yeees so cool

@@Lionstar16 Spent it all on the incest dance 😅

OT trivia: Dr. Widukind Lenz was the German doctor who discovered that thalidomide was behind the epidemic of birth defects in post-WWII West Germany. Okay, technically the first one to connect the dots was Australian obstetrician William MacBride, but MacBride was trying to prove his hypothesis was true before raising the alarm, so Widukind Lenz was the first to sound the warning which pressured Chemie Gruenenthal to take the drug off the market.

@@astrinymris9953 True! It was horrible that he was disbelieved and silenced at first, but thankfully his warning was heeded eventually. Indeed, the name Widukind is still, albeit very rarely, used as a first name. It is also more commonly a family name, sometimes slightly alternated, e.g. Wittekind.

@@astrinymris9953 Iirc it was actually MacBride's nurse who raised the alarm.

Wow never heard about that comparison

William the conqueror is more an apt comparison

In fairness I feel like most of the Post-Dance kings are being hard-carried by Visy II as their Hand, with only Baelor being the real bad egg of that trio. Like if succession had played out a bit better we’re talking about a second coming of Jaehaerys in decades long reform-centric rule. It’s almost like the Dance is entirely about how the nature of male-line primogeniture is inherently flawed and leaves those next in line feeling slighted when everyone in the room knows they’d do a better job than their sibling. Hm where have we seen this before… I suppose it’s a point in favor of Viserys that he *didn’t* make the mistakes of the last generation in seeking retribution for the slight, so something was learned in the end, I guess.

Jaehaerys may have been a great king, but he signally failed as a parent.

And though it seems everyone was against him marrying his sister, from your description it seems their marriage was successful, except for all but 2 of their children dying before them and neither of the surviving children being suitable for succession (though the only problem with the princess appears to be her sex drive, but she probably wasn't allowed to inherit by the patriarchy anyway). Too bad Jaehaerys couldn't do something about the damn succession crisis that would follow him. Or maybe accepting that though his marriage worked for him and his queen, incest should be discouraged if you want the family line to survive. Okay after reading the parts about Jaehaerys' reign and the lives of his children, Seara definitely didn't deserve to have any real power in Westeros. She was selfish and cruel to those weaker than her. I have to agree that Jaehaerys and Alysanne had a very good marriage, working partnership, and an excellent reign. It really is sad how things went up shit's creek within 2 generations after them.

I feel like it has too do with all the goddamn incest

Hey, Aenys wasn't insane or competent (same can be said for Viserys I, thought tbf he wasn't that bad, just the whole heir situation).

And the poor boy paid for that by being tortured by Tyanna of the Tower for nine full days.

Ooof

HEYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Also i think it was Rhaynese (can’t spell) and Maraxies who were there. They just couldn’t fly because of the weather. But the dragon broke up the center line of Durandon. Or something.

The worst part for me was they stripped Argella. Like okay betray your queen and chain her up but did they need to strip her naked? Humiliating. Gotta wonder how conflicted she felt when her enemy who killed her father was the only one to show her kindness.

@@ZombieGravitation1 yeah. I really wish we got her thoughts.

Argella was definitely badass/headstrong, but she was a fool for continuing to fight when it was obvious she’d lose. She was exactly like her father in that respect.

Tough lmao She was literaly on suicide mission risking the lifes of her own people . If she resisted, Storm's End would be the new Harrenhal by the time Balerion and Aegon arrived there. It was a lost cause, contrary to the Martells and Dorne. Glad the people revolted there and didn't let her go along with that plan.

Still mad about how the treated the most badass house in the show. God dammit D&D..

Minus the war crimes. Looking at you, guy who took Orys hands

Yeah, Wheel of Time for example commits pretty heavily to no repeating names, ends up with side characters whose name only differ by a letter or so. But in real life names are nothing like that. I am sure everyone has met people with identical names in their daily lifes. And it is especially true for nobles, which most of the characters in ASOIAF are.

But if you use repeating or even most vaguely similar names in writing you get "readers" who bitch and moan about the names being "too confusing"...

@@stonefox2546 Well, those readers can go read something else.

he was also marrried to a valaryon not a sister since aegon only had two sons another nitpick

two sons of any note anyways

You also have to wonder if the prophecy might also have justified the incest to those who perpetuated it, even after the Targaryens converted to the Faith of the Seven.

@@matthewhearn9910 Well, at the very least, before the Dance, they needed the incest to keep control of their dragons (and power). That alone I think justified it for them.

@Matthew Hearn in the show the prophecy didn't stop Rhaeneyra from getting non-incest children.

@@thevikingbear2343 One generation without incest is apparently fine, it's just that if they marry into other houses consistently enough, at some point they have too little Valyrian blood and can't ride dragons, apparently. Look, I don't know. I am not a fan of this magic system either.

@@tereziamarkova2822 Out marriages would have rapidly spread the dragon - rider gene which would have endangered the realm. You can see this happening in the show where House Velaryon have now become dragon riders thanks to the marriage between Corlys and Rhaenys. It would have been better to avoid this by allowing Rhaenys to take the throne.

Baratheon also treated his future wife with respect and when they married he took every symbol her family had except the name so It could have been way worse, that's something

I was glad Baratheon treated his wife with respect, covering her with his own cloak, unchaining her and giving her food and drink and telling her how brave her father was in battle. I like to think they had a happy marriage after that.

I’d also add that when Maegor took the crown he got into a 7v7 scuffle with those opposing his claim, came out the only survivor but was in a coma for a whole month before a mysterious lady from Essos showed up and maybe did some blood magic to wake him back up.

Right? It's so spot-on, it's uncanny!

I was thinking exactly the same thing 😂

I almost thought his next words were going to be "He#s not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy. Now go away!"

More like showing up looking for loot, almost destroying the kingdoms that hadnt burned in the war, acting like he was better than anyone by seeking justice for Aegon II and abandoning all when he was bribed with a new young wife

I know several factions wanted peace but they lines up behind Stark because crossing would not go well.

@@cattiefogelsong6399 the blacks had won even before Aegon II died, they had beaten his last army and all he had was Rhaenyra's son as a hostage but all his men knew that he was done, that's why there was a plot to kill him, at that point a peaceful transition was the best and Cregan almost ruined It all

He was so bad with his daughters and a lot of the good things he did seem to be things Alysanne did.

It’s probably because most of those marriages were cousins being married together, as direct siblings or parents were seen as going too far

@@Isuream6331 Except Ancient Egypt of course, where every Pharaoh has at least one of his (often dozen of wives) be a sister or daughter of his. Like the famous Toutankhamon was the son of Akhenaton and his sister, and he married his own sister Ankhesenamon, who may have already wed and had a children with Akhenaton (their father, once again). It's no wonder Toutankhamon had so much health problems ^^'

@@krankarvolund7771 Yeah, my understanding of the inspiration behind House Targaryen was that it took heavily from the Ptolemys, who practiced brother sister marriages as a religious/social statement...but were also such massive sluts who constantly assassinated each other to put random cousins on the throne that they really weren't all that inbred

@@cam4636 And as big in confusing by having th same names all the time

@@cam4636 True, the Lagides were a clusterfuck of incest, while the ancient Pharaohs could at least mitigate it with numerous wives, the Ptolemys were incestuous and monogame ^^'

"I'm going to do . . . nothing!" *crazed unhinged laughing*

Well, it's a toss up between them & their fellow Daodaci (or, Heirs of Alexander- in layman's) the Seleucids- which the Ptolemies intermarried with at least once; if someone could straightforwardly explain their family wreaths- they'll just- they'll win the whole internet, in my book...

@@OcarinaSapphr- But the Seleucids at least used more than one name for their offspring, making it at least marginally easier to keep up with the who-is-who and who-is-whose and the who-is-what. But yes, the Diadochi are a bit of a mess (and made a bit of one too once the Argeads were gone). Which is exactly why I'm more than glad I don't have to deal with them in my bachelor thesis and can just focus on the Argeads and their numismatic iconography XD

Overly Sarcastic Productions did a great video about the Ptolemies. It's basically Blue losing his sanity and will to live trying to make sense of their family tree.

@@gozerthegozarian9500 sounds about right. To put it in the words of a fellow student in my bachelor seminar on foundation myths: "If your family tree starts forming triangles, you should maybe rethink some actions" XD

Even if it is realistic for a royal house it is frustrating and confusing!

I feel like the Targaryen family tree is inspired by the Ptolemies (Ptolemys? Idk). They had three names that they just added numbers to and marriages to anyone more distantly related than a double first cousin were apparently anathema. Normally, you should have a total of 126 individual ancestors going back 6 generations to your 4x great grandparents. Poor Cleopatra had only 31 ancestors in that span, the majority of whom were named Cleopatra, Berenice, or Ptolemy. The Hapsburgs could only dream of being that inbred lol.

@@cockathiel5319 there is also the king of incest in the Ptolemaic dynasty, Ptolemy VIII who married his sister Cleopatra II then he married her daughter (whose father was his brother) and had children with both of them

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We eat ham, and jam, and spam, a lot

In the books i think it's called "lords right to the first night" and mostly the northern lords practiced it i.e. house bolton and house umbar

I think worth mentioning as well was all the issues Maegor had trying to make his own heirs, making Jaehaerys the default successor anyway. Maegor basically had at least three wives at a time throughout his reign, abducting new ones as his insanity grew. If I remember right the closest he ever got to a viable heir were some of those scaly dragon/fetus stillbirths that plague the line. Once Maegor kicked the bucket it was some of those forced wives that perpetrated that propaganda.

I was trying to do my family tree and one side was bad about it (and sure enough there were knights and shit in that line), while the other had ONE instance of a man marrying his brother's window and Ancestry essentially told me to fuck off and wouldn't let me go any farther back with my paternal side.

Nah it’d ruin it

@@matthewthenarniafan8074 how so?

@@campfire_cat what makes Valyria so special is that it is only talked about in terms of myth. Its magic comes from being a legend nobody knows the truth of. Pulling back the curtain and just telling everyone how it actually happened takes away the magic and makes an interesting fantasy realm to theorise about into just another lore page

@@greg_mca I think im seeing your point. It would kinda ruin the mystery surrounding the place. Would it be a similar case if they somehow showed as Asshai? Not saying that place would be the same as Valyria but it too is also kinda unknown.

and they have a cat cameo, much better then actually reading the books.

Plus valarions are pretty resilient to diseases though not immune just less likely to suffer the consequences of incest

I think there's a theorized condition that supports that idea. I saw a story about a woman who fell in love with a man who turned out to be her father and neither of them thought anything of it being wrong. (also my grandfather was allegedly a creep who tried it with my mother when I was a baby)

Yes, please! That would be wonderful!

Well put.

I mean if it was anyone else that would mean that the book might come out on the next year.... Since it's him we are talking about though it might take anywhere between next year and the next 20 years 🤣

I thought he was done and was in the revision stage?

Great voice acting🤣🤣