What Happened To Killteam 2018? 

Would love to see one about Warcry!

A loving retrospective. It sounds a lot like you want to play Grimdark Future Firefight by One Page Rules, which allow you to field whatever Warhammer models you have and combining two factions into one Kill Team.

Please do, a warcry video would be amazing

@@memeistersparadies1535 as of right now the script is being worked on

Not to be the ever-present annoying 3d printing guy, but prints have helped me leaps and bounds to stay relevant in the hobby. I'm a casual player who never intends to play at an official GW event anyways, and I'm a disabled vet on a fixed income, so kitbashing 3d prints into their analogous kill team has cut a substantial amount of cost. My Kasrkin, for instance, are actually kitbashed Not-Catachans from the Spacenam line by Wargames Atlantic, and then I just added bits to denote their gear. Only cost me about $20, even with the spare bits.

That was 1.0 for me, glad it brought you back! Skirmish games are amazing

KT 1.0 words best with a small group (Friendhammer) and KT 2.0 is a competitive format (Trophyhammer).

And as an aside, if you ever look at the KT21 teams and point them out in KT18, you almost always end up at the 125 point limit most elites games settled on by the end of KT18

Agreed. Cover isn't intuitive, especially regarding Obscuring, but it is VITALLY important to the game.

Agreed, great cover rules make good maneuvering much more key to success than in so many other games.

@@wtfserpico i would argue that cover is intuitive, but yeah obscure is not intuitive to a new player at all, i remember struggling myself to understand it when i was starting out

Shapes killed my family

Real

TBH a lot of those sales are to big 40K players, not Kill Team players.

I’m actually curious about that. It’s quite strange lol, it’s like Schrödinger game. I hear nothing about imperialis, yet it constantly stays sold out

@@michaeljdauben Im talking about Imperialis, not Kill Team or 40k. But saying that Kill Team kits sell well because of 40k is also wrong. Only some teams can be played in 40k, around the same number as of 40k kits that can be used in KT

As you should

Hunter Clade (AdMech Kill Team) allows you a lot of customisation in the current KT, you are not even tied to a set number of models, depending on the composition of your team.

Kill Team 2021 is just far more balanced and tuned for competitive play compared to 2018

GW has to prioritise competitive play with rules because at home you can homebrew rules to even things out.

Thanks for clarifying, I looked everywhere and it seemed people ran all one type

If you didn't already have them, normally you'd be stuck buying two boxes just to get intercessors and assault intercessors. Or if you're a total noob like me who had nothing, you get intercessors and the 3 assault intercessor with paints starter kit.

im happy to see som many people still play 1.0, it was such a great game

Kill Team being designed as its own game is the reason it's become one of the biggest competitive skirmish games.

@@leonardomgala I second this. Kill Team being distinctly different is the only reason I play it. It's updated on it's own timeline and balance is more fluid and easier to track.

I really think they could have made the Shapes more sensical, or put the number inside the shape, there's just so many ways they could have handled that better

fr bro

Yeah melee is still a mystery to me

oh man even your very good explanation is still missing some bits - you are only in cover if you are within 1" of the terrain that is between you and your opponent. In addition, if the target has cover but the attacker is within 2" of the terrain piece granting cover, cover is ignored. Add to that the details of the "conceal" order - which prevents you from being shot if you have cover, unless your opponent is on a vantage point. I started KT in this edition and don't know it any different. But I will say that without the help of experienced and patient players, I would have bounced off the game hard due to the sheer complexity of the rules.

Imo complicated cover rules are a good thing, because they eliminate any room for discussion and enable competitive play. For instance Necromunda cover is very vague and totally stands on your opponent's goodwill. Kill team cover is objective.

@@dogedad5172 What is mysterious in melee rules? For me they are great, very unlike GW - simple but you actually get to make decisions, not just roll dice and mindlessly watch what happens! :)

Real for this one

Facts my friend. Also if you have any audio tips I’m open to hearing them, I just got a new mic so this shouldn’t be much of a problem anymore

what did you play in shadow war?

And yes, the Easy to Build Primaris are how I started out in Kill Team 2018 also.

For me the exact opposite was true - I left GW games years ago, as the obsolete, outdated, terrible designs in the world of modern, state-of-the-art tabletop gaming, like Monopoly or Snakes and Ladders in the world of modern board games. But I kept hearing that new KT is like a game not designed by Games Workshop - a modern, smart one, with less dumb randomness, less tedious upkeep taking up most of the playing time, a lot of decision points, neat, unambiguous rules. I didn't believe it but my friends finally convinced me to give it a try. It turned out, to my astonishment, it was all true.

@@robertchmielecki2580 KT21 may be a good game for someone. And I respect it. But it's not what it was. I am not mad at warcry for not being mordheim. But when you have your favorite game and it get scraped, thrown avay and replased by something completely different that steel the name of your favorite game. And in my experience kt21 is very toxic and competitive. Especially in regards to the fans of kt18

@@robertchmielecki2580 Doge Dad 100% right about the problems of KT18. And I can name a fair few that was missed. Back in 2020 I would like to see a new edition but not a new game.

@@alekseylibernikel7606 I only play KT21 at home and I think attitudes of players may vary locally, but from my experience with wargaming communities (for example comparing WFB with Warmachine) strict, unambiguous rules where nobody needs to make guesses at intent result in a much friendlier gaming environment with fewer arguments, less cheating and clean gameplay. Playing WFB with randos was a PITA, partly due to terrible rules writing and the game requiring clunky measurments, Warmachine and KT are very much different in that respect and I hardly ever met an unfriendly Warmachine player.

Same. Iloved KT18, but KT21 is one of, if not the worst games i haw ever played.

INFINITY MENTIONED. what factions do you play?

@@dogedad5172 Nomads and their sectorials, Haqqislam and their sectorials. JSA , Tohaa, Spiral Corp and a few other NA as i fancy them, because proxies are easy in Infinity and the community laid back.

For me the exact opposite was true - I left GW games years ago, as the obsolete, outdated, terrible designs in the world of modern, state-of-the-art tabletop gaming, like Monopoly or Snakes and Ladders in the world of modern board games. Roll buckets of dice and watch things happen..."fun" according to GW marketing and no one else I know. But I kept hearing that new KT is like a game not designed by Games Workshop - a modern, smart one, with less dumb randomness, less tedious upkeep taking up most of the playing time, a lot of decision points, neat, unambiguous rules. I didn't believe it but my friends finally convinced me to give it a try. It turned out, to my astonishment, it was all true.

@@robertchmielecki2580 Not trying to start a fight, but an honest question: What about the cover system is unambiguous or neat? The core rules have 4 different diagrams to explain the rules interactions, and they frankly make little to no sense to me. As for tedious upkeep, I’d suggest you take a look at how the rest of 40K is played. Trust me, Killteam 2021 has pretty much the most “busy work” of any GW game I’ve played. The whole “engage” vs “conceal” stances is a good example of that: its just an extra step for no reason and clutters the rules.

@@wyatttyson7737 the cover rules arent easy to learn, but once it clicks its a far better system than 2018 KT

@@wyatttyson7737 Oh, Engage vs Conceal is not admin/upkeep - it's a decision! Tedious admin/upkeep is moving models for 5 minutes and then generating random numbers necessary for the game to produce a result for 20 minutes with your brain turned off, because only your hands are needed. Modern 40k is like a card game where you spend 20% of time playing cards and 80% on shuffling the deck again again and again. Compared to that KT has resolution that is either lightning fast or involves decisions itself (like melee). No it doesn't pack as many options or decisions per minute as really involved games, say Warmachine (won't even compare it to modern boardgames, which are in their golden age), but is still way above basic 40k which is just awful in the amount of non-interactive resolution. LOS is also rather simple and it is absolutely unambiguous and offers choices and counters which are gameplay related - you don't need to roll better to beat it (like with the better save for cover in 40k), you need to maneuver better. I always explain Conceal as hugging cover, like in Third Person Shooter games. You do it and can't be shot at, unless cover is flanked. You switch to Engage, so you lean out of cover to shoot, but can be shot back. If you're Concealed behind Light Cover (ducking behind a low wall) you still can be seen over this low wall from a Vantage Point and can be shot, but from ground level you can't. Obscuring is at it's most simple - you can't shoot somebody you see only partly through holes and cracks in a tall walls unless you or them are really close to that wall. Only very specific situations really need exact rules here (oh, and I 100% agree these exact rules could use a little work, like making this "really close" the same for the attacker and defender") , 90% of the time the rule of thumb above does the job. As I said, KT was a surprise from GW, because I expect GW to write rules that are imbalanced, take away player agency in favour of long and tedious random number generation, are ambiguous and, frankly, boring and decades behind what the tt gaming industry is designing right now. As a metaphor - I know a player who has never played modern economy euro games may think Monopoly is fun and a good design, but once you do, there's no going back.

@@robertchmielecki2580 So you’ve not played 40k since, what, 7th edition then? Having to decide which footing each individual model you have will be in, then remembering for the entire turn which footing they and all your opponent’s models are in, is *way* more tedious than “my gun gets D6+3 shots.” Even in the Imperial Guard, which has probably one of if not the most D6/D3 numbers of shots, the vast majority of the fire is flat rate numbers of shots. A fully kitted out Leman Russ Battle Tank has a single D6+3 cannon, then five flat rate guns, for instance. In fact, compare cover in Killteam 21 to 40k 10th edition. In 10th edition, its “can the enemy see your entire model, or ever model in your unit? No? Then you get +1 to your save.” In Killteam 2021, its “well first what footing are you. Now, are you within 1” of cover? But is it the *right kind of cover?*” Heck, in Killteam 2018 the rules for cover were “can you see the entire model? No? -1 to hit. Are you within 1” of the cover? Yes? +1 to Injury roll.” And thats 1 single rules issue. Lets not talk about the rest of the game. I could teach you how to play 10th Edition 40k in 15 minutes. I know because I have taught people entirely from scratch in 15 minutes. Same with Killteam 2018. I’ve watched like 20 battlereports and spent hours trying to decipher the rules for Killteam 2021 and still couldn’t play a game if I tried. No offense, friend, but you are coming off a lot less like “I’ve found monopoly but better” and a lot more like “why would I play Minecraft when I could play Farming Simulator 2018?”