Click here to watch part 2 of this series: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mg5HPfJSwQg.html Here are my bow parts. Bow is not available on amazon but the other gadgets are. 22 $ Compound Bow Sight: amzn.to/3nDplQn 10$ Peep: amzn.to/30Xel6F 15$ Release: amzn.to/3lDTKwf 150-200$ Bow: Samick SHT
The nocked end of the arrow will leave the string at the same place every shot , thus you have to place the arrow point in line with the nocked end of the arrow . I see it that it’s a budget build , but the arrow needs to fly straight , to achieve it’s maximum potential .
I love your style and effort you put into shooting. I shoot a compound bow and have for 30 plus years. I really appreciate all the effort you put into shooting more accurately! I never calculated a shot that much and wish I would have looking back. I have shot numerous deer and if your ever heading to the Great USA for a deer hunt I would love to host you! I would set everything up and promise you a great hunt. I am in Nebraska and have thousands of acres to hunt. We have very nice, large whitetail deer here and I know this would never happen but wanted to let you know if you ever wanted to hunt 200# plus whitetail deer we have them here and I can promise you a great hunt. Great video and great effort in your practice to shoot accurately and better. I had a Mundsterlander she was the best hunting dog ever. She was 15 before I had to put her down one of the saddest days ever for me and the kids. She was a member of our family and you are so lucky to have Amy with you. Keep up the great videos and archery shooting and techniques! Thanks Tony
As an archer I’ve noticed that you drop your bow arm very quickly after release. This causes arrows to hit low if they’ve not completely cleared the bow before you lower your arm. Holding your form for a couple of seconds longer will help with this.
As an Archer myself, she knows what she's doing. Doesn't matter where the arrow lands, what matters is consistency. You can always adjust where they land after. Her groupings were fairly tight.
In the video, you can see release in one frame, arrow underway in the next, bow moved in the next. I'm not sure what the frame rate is, but it must be faster than 20 fps. So she's dropping the bow some time in the 50 ms after the arrow clears. It's quite a lot of motion, too. It appears the bow is getting significant acceleration downward. Is it reacting against the arrow?
Friendly comment here: A bow needs to be "tuned" in order to shoot properly. Shooting through paper will tell you if you need a stiffer shaft, different grain tip Etc. The arrow should match your draw length and the fetching need not be trimmed down. Shaft diameter and wall thickness will determine the correct shaft for your Bow. Then work with different grain tips.
What you say is technically true. However, I would argue against the need to do so with a basic recurve much past getting some arrows with the correct spine for your draw weight. With all that stuff she has on her bow, she might as well shoot compound and enjoy the increased efficiency and accuracy.
"Around" I suppose. But that has less to do with the type of bow than the construction of a specific bow. Not all compound bows have an arrow path straight through the center of the bow, and I suppose you could build a recurve out of strong modern materials that would allow an arrow rest in the center.
Fully agree, the size of the hole depends on the arrow's stiffness and not the size of the feather. (of course, the shooting style is changing the oscillation as inso80 mentioned)
I guess it makes sense. Why carry around a dozen or a score of arrows if you don't need them, lol. If you miss your first shot you probably won't get another anyhow, more ammo won't help. If you wound a target you probably won't need more than one more shot to finish it, more ammo won't help. Then again ... there's always stories with the shooter who brings a seven-shot revolver to the gunfight ...
Archers paradox only affects finger shooters because we impart a sideways motion to the string on release. Using a trigger negates that. The problem is that the wooden bows are seldom cut "Over center" i.e. the arrow cannot travel straight down the centerline of the bow. We need the archers paradox in order for the arrow to clear the riser. I would be surprised if Lilly managed to get a "bullet hole" tear with her setup. If the window on the riser could be narrowed to allow the arrow to be centered then release/trigger will work. But obviously that may weaken the bow! I would also suggest a different rest like a whisker biscuit. Recurve bows aren't designed to take the increased efficiency of a trigger so keep an eye on the limb tips. Using heavier arrows and a dacron string with more strands will help protect it.
@@bowbrothers114 archers paradox is because of the compression of the arrow from the force of the string release, not because of type of release. It can be reduced for sure, though, by various means. See Smarter Every Day's video on it.
@@kristiangustafson4130 I have seen the video and it does show the difference between the finger and trigger release. The compound bow with trigger the arrow bend occurs vertically, with fingers it is horizontal. A compound bow can be shot with fingers (as we used to last century!) but will then require a different arrow rest to accommodate the sideways bend of the arrow. We cannot get our fingers out of the way of the string fast enough to not effect the path of the string. In finger shooting the string describes a figure 8 path. With a release it is straight. Yes, the compression of the arrow makes it bend and it is the initial direction of the string which dictates how that bend occurs. Compound bows are much faster than recurve bows for the same draw weight. But the arrow spine for a 300 - 340 fps (feet per second) compound bow is the same for a recurve which would be lucky to get to 200 fps. (data from the Easton spine chart.) If the trigger was not the major factor then compound bows would require much stiffer arrows. I'm trying to find a good analogy and the best i can come up with is, imagine pushing someone on a bicycle. If you start pushing in direction that is in line with the bike centerline it will be stable. If you push at an angle to that centerline then the rider will have to correct quickly or fall over!
As far as I knew - all arrows fly in a Helixical path, and that you could tighten the helix by increasing the rotation/spin of the arrow with special flights (feathers). So if arrows have a spiral path, you really should do the paper test at a selection of ranges - you should see a slightly different tip/knock impact offset angle at each range to describe the helixical path. At least you're using a trigger, so you won't have the "release flick" issues that we used to have back in my day!
For a right handed shooter If the tear is to the right, then the arrow is too stiff. You can add more weight to the front or change your arrow to a weaker spine. By adding weight to the front, you are weakening the spine of the arrow. If the tear is low, you need to raise the nocking point higher. You were testing with 80 and 100 grains field points. Get some 125 or heavier grains to test it again. You can also use a heavier insert for your arrow, if you desired to stay with the 80 or 100 grains tips. By doing so, the arrow speed will decrease from the added weight. I would have bare shaft tuning first. This is shooting without any fletching on the arrow thru the paper and shoots it about 10 feet away. Get a full length size arrow to test. You want to see the arrow to be weak and tear high. First adjust the nocking point by moving it higher or lower. Always start with the nocking point high and adjust it by lowering it little at a time. You can then trim the length of the arrow until it shoots straight. For your 35lb setup, 700 spine arrow with 100 grains tip should work fine. good shooting
I admire her capacity for self-criticize and make adjustments on the fly. I don't know anything about archery, but I can recognize discipline and clear sight when they're on display. I am envious of her control.
This test of the arrows was very interesting. I never knew that the flight of the arrow could be determined and adjusted. And it can be done with something as simple as a piece of paper. Clever, and well done!
@Karl Schubert I disagree. I believe that every detail matters in, and affects, flight. There's a good paper called The Mechanics of Arrow Flight Upon Release that I find interesting. Here is the link in case you are interested: www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~archery/wp-content/uploads/docs/knsu.pdf. Here is another, called Physics of Archery: www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-archery.html. The more aspects of arrow release and flight that Lilly can adjust, the closer she will be to her goal. The Archer's Paradox is a very interesting phenomenon.
@Karl Schubert umm it matters a lot with accuracy especially at distance. You want your arrows firing bullet holes in the paper. This is called paper tuning, lots of people then go into bareshaft tuning which is an arrow with out fletching, same concept, but it is basically super tuning. If you can get these arrows flying straight off the bow your accuracy will improve and groups will tighten at longer distance. A lot of archers shoot regularly at 100 yds (90ms give or take) or further distances as it tightens your groups up at closer ranges. If you didn't do all this tuning, you would never stand a chance. IF she really wants to start putting the time in the arrows themselves can be tuned as well and the fletching done to be in the optimal position (basically nock tuning the arrow, or having a shop find the spine of the arrow to put the cock feather on)
If you start with unfletched arrows for paper shooting. That can give you an idea of which arrows will fly the straightest. Fine tuning can be done more after the arrows are fletched. Also look to see if the limbs are slightly twisted or leaning the bow string right or left. All these things can affect flight patterns.
You're the only person I know besides myself who uses a caliper release for a takedown recurve bow. I don't always use it but find that it makes my aim much better whenever I do. Same goes for fall away arrow rest. I don't use a sight, but those two I find to be incredibly useful. "Traditionalists" can kiss my behind. Screw haters, - you go girl!!
You’re dropping the bow (to watch the arrow fly ?)IDK) while the bow is held stiff handed and tight gripped. You are shooting well but you can shoot even better by loosing your grip and letting the bow “slump” in your hand kind of like free floating the bow. Watch how Olympic shooters grip the bow if you are curious what I mean. You can also change the stiffness in the arrow by adding slightly heavier tips as long as you don’t mess up your point of balance or “weight forward” too much. Heavier tips cause the arrow to pile up in a arch a bit more (like a cats back) until the shaft overcomes the tips Inertial resistance. Hopefully that is helpful.
Relax your bow hand. It looks like you're gripping the bow during the shot. You should let the string tension hold the bow against the web of your hand, the grip resting on top of the same area, and relax the fingers. Even holding it lightly can throw off your shot.
The further out you shoot, the straighter your arrow will fly. It will still be oscillating up to about 30 yards. Out past that it should straighten up. I used to regularly shoot starting at 5 yards and go up to 60 yards and found this out by accident. There are charts available to tell you what spine arrow you need for your bow.
The upper limb, lower limb and hardness of string are the set of a certain arrow to fly perfect. You changed arrows and you need to think of the bow balance for them. When the arrows are lighter, the vibrations and irregular pushes of both limbs reflect arrows drastically. I had the similar experience when I changed aluminium arrows to carbon arrows, my old Yamaha competition bow from 20th century always gives an initial velocity differently. I reduced a few percents of limb power and used a softer string, it got usable again. My two cents.
Shooting completely bare bow my remake of the Bear '59 Kodiak shoots 400 spine Gold Tips (cut to 30 and a half inches), 125 grain points, (45 lbs @ 28 inch draw.) as they say "like darts". Total arrow is 450 grains.
I can appreciate the work you are putting in to your recurve. I have two sammick sage bows and a Mandarin black hunter the sages are 65 lbs and the black hunter is 50. I tried all the bells and whistles that you are doing but I found that I shoot them better traditional and enjoy it more by keeping it simple. Anyway good luck and have fun enjoying the videos
arrow tuning and bow tuning can be difficult if you don't understand where to start and what changes can do to arrow flight. This is fun to watch if you have never tuned a bow before but it shouldn't be taken as anything more than entertainment. There is so much unconventional stuff in this video it is a great example of how you can change a bunch of stuff and still hit the target pretty well. As long as you are having fun shooting it's all that matters but don't allow it to frustrate you. have fun experimenting....BTW if you buy a more flexible arrow and then you cut it shorter, it makes it "act" stiffer again. also, reducing weight in the front of the arrow causes the spine to '"act" even stiffer again. reducing fletching size/length is going to make the arrow faster but it is going to make it less effective in causing the arrow fly straight. again, fun to experiment.
Your bows don't have the centershot which means the arrow slams against the riser and bends. Then, as it flies, it oscillates. If you want to get a perfect bullet hole, use a compound bow with stiff arrows.
Your paper test is too far away from you. But your results are consistent, this helps knowing What to adjust. Arrow rest is too far out, and knock point is too low. The spine of the arrow is affected by: draw weight, arrow length, & the weight of the arrow head. Things aren't very out of adjustment, considering that tour groupings are pretty good. Do the paper test with the paper stand about 3 steps away from you, this will tell you more about how the arrow is taking off. The fetching is there to help correct what takes place after that. I have fired more than a million arrows, it is very satisfying when you get everything tuned up right, and you start shooting bulletholes in the paper. Like the video!
thanks lilly great video , the joys of archery 😊 love it . heavy spines lighter spines stiffer spines flexible spines thinner spines , heavier tips lighter tips shorter fletches narrower fletches fatter fletches longer pheeerrr . thinner longer shorter nocks . then sights theres a lot of tuning to be done without silencing and vibration reducing . every single part eventually gets customised as your considtency increases . always a work in progress .10/10
Loosen your grip on the bow, that will reduce torquing. Try pointing your fingers of your left hand down range, in other words, don't grip the bow, just let it pivot on the webbing of your left hand. After the arrow leaves the bow you can wrap your fingers around it.
I do not understand the question. Maybe I missed something, but an arrow does not fly straight. It flexes as it absorbs then releases the energy from the bow. I think an interesting test would be shooting through the paper at 30cm intervals (start at 10m then 10.3m etc). I suspect the direction of the cut may change.
Archer's paradox: If you use bow you will always have oscillation in your arrows. Look up Smarter Every Day channel for slow motion and explanation. If you change the distance from the paper you may get the point where the arrow is straight.
25 meters is a very short range when it is considered that a copetition shot under FITA RULES is 90 meters and 144 arrows, and very importantly is the fact that release aids are a no no, the string is pulled back by three fingures, this sadly rolls the string as its pulled back and of c ourse the string unrolls when let go, this has the effect of bending the spine of the arrow, however, release aids are for compound bows when it comes to competition shooting. A little know fact is that the flights of an arrow are usually made of flat plastic these days, and by warming them a little, they can be made to rotate as they travel. When fletches were made of goose feathers, by warming up a bit of bees wax to the point were it will stick to your fingers, you can in fact put a finne coat of bees wax on the feather which can be molded with the fingers to give the same effect, however, the feather type fletch is also effected by rain and therefore gives some protection from the wet, bearring in mind that wet fletches do effect the fight of the arrrow.
Nice video. Just an advice. Don't cut your arrows to length before you paper test them. Most likely your arrows with their spine, would tune well if they had been left longer. Better to start with longer arrows and then cut them shorter if needed to make them tune well. If you absolutely want to have your arrows as short as possible to save weight, you need to buy arrows with a weaker spine. If you want to hunt bigger animals than hares with your bow, I recommend you prioritize weight and penetration over arrow speed.
The same thing that happened when you fire a bullet through paper a hole. Let me take a wild guess, you can see if the aero or bullet is stable in flight . When developing ammunition for a wildcat round , new rifle or pistol cartridge you do the same thing. Note it is easier to load a new sheet of paper it you put the hinge at the bottom. That way gravity helps.
Try shooting through paper at 6' to "papertune" the bow. Shooting off the shelf can also be a problem with a release aid. They are generally used by finger shooters.
Hi lilly sorry I haven't been on your channel for a bit, but I would like to say your got really good on that bow.♥♡from wales PS best wishes for you and your family for the future and have a MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR.
I would think that bare shaft tuning would tell you more information with a traditional bow than paper tuning. And when you cut the arrow shaft shorter yes you loose a little weight, hardly a difference though, but you also make it stiffer. If you really want to get the weight down, just buy an arrow shaft that's made lighter to begin with (less grains per inch). And, I may be being critical here, but if you're going to be using a mechanical release, D loop, Peep and bow site you may as well just shoot a compound bow.
I thought that arrows oscillate in flight. So it did not surprise me to see the linear cut in the paper. Maybe a colab with the slo-mo guys and their phantom camera would help! Provided the tip follows the flight path you want I dont know how much the oscellation and therefore the length of the rip in the paper actually matters.
I appreciate your expertise in archery, but your paper test wouldn't change the result how dead your Quarry would be if you shot it and hit it. If you were using broadheads instead of field points I think the paper test would be a lot more telling, because from my experience broadheads do not fly the same as field points. That being said I do enjoy your Channel, keep up the good work!
With all that aid you can just use a whisker biscuit, then you can shoot any arrows and use and shoot 2 inch rubber fletchings because there is no archer's paradox.
This brings back memories of my early days archery shooting. We did most all the things you were doing with our stick bows We all shot our stick bows because there were no compounds, they were not invented yet. We did not use wood shafts, we quit that as soon as aluminum shafts became available.
It is your let off using a mechanical device not the arrow and knock. They create a slight catch on strings depending on draw weight. Also they sometimes let off the arrow slightly to one side. Like a firearm when release there is also a slight letdown because arms are stressed so much from holding string pressure back
@@SurvivalLilly it’s based in bow hold and let off. Basically it’s the power of the bow that’s affecting the rear of the arrow to drop and the arrow itself could just be very heavy. Length of arrow and what’s it’s made of etc
You have no counter weight. Weight on front of bows help to counteract that usually it keeps the bow more level in your hand while shooting which will help the arrow fly more level. Just trying to help. I have been shooting since young child and held many awards and competitions. I have taken down many deer etc also. It’s a very easy fix.
Hi friend , i am very pleased on how you have set the bar to 35lb and a red cord which indicates the center of your bow , good luck thanks for sharing Danke Schurne, Buenas Gracias , Bonitaz , #######
Why did you edit out knocking the arrow with the wrist release gadget? Is it awkward to mount The arrow with it ? Not a critique just a question. Nice shooting.
Interesting combo with using a d-loop and trigger release for a recurve bow. I get the sense that you're not interested in target shooting competitions :P as they're a bit more strict about the equipment you can use and the sights. But if you're full on survival shooting I would think you'd do as plain a bow as possible, as you can't assume you'd have a working trigger release or sights in the wilderness. And if your main concern is accuracy, why not just use a compound bow with sights? You're taking some odd middle ground and can't understand why.
You're stirring something in me. I think I want to learn how to shoot. The technology is fascinating. Do you use a surprise release or command? I was reading a bit about that. Great site!
I'm no archer but I was thinking it might have to do with the alignment of your trigger device. When you are drawn back it is not in line with the arrow. But like I aid I'm no archer and have no idea why this video popped up for me but I did enjoy it.
if the tracepaper shows a diagonal stripe, i would say that,that is the direction in which the arrow is flexing.. i assume a horizontal line is what you hope for.. just horizontal flexing.. but i am not sure of the logic about it..
As someone who was shooting historically accurate Longbow i will never understand why people need sights. You don't need to aim.. you just need to whisper a prayer to the arrow and release it... arrow will know where to fly. (philosophy of not thinking about aiming) but then again. i never shot a bow with sights so maybe that is just me.
@@SurvivalLilly i agree but i would also say that it is matter of practice. I've been shooting a historical longbow for years and from 20 meter distance i can put 6 arrows one after one close to the center with maybe a 1-3 cm between them. But since i have no experience with modern bows i can't say whether i would be more accurate with sights or without.
I like your form! Very nice. Quick Q though : if your paper tune shows tip left of fletching doesn't that mean the rest needs to be.moved towards the riser ? Nice video regardless,,,!
You grip the bow too tight. Your adjustments made little difference really. Because the problem is your tight grip on the bow. Get a rope that goes around your hand to keep you from dropping the bow and lwt the bow rest easy in your hand. When yopu have the arrow drawn the pull pressing the bow against your open hand should be what is holding the bow to your hand. Shoot paper at a level attitude. Higher target. Paper closer to you. The farther the arrow travels the more it is stabilized. so if you are seeing rips at a long distance you know you have trouble. Closer to you helps fine tune your arrow flight. But first get the grip on the bow right. Then proceed from there. You can never tune a bow set up to fix bad form. Overall you are doing really well. Also search for bare shaft tuning if you really want to get geeky with it.
So I would like to ask, when you were shooting your older arrows the ones that were larger in diameter, with the longer fletchings, where you having the same issues as your having with these lighter arrows? You seem to have good tiller adjustment with your limbs, perhaps your seeing the action of the flex of the arrow shaft at that distance your shooting. Maybe your arrows would settle down and fly straight at a greater distance something like 50 meters. Back in my day of friendly competition at 25 yards I was routinely shooting off from my own arrows the nocks of arrows I had already shot, it got to the point that my fellow competitors would adjust our bows so the nock didn't follow the point to the target just to save the shaft from total destruction.
I have never seen a bow set up like this. Recurve bow with no long rod or limbs, plus a compound sight and compound release aid!! I'm so confused! I shoot at a club in the UK where we just shoot Olympic recurve, barebow and compound. Are bow set ups like this common outside of a competitive environment?
