What happens if you side with Ketheric Thorm & Balthazar & Absolute Baldur's Gate 3 

*nods* Exactly... having a wretched Githyanki with me would have not served me, in my opinion, so I got rid of here, seeing as this would also give me points with the dear Tieflings. I am my own evil, so why should I follow someone (the absolute) that might try to control me ? I'd rather let them all think I am the hero, while in truth barely caring for their lifes. And only saving those that may be useful. A shame, really, that I could not bring Thorm to my own side, as he would have served a useful asset. But oh well, I successfully deceived the supposed heroes to heed my every call. Aka... some Elf thinks she is evil, but is actually the good guy, simply because so far every "evil" decision would had have to many negative aspects in her eyes, with far less gains then just doing the good thing. In turn just meaning... there is no such thing as black and white here, instead only a big mass of greys...

A dishonest man you can always trust him to be dishonest honestly its the honest ones you have to be careful of

why'd you have to type that out like you're on a rp server in world of warcraft@@kirisuma2186

I play evil killing the good guys and bad guys because this what "Evil" means

You should become a philosopher

That would mean the player loses control over the character though. (spoilers:) and Ketheric was doomed anyways

@@sblbb929 it would not mean that. And ketheric wouldn’t die if we didn’t kill him.

Laezel is kinda evil too i guess

Some of the "good" companions are actually kinda neutral and can become evil Shadowheart - starts out good, but get her invested in Shar worship and kill both the Nightsong and her parents, and she becomes full Dark Justiciar Lae'zel - the Githyanki were considered "evil" in older editions of D&D, and while BG3 is sympathetic to them, they still show the brutal and warmongering nature of their upbringing. Also, having Lae'zel commit to Vlaakith is kinda evil, especially if she kills V Gale - arguably the most good of the above three, but the dude starts getting power hungry when he learns of the Crown of Karsus. I think that there is an avenue for an evil Gale Compared to the above, only Karlach and Wyll are the most good. A lot of this also banks on how willing they are to stick around after betraying the grove

Astarian isn't really 'evil' per se, more like traumatized and abused.

​@@nightshademilkshake1ascend him, and you'll see true colours of evil.

It's interesting how some Gamers think Astarian isn't evil just because he was Abused, while over-looking that he's a 250 year old Vampire that has more of a body count then all the Serial Killers in history - while giving off Sociopathic, Sadomastic, Necrophiliac, Rape Vibes.

FYI it's JK Simmons

@@shepherdlavellen3301 Yep I forgot to comment that too haha, I had some form of suspition I just didn't remember his name before, what a fitting voice too, all I could remember was JJJ haha.

@@SlivkoverseStories same, for a while I can't remember which one is the actor and which one is the character, also Toby Maguire is the best Spiderman

@@shepherdlavellen3301 Tobey is a legend but I believe Tom Holland balanced both faces of spider man well, Tobey and Andrew did well only half of the character I guess but I think that Tom Holland objectively speaking is the best.

The original baldurs gate games had plenty of american accents. I guess they wanted to make it more consistent.

I've always seen it as becoming a *greater* evil. These half-wits think they can be evil? They didn't slaughter an entire grove of children and innocents to gain the approval of a drow to get laid.

Their entire point is they want to control everything. You are outside of that. Ofc they are going to betray you

what did you expected from evil bastards that serve greedy evil gods? loyalty?trust?friendship?

You can join bhaal or bane in baldurs gate just not myrkul

Ti be fair, you can be evil. It’s just that in doing so you surround yourself with other evil characters. After all, every single on of the Chosen Three wants to betray the other two, it’s quite coherent 😂

Nah, why would you commit yourself as their pawn on an evil run?

@@bengunn9670 when I wrote the comment I didn’t know that the absolute was a scam, and I’m glad that the game has a separate evil ending

Because it's a role playing game and even if it's a bad idea you should be able to do it ​@@bengunn9670

This isn't necessarily forced into the path of good. Just you are still forced to fight him.

@@broseidon2519 umm what? Witcher is a good game, but I'm pretty sure that you can't be evil in that game. You are Geralt Of Rivia nothing more or less.

@@broseidon2519 Forced to be good is not the same as forced to fight Ketheric. Evil doesn't get along either and often collides with one another. There are entire evil faiths that go out of their way to kill other evil faiths in this setting. "Good" as a concept isn't united either.

@broseidon2519 That is literally the claim that was made for this conversation. Also, you could never concievably side with Ketheric ever, because you carry the artifact that can get in the way of his destiny, and it will not leave you.

@@broseidon2519 Witcher 3 had such dogshit combat that the story really doesn't matter. Hell the even the story that Witcher fanboys talk about at nauseum is so bland, uninteresting, and just has bad writing overall. Y'all should read more books and then talk about stories.

I mean, Ketheric was a victim since the beginning after the deaths of his wife and Isobel. When he turned to Shar that was the moment she twisted him to become what she wanted, and I doubt Ketheric wanted to be an evil guy. But he did what most humans do in desperate situations, follow a leader and his ideals. When it was not enough and the memories would not subside, he betrayed Shar and went to Myrkul for reviving Isobel and in return, creating the Absolute and later take control of it. This was the moment it was not about his daughter, but to serve Myrkul. He was used and abused. Yes he made a deal with Death, but during the fight on Moonrise Towers, he almost switched sides, had Aylin not slammed down in front of him and taunted him.

@@Mr.Cheeseburger24 You can kill Aylin and see what happens, if she doesn't interrupt you on Moonrise Towers :)

nah Ketheric was insane and planned to betray his allies anyways. From readinf some of the letters and books the Guy had a screw loose way before the absolute plot. You'd never be able to side with him

yeah...

@@Redlocking Lol so you can choose to capture isobel and kill jaheira all just to be evil but youre still not evil enough

@@D3athL1vin I thought if you want to be evil, you might wanna get rid of these guys so I choose to kill Ketheric anyway. Just wanted to know what happens if you don't kill them but seems there is none

I mean if you talk to him with the “ good way “ not siding with the absolute, he tells you he was going to betray his Allies

@@zalamander5974 Yeah but we still have the prism, I don't think he ever trusts our characters while they resist the Absolute's power

WeMod, cheats

Yeah We Mod. I used that when I was testing out classes and just wanted out of the tutorial area. I guess this guy wanted to just see what happens if you side with the cultists.

@@TheRandomMuffinMan WeMod? I've not heard of this. Something on Steam you can get? What does it allow you to do?

*SPOILER* You can avoid the Moon Tower and go straight to Baldur's Gate. Although the Guardian will transform you into a mind flayer and its game over.

Like Witcher 3

@@solaris4019Well Geralt is a set character with his own personality, so I never expected there to be evil options.

The main stopping point of being evil is that you have to fight the cult regardless. You cant be completely free if you dont kill them and they wont stop hunting you because you have the artifact

You have a mind controlling tadpole in your head! You have three choices: - Destroy/subjugate the cult - Be enslaved - Die An evil character does not mean good deeds are impossible for you perform- quite the opposite you would do whatever you can to be free. By the time you reach the Ketheric boss fight I cannot imagine any character who would side with him, unless they prefer the 2nd or 3rd option.

@@MarvelOfRainI'm not even talking about this mission. I mean overall. There's way less content and you're essentially nerfing your own character by going evil. Your only reward for going this route is Minthara and she's still bugged.

New Vegas is KING CRPG better than BORING RPG FOR KIDS LIKE WITCHER 3 AND MASS EFFECT.

@@solaris4019 does Fallout NV even fit in the category of CRPG?

there is, just toggle on non-lethal dmg in the passives section and fight like normal or just use sleep spell

@@OldManJacan Does the game actually recognize this as bringing her back alive?

@@jbshbsskskhbs6713 So, I just tried this because I couldn't find the answer. Ketheric is really grateful that you brought his daughter back, but then he finds out that you have the artefact so the same exact thing happens. :/

And I'd be willing to bet with almost 100% certainty that there is no way to *not* have the artefact. I've tried several ways in the intro and it just teleports into your inventory even if you kill Shadowheart or never talk to her.

Was wondering if you could save her during the fight. Like, bring both of them and kill Ketreric withdou killing Isabel in there

You sound like you need help.

I think currently they have covered the main 2 avenues: - "Good" playthrough by doing the obvious thing - "Evil" playthrough by carving a path that you think is best for you no matter the consequences or price There is a lot of other paths like: What if you fully side with the absolute? What if you discard the emperor for being a loser? What if you give Vlaakith the artifact and kill the emperor? However most of those have a simple answer: You die. What you said is cool, but this just isn't that kind of story. You mock Vlaakith for being weak - she kills you, you don't trust the emperor - your story ends, you side with the absolute - your story ends. Character that you describe sounds interesting, but would not reach the endgame. You need those "losers" to survive. The only way to take over is to lie to everyone, use them and flip the script. Otherwise your pathetic little lvl. 12 nobody doesn't have what it takes to do it alone. Ultimately you actually are free to choose and do almost anything. Just don't expect the rules of the world and the characters in the story to shift around to make your choices correct.

​@@MarvelOfRainwell said. I dunno how others don't understand it.

@ChaoticAndEvil Name checks out. Anyways, you can very much not side with anyone. You don't need to help anyone either. But then again you're also not playing a god so of course that has limitations

Ketheric and co are very pissed at you and you have to fight your way through

Isobel is already dead if you let Marcus (or his flying ghouls) take her to Thorm

yeah but thats not the players fault. thats the games fault for not having that option.@@timetochronicle

NON LEATHAL TOGGLE? @@Honed-

yep, even with it toggled they still kill her.@@MAYOWA.007

Will appear regardless (in the cinematic)

can you even give it to them? When I tried the inquisitor attacked anyway and I got it back

@@TheNemkris I don't know, to be honest xD

@@TheNemkris It's scripted, there is no absolute pathway

@@WizavPRO This is correct. I didn't reverse engineer the game or anything because I'm not familiar with the game engine, but I did run through the early game with a couple of tests and I'd say with almost "absolute" certainty that it's unavoidable. Even if you never meet Shadowheart, or you kill her on the ship, or on the beach, the artefact goes into your inventory when you get to the goblin camp and you can't give it to anyone

She was literally killed thousands of times. That little introduction scene Ketheric did - she was the one actually getting stabbed by the spear and almost getting her head choped off. What she did to him was a mercy in comparision. I will agree she gives you some reasons to dislike her. She has a lot of Lawful Good murder hobo palladin vibes. The devs even think of this and allow you to give her over to Lorroakan later. However thinking she is a villain of any sort is dellusional. It is purely based on the voice acting and most of Ketheric's atrocities happening prior to the game starting. He is a monster that killed and ressurected countless innocent villagers, betrayed two gods, tormented Aylin to do cool displays of power and is willing to plunge the world into a zombie apocalypse just because his daughter and wife died. His voice and temper are amazing though - that contrast is sort of the point of his character IMO.

@@MarvelOfRain you said it perfectly man hell i let dame aylin do anything to ketheric lol

I like her cruelty. Its a sweet revenge :D

Much better than yout typical angry barbarian goes brrr