What If Hosea was the leader of the Van Der Linde Gang? | Red Dead Redemption 2 

If Hosea had taken over the gang it would have definitely been more centered around less noise, putting the women and children first, and cons to gain money instead of outright robbery. However, after Blackwater i dont think the gang would even hold together like that. I believe Hosea would understand the position the gang is in and try to have everyone move on. Thoughts? Who or what next?

I think we'd see people like bill and micah move on the second they're out of the mountains. Hosea might turn the gang into more of family of out casts rather than the money making machine dutch focused on, not to say they wouldn't make money but they wouldn't try to be unnecessarily violent or pick fights above them

Hosea is an archetype within the world of fiction commonly referred to as "The Voice Of Reason" The voice of reason is mostly a narrative driver, and is usually the quote unquote "True Leader" of the story. This person helps influence the false leader, commonly refereed to as "The Politician" the politician is the person who lacks common sense, but has great charisma and natural speaking skills. So what happens when The Voice Of Reason dies or the politician stops listening? the whole group falls apart. Think Piggy and jacks dynamic from Lord Of The Flies. or Brian and peter from family guy.

This is the best scenario. They get back out west and if Arthur even gets sick, he lives a while in the dry warm climate like Doc Holliday.

Dutch dying in Blackwater is something I never thought of, there's one person I think you should've mentioned, though, Javier. Javier was far and away the most loyal to dutch and he was also in Blackwater. Do you think he would've died alongside him? And if not, would he be just as loyal to Hosea?

another aggressive side that can be seen in Hosea is random events in camp like the drunk Bill incident, he can be seen more or less telling Micah to f off, he can also be seen screaming at shaun for sleeping on guard duty, and there's another one for javier I think but I can't remember how it goes

Hosea was terminally ill if I remember correctly. It would look more like he would try to give life for everyone, a life far from fear if you even wake up the next day, basically he would act more like chapter 6 Arthur trying to ensure that everybody is well and safe. I don't think he would just give the choice of leaving but actively encourage for another way of life simillar how he did with John in the game

With Hosea's planning and intelligence and Arthur and John as the muscle I think the gang would have lasted much longer. I bet at least Micah would have left maybe some others too.

When he draws on Bill and shouts that he's "excused [him] enough" was very tight

Since Micah was recruited by Dutch, if he got arrested in strawberry like in the main story, Hosea probably would leave Micah since Micah is unhinged but that’s if Micah stays with the gang

I think Micah would be kicked out or killed after the first mission. Hosea would take Dutch’s role as leader and would probably be irate after Micah burnt down Sadies home and their one chance at a good sanctuary. He’d either have Arthur kill him there or he’d kick him out into the blizzard were he’d die from frostbite or make it back to New Hanover were he’d probably get captured by local law for starting something stupid. Hosea probably wouldn’t go after the O’Driscolls so they would rob Cornwalls train and take the heat off of the gang as the rescued John and started moving west as Colm went east into New Hanover. The gang would probably still rescue Sean as well since they’d be moving through the territory west of strawberry and likely cross near where he’d be getting transported, so it’d be an easy save. The gang would gradually transit from being highway robbers to being a more organized type of crime syndicate. Instead of robbing banks and people they’d run financial scams and protection rackets. In dry states, which were a thing before prohibition out west, they may even become early bootleggers. Overall they’d probably make a good amount of cash and I don’t think anyone would leave. The gang would probably stay together without Micah or Dutch creating rifts with its members and Hosea would probably have Arthur shut down any bank robbing or noise creating activities that would keep the gang quiet but happy. The only people I could see leaving would be Molly and Karen. Molly for obvious reasons with Dutch but Karen because she’d naturally fall out as a drunk (something Hosea wouldn’t tolerate). Bill and Javier would probably stay around with Hosea giving them constant work and Arthur taking more of a leadership role as the lead enforcer, probably at hosea’s request. Charles and John would stay out of not having problems with Dutch’s leadership, and may not even drift off as the gang wouldn’t have nearly as much heat and would be “more legitimate” as an organized crime syndicate. Sean and Lenny would probably thrive with Sean taking after Arthur and Lenny taking after Hosea as the “new guard”. Uncle would be uncle and the rest of the camp would probably stick around with no big reason to leave. Strauss specifically would take a much larger role and would be key to Hosea’s more organized style of crime. Overall the gang would be in good shape and would probably settle in a western state like California or Oregon where they’d fit right in without any large local bounties over their heads.

I had a similar AU idea some time ago. Instead of Davey getting shot on the road out of Blackwater and dying in Colter, Dutch does instead. "If I could throw myself in the ground in their place-"

The biggest thing that would change is Micha would absolutely out cut from the equation. Hosea would NEVER let Micah come with. Now obviously Micha would still follow just to spite them and get the payday he wanted, but hosea would never let him stay as long as dutch did

I think a cool what if scenario would be if the gang decided to return to their Robin Hood inspired roots and started directing their criminal activities towards solely the corrupt or even just straight up turned to vigilantism, go the Batman route? I don't know, just something that's been floating around in my head this past week or so.

as i said under your post i think it would be more likely for arthur to become leader because hes already the tough guy of the gang who under his wanted poster even says "do not approach"

"Always fear an old man in a career where men die young"

I think putting aside an obvious case like Micah, most of the gang will stay under Hosea’s leadership provided they are alive and well. I don’t have much insights into the women and children of the camp, but for the gunslingers. Arthur: - Looks up to Hosea and probably considers him a father-figure John: - I’m not entirely sure about John’s relationship with Hosea, but he and Hosea were the first to sense that Dutch had gone nuts. John is very keen and logical, he knows he’s in good hands under Hosea. Javier: - Javier has unwavering loyalty towards Dutch, the man who saved him when he was lost and hungry in foreign land, he has stated that the gang is his family and it is his home, it is highly unlikely he would leave because they are moving on from the life of outlaw and gunfighting Bill: - Same thing as Javier, loyalty towards Dutch, found solace in the camp. Neither of them are particulary chaos creator like Micah, they’re not looking to shootup towns for fun, they’ll stick with the gang because it’s all they’ve ever known after hitting rock bottom. Lenny: - Shares alot of Hosea’s ideology, he has great desire for companionship and he says that if he dies, he wants to be buried ith his friends. Sean: - Can’t be too sure about Sean but he seems to be really close with Arthur and he’s very carefree so I can’t imagine that he’d be against Hosea becoming the leader who takes on a more passive path Charles: - I don’t think I need to say much about Charles, he sticks through thick and thin and arguably one of the smartest, logical and virtuous outlaw equal to Hosea. (Cases where members will stay but leave eventually) Sadie: - Sadie is hard to break apart but I’m highly leaning towards that she would leave the gang if they do not match her motive for revenge; that revenge against O Driscoll isn’t just out of hatred, it was the last thing she could strive for before she’d let herself free. Sadie would fight tooth and nails to get out of camp and hunt Colm herself if she has to, even if the gang supports her, I doubt Sadie would stick around for long; the gang is a friend and home to her but to me, it felt like it was never permanent. She has to move on by herself and find her life somewhere far away. Micah: - He would stay and try to convince some to his side, someone like Arthur until he either gets the boot or leaves by himself out of frustration. Strauss: - Arthur’s gonna send his ass and I think Hosea would send him even earlier, even someone like Dutch hated Strauss’s line of work, without Dutch vouching for him (because he makes money), he’s gonna get the boot.

I like to believe that if Dutch were to indeed die and Hosea were to become the new "temporary" leader, he'd try to make Arthur or John more ready for the position. He'd probably kick out Micah as most of the worst plans came from him but other members were free to come and stay or to leave. He didn't care much for John leaving for one year and would've probably talked to Dutch about letting the girls and Jack leave so we could probably infer he doesn't care if gang members wanted to leave. He probably would've stayed a lot more on the "scam" side of his hustle, ie. talking to rich folks and then robbing them blind and getting out before being caught and probably in a whole other state. He has shown to be more cautious than Dutch and enjoys the more silent heists instead of doing loud and dumb things like robbing a train with the Pinkertons and O'Driscolls nearby. He would probably tell the gang about his illness and how they shouldn't expect him to be Dutch 2.0. He would've had more time to work more people in Valentine, I remember he was talking about doing something there before the whole shootout ruined it all. Lastly, I'm unsure if he would actually change the gang name to "The Matthews Gang" as "The Van Der Linde Gang" had become much more reputable over the years and was presumably used the last 20+ years Hosea and Dutch were together. He doesn't seem to be the kind of person to really want his name in the spotlight and would probably keep the name the same due to the aforementioned reputation and as tribute to his late friend.

Hosea wouldn’t have been able to keep people like Bill in line. He was the wise man of the bunch but he didn’t have Dutch’s charisma or ability to control a room. He would have eventually lost control of Bill, Javier, and probably Sean.

This could have a part two, because Hosea had an illness, so what would happen if both Dutch and Hosea died, who would take over?

With Dutch being dead, the Pinkertons will let off the pressure and probably focus on Colm after he robs the train. The gang will lay low and probably grab the blackwater money and move West

I agree greatly truly Hosea was a legend to hold and having take the reigns after such a grand scenario of Dutch dying in blackwater and lending all those in the gang a ear and a hand to give them the true lives they deserve or can get the chance to live would be really a fantastic thing and I could only imagine a day for all them living the lives they wish and coming once in a while to speak to one another in a special place to enjoy each others company as not just a gang but one true family

Milton did say they only wanted Dutch even with other members wanted dead or alive laying low would’ve kept them safe for a very long time

Thank you so much for making these videos, I work a delivery job & I can now reliably have a source that talks about Red Dead 2 beyond “Check out this glitch! This is where this item is!!” Youre asking the best questions & providing the best speculation & I love listening to these while I work, I LOVE that you put in the reference clips. Keep up the great work. You’re making me keep this game installed currently on ps5, inspiring me to play this late night instead of something else

hosea would take over for just long enough to get everyone to safety then he will disband the gang and tell them to live a normal life kinda like Arthur in chapter 6, hosea already lost hope in the life of outlaws so he wouldn't want to go for more robberies and fight against the law and Dutch death will push that idea

I think Hosea likes using the more conman approach because it’s less noisy, but he will definitely throw down when it’s called for too. He’s definitely a don’t mistake his calmness for weakness or you will pay dearly.

The gang falls apart faster. The gang is connected by Dutch’s charm. Every single person is only there because of something Dutch did for them. It would splinter into factions and dissolve quicker than it did in the story without that single unifying star

If this had happened, would Arthur have been able to realise how to be a good man and have an arc similar to when he got TB? I feel Hosea would have helped him if the gang disbanded

Many are saying Micah would be totally out of the equation, but I disagree. It's pretty strongly implied throughout the game that the only thing Micah cares about throughout the time we know him is the Blackwater money, which is as good as gone with Dutch either not being alive to secure it or not living long enough to reveal the location of the stash. Micah's efforts will be for naught, and he would almost certainly be cast out by Hosea and Arthur, so he's going to want his pound of flesh. If Micah survived he would most likely begin operating as a direct enemy to the gang, either by ratting to the Pinkertons much earlier or by selling the gang out to the nearby O'Driscolls.

I'd say because Hosea also lived in the mountains or grew up in, it's very likely that he'd think the best way to lose them is in the mountains. They would've probably tried to block any roads to get away and force them to go north anyway. Micah would stay calm and be like as if he felt very bad for what happened and Javier if he was still there would demand revenge the most. By scouting the area, they would still find Sadie, but as already said, they'd just avoid any drama with the O'Driscoll's. Hosea already knew of Horseshoe Overlook and Valentine so they'd probably go there anyways, considering that the Pinkertons and bounty hunters would be all over the place and make it difficult for them to immediately move West as they would find out by sending scouts if they even tried to go West. Arthur would hold the gang together and they would look mostly to what he does and just follow him and Hosea would have to take his time to grief and think of what to do next and whatever happened to Sean and the guy they had. Hosea would rely on Arthur's opinion and they would both end up leading the gang with Hosea being the brain and Arthur being the force that holds everyone together as they would see him as reflection of Dutch because everyone knows he was his most trusted man next to Hosea. Hosea has his own personality and they'd see him more like a sweet Granddad. John would still get saved if he was lost and when Micah and Lenny go out scouting and Micah gets arrested, then he'd stay there and receive his punishment. Not just because they don't like him and blame him for a lot but also because they'd understand that showing up in West Elizabeth for him to free him from jail would be stupid and draw too much attention. The gang would stay together and Javier might think of going back to recover Dutch's body, but he might get calmed down and instead they'd find out about Sean and try to rescue him. Javier would be a bit more emotional and put a lot of pressure on saving John and Sean as he wouldn't want them to go out too and know that Dutch wouldn't want that neither. Arthur would probably have to talk with him sometimes to calm him down and make him focus and Javier would listen to him. They would give themselves some time and would probably move on a little more north near Ambarino to not let too many folks finding out that some people built a little settlement near Valentine. Hosea would still get in contact with Seamus because they need every way of making money. Before they leave, Hosea and Arthur would consider getting rid of Micah before he gets hanged, because they would think that if no one's coming, then he might tell them where they are to gain his freedom that way. Then they would look if the coast is clear to move on and if they see a way to slip through and go West to maybe Reno since they already were in Reno before, they might just move everyone out and have a few of the boys and maybe Karen too go rob the bank in Valentine to leave with a good amount of money to make a new start in Nevada. The Pinkertons wouldn't go so hard against them anyway, because with Agent Milton leading this operation, they would already be pleased enough with Dutch's death and would only hunt them down for the potential danger they still pose. The hunt for the O'Driscoll's would distract them a lot tho and that's what would clear the way for the gang to slip through because the O'Driscoll's would fight back very hard and with Cornwall being so pushy, they would have to spend most of their focus and men to join with the deputies and fight the O'Driscoll's and get Colm.

Cynic just dropped it's about to be a good day

I bet that members who were really attached to dutch, like susan, Bill, and micah, would all move on. after that, hosea would have actually fulfilled the plan, which was to lie low, then head out west, or go to the tropics. Edit: fixed my terrible spelling

The Matthews gang is a good name

Hey dude thank you so much for pointing out Hosea's attitude towards Catherine Braithewaite. I never looked at it that way despite my 4000 plus hours of RDR2. You're right. Hosea can be a hard man when he wants. Thanks dude.

This was great you should do a video on what if reverend swanson and uncle actually did something and how different the story would be if they were actually useful in some type of way(what there roles on helping the gang would be)

I wonder if Hosea might be willing to wait till Colm hits the train, and THEN bushwhacking Colm, let Colm take the heat from Cornwall AND take his score from him!

Plot twist..... In this version Dutch did die but he wasn't shot , he slipped on a bullet casing and cracked his own skull falling and died .

Onestly I think the gang was pretty much done after Blackwater. Dutch was the only thing keeping it together and it wouldn't matter what they did with Hosea. Sure, most of them would probably stick around, but even by keeping a low profile there was nothing they could do. Dutch's plan of going to Tahiti was delusional, but even more delusional was Hosea's plan to go back west: even if they somehow managed to do that, they couldn't escape the law forever. Where would they go? California? Seattle? Down south to Mexico? British Canada? The US was bringing down every last remaning gang and police forces were becoming better and better in tracking them and hunting them down and all of this was 8 years before the FBI was formed. Even if they somehow managed to reach Tahiti or some other "tropical paradise" it would have been the same old story for them: the game clearly shows you that supposedly "untamed" places like Guarma are struggling against the US and other imperialist Powers and it's obviously a war they can't win. Hosea would have (at best) delayed the gang demise of a couple of years IF they all layed low and didn't commit any major crime, which is almost impossible if we consider people like Micah, Sean or Bill always trying to prove themselves or some shit like that.

I feel like another positive thing that could’ve possibly come out of this scenario is that it definitely would’ve reduced the heat on the gang as a whole. In many instances during the game, the leader of a gang was killed or captured and after the elimination of the leader the remaining members of the gang were mostly forgotten about by the Law. After the death of Colm, it seems like the Law mostly stopped caring about the remaining members of the O’driscoll gang. In the case of some of the bounties the player went after, there would be bounty posters showing an enforcer for the gang in particular and then the leader soon after, then once the leader was captured bounty posters for the specific gang stopped being posted. If Dutch was eliminated, the rest of the gang probably wouldn’t have as much heat on them because it seems like the law in this version of America essentially just decides that “it isn’t worth the resources” once taking out the main leaders of a gang (they may start caring sometime later down line, but the gang will have time to make plans for that).

This is interesting. I personally don't think anyone but Hosea could become the leader if Dutch died. He's as much of a father figure to Arthur as Dutch was so he'd have Arthur's complete loyalty. That alone would stop anyone, except maybe Bill but who knows with Bill, from challenging Hosea to become the leader. I really don't think anyone would though. Long term I think Hosea would probably achieve the goal of leading the gang out west and buying some land. I think that would end the gang though. I can't see Bill, Javier, or Kenny settling down to a quiet life. Miss Grimshaw, Pearson, Abigail, and Grandpa would most likely stay. Charles and the rest are all maybes but I think most would depend on the situation. Depending on how things went with John I could even see Arthur leaving after Hosea died. I think that's the real reason Dutch didn't buy the land before Blackwater, he knew it would be the end of the gang.

Someone needs to do a full what if stroy for this

Like uncle, Hosea is an old man in a profession where young men die.

from playing this Red Dead Redemption 2 game and taking my time with the game, I think that if Hosea was in charge he wouldn't rob the train, he would have creative plan on getting the money from Blackwater without violence but con with stealth approach, would have focus on instructing Strauss to target corrupt businessman with debt instead of people who are poor, could have cared for the women including children, and many others. Also what I like about Hosea is how he cared for the members of the gang, pointed out the flaws of Dutch including Micah when they would cause destruction with criminal obsession, helping Arthur on advice for life, and many others. I think that Hosea would have come up with a better plan to recover the Blackwater money like using creative approach like master of disguise, stealth approach, and many others. Also if Hosea was in charge I think he would have left Micah to rot in jail for being selfish to the gang, causing pain with his criminal obsession, and many others.

Red Dead Redemption would be about Jack Marston leaving the town or ranch the gang formed somewhere out West called Dutchosea after having a great time growing up but having to find his own life and purpose out there, having to lead the new generation of members and defend them from remaining gangs and former members who went rogue (maybe Bill Williamson) finally learning to be a real man out there

Hosea always struck me of the definition of “don’t take my kindness for weakness”. He’s still one of the better gunslingers in the gang and by far the smartest. He just doesn’t tend to display the raw cultish charisma of Dutch and definitely showed more love to the group. It isn’t stated outright but I always assumed that Hosea taught John and Arthur how to read and write for example. Not because it’s useful for the gang (though it was) but because it would give them the best shots at life.

Everybody that knew how to take advantage of Dutch's weakness for grandeur and illusion did - Hosea was absolutely smart enough to do so and likely was a driving force in keeping what Dutch became at bay for many many years. That means he was likely the real leader of the gang, because ultimately he was Dutch's advisor and mentor. Having said that by 1899 there wasn't much untamed west left and the gang found themselves in ever increasingly industrial land, the days of an outlaw gang were numbered, regardless of who ran the show. We see a peak into what an alternative narrative could have looked like with in the Epilogue, when a gang is primarily using economic force to increase their wealth and numbers, strong arming smaller ranchers to hand over their lands or run them out. If the gang had stayed together with Hosea at the helm that's the direction he would have taken them.

When I think about the characters of Hosea and Dutch, I’d say they are both smart, intelligent leaders in different areas and ways. When it comes to making a move on a lead Dutch seems the sort to go in half cocked I suppose, like with the supposed post office heist of Saint Denis, Dutch immediately took the opportunity to rob the place without any investigation and just takes Bronte’s word for it. Hosea seems the type to play the game intelligently, he waits for a good lead, a good opportunity and plays it carefully instead of carelessly pouncing on every situation like a predator unaware that it’s pouncing on a trap. Dutch is a great leader who can influence people like no other, he is very well spoken and picks his words carefully, Dutch always comes across as kind but strong and would happily blow an innocents woman’s brains out on a ferry. For Hosea he lacks the strong leader part as he’s very old and even decrepit due to his illness, he will speak wisdom to those who want to hear it and can influence those with a conscience, he would certainly struggle to influence 🐀, Bill and Javier, as their mindless loyalty to Dutch would probably shake them enough that they might just disappear. If Dutch died and Hosea assumed leadership I reckon the whole time that the events that RDR2 span across would be spent laying low and taking some small easy picking here and there.

Nice video once again

House burning, Braithwaite dying, says “MISTER!” Hosea: Mathewwwss - 😅❤

You know what this would have been interesting if we had a game showing this alternate route where dutch is killed and hosea is the leader and micah becomes priority one to put an end to if he does not cooperate and knowing how hosea saw some of them we would see either see bill siding with micah and pull something similar as the o driscols and those who choose to go with hosea, arthur for sure as his right hand, and lenny as the brains of this new gang, sadie might be somewhere in this as well as charles there is an alternate story that might sound interesting just to see where it all goes.

Hosea had already left the life once before and I think he sees opportunities the rest of the gang are too short sighted to see any longer. I think he would stick to the plan of laying low, move west and disband once everyone was safe in their new life.

Great analysis. People often underestimate characters like Hosea in real life because of the general black or white thinking we humans possess. It preserves energy but makes us easy prey for evildoers who spend all their energy analyzing all your characteristics until they know you inside out and utterly destroy you.

Good video boy, good video

thinking on it now, Bill might still go and make his own gang if he's too stubborn or heck even be the one to put Micah down cause most would likely blame him for Dutch's death like you say, Javier might try & help the rest or start living off somewhere tolerable and be a drifter and wouldn't have gone crazy as he did in rdr1 while Arthur & Hosea try and support John & his family as best they can and Uncle might even step up once Arthur's symptoms start getting worse and Sadie & Charles would've stayed a bit longer,,,,

hearing this version of hosea being a leader makes it seem like he could be red harlow if it isn't uncle or john.

Hosea: “Arthur, Micah’s been arrested in Strawberry they’re going to hang him” Arthur: “And?” Hosea: “nothing just making conversation”

I love how arthur can get on his horse and travel from far north to the extreme south then east and west across the entire country but it takes sooo much effort and money to get the gang out of there. Why they couldn't just start going wherever they want while doing whatever to get money as they go is stupid. Needing one last score is the reason they were destroyed.

It stands to reason that arthur wouldn't have gotten TB because events would be just different enough **at least** without dutch constantly bearing down about money, arthur may not have ever really taken on strauss's jobs. I think hosea would potentially give blackwater some time, and then try to retrieve that money.

“What if Hosea was the leader of the van der Lin gang?” Rdr1 would be half an hour long

If they would add this alternate reality as a DLC that'd be 🔥🔥🔥. Would love to play it and see how it turns out.

Theres also random encounters at camp where random people show and Hosea is the one defusing the situation

This is interesting because I don't know if most of the people on the Blackwater job would have stuck together. Micah was there to take advantage of Dutch, Javier was loyal to him, Sean seemed to have a great deal of respect for him too. John was also pretty shaky often doubtful. Hosea didn't have the command that Dutch did and was more a senior advisor at times.

Everyone has a limit for their patience, including hosea

I feel like with Dutch dead and up in the mountains. I feel like Hosea would push Arthur to start actually thinking for himself and start pushing Arther to start thinking like Hosea did in Clemens Point Because when you read Arthur’s journal, he’ll actually say in it how he considers Hosea his actual father figure and with Dutch out of the way (a master class manipulator and the only reason Arthur starts picking up on his manipulations is because of his limited time) Arther would start to act more and more like the person he wants to be and not who he thinks he is. So long story short, Hosea would fill Dutch’s position as the leader, Arther would fill in Hosea’s spot after some personal growth, and John might take Arther’s position as the enforcer.

While Hosea may have taken over I think he would have started the transition to Arthur becoming the leader quickly. Hosea knows his time is short and Arthur would have been the best choice. The gang might lose Micha, Bill, and Javier but with them gone even less noise would be made making an escape much more possible. Arthur, John, Charles, perhaps Sadie (depending on if they still found her) would still make a solid core eventually ending in a larger Beachers hope style ranch. Perhaps settling in hanging dog ranch?

I think the gang would have been better off without Dutch. The gang would not have to deal with Dutch's ego that got the gang into a lot of bad situations.

My third playthrough got me wishing I had a dad like Hosea 😂

I also think that Sadie would’ve never joined the gang, because the search for John was held by Dutch, Micah, and Dutch before they found the Addler residence and Micah burnt it down. If it were just Arthur, as of your prospect that Micah would be kicked or killed, then he would just go with Javier to find him and would focus on that alone.

I’ve actually put a lot of thought into what I would do in Dutch’s position, 1 hit the O’Driscoll camp in the mountains (to steal the dynamite.) 2 I would leave the mountains and forget about the train job(they just kicked a hornet’s nest in blackwater more heat is a bad idea all the robberies in chapter two would still happen. There was no Cornwall robbery so the valentine shootout doesn’t happen. I would still move on to Scarlett Meadows for new score opportunities. But no Cornwall stage job. The bank in Valentine and that one stagecoach job would still happen and shady belle would be cleared. And I would have played one side of that feud to pick off the other side than deal with the remaining one. Chapter 4 I would hit the riverboat casino and the bank. And then I’d move to Mexico. (Maybe that job stealing dynamite in van horn would still happen to blow the bridge to get the law distracted

You should make a video like this but what if Arthur lead the gang

Yesterday, i watched Bill and Hosea have a heart to heart. Hosea told Bill that he is a good guy that was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Bill was touched, walked away, then Hosea started laughing at Bills lack of picking up on his sarcasm.

I think if this was the scenario Hosea would want Arthur to leave with Mary, or Mary would join the gang again with them living passive lives and would probably use the remaining money to buy a huge ranch after Arthur meeting with her the first time I like the Way you said Hosea would try to send the gang to live their lives, he takes on the tole Arthur does in Beaver Hollow

Hoseas got that grandpa energy.

Dutch ? Dutch ? DUTCH ! DUUUUTTTTCCCCHHHH. ARTHUR YOU CREATED A TIME PARADOX !!!!

4:02 no, the event that resulted in law enforcement chasing them was blackwater. choosing to go to the mountains had nothing to do with it.

The best What If i could think of is what if Dutch admired Arthur/Charles plan where they were helping out the Natives as they were trying to be legitimate with the Reservation. I think having the Gang living with the Natives would've been a great diversion towards the Pinkertons because if Rains Fall convinced the Army to live freely than the Pinkertons cant hunt down the gang because free Natives would be at its crossfire - causing the Pinkertons to crumble

To add on to that I feel Hosea would’ve sent someone like Sadie or anyone in the gang who’s face isn’t plastered on wanted posters to go and grab the money from blackwater before heading out went then to whoever wants to leave he would give them a cut to help them start a new life and I feel like Hosea would probably just let Micah be hanged in strawberry due to the fact he would get the law’s attention on the gang

Highly doubt the gang would have been together the same way. Hosea was ready to retire, but Dutch was obsessed with that one last big score that could easily set up their retirement. I don't think Hosea would have left outright, but I think he would have taken the lead for anyone that wanted out to get out and live a more honest life, possibly doing small scores if they come as a given rather than looking for opportunities for illegal activity. For example, Hosea and Shamus: Hosea took a job where he had all the details, could get in good with an individual that could potentially help them and had their blessing when they were family to the victim, and no possible fallout unless caught in the act. I'm thinking he would have split the gang into two by trying to tone down the activity of the gang. The ones who wanted a more peaceful, normal life would go with Hosea. The ones still stuck in their outlaw ways would have carried on as the remnants of the Van Der Linde gang. Micah, Bill, Javier, possibility even Sean and Pearson. It seems to me Pearson wasn't the biggest fan of Hosea based on their interactions and he was originally saved from loan sharks by the gang, so he might feel indebted to the ones still wanting to put up a fight rather than Hosea and the women. John is even a possibility at this point of the story, he might have either stayed with the remnants or went back and forth between groups since even in the epilogue he was having a hard time not doing bad things. It has nothing to do with their feelings of Hosea, it's just they aren't ready to go quite yet. I just highly doubt he would have been planning big heists and all that. He might even discourage others from doing that after Dutch's death.

Arthur + Hosea would take the lead they complete each other so good some would leave the gang but the rest will be loyal guys like kenny john charles swanson maybe strauss and a lot of them girls ofc and they are the oldest members of the gang i think

One thing is sure for certain micah isnt gonna be a part of the gang if this was the case

i thought this was a metaphorical death, like the real dutch died in blackwater and we’re seeing the shell of his former self

Telling you, I would never have seen him as the boss. Kind of like a consigliere in the mob. One certainly not to be crossed, but operates primarily as an advisor. The leader in this sense would be Arthur, whose decisions would be run by Hosea to examine the different angles/scenarios. The nature of their gang was a tight knit group, requiring a very engaged boss who could act quickly without hesitation. That's Arthur in spades. One of the biggest tragedies of the gang was they were led by a delusional egomaniac. Arthur was the best leader who never was.

Hosea's spiel to John is the same spiel Arthur gives to John at the end of the game.

Hosea would probably kick some of the members the gang. I did think bill would try to convince him let him stay and Hosea would allow it

What was the Immediate aftermath of chapter 6 with the gang? Clearly the gang still existed to some part after Arthur's death and the following days. Abigail, John & Jack were still around. Uncle was there, same with Javier, Charles, a lot of the women, and others too. So far I've seen no one attempt to do this subject. At the very least, i see that the gang would have likely still tried to make it out together for the next few days if not a week or so. Especially considering Dutch likely wouldn't just leave everything all together right after the death of Arthur and the pinkertons.

If he survived Dutch wouldn’t have gone crazy

If Dutch died and Hosea had to take over, he definitely head west and definitely stay low. I don't see him abandoning anyone who comes with him and with Hosea he seems more of teacher than Dutch is. During their time staying low he'll probably try to get Arthur, John, and Lenny to help make the bigger decisions and having them make some decisions. Which will give Hosea more time to gather information in Blackwater, more then likely he'll get in touch with Trelawny and with him being conman they'll get along. Hosea's goal like Dutch's is money but instead of causing trouble in a new place for the gang he may spend of most of his time trying to sneak back into Blackwater to get the stash. As for difference in the game most big loud jobs like bank robbing will have a more quite approach or won't happen. I can see Hosea getting Arthur with Trelawny to be snake oil salesmen. To make quick cash. I see more night time burglary like with the stagecoach. Maybe even selling/creating fake bonds. These are some game elements I could see happen if Hosea was in charge. As for story, major changes will happen to some characters and the ending. For story If they head west they'll pass Strawberry and escape Big Valley, when things get quite I can see Hosea moving in closer he may have Arthur and the boys take over the Hanging Dog Ranch and from there Hosea will began his plan to get the Blackwater stash. Once they get the stash then it's the end the boys either live or die. Micah could betray them by ratting them out to the Pinkertons and/or steal the stash for himself and run. The game/story could continue with either Arthur or John hunting Micah down for the money. Arthur won't get TB if they head west because they won't be stopping in Valentine. As for characters most will stay the same but some would have growth like Sean. Once he return he will also be getting the same lessons/treatment like Arthur, John, and Lenny. Then for Micah he won't will last long. Arthur will blame him for Dutch's death and maybe Javier as well since he was with them on the ferry. And knowing Micah he is very loud, prideful, and violent he may see Hosea as nothing more than an old man and try to take over. Which will be the end of him. Next is Molly and she is literally only their for Dutch, without Dutch she may leave on her own or Hosea/Arthur/any of the girl characters could help her overcome that loss and move on. If that happens I would like to see Molly open up more at camp and get along with the other girls or she could become like Sadie in chapter 3, Next is Bill who is like a diet Micah loud, prideful, and violent but it can be controlled/contained and he has respect for Hosea, when he isn't drunk. So him staying is 50/50 if he does stay I think Hosea may send him off with Lenny/Sean as backup both of them being the youngest and still learning the outlaw/conman way. Next is Sadie who may have the worse outcome, if two things don't happen. 1 The gang doesn't go up north to lay low and 2 Micah is the one who spotted her home. So if Hosea decides to head North instead of West and Micah hasn't been shot/run off then Sadie will be like her canon self. Lastly is Kieran who more then likely will not be joining the gang because. He is only caught after the gang attacks the o'driscoll camp in the north and if by some way he is caught, Hosea may kill him so the gang can continue to lay low or he could be pull a Dutch and slowly "persuade" him to join the gang. As for character death I don't see it Happening with Hosea in charge. Hosea is experienced he knows when to hit and when to keep your head down.

I remember seeing Hosea draw his gun on bill and told him to go sober up, at that time Hosea was cemented him as a leader even more so than Dutch because he is old and knows he's got a few decent years left...he's lived, loved and experienced a whole lot. Arthur, John, Javier, Charles, Lenny would definitely stay for a while until the women and children are safe and I'll go into more detail bout most the characters and what they'd do. Who knows Micah would probably leave to form his own gang (and ngl he'd probably get a big score and disapper or die trying). Bill would most likely stay for a while but then go off on his own and live a life as a gunmen for hire or get picked off by the pinkertons. Sadie would probably go off into the bounty hunting business and make a name for herself. The girls would flourish in the city and I believe the 3 would go look for love and a career. John and his family, Uncle included could very well go to a nicer place and settle on a farm but not blackwater. Hosea and Arthur would probably stay together for a while until Hosea may convince him to find Marry and live out his life with her. whilst Hosea could teach Lenny a whole lot more and after hosea passes he stays like close little brother to Arthur. Charles could very well go with John or something along the lines of livinga normal life. The rest would just become citizens like Pierce and Tranlawney, Strauss. Sean would probably die to hanging as the crew wouldn't find him but if they did he'd go off with Karen somewhere. but this is all subjected to my opinion but this is if they all manged to get away...a truly unheard of ending in western times.

I think Hosea's death is what hit Dutch the hardest as after san de ney Dutch is a completely changed man

Losing dutch would have been the best thing that could have happened to them at that moment. He starts making terrible decisions and listening to micah after blackwater. If they had hosea they would have been much less stupidly risky

The Pinkertons would be after the O'Driscolls because of the train heist and, with Dutch dead, Blackwater probably woudn't be on lockdown. If we asume Hosea to not have any issues taking the money that killed Dutch, the gang would have returned for the Blackwater money then vanished like Dutch wanted. Or more likely tracked down like John was in the original because one of the themes of both games is the Wild West dying.

I feel like Micah would prolly just leave if Dutch dies because he’s got nobody to manipulate to make a buck off the gang because obviously Hosea is sound of mind and would be a lot harder of a person to get into their head

I’m not saying Hosea’s a saint far from it, but I think he wouldn’t want the gang to be a “gang” because he only seems open to doing small stuff like houses and stage coach robberies as we’ve heard in the mission with Seamus. *let’s not talk about the bank job in Saint Denis* If the Pinkertons found the gang and wanted Hosea to be turned in I think he would’ve accepted it and not wanting the gang to get hurt.

If I'm honest, Hosea probably would've given up pretty early. Not like, the instant they get out of the mountains, but he would pretty quickly let the women and children go and once it was down to him and Arthur (and a few others of course) he would've told everybody to just seperate and hide. Then John would've had to help the law kill off Arthur, Micah, and Hosea. Basically the same thing that ultimately happened to Dutch, but much earlier, and a few more people would've lived because Hosea can see the writing on the wall.

If hosea was in charge, would he have kicked the money lender out? Thus meaning Arthur wouldnt pass, and Arthur surviving having a knock on effect to John?

If we consider the idea that a story HAS to happen, this tale where Dutch dies in Blackwater, I think the Pinkertons definitely become less of if not a problem at all, but Micah becomes an antagonistic force kind of like Dutch in RDR1, maybe worse. We want to believe he'd be easy to deal with but when a story needs to happen, it'll happen. If we hate Micah now, we would hate him even more in this alternate timeline. He'd turn into a menace and still be the cause of much tragedy for the Matthews gang.

It's not just that he could do it he should do it he would be better at being leader

If Hosea was in charge we wouldn't have a video game. Or... we would have what John has in the epilogue. Which is grinding ranch chores for 8 bucks a day.

Micah and probably bill and molly would leave they are only there for dutch outside of that mostly everybody else would stay

Micah might still be jailed, I doubt either Hosea or Arthur would try to bust him out, that was Dutch's idea.