What if you don't want a Thunderbird? The search for 9/5/0/2 | Flight Numbers Don’t Matter 

Thanks! We are a sponsor of the disc golf club at Ohio State and that is their fundraiser stamp on a Prodigy Spectrum A2, we have a couple still in stock, just not as awesome as that purple one!

Yes! My tesla at least flies almost exactly like the thunderbirds I've thrown

Thanks for the tip! I'm sure it depends on the plastic/run but I had only had one Tesla available, it was a Proton lab second from the gyropalooza box and it was SOOOOO overstable it wasn't worth mentioning, though we did throw it.

No. A tesla is more overstable. I have both in my bag and don't really use the tesla much.

@@SixSidedDiscs what about big z vulture. I Know it's a 10 speed but it's flatter making it feel smaller than thunderbirds. Flys the same for me.

@@SixSidedDiscs also COSMIC Neutron lift is pretty close

My hunch is that since fission is a naturally lighter weight plastic if you get a heavier weight fission a higher percentage of the weight is in the rim rather than the core which makes the disc more stable.

We're gonna have to test it! You and several others have suggested it, thanks for the tip!

I bag two first run Volts ( bought when they first released,pre flight #'s neutron) and have tryed every plastic since plus the 10yr anniversary release. The closest I have found to the orginal flight is lighter fission Volts. All of the Volts I tryed I have sold or traded away and just keep my O.G Volts.

We'll have to put it on the list for round 2 in the future! I'm not sure we had any around at the time we tested or not.

@@SixSidedDiscs Well actually nevermind :D. I just found out the manufacturer has it labeled as 7 5 0 3. Those numbers above are from one of my local shops. Since I throw quite far, this is my go to driver for 100-120m throws and when I saw the followflight of the Thunderbird, this was the disc that came to mind immediately.

Hey John, Ledgestone Insurance is a company based in East Peoria, IL, the Ledgestone Insurance Open (often referred to as Ledgestone) is a DGPT tournament at Eureka Lake and Northwood, 2 long-time pro level courses with various layouts, which has also hosted Worlds in the past. How that relates to specific runs of discs is that Nate Heinold, Ledgestone Disc Golf CEO, is very close with Discraft and they run thousands of specialty plastic blends and unique stamps throughout the year to raise money for the Ledgestone tournament, the largest amateur tournament in the world (if I'm not mistaken). The blends of plastic they run for Ledgestone are not stock plastic and sometimes aren't used for anything else, which can make them very sought-after if they have a certain stability or look/feel that players can't otherwise get from Discraft.

Its hard to get the 800 rated thrower (me lol) to release discs consistently enough haha but worth a try!

@@SixSidedDiscs Love to see you throw in the video, give it a shot. I saw Robbie C recently do a MA-3 Tourney commentary and it was one of my favorite videos. Helped me finish top-5 in my league recently, and is a nice separator as most content online is geared towards MPO arms. Once again, thanks for the time you put into these.

Ahhh, huzzah! I honestly picked the Vulture based on flight numbers (I know, I know) and I was super surprised they picked it as the closest. Side note, do you have relatives in Ohio? I know some Christenberry's

Thanks for subscribing! Glad you enjoyed the video, the format will definitely continue. The Feedback sounds interesting! Might be a good like for like!

Well I would love to say we immediately sold out of Vultures, but alas, we still have plenty! One thing I'm certain of is that long time Innova throwers are almost cult-ish about Innova discs, especially older runs of Innova discs. They won't be swayed by our conclusions lol

Thanks for watching, glad you're enjoying it! I'm not sure if we have any endgame from this series, or a specific goal, other than awareness. However, I would love to see more manufacturers adjust flight numbers for the plastic, it is a huge oversight for new players that is learned through potentially expensive trial and error.

@@SixSidedDiscs completely agree. Some sort of benchmark sport-wide would be amazing but it'll probably never happen. I feel like even though not everyone could throw the same as that benchmark, it would at least give you something concrete to compare your flights to. I'm not a power thrower, but if I knew how much off I was from a benchmark, I could just apply that to each disc. Idk if that makes sense, but it's just a pipe dream anyway.

Glad you're enjoying the content, thanks for watching! Love the mention of just swapping to another disc as a Star vs Champion slot, I've done this with other molds before. I'm not a huge Innova fan personally, I've thrown a lot of their discs in the last few years but I'm not a huge fan of their plastics so I usually end up with that sort of scenario where I want a "Firebird" but straighter and so I have an ESP Raptor or something like that

I replied to another comment about the Tesla, basically we only had one in stock (Lab Second Proton) and it was mega overstable so we decided not to compare it further in this video. Hopefully in a future video though!

Can you reply to comments with gifs and memes yet? Words can't do it justice. I respect the dad jokes, as an expert on the subject.

@@SixSidedDiscs 😂

I bagged both a Star Thunderbird and an S Line PD and after awhile I wasn't sure had both, I think I convinced myself that I liked the PD for big high hypers but not for lower flat shots

The scenario that I presented at the start of this video is one I run into all the time where someone will specifically NOT buy a disc because "of the numbers", even if I try to explain that that specific plastic doesn't fly that way, or that the numbers are wrong. There's so many great examples we want to test and show like that 5/5/0/3 or 4/4/0/3 midrange slot that "flies straight"...well if it flies straight, why isn't it a 0/0 or -1/1? - People say, "Well you just know that the Roc/Roc3, or Method, or 5/5/0/2 or 5/5/0/3 stuff is straight", well some people just DONT lol I can only educate someone at a pop up shop until they are tired of hearing me ramble on about these little intricacies, and imagine explaining that to someone new to the sport. Oof

because youre an amateur with a mediocre throw and release. the numbers are meant for players above your skill level where the discs are thrown with enough power to properly replicate the numbers. if you throw putters and mids youll find them to be completely spot on the numbers for your arm strength (assuming you're not just awful and have a super inconsistent release).

@derp derpin that's simply not the case. I have had several mids and putters with identicle numbers that fly very differently. I've had 2 of the same disc fly pretty differently. Idk why you felt the need to come in here all defensive and put me down but sorry man, you're just incorrect on this.

I would love to do one on the Wraith, the Wraith is a tricky one, I think the most I know about it personally is that it flies really far for players with the power to get it going, and I also know the plastic can have a huge impact (Halo vs Star vs Champion, etc) but as with all these videos, I start with an idea, we go to a course/field and start throwing and then the story of the video reveals itself so obviously we just need to get out there and throw!

Ask and you shall receive! Thanks for the kind words!

The Saint is one of those discs that I wanted to test in this video but we just didn't have any in stock right now. Putting it on the list for a follow up!

Thanks for watching and glad you liked it! We don't claim to know everything but its fun to experiment and see what we can learn! (Stay tuned for another new one very soon!)

Thanks for the suggestions! Every time we do one of these videos we get a ton of great suggestions on other discs so I'm sure we'll end up back at the same flight numbers multiple times to test a few more and see how they compare.

I used to throw a 400 FX-2, after I retired my 750 Dickerson USDGC FX-2 when he signed it, and I liked them both, I stopped throwing the 400 one because the plastic was seeping all that white powdery goodness and getting way too grippy. Other FX-2's I've tried were a bit more overstable, and my arm speed is WAY down from last year when I could actually get it to hold straight.

As a LHBH thrower, I'm unreasonably overjoyed by this.

Haha it wasn’t intentional unless your a lefty in which case yes, 100%

Thanks for watching and for asking! It depends of course but at least 5 or so throws each until we feel like we are seeing how that specific disc flies. Some videos have taken more, some less.

This is another thing that goes under the radar. Just how different a disc can feel from one person to another. I've never felt a Thunderbird that worked with my forehand grip, it always feels a little too deep and digs into my hand along the inside edge of the rim.

Thanks John! Glad you like it, there will be more!

When we do tournament payouts, we bring about 700 discs + accessories, bags, etc. It is not uncommon for players in the last payout division to be searching for "discs like X or Y" because the rest sold earlier, and they don't want to miss out on their free plastic. This is a very frequent scenario for me that definitely extends beyond the Thunderbird.

We actually threw it in a Teebird comparison video very recently!

I have not but it sounds like we need to add that to a list for a follow up on this video!

I'm sure you've met some people that "won't throw anything over a 10" or something like that, I hear it all the time. at tournament payouts, "I can't throw 13 speeds" but of course, not all 13 speeds are the same, and the Vulture probably turns a few people off just because its a 10 speed.

@@SixSidedDiscs most amateurs can't throw 13 speeds. that's literally why there's people like you spreading the misinformation that the numbers don't matter. the numbers aren't made for the average players arm strength and lack of technique and inconsistent releases. the disc will do different things than the numbers state for the majority of players with the game having such a large casual following now, the system isn't for them.

weird i've found them to be very close to spot on. it's always people who don't understand them (or people with an inconsistent throw/release/bad aim) that say they're useless.