WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THRASH AND SPEED METAL? (Genre differences) 

Make heavy faster, you get speed, make speed more agressive, you get thrash, make speed more melodic, you get power

Back in 82-83 when metal bands began getting faster (because of the influence of Punk and Motorhead) we just called it Speed Metal. Later it split into Thrash and Power Metal. So Speed Metal was just a transitional label we slapped on the bands that played faster and more aggressively than the NWOBHM bands...At one point we even tossed around Power Metal, hence the very early description of Metallica as such. Back then metal was just beginning to split into the first tier of sub genres and we were figuring out what to call the new sounds. So as an old dude lived it , I can say categorically that Speed Metal gave rise to Thrash, they are NOT parallel forms.

Ironically, thrash often sounds faster than speed

The confusion between the two styles derives from the fact that in the early 80s we only had the word 'speed metal' which we applied to everything that was faster and louder than NWOHBM-style metal: Metallica, Venom. It took quite a while (at least, it did in NL) for the term 'thrash' to appear

How I'd make the distinction is that "Speed Metal" is a pure subgenre of "Heavy Metal" that's been significantly "sped-up" especially in how the drums are played. "Thrash Metal" is a fusion-genre of (hardcore) Punk Rock music and Heavy Metal music.

Gotta love Metal Church for blending the two so perfectly well. Incredible sound on their Metal Church debut album. Imo the best metal debut album

My fav speed metal album ever: Helloween - Walls of Jericho... before the morph into power metal

A topic that has been on my mind quite a bit lately.

Here in Poland we have a old metal band called Turbo. This band started in 1980. Through the years the played started from early 80s Hard Rock/heavy metal, then speed metal, thrash (1985-1987) and then thrash/death and even death metal in late 80/beginning 90, then in 90 they played modern heavy metal to power metal, and even symphonic metal. The best albums of them for me are: Turbo - Kawaleria Szatana Turbo - Ostatni Wojownik (last warrior) Turbo - epidemic Turbo - Dorosłe dzieci Helloween with Walls of Jericho/Judas ep is for sure not speed metal, nor thrash, but pure 80's heavy metal. They play power metal. By the way Pantera has an album called Power Metal. Greetings from Poland from old Helloween fan

Speed ​​Metal is based on the fast paced songs of Judas Priest and Thrash is based on Punk and Hardcore ... in my opinion

Its all heavy metal to me. Some heavier than others, some faster than others, we're all in it together.

All I know is that Painkiller is the perfect speed metal song

Since Dave Mustaine the Godfather and Inventor of "Thrash" called his own music in Metallica and early Megadeth "Speed Metal" in many interviews, it is safe to say that this is how Thrash Metal bands identified themselves. When the term "Thrash" came into term, they more or less identified with the term. I am pretty convinced that the term "speed metal" came earlier (and I bet my money, it was Dave Mustaine who introduced it, for a fact it is stated by him as early as 1982 or so...) than "thrash: and it would be interested to see where the term "Thrash" derived from...and by whom.

To me Thrash had more grooves that made you want to bang your head, more tempo changes throughout a song as well.

Now we need hair metal vs glam metal 😅

Love the Vio-lence outro. Possibly the most underrated thrash album of all time

Speed metal vocals can usually be described as actual singing. Thrash metal vocals can usually be described as yelling in key.

they were interchangeable back in the 80s. I had a compilation album called "Speed Kills - The Very Best of Speed Metal" it had Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Venom, Exodus, Exciter, Voi Vod and a couple other bands on it. I also remember getting a Megadeth poster that said "The State of the Art Speed Metal Band". All the same to me. I consider Lemmy the Godfather of Thrash before Hetfield, Mustaine or Cronos.

In Summary, Speedsters are the bastard sons of Judas Priest, while the Thrashers are the bastard children of Motorhead!!! Enjoy your Metal 🤘🏼

In the 80s here in So Cal, I never heard the term Thrash Metal. It was Speed Metal to us at that time. Thrash didn't enter the lexicon here until the early 90s. I always just figured Thrash was an updated term for Speed Metal. The more you know!

This has been the biggest issue I have been struggling with in my life since the 1980's. Now that the Speed vs Thrash Metal debate has been resolved I can move on with my life. 😆 Thanks! KEEP ON ROCKING! 🤘

To be frank, Exciter's piece of a song on 3:19 feels like thrash and match thrash's definition and style. It reminds Metallica with Mustaine in No Life 'Till Leather times, especially the riff which resembles Hit the Lights.

Nice video, it's always been hard to tell Speed from Thrash, specially in the big four. I'll say most of the confusion is because around 81-83, Metallica, Anthrax and Slayer started as faster and more technical mixtures of NWOBHM and punk, without caring much for giving the style a name. Then, Metallica kicked Mustaine out (according to Scott Ian, the inventor of the thrash metal riffing and the "Hetfield before Hetfield") and his way to get even was to play faster and more aggressively than them (I'd say even more technically), so it's natural that he called his style "Speed Metal". As the 80s went on, these bands developed and expanded their sonic spectrum, experimenting with slower, punchier sounds and with more chromatic harmonies, far from Heavy Metal's Minor Pentatonic scale, making it much harder to say whether they were Speed or Thrash. But this ultimately separated them from the bunch that stayed the same (Exodus, Overkill), hence their wide influence: as Thrash/Speed metal bands, they influenced a second wave of great thrash metal bands all over the world: Testament, Annihilator, Kreator, Sepultura, Pantera, etc. Metallica and Megadeth, the more progressive, cleaner acts, influenced Prog Metal of all sorts: Dream Theater, Messhuggah, Gojira, etc. Slayer, the most evil, through their twisted chromaticisms and the amazing drumming of Dave Lombardo influenced Death Metal, 2nd-wave Black Metal, Scandinavian Metal, etc. Anthrax (and their spin-offs Nuclear Assault, S.O.D) influenced Hardcore Punk, Grindcore (Charlie Benante gets credit for the blast beat) and then Groove Metal, Rap Metal and Nu Metal. So, hard to say. Speed or Thrash?

This video gives the best explanation of both sub-genres. I've said for decades that thrash and speed metal are interchangeable terms. However, there are differences between the subgenres. Thrash is more abrasive, with a strong hardcore punk influence. Speed metal is fast but draws more from traditional heavy metal than punk rock. I'd argue Megadeth straddles the line between thrash and speed metal. "Hangar 18" is a speed metal song, but "Devil's Island" is a thrash track.

Dude you included Holy Terror! It's so rare to hear about them anywhere so thumbs up for that. Mind wars is probably in the top 50 metal albums ever made.

Metal Chruch 🤘🏻🤘🏻

I was a skateboarder in Pennsylvania/Maryland from the mid 80's to the mid 90's. Skating was also referred to as Thrashing by some, possibly because of the well loved skate publication "Thrasher" (founded 1981). Of course, as a counter-culture, we only used this term in a tongue-in-cheek manner. In my community, what we now call "Thrash" music was primarily what we listened to. The tempo and aggressive sound go perfectly with skating. It also put you in a zone where shedding a little blood wasn't going to slow you down, but give you the rush and will to push harder. I always figured the namesake of the music genre came about from that very association. Crossover bands like Suicidal Tendencies, S.O.D., and D.R.I., as well as hardcore bands were loved by the group, but Thrash was at the core -- at least in my group, in the 80's. It took hardcore a while to get to us. For reference, I was born in 1977. I started listening to Thrash and skating in 1986.

Back in the 80's, terms "speed metal" and "thrash metal" was used interchangeably although the term "speed metal" was used much less than the term "thrash metal."(In fact, the term "Speed metal" was used less and less throughout the 80's) Speed is part of characteristic in thrash. But there were certain thrash metal bands who utilized speed more than others. That caused some people to refer to those bands as "speed metal" bands. But people did that within thrash metal umbrella. But like I said, the term "speed metal" lost its meaning because the term "thrash metal" was way more preferred term. I remember talking with my friends about "What really is speed metal?" And we really didn't had any answers.

This is DannyShipman from Reality Check TV in san Francisco. As someone who was there in the beginning,in it's infancy thrash metal,speed metal,power metal,and even death metal all meant the same thing. Anything satanic was black metal but could be labeled thrash i it was super fast and heavy. personally, I always viewed Metal Church as good 'ol heavy metal like Armored Saint or Grim Reaper. Too heavy for glam rockers but too slow for thrashers.

Speed Metal developed earlier as a genre. For example, listen to the first Anthrax release. Then listen to the next 3. They really don't even sound like the same band. They started out playing Speed Metal; once Neil Turbin left the band, they made the jump to Thrash working more punk influences into the mix as it became accepted. I loved bands that played both...Thrash tended to have what a lot if us called a "polka" type of drumbeat.

Thinking of Anthrax’s Fistful of Metal album is closer to speed metal than thrash imo. Especially Panic or Deathrider, but Metal Thrashing Mad got is name right as it’s thrash metal Edit: forgot to mention that I think you got it right all the way when separating thrash and speed. Easy way to do, could the songs have been in Judas Priest’s Painkiller album ? - Yes, it’s speed - No, it’s thrash

It's like saying there's a difference between a ghost and a spirit, or a janitor and a custodian.

I could really make a pot of coffee and sit for this conversation

Thrash metal was speed metal at the time, we weren’t separating them like we are now. I never heard anyone say anything was thrash versus speed back then.

in the 80's everything was considered Heavy metal even if it wasn't Heavy Metal

For me speed metal is Helloween's first Albums

As soon as I heard “Wake up dead” The struggle not to headbang on the bus started

Fun fact: Here in Germany in the mid '80s Thrash Metal was often misspelled as Trash. I even remember an interview with Kreator's Mille on German radio where he repeatedly said Trash Metal.

To me the point is that Thrash Metal is one of the first two evolution from Speed Metal (the other one is Power Metal). Speed Metal was born in the late 70s, when Punk Rock came out. It gave new life to the old style of Hard Rock, so Speed was and hybridization of Heavy Metal and Punk Rock. Many from late 70s to mid 80s played Speed, from Moorhead, Priest, Maiden, Exciter, Anvil, ecc. The second wave of Speed generated Thrash and Power. When Speed Metal met Hardcore and Doom Metal (Black Sabbath) it came out as the Thrash Metal. When Speed met Epic Metal and Progressive Rock, it became Power Metal.

Damn I just thought about it yesterday, I'm glad you're making a video about it!

Very good overview. For Agent Steel I would say they were pure speed metal on their early albums while they started injecting thrash aspects later on.

It's all Rock and Roll my friend. Cheers from America. 🤘🍺🤘

Exciter is using mainly a modified D-Beat - drums - with high pitched near screams. The guitar riffs ooze with Discharge influence too. Really, in the end, the terms “thrash” and “speed” were used by media outlets in selling the newer, faster metal music and were constantly bleeding over each other as it became a battle over which term would subdue the other in media usage. Thrash just seemed “harsher” of the two and it pretty much won over speed. An older guy I went to school with said it was all “Black Sabbath, just faster at times” in a nut shell. This was mid- late 80’s and grindcore was even remote;y heard of in US media. Death metal was in its infancy and Black Metal had already begun its incantations. Speed freaks will say velocity matters……Ehhhh. I guess one side would tend toward more metallic sounding and the other - although still metallic - would find more punkier/hardcore elements to infuse into it. I remember Slayer being called “speed metal” for a while and then “thrash.” And trying to make new definitions backwards compatible is even more ludicrous. We were kids then. We called things whatever we called them - whether a friend said something clever or cool or media influenced us.

I used to consider Metal Church thrash metal back in the 80s simply because they often toured with the Bay Area thrash bands like Metallica and Megadeth, but now, looking back, I wouldn't even consider them to be thrash or speed metal simply because they really didn't do that many fast tempo speed metal songs. I would place Metal Church in the same category as Judas Priest and Accept and just call them a classic heavy metal band.

Metal church were power metal especially after the first album

I've always defined speed as thrash but less. Less of everything BUT speed. Less aggression, less signature and tempo changes if any, less overall complexity.

I do agree with a lot of the distinctions you make. I think the keys to speed vs thrash are tempo speed, syncopation and the influence of punk rock. Speed metal is closer to simply a fast version of heavy metal, almost a literal heavy metal song with a 20, 30 or 40 bpm bump. Thrash has more syncopated rhythms, probably a result of its greater interaction with punk rock and hardcore. I also think thrash ends up sounding / being faster because of this. Endearingly, to me speed metal always ends up sounding like it's "trying harder" because the riffs are more constant chugging (more and longer strings of 16th notes). Also speed metal is slightly drunker. 🥴

Metallica master of puppets and Anthrax among the living are my favorite thrash metal albums. Love your videos. STAY HEAVY!!!!

Seeing EXCITER as the first one was awesome!

Thrash metal: Sabbath,early Iron Maiden,Motörhead meets GBH,Discharge,Exploited,Black Flag .. Speed metal: speed of Motörhead meets Iron Maiden, Judas Priest,Deep Purple,Rainbow, Scorpions,MSG ..

I was 15 in '86 and had Reign in Blood and Master of Puppets and several Iron Maiden and Priest records. I always loved metal, but your channel has really shown me a lot about it I didn't know. Thanks for all the work on these videos! It's great content man!!!

If your band has a vocalist but nobody knows that your band has a vocalist, it's Speed Metal.

speed and thrash metal go together, they always go hand in hand

Metal is metal. Loud, aggressive, fast, and so hopelessly hard for your parents to control. lol Just listen and enjoy. Metal forever !,,!

I've been listening to metal for over 25 years and I only felt I understood the difference between thrash and speed metal as of a few years ago. Your video did a good job of explaining it. \m/

Holy Terror never got the love they earned. Mind Wars was a spectacular album.

Another distinction (in my mind) is the bass. In thrash, it's more likely to mimic the rhythm guitar line, more likely to chug, and less likely to wander off and provide counterpoint than in speed metal. Another sub-distinction in thrash: those New York thrash bands (primarily thinking of Anthrax and Overkill) had a huge, ringing bass sound that you just don't find in thrash from anywhere else I can think of. Maybe it's just in the production of the albums, but Frank Bello and D.D. Verni stand out in a way that even Cliff Burton didn't.

Its honestly a bit confusing even for people who've been immersed in metal for years and know the sub-genres, I can only imagine the confusion for a newbie or someone who just doesn't listen to metal The 3 most prominent key differences that stand out to me are 1.) The (sometimes blatant) hardcore influence in thrash, which is lacking or non-existent in speed metal. 2.) Overall heaviness and aggression in thrash compared to speed metal - Speed metal being "cleaner", in both the vocals and guitars, not as sinister or "mean" sounding 3 .) Thrash is more dynamic structurally, breakdowns, bridges, and more components to keep things interesting. **EDIT: As other comments pointed out with thrash/speed metal being used interchangeably back in the day, just to describe "faster" heavy metal, it makes me wonder if Speed Metal is really just a prototype of Thrash Metal that barely stuck around and is nearly extinct. Like seeing what would be of thrash without the hardcore influence, and only keeping to the NWOBHM influence.

Main Riff of speed metal is no longer heavy metal, as it is based on tremolo. Fast heavy has been played since at least 1974: Sweet- Set me free, Deep Purple - Fireball, Scorpions - He s a Woman, She s A Man, Motorhead - Overkill, Judas Priest - Rapid Fire, Saxon - To Hell And Back Again. Venom - Witching hour (1981) is a top gear of speed metal. Greatest level of Speed metal Riff, inspired straight from Vivaldi`s Storm (the book "The Four Seasons"). Then comes the turning point in 1982, when over a year the speeds increase several times: from the motorhead-like Tank - Turn Your Head Around (recorded in 1981) to the typical speed Exciter - World War III (on demo), Accept - Fast As A Shark, Running Wild - Adrian SOS (on demo), Savage Grace - Scepters Of Deceit, Metallica - Metal Militia (on demo), Venom - Black Metal. So making speed metal is a collective effort, with a major contribution from Venom. But thrash based primarily on staccato riff or gallop. Thrash can also be used by speed metal riffs.

Missing forgotten Bands like Razor Sabbat Sarcophago Holy Moses Vicious Rumors

I've always thought of Megadeth as almost a 'missing link' type band of speed metal and thrash. A lot of their riffs are more melodic and less harsh, but still fast. Also Mustaine's virtuoso guitar work on songs like Holy Wars is extremely different than most thrash. As well with the constant changes progressive nature of many of their songs, labeling Megadeth as a simple thrash band is short sided. Megadeth is for sure on of those bands whose genre is 'Megadeth' Great video

Megadeth.. The State of the art Speed Metal Band...

Thrash Metal Bands usually have down picking riffs , individual note solo riffing , shredding solos , low register growling singing style . The High and Low frequencies on Guitar Amps EQs are turned up high , and Mids are scooped . The drumming usually has many fills within the drum kit , crashing symbols , and double bass .Thrash has palm mutes on guitar , and variations in tempo stops and starts in song timing signatures . Thrash Metal has unpredictable slow breakdown parts that can be anywhere in the song .The solos can start anywhere in the song . A prime example is the Metallica song No Remorse which has a solo in the beginning of the song which is highly unusual . Cemetary Gates has a solo outro which is highly unusual . these are Pure Thrash Metal bands : Metallica Megadeth Slayer Testament Exodus Overkill Savage BlitzKrieg Havok Tonic Breed Channel Zero Sweet Savage Speed Metal is when a singer sings screams or shouts at operatic falsetto or soprano levels .The Songs are fast Crunching , but are Melodic with bluesy arpeggio soloing , and bar chord riffs . Bands like Striker , Ambush , 80's Pantera , Stryper , Iron Maiden , and Judas Priest , Helloween , Savatage , Raven , Vicsious Rumours . Now sometimes bands can mix the two generes . Late 80's early 90' s Pantera , Annihilator , Anthrax , or 2000's Air Raid are prime examples of this . Pantera mixed the two on Power Metal and Cowboys From Hell albums . They mixxed Thrash and Speed Metal quite well , and probably the best really .

Power, Thrash and Speed were very connected on the begining

The way I have always divided them.. thrash sounds like Megadeth or Slayer... speed metal sounds like a sped-up version of heroic power metal. Thrash is generally a tad slower with repeating chugging rhythms made for mosh pits. Speed metal generally lacks the chugging rhythms and instead focuses on higher energy riffing for mosh pits.

Yeah I would classify speed metal as more of a gateway subgenre to non metal people new to the genre due to its more moledic nature. Thrash is more intense with a heavier punk edge to it. I love both honestly 😍

Hit the lights- speed metal The four horsemen- thrash metal

I think thrash is more versatile.

I would say Kill Em All is speed metal album....

Interesting choice of songs... that first exciter track i'd called thrash, while that first Megadeth song i'd called speed metal... But yes,,generally i think of speed as more ,ike Priest, more like faster classic heavy metal. Thrash more raw, rough, dark, brutal... more Hardcore.

You did a great job on this video!

damn.... Metal Church, Exciter, Kreator, Was waiting for Anthrax, Accept and Exodus to round it all out - we never really called anything speed metal other than Anthrax really, and that changed when the singer changed - everything was Thrash or simply Metal - it grew so fast - and there were SO many bands that were never popular but we would all try to see what they were about and there were some gems like Warrior, Fighting for the Earth and even Def Leppard On Through the Night and Hi and Dri were both metal as fuck. Jag Panzer that I think was Joey Taffolla's first album - definitely before he blew up for a little while.... man this brought me back what 30 years? Jesus - I know there are great metal bands now but the 80's really was where it blew up huge and some of those songs will be note for note in my head until I am jammin with Randy Rhodes in the clouds

In terms of all the metal sub genres, I prefer to follow Lemmy’s example and just refer to it as rock-n-roll. Besides, most bands have at least dabbled in other genres.

suggestion! Doom Metal vs Stoner Metal (rock) because there are two styles of metal that have elements in common....😎👍🏻🤟🏻

Yeah, I agree, these Metal genres are so close, so some bands are falling into both categories. P.S.: Apart from the big bands, I have to propose two of my favorite albums in those two notable Metal genres: * Xentrix - For Whose Advantage? (Thrash Metal) * Maniac - Maniac (Speed Metal)

I can say with full confidence that i do not care one way or the other, if it makes my head bang its ok with me.

#TeamThrash

Speed Metal Developed with the songs "Kill the King" "Neon Knights" "Mob Rules" and " Turn up the night" from Rainbow and Sabbath 🤘

I am partial to instrumental speed metal late into the era. Some wicked influences from my childhood would up the bar for entry into metal and go on to influence complete acts of badassery for the next couple of generations. A golden era of shredders in my guitarist biased mind

It's pretty simple: Thrash is speed metal with a punk influence.

nice video! I always felt speed metal is more motorhead inspired so i consider them the originators of the genre

And yet Thrash sounds way faster than “Speed” Metal

Thanks for the explanation.

*SPEED-METAL* = Annihilator, Anvil, Agent Steel, etc. Far much sunny and joyful than thrash, more melodic too, often uses choirs and falsetto vocals. Guitar, bass, vocals, and battery working are very "lively" and virtosism in everywhere. Outfit; sneakers, jeans, T-shirt w/ your favorite band :) It transmits positive benevolent energies. You won't never rebel against the system by listening this music! *TECHNICAL SPEED-METAL or Speed/Thrash* = born after the two genres above, it can be more aggressive than straight or plain speed-metal but benevolent mood in any case. Sometimes even more powerful and faster than thrash but not all that violent as thrash is. A sort of crossing between speed-metal and thrash without all that satanic implication that thrash - at least early thrash - had. Here's where I put stuff as 'Tallica, Megadeth, Overkill, Testament, Death Angel, Voivod, Nuclear Assault, etc. It transmits positive benevolent energies and can increase cerebral intelligence. Even if appearence can be deceiving, this keeps you as good boy as you are; remaining all that social conformist slave tamed person. *THRASH* = Satanic attitude, very negative, powerful, and violent (sometimes far much more than whichever black-metal and death-metal band), very negative mood, often very dark or tragic like a hopeless mood or sensation. Sadus, Slayer, Possessed, Dark Angel, Celtic Frost, Morbid Saint, Metal Onslaught, etc. In a few words is what you call the early "thrash/black-metal" and "thrash/death-metal"; satanic symbols as inverted crosses, spiked and studded collars and bracelet full of nails, black leather outfit, sometimes lips- and/or eyes-painting. It can sound even "ultra fast" but almost always more monotonous in terms of guitar and battery working compared to speed-metal. It sounds like oudated and together speed-metal was born before than the other genres. But that outdated is one of its own strong point; like an ancient spell it can smeel like sulphur and never dies! Sometimes, it can reach very intricate guitar riffs constructions (sometimes far much more technical than the so-called "technical speed-metal") and very long songs; for instance Hell Awaits and Crypts Of Eternity from Slayer. It can increase cerebral intelligence but also your own negative self-destructive energies and your anti-social anti-conformist attitude (and suicide tendencies too). *HARDCORE RAP* = Agnostic Front, Suicidal Tendences, SOD, Anthrax, etc. It transmits a benevolent - but also stupid sometimes - mood. It is a sort of "powerful" and "punkish" speed-metal but less technical skills (and "hasty") than speed and technical-speed metal. Songs are usually shorter in comparison to the other three genres and the sensations and mood that transmits in you are a stupid smooth feeling, a self-ironic mood. Lyrics can be anti-social as well but not all that "serious" anti-socialism that the so-called "technical speed-meta" has. Outfits; short trousers, baseball cap, and laughing for no reasons (junkie in few words). It transmits benevolent but stOOpid and stoned energies and might reduce your intelligence or turned you into a tamed individual; i.e. a slave of society and conformism. *HARDCORE PUNK or post-thrash* a-la Exhorder or Pantera is an hybrid son or mix between almost all those genres above (maybe excluding the straight plain speed-metal). It transmits sometimes benevolent other times negative energies, but more destructive energies than autodestructive. In anycase like HARDCORE PUNK it can transmit in you very stOOpid mood and even if at the beginning it can make you turned into an antisocial individual, as time passes you might realize that you became a social conformist; in a few words it might turn you into all what you wanted or thought to fight against to!

Was 8 when i first heard something other then the radio or my parents records. My stepsister showed me a taped of some band called slayer. Young as i was i still remember that day as the one i knew id never stop looking for something to make me feel like that again. Thrash and speed have evolved over the years but that feeling is still there..

Speed Metal is fast Heavy Metal. Thrash doesn’t have to be fast. The scooped guitars are a dead giveaway.

I agree with this definition. Its really annoying how black-thrash bands have appropriated the name "speed metal" these days where basically anything from Slayer to Venom is considered 'speed'. IMO it needs: shredding guitars, high tempo drums, and at least some falsetto vocals stretching upper range. Its meant to be an extreme of heavy metal.

As I approach my fiftieth year and having been a lifelong metal fan, I think Lemmy said it best when he said 'We're just a rock n roll band'. Why do we need to infinitely subdivide and classify everything into boxes. Not a dig just a genuine question from someone who knows music that speaks to me when I hear it. I guess it's a marketing thing right?

I glad that you put Metal Church in that hard to define list. Voivod perhaps belongs that list. I was listening to killing technology and it was hard to define. I noticed Exciter and Rage using Judas priest songs as their band name like Running Wild. Early speed Metal adopted this practice.

For a bit in the beginning, Thrash was called everything from Power Metal, Speed Metal, and even Death Metal at times. Nothing was set in stone.

It's a shame that 80s underground metal suffered from the poor production quality on records. You can tell that all this music blew everyone away when played live at the time but it's a shame they missed out on the production quality that was either only reserved for big labeled backed pop rock bands (eg Mötley Crüe) and only became a standard for everyone else in the 90s.

I'm 52. I wasn't there at the beginning, I started listening to metal in '83. But I was there early enough that no one knew the differences that we take for granted now. I've tried to explain this to a friend that's 23, but he doesn't get my point of view. I agree with the current definitions, but. damn, have things changed in four decades. At least we agree that what's cool is what we enjoy.

great pick of cover picture, the debut of megadeth sounds quite lot speedy. Another good example of uncategorizable band is Razor.

I agree but for some bands it is hard to differentiate. Metal Church is a good example, maybe they have both styles.

I agree with you 100%! Speed metal has more 16th notes, and the vocals actually contain singing. While thrash metal has rhythmic guitar riffs, and everything contains punk elements, from production to the vocal style.

I think it's a very tough distinction to make. Accept were "probably" the first band that played what I would call speed metal, but they also have a lot of thrash elements. Conversely there are a lot of thrash bands that are almost indistinguishable from speed bands in their musical style where only the vocal delivery can make a difference - even then there's A LOT of crossover. I think Mekong Delta who were classed as a thrash band had a lot of speed elements - indeed it's difficult to seperate some of their albums that fit completely into either genre. Anyway, excellent video as usual, looking forward to what you do next. Keep up the great work.

I know to to play Thrash and Groove Metal on guitar just plain downpicking and palm muting I do but when it comes down to Bass I play triplets with my fingers to get those fast galloping triplets.

Speed metal bass tone>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Agent Steel, Holy Terror and Metal Church in my opinion, I find Agent Steel's first two albums pure speed metal, actually if someone asked me what the definitopn of speed metal is, I'd just play Skeptic's Apocalypse and say thisi is speed metal. Metal Church has a lot of diffrent stuff, they are really hard to categorize, there's pure heavy, there's speed and there's thrash, so they play diffrent styles and they do it amazingly. And Holy Terror...well honestly, I've heard several songs, never actually listened to whole albums, so 'till now I thought they were thrash, but when I heard this short part of a song in this video it sounded like traditional heavy, so I guess they're a fusion of heavy, speed and thrash, but mostly thrash, because every song that I know by them is thrash metal. Also, I thought this is going to be another video full of bullshit, you actually made it very correctly and I'm glad someone explained it as it really is. Thanks for that, Ruthless Metal! I agree very much with you on this topic

How about for the next video idea, you can talk about heaviest/fastest/technical bands of each subgenre (thrash, death, black, etc...) Or you can talk about most underrated bands that you feel like every fan should know about! 🤘