What makes a Traditional Martial Art “Traditional”? Hint: it’s not how old the style is 

Does this make Ameridote a postmodern martial art? 🤔

Karate as a “style” wasn’t even named karate and divided into sub groups (Goju Ryu, Shito Ryu, Wado Ryu, and Shotokan ) until 1938 when Jigaro Kano was invited to observe an exhibition of the Okinawan form of martial arts and then they renamed what was effectively called in okinawan “Chinese Hand” to a more “appropriate “ Japanese word karate (empty hand) and the “ styles” being named for the three best practitioners home provinces or villages. Up to that point it was more like mma or jeet kune do in that they took what worked and left what didn’t from various other martial arts to create an effective self defense system. Once they adopted these changes and then added the Japanese uniform and ranking system of Kano’s Judo in an attempt to “modernize” it then became a “Traditional “ martial art. Which is very weird because this same thing is what happened to Boxing with the introduction of the Queensbury Rules. I think the reality of the question more has to do with the clothing and rituals involved than application to be frank.

The boxing gloves, caestus, were spiked in roman culture (same guys that had combat sports with swords, way to dangerous for sane people). In greek matches they most likely didn't use metal plates, but "only" leather stripes that left the fingers free, much like modern bandages. Olympic fighting matches in ancient greece were divided in three types of styles, boxing, wrestling and pankration. Pankration was a combination of boxing and wrestling with only very few rules, like no eye gouging (which on occasion made some people not compete because they couldn't use the techniques they learned in war). Boxing matches could go on until the sun or the opponent went down, if the sun went down, the match ended in a draw. You could win a match in wrestling even if you died, if the opponent tapped out first and there are stories about guys that won in such a fashion. Most priced were the winners that competed and won in all three styles. In this tradition MMA isn't particular new and the complain about not being allowed to blind people isn't either. The information is mostly drawn from Michael Poliakoff: Combat Sports in the Ancient World. Yale University Press, New Haven. 1987.

Muay Thai is an incredibly old martial art. It is also very traditional. It is however still subject to trends. Rules change a bit from year to year. Therefore matches look different now compared to how they looked in the early 2000s. All those different techniques are however present in the ancient (Boran) forms of Muay Thai. Even as a sport there’s a lot of traditional and superstitious practices. Like the Wai Khru and the wearing of Pra Jiad around the arms and waist. There seems to be some disinformation around this in Europe and the USA.

The interesting thing about Taekwon-Do is that, during General Choi's lifetime, it was constantly breaking up significantly with tradition; Korean was not mandatory outside of Korea (I for one learned it entirely in French and learned my first Korean word only years after I became a black belt); it became the language of referees only by the 80's (Choi wanted it to be English but Korean was the only one universally accepted, not just because it was the birthplace country of the art, but also because it was spoken by both Communist North Korea and Capitalist South Korea... although we know both have diverged significantly from one another today...) Choi deliberately distanced the art from it's source culture, moving the center of authority and decision of Taekwon-Do outside of Korea to Canada and later to Austria. (Choi later wrote that ''Taekwon-Do may still be called Korean only because of the birthplace of it's founder;'' a statement to outrage any traditionalist outright.) The uniform was redesigned in the mid sixties (black piping) then again in the seventies (centerclosed),the eighties (grey uniforms for black belts), the nineties (shoulder badges); Teaching methods changed not only with culture but with what teaching studies brought up (i.e. reinforcement teaching replaced punishing teaching); The training regimen changed with research in kinesiology, physiology and testing ( i.e. proprioceptive stretching was introduced in the early '80s); Principles of power changed (i.e. the sinewave movement replacing linear hips-bodyweight transfer); Technique execution changed (i.e. the chambering of the side kick from knee to waist); Techniques were added or emphasized differently(i.e. the twisting kick, downward kick, jumping punch and backward kicking became staples in tournaments and very basic joint locking and throwing added to it's official self-defense curriculum); Sport rules changed (i.e. patterns are now performed with 2 competitors at the same time and the better of the two designated by a show of hand, instead of one by one with points); Testing criterias were expanded from the original requirements (i.e. performance breaking added to power breaking tests); Even the patterns changed (i.e. in my lifetime, the execution of the finger thrust changed 5 times in Do-San pattern), up to an including discarding one to introduce a completely new one to better reflect all those changes Taekwon-Do had gone through (i.e.Choi himself replaced the Ko-Dang pattern with the Ju-Che pattern). The traditionalist-minded were either annoyed or outright offended by these breaks with ''what was'' and, because Choi was the headmaster, they either complied grumpily or seceeded to ''preserve the tradition.'' Now that he is dead, his art has split in numerous styles (much like what happened with Karate-Do) and the traditionalist mindset has settled in all the more firmly as everyone claims to be the ''true follower of the master,'' or the ''preserved original way since the beginning.'' So based on your definition, it could be said that, like Muay Thai, Taekwon-Do was a modern art but with a traditional base but now has turned into a full-fledged traditional art with the passing of it's central figure who had worked to make it modern.

This video was needed. I actually took hints from you Ramsey in previous vids. You again and again point out how important POSITION is in relation to one´s opponent. This is how even badly mangled and sportified boxing remains so relevant. On the other to some styles perfected FORM became paramount, position or even presence of opponent being of second importance. Thank you.

Well done. As a sport fencing instructor, we inevitably get questions regarding modern sport fencing versus classical or historical fencing. This concisely describes the issue in our sports as well. Thanks.

Love these types of videos you make. Always very interesting.

When I studied judo, I was taught that it was ‘ invented’ by Jigoro Kano. However, ‘ judo-the grappling art’ is mentioned in much older samurai texts.

You’ve covered the topic really well throughout your videos in general. That’s a great piece right there! Well you sometimes even called traditional martial arts and combat sports so it’s pretty self explanatory but that was a video definitely worth waiting for!

Good stuff, as always! 🙏🏻

Thank you this was extremely helpful!!

Very informative and well thought.

Great video, excellent information.

An excellent analysis! The best answer to this question that I have come across.

I like your comments on these topics! You are very informed, unbiased, understanding and have minimal to no misperception about the various martial arts including traditional martial arts!

Hello. Once again, à great, clever and sound analysis of the term. Thanks.

I agree to an degree, while "Traditional martial arts" keep and hold tradition, many of such traditions are just a cultural thing and done outside of martial arts and the rest is just modern additions, the belt system started in Judo before then it didn't really exist and there was no such thing as uniforms back then (except maybe for military) the gi was just clothing. As for modern combat sports it has tradition in it from fighters walking on stage to the announcement of the winner, you even can equate touching gloves to bowing. BJJ is a traditional martial art even with your definition of it. Traditional martial arts do adapt and change over time, some did it to get more students and to keep it from dieing out, (added a sport, took away some techniques and training exercises) in turn watered it down and boosted it's popularity in some ways. Lots of misconceptions and false information, it doesn't help that some people duplicate the way the art is taught to them and don't understand how it works themselves.

Answered the question in less than 2 mins! Great vid

Here is something to think about. In Japan, anything with the suffix “do” on the end is considered modern. Judo, Aikido, Kendo,ETC. Anything with Hutus on the in is the older traditional one. Jujutsu, Kenjutsu, etc. What do you think about this?

Good thing you explained this cause that clears many of the aspect of those fighting stiles. Anyway so many theories and polemics but the best conclusion is at the end: GO THERE AND TRAIN! ;)

Thanks for the information Coach

Thanks coach. I was wondering how to explain this to a friend. Very informative.. didn't know that they used to do that in old, Greek boxing.

Great video!

This answers what I have questioned for years 👍👍👍

This was a helpful video.

Great answer.

The “newness” of these arts is really just in the name, and the system. But generally like you said they try to adapt ancient techniques and practices. I teach both taekwondo and hapkido, and hapkido is the more “traditional” art, even though it’s technically younger. In the last 20 years Taekwondo has gone heavily into the sporty side with the sparring style and kicking demos. Nice video, thanks for addressing this

This is a question I've though about asking you myself for some time but never got around to. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about this.

very good definition and reasoning

You have the ultimate "radio voice"

Just seeing you makes me smile lol

To me there are martial arts, combat sports and self defense systems... they are all interconected, it just depends on what you want to focus on, what you prefer to do. There are traditional martial arts that have also a combat sport side.. there are combat sports with a long tradition and Self Defense systems use martial arts and combat sports techniques. So at the end of the day, just do what you prefer. or do them ALL.

very informative coach. I learned something today.

I recently watched your material on whether it is a moral duty to react when we witness an attack. There you quoted the words of one uncle, "Great strength is just as great a responsibility", a situation where he was shot by Parker 's refuse to act, however you made a critical understatement here, ignoring the second meaning of the quote. In one episode, Keene Marlow and his wife Maria were coming from dinner, witnessing a gang war. Keene acted recklessly, activated his powers to stop them, he did, but Maria was caught in the crossfire and was killed. Keene had become the "Destroyer" alright, the destroyer of lives. He gave his costume and ring to Ben and also his key to the doomsday device, so that he would never be tempted again to use his powers. It was at that moment they both learned, with great power, comes great responsibility, both in a situation of no acting and in a situation where we use our strength unreasonably.

This is an interesting topic for me, relating to my tai chi chuan practice. We don't have specific uniforms in class. We don't really bow in or say special words in Chinese or anything like that. My coach is called coach. Tai chi may be sort of in the middle in terms of how old it is. But it still is evolving. I practice modern Yang style. I've visited schools that do what is called classical Yang style. The body mechanics are different. The forms also differ. In fact, some of the forms we practice are incredibly young. If you look at some older tai chi books by older masters, you can compare the differences. I think tai chi chuan can be kind of looked at as an amalgamation of both being "traditional" and "modern" (if you practice it that way. There's multiple styles and some places will still teach the classical form of the art. And of course if all you do is Yang 24 in the park with a group, that's pretty traditional, even though 24 is one of the younger forms. Competitions will have their own set of ritual and uniforms. We still dress up for those. And while performing forms is one aspect of it, push hands and sparring/fighting are also present in some competitions as well. It's an interesting distinction and I haven't really considered it before. It seems like an intuitive concept on the face of it. But there's more to it.

In my taekwondo book is written "Taekwondo is a modern martial art"

Rokas did a video about the topic and he said pretty much the same thing. How reliant is the martial art on tradition is the thing that determines if the martial art is TMA or not. Which is why i tend to complain in how point karate shackles and gets shackled by traditional karate. Thanks for the muay thai example since it can be complicated to categorize since it has some tradition carried on but it´s widely considered a modern combat sport.

Hello coach! Hope you’re having a great day! This time a short question: do you think that applying certain moves from different martial arts to others with making people aware of them could potentially be a next big thing for combat sports? I know it happens already but as for teaching the beginners and applying more from other martial arts.

I was training under a teacher who teaches Sanda but with a heavy traditional Shaolin side to it, you had to do lots of forms, Tai Chi and Chi Gong along the way. I asked you the relevance of forms to combat training and you shone a light on it which opened my eyes. Now I train in Muay Thai and BJJ in a combat sports gym and it feels progressive. Thanks for your immensely thoughtful approach here, it has been very helpful 👍👊🙏

That's a good summary of the differences between TMA and modern ones. I'd add that TMA focus way less on competitive fighting which is why TMA fighters are usually not as good when it comes to actual fighting, I believe TMA were not designed for hands-to-hands fighting, but rather for self-defense. The mindset is also quite different. People don't seem to realize this, but traditional Karate goal has never been actual consensual fighting/street fight, but rather self-defense. That's more or less what you discussed with Jesse in one of your past videos. I even believe that once you understand the real application of kata, it's kind of similar to Krav-Maga (with a more hardcore contionning). The whole combative aspect of it was "made up" and "added" to it once it got imported to Japan, this combative aspect is not "traditional" which is also why karate fighting is so different from their kata techniques. Thanks for the video!

Very good explanation, Coach! Anyway, I believe the term should/could be changed to "traditionalist martial arts". "Traditional" usually gives that understanding of "something that's been happening/been done for a long time".

So this is kind of why I don't like term "traditional". It implies caring for the tradition over the effectiveness of the style, which ironically in most cases insults the wishes of the founders. The other day I was watching the second season of Baki, and some character, a kung fu practitioner says the following to a boxer: "boxing is not old enough." I laughed for five minutes.

Ramsey Dewey, I'm not sure of your opinion of Joe Rogan but I feel that you and Joe Rogan would have an awesome, informative discussion on his podcast.

I didn't even know TKD is considered traditional and I did that for round about ten years ^^'! We even learned it was started as a more military based martial art ^^

Keeping a tradition alive can (and often does) coexist with training to become actually proficient in full contact fighting, what you said about Muay Thai is true for a number of other arts like Wushu, some types of Karate and even grappling focused styles (to some extent). Wearing a certain uniform at the gym, saluting in a certain way or learning some specific forms doesn't mean that's all you're gonna train for (or, better said, a good coach will give you the option and guidance to evolve beyond this basic stuff if you want to). Training uniforms are actually quite practical, most of them being well designed to offer both a wide range of motion and reasonable protection from scratches and other such minor training mishaps. Forms are most useful in training discipline and basic kinesthetics to newbies, but also as an extended warm-up routine for higher level practitioners as well. Most competitive fighters I know are still practicing forms regularly in their training routines for this exact purpose, 10 minutes of kata or taolu will warm up your joints and muscles a lot better than just stretching or jogging. In the same way a few minutes of tai chi will help you relax after an intensive training session, preventing muscle soreness and tendinitis (Japanese arts also have a dynamic relaxation routine, but I forgot how it's called).

Rolled and taught no gi jiu-jitsu for 7 years. Sadly I hold no rank. But I love it

hi remsey, thanks for all Your videos my name is johnny cohen 21 years old i live in israel and i'm Training in (good) Krav Maga on the way to becoming a coach, my question is since my height is only 165 cm how am I supposed to maintain the status of a coach with people who are much taller and bigger than me, should I spar with them,I would be happy if you give me more tips on this matter,I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your point of view on coaching and martial arts, thanks again

Agreed 100%.

Sound good

Do u have any tips on what to expect when you first join an mma gym

I have given a thought also about it. What I think the main difference is that traditional systems doesn’t evolve their set of techniques keeping them as they were taught while the non traditional evolve their techniques and implement also techniques from other systems that can feet their fighting style in their curriculum

Hey coach... A question here. How do use more powerful blows when sparring light? If I wanna still do the motion. Jumping attacks, kicks. And even falling steps and similar things on sparring. I just don't use them or how do I go about it? I really need to go light because I'm a rather inexperienced heavyweight and my sparring partners tend to be much smaller. I don't want to injure them by accident...

What are best 5 books that you've read and why?

Hi there Ramsey

the studded leather strips were known as CESTI. there's even evidence of them being utilized in PANKRATION...

Sorry Ramsey, but I can't agree on your last point. You said Muay Thai is a modern combat sport because they change how they fight, but the fighting also changes in Taekondwo (and maybe other traditional martial arts too). Check a video of Taekwondo fighting from the 90s and from the last Olympics in Japan, and you will notice that they fight very differently now. Back then Taekwondo was more energetic, looking for knockdowns, while now it is about preserving energy and getting more points with weak, but faster kicks. Not saying the latter sounds really better, but they change their style to be more efficient at winning under the rules, exactly what you said about Muay Thai. Still, very nice video mate! EDIT: Looking forward to new winning strategies including to get knocked out in Olympic Karate!

How that QnA whit the couch work, Where I paste a question?

I think it depends on which martial art is a preferred for current times.

Haecon-do is also a very recent martial art

Not how old or big it is mate... its how you use it ;)

Boxing changes are interesting since so many of them were made for the interest of the public. From the Olympic boxing of the Ancient Greeks to honor Zeus to modern fights the idea of fist fighting for an audience is the great connector. The rules of engagement tell us less about the fighters in the ring and more about the public they are playing for. For instance, by the rules of the ancients, I'd say Zeus is impatient, respect toughness, and is quite used to violence at it's most brutal. Makes sense, since he is both a king and a warrior.

Sir, I have been reading Jack Demsy's book as recommended by you. But I have a confusion regarding the shoulder whirl straight punches from the normal stance. I was wondering if these punches required the hip rotation or not( as he ( Jack Demsey) makes no mention of it in the text and emphasises only that " the shoulder, back and legs aid in this punch"). If they do, is there a way to actually jab and step simultaneously.

I've always looked at martial arts 🥋 in this way. Classical - Pre 1900 Traditional - 1900 to 1950 Modern - Post 1950s Great video

Can you do comparison between modern and traditional martial arts regardless of controlling ego? Rokas brings this topic on his newer video and I'm not satisfied with his explanation. I want to know your view on this topic.

Even to this day I struggle to explain to people certain defensive techniques for self defence. I’m not a self defence coach but when faced against combat sports in application and street life threatening situations I can clearly put them out of their misery sometimes!

In my country we don't have this problem since we don't have a translation for "martial arts". We just say "battle sport" to everything.

One thing I like about martial arts like Taijiquan is that there is no traditional uniforms to wear in class. No special bowing or rituals. Just show up to the place (might be a park or indoors) and practice. Very straightforward.

I’ve also never taken the “ belt “ ranking system seriously, in my area. Over all.

You forgot to mention the "Do" (道) asociated to traditional martial arts, they often promote the way of virtue, respect, effort, mental strength, calm, self improvement, etcetc, things meant for life inside and outside of the dojang/dojo. Many modern combat sports don't include these things as part of their essence, sure you gotta be mentally strong and give your 120% in any combat discipline, but in most of them as long as you win nothing else matters. I can speak for Taekwondo which is what I know, and there lies the main difference between the plain olympic sport and the martial art as a whole. You see many people who probably aren't as good at the sport as others who only cultivate that part, but are way better martial artists and persons than many gifted sportsmen. Your martial artist's quality encompasses way more things than your proficency in the art itself, it includes who you are as a person

Modern Martial Arts are like liquids, Traditional Martial Arts are like solids. One can evolve, one cannot. If a system (of anything) will not follow the flow of time, it will never win out.

I'm eating sweet potatoes and chicken right now. Do you like sweet potatoes and chicken Ramsey?

Ramsey Dewey, so martial arts like Kosen Judo, that focus on ground, and in fact almost all the moves are exactly as BJJ and existed long before BJJ was born. And Is Kosen Judo considered a traditional MA?. They do bow and all kinds of other Japanese culture.

A question I have, but worded as not-really-a-question! Edited for not-clarity! (/・ω・)/(/・ω・)/(/・ω・)/ I wonder if Ramsey Dewey has any experience on what happens when the person doing a throw or takedown on another person suddenly yanks harshly(i.e. on the limb still in contact or whichever location on the spine is in contact with the person executing) in the opposite direction of the original fall. This has happened to me probably two or three times in HEMA, where the 'German' version of an O-soto Gari was being practiced(except breakfalls had never been practiced by HEMA-only students of the club prior). As I have some low level of experience with aikido, I told my thrower to just let me fall as I both knew how not to die and also weigh around 50kg(very light for a guy). As I was being taken down and moved to break the fall safely at 'dangerous speed'(it really wasn't), my thrower immediately put all his strength into dragging me upright in midair via my elbow before asking me if I was okay. I felt my shoulder joint pop out and back into place, so I was technically okay and thankful I didn't weigh a manly 60 or higher, but asked him never to do that again because it's a huge risk of a dislocated shoulder on a real person. And then he did it again. Anyway, I no longer let people too afraid to trust the straw-stuffed scarecrow that is me to throw me. To be fair, the floor was concrete(still is) and while I have never been hurt from actually landing on that floor(landed hard on my neck a couple of times and many times on my back, yay breakfalls! (/・ω・)/(/・ω・)/(/・ω・)/), I should probably stop being as proud of that fact as I approach my 30s. I guess my real question(s) is(are): Was I right to say it's a huge injury risk to people made of heavier stuff? Is it actually safe and are my shoulders just unnaturally loose for my age? Will I suddenly find out that the only thing holding my right shoulder in place is my shoulder muscle? Will it succumb to gravity and fall out properly when I am middle-aged? Why does it only ache when I talk about it or do push-ups? ( ﾟдﾟ) Did you know that I'm fluent in English, but also a dumbass who doesn't act my age? ( ﾟдﾟ)

Hi coach i got a question my leg got broken (double fracture) a months ago and it finaly heal and i can walk again but i havent recover my flexibility or the ability to run or jump is there any exercise to recover movility do you recomend using leg weights ? Cheers from mexico

Before I even watch the video, I will note that my school of karate, Matsubayashi-ryu, was formed in 1947, so I anticipate agreement here. I will add, however, that the founder, Nagamine Shoshin, distilled his teachings from others such as Kyan Chotoku and Motobu Choki, preeminent sources on the subject of Okinawan martial arts. Karate itself has a complex history of cultural interchange and development reaching back to China evidenced by its original name: Tode (Chinese hand), often shortened to Te. Personally, the difference between traditional and modern has more to do with Japanese influence. Somewhere between China and Japan lies the former Ryukyuan Kingdom; one should envision this geography akin to a spectrum of traditional versus modern.

By this definition, outside of a few basic things like a uniform, how traditional an art is would depend largely on the instructor. In many schools for example, practical application and being an effective fighter take precedence over many traditions of the art. Also, by the things laid out here, Jiu Jitsu, at least the way we often see it, definitely seems like it would be in the same category as many traditional martial arts, but everyone still sees it as modern.

Is Sumo a traditional or modern combat sport?

As long as there are competitions the athletes are trying to find an edge and the martial art evolves, traditional or not, judo, point karate and taekwondo are considered traditional yet yet the competitors of today are not doing the same things as those of 20 years ago.

the first taekwondo schools called Kwans opened in 1945 shortly after the end of ww2. not 1955 it wasn't until 1055 where the leaders of these kwans started discussing what they would name it

I mean Taekwondo is basically Tang Soo do which is heavily derived from Shotokan Karate Taekwondo was actually originally Called "Tae Soo-do" and sometimes it was called "Kong Soo Do" which is a Unification of Taekwondo. Plus Taekwondo is actually a Descendant of Taekkyeon. Which is a dance like martial art before it was combined with shotokan karate.

Oh my God, thank you. I've been saying this for ages.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Aikido codified by O-sensei post world war2? Like 70 years ago or something.

shoes and belts

Now I’m curious. Would HEMA be considered a modern or traditional martial art?

There is another difrense between traditional martial arts and combat sports martial arts. Traditional martial arts actually do evolve like how karate developed from kung fu and judo from jiu jitsu but usually when the difference between the two versions is big the name and the traditions will change. In combat sports it doesn't happen, now in mma strikers know how to wrestle and spinning and snapping kicks are becoming common which is a major difference the mma today and mma from not so long ago but here the name hasn't change although the change in the fighting system has change the same way as when different types of kung fu were fussed with Japanese grappling to create the original karate before there were distinct styles, people just trained together and saw what works but the name changed.

At least 2 of the main MMA styles are older than 'traditional' martial arts: boxing and wrestling are the oldest styles in existence and are Olympic games. Muay Thai is pretty old although Muay Boran is older. And you can use judo, karate and taekwondo in MMA but you need to mix them (hence the name MIXED martial arts).

Ramsey, how could you forget former NWA Heavyweight Champion and former WWF Superstar Dan Severn in early edition of UFC who could also grapple😜🙏

Traditional is good but evolution is necessary for effectiveness and efficiency.

unrelated to ur video theme but can you speak mandarin and do you plan on having a relationship in china?

Does that make Olympic Style tkd a modern style since it differs from tradition?

The issue I run into coming from combat sports (havin trained for couple of months can't say I in honesty really wasn't proficient with bjj or kick boxing) to a "modern traditional ma" founded in 70s wasn't the "flavor" parts like mokuto or behaving the correct way, but the fight stance that so far just feels "wrong", the one where you keep left hand high and front and the right close to your body low fingers straight. I assume it makes sense later when I learn more, but just now after couple of lessons it feels like disaster about to happen, aka getting punched to the head, again.

I have a suggestion if you're still interested in Fantastic Fictional Fights. There's a popular animation on RU-vid you should check out. While it's obviously flashy and stylized, there are some interesting real world elements included in the fight scene. Thought you'd be interested -- ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vJGvSbHmeco.html

Does BJJ count as a traditional martial art based on your definition? I’ve never done BJJ, so I’m wondering whether it’s a martial art that passes down a tradition or innovates constantly.

Ramsey, who is the greatest and most influential martial artist world ?? Inside and outside the ring !! And why ?? Make A Video

Yes I agree with this definition. Just to add with TKD even though it has one name it is in fact two things. TKD is made up of the Kukkiwon which is graded based on forms and self defense and board breakings etc. WTF Taekwondo is the Olympic sport and it's rules changes all the time to make the sport more "exciting". Therefore it is possible to be a black belt in the Kukkiwon syllabus but have no experience in WTF Taekwondo and it is possible to be a high level WTF fighter with no Kukkiwon experience.

Interesting angle. Most combative sports may or may not preserve traditions while in sports match, however in a real fight all traditions are stripped and cast aside, only skill and techniques remain. It is safe to say that MMA can be called traditional if certain rules/traditions are observed, and conversely a karate practitioner wouldn't need a gi and obi (uniform and belt) for a self defense on the street. Do we really need to have any traditions in martial arts in modern times, or do we reserve traditions for sports only?

I like your breakdown. One thing I think you missed is the difference between sport, street, and martial systems. Martial arts were developed to meet the demands of a martial, ie, battlefield, context. Boxing never was, nor will be, a "martial" art, simply because in a martial context, grappling is more useful. If you punch a helmet with a fist, you hurt yourself. "Dirty" boxing might get to the level of street self defense, however. Sports are for play. Martial arts are for war. Street self defense is for the street. They might have some overlap, but as Matt Easton would say - its all about context

I’ve always said that traditional martial arts become traditional when they say ‘yep, we’re done now. This martial art will never be better than it is right now’. Basically, they stop evolving. I think Dewey describes it better though.

To me, the terms “modern” and “traditional” are a bit arbitrary and blurs boundaries since TKD has both “traditional” and “modern” versions currently. What is more important is not so much the outward observable differences between traditional vs modern styles but that which is implied in their names, ie. one is an art and the other is a sport. An art, a true martial art, is more holistic and encompasses character and even spiritual development such as respect, humility, courtesy, integrity, self-improvement, etc., whereas sport is limited to and mainly about physical development and competitiveness, ie. all about winning. That’s why, sadly, so many great athletes of their sport deteriorate physically past their prime and stop training, get out of shape, and become coaches and commentators as they age rather than continuing to train and practice their art/(sport) as they age because a martial artist is ultimately competing against himself, not someone else. Just my perspective :)