not only is our performance lack luster. so is the anniversary tmog set. every other class look like action figures while the DH looks like a half ass legion tmog
The set is 100000% uninspired bullshit - the fuckin original DH level up zone upgrade set looks way flyer - the fuckin DALARAN DEFENDER SET (which I kinda hate too, but helm & shoulders kinda fire) is flyer than this “t2” set we got when comparing it to Monks’ set which is F L A M E S
Been a DH main since Legion when I started playing. People hated Momentum build for the longest time, but it was a side grade at best. Then, post BfA, they made Inertia, which is just Momentum lite. Next expansion, they nerf the Demon Mode builds, and buff inertia, but it was still comparable. Now, if you go something other than throw glaive inertia, you are looking at a 15% drop in DPS. I miss being a big scary demon for 5 minutes at a time if I did my rotation correctly, and that felt fun, not jumping around like an idiot or having to drop large % of my DPS if a fight requires minimal movement. Also I'm pretty sure I've developed early Carpal Tunnel because of inertia.
I 100% have carpal tunnel because of DH. Working out a bunch and doing direct arm exercises, carries, and dead hangs has alleviated my wrist pain by 90%. Inertia was a new talent point choice shared with Momentum added in Season 3 DF with the small rework we received. Though people were initially happy with the rework it was quickly realized that the spec was being held together by our tier set. Personally, I like Inertia WAY more than Momentum. What build are you playing that you are taking Throw Glaive talents? If you are playing Fel Scared then you shouldn't be playing any Throw Glaive talents.
You've summed it up perfectly. I miss being a big scary demon, too. Now I am just a glaive throwing peasant idiot. They wanted to give us choice with class and spec trees, but never gave us any real options to choose from. Why else is Darkglare Medallion not on the Havoc tree? It had a massive play rate in SL S1 despite not being the go to leggo.
@Spaznaut i actually do and both have gotten more attention. In the past monk had not. I ww and tank as an alternate and recently swapped over on prog to DH for the buff since we dont have a DH
Hi Voo, I am pleased someone finally took the time to speak plainly about this. It's clear that DH as a class does not have its own developer dedicated to it. DH is just being strung along and has been for some time. Example: The Hunt, despite nobody wanting it. Then Sinful brand. Then the absolutely godawful class tree and finally the even worse spec trees. To put things into perspective: Vengeance has at least 8 completely irellevant nodes. And on Havoc Blizzard wants to strong arm me into playing full mover, which sucks in M+ because most boss fights are absolutely lethal for this build. In the raid I am being forced into throwing around glaives like a peasant. The hero talent system doesn't help whatsoever, because it's just borrowed power without being called borrowed power. I can't believe we really fell for it again, but here we are. The problem is that they will come to the wrong conclusions and try to integrate Fel Scarred into the spec tree post this expac. Despite not many people liking it. It is the lesser of two evils, yes. But almost all players I've asked about it wanted more power back in Eyebeam, not its supplicants. With that being said, I don't just want to complain without providing possible solutions: 1st The current developer must go. We need fresh blood, someone with a clean slate, there is no way around that. 2nd A complete class tree rework, with new bottom nodes, kicking out The Hunt and Collective Anguish. 3rd A complete overhaul of the spec trees. In Havocs case there should be at least two builds that are different from each other. Let there be a mover build and a build that focusses around the old Darkglare Medallion, playing around Eyebeam, reducing its cooldown and extending Meta for more Annihilation/Death Sweeps. Playing mover should reward you with more damage, but Darkglare Medallion should still be viable for the majority of content. It should be tuned in a way that sims 6-10% lower. In Shadowlands this leggo was not even considered meta, because it simmed lower than Collective Anguish. It still had a playrate of up to 40% during certain weeks. There was a huge demand for this to be included in our spec tree and we didn't get it. This error must now be rectified. If I had an audience, I would make videos just about that. Sadly I don't. So I just share it here. Hope this helps. If you or any other reader has feedback, I am more than happy to receive. Kind regards.-
I feel like I' ve seen this video before. Most of the spec's core issues have been common knowledge for the longest time. Perhaps we have this awkward radio silence because they will hit us with the full rework out of nowhere? 😄
@@FelFireGazeTV today is 11.0.7 ptr, I’m feeling like we won’t see anything till 11.1 though Also ya lol I mean we haven’t gotten changes since a year ago, but there’s been some new problems from the hero trees
We are currently having the same problem that Death Knight had early on, when they had Tank & DPS intention within all three specs. While interesting, it was unbalancable... you couldnt have Tanking and DPS within the same spec tree, you needed to split it (see Druid lol) So here we are with DH. They should really split things into two DPS specs. One focusing on movement and maybe glaives, and the other on no movement/the demon side. - I suppose it would require a new Hero talent tree altogether, but hey, ish happens.
I've been saying this is the only way to make no mover vs mover camp happy as well. I like the movement build but now with having to line up even more things immo/sigil/fel rush it's not even fun and in fact infuriating if a mechanic breaks that process in the middle and desynchs you.
Also the fact that the cds do not align with eachother at all is a joke. You have eyebeam / essence break on a 40 sec cd you have sigil on a 30 sec cd you have immo aura on a 30 sec cd (which is decreased by haste) then you have the Hunt on a 1.5 min cd and Meta on a 2 min cd. Then you check a spec like retpally and you have wake of ashes on a 30 sec CD you have divine toll on a 1 min cd and you can choose execution sentence for a 30 sec cd or final reckoning for a 1 min cd. They should really do something about that as well.
It teaches you self control to line up all you cd's in your 40 sec burst window. Stop sending all your stuff on CD and line up your burst with the fight.
@VooDooSaurus VR breaking a root would be fantastic, even if they made it do so every XX seconds. Although one could say VR is what often lands people in a root. Also, unlike dk or paladin we really cant do much from a distance besides tickle with glaives.
I agree, I wish it read or that there was a talent point that said "Remove all Roots and Snares and vault away" I'm tired of relying on a freedom in raid on these final bosses.
It's interesting DH is the only 2 spec class.....We just need 3rd spec for demon hunter.... throw flurries of glaives imbued with fel energy to heal their allies. would be hilarious to turn all their glaive things into healing talents.
@@corvanjer I sincerely hope we never get a healer spec. I just really don’t think it would make sense at all with what DH has going on, would be like a rogue healer where they just chuck crimson vials
Yeah sometimes I don't even use the Hunt, because the packs are dying quickly and it has like a casting timer to start catapulting into the target that it gets in the way before the pack is dead. Also sometimes I have to choose between a blade dance or casting Essence Break, because the pack will be dead with just 1 more Blade dance, and if I use Essence break, the pack is dead by the time I get out of GCD and try to do Blade Dance or it's empowered version.
@@MrLeandrus what key levels are you doing? Around mid level which I’d say probably like +5-8, the class shines the best before it starts getting less fun and more miserable. If you can get your dh to that content at a consistent rate, you won’t have to worry about using cds on packs.
It's such a bummer with Havoc rn the class fantasy is sick (although why tf can we still not fly like the dracthyr...) the actual rotation of havoc is not fun or interesting, outside of meta we are a wet noodle, and all the bugs...if we don't get something soon I'm switching to a fun class there's so many better option nowadays.
Me and my friend used to both play high level, like CE raiding, 99% parses in mythic/heroic across the board, top 10 allstars. We did a heroic run yesterday with buddies. He was playing ret, myself havoc. He gapped me by 20% on single target. I at first thought i was just getting outskilled and need to stop being washed up, but then I looked at logs and yup, Ret is gapping DH by 20% on extended single target.
Ngl I want every single bug fixed before another "revamp," and I would love the revamp for 11.1. I'm not sure if anything changes playstyle wise with every bug fixed, but I'm tired of blizzard getting away with 30+ bugs on specs.
I just wish they would say something. Let us know if they realize the problems or if they think DH is in the right spot. But we haven't even gotten a "F@*k You" from them. Total radio silence for a year despite constant complaints is what has led to the feeling of being ignored and caused so many people to swap off of DH or become apathetic to the issues.
I don't like fel-scared. I don't like to have another 34th DPS window with sigil of flame. Instead they could add more damage too inertia/momentum. Also I don't like to play around those green farts. It could be an immolation aura / movement hero tree. And aldrachi for non-movers.
Hey Voodoo, I like your content but I feel this video was more or less repeating what the WoW forums post said. I'd like to hear more of your opinions about the spec overall. When I think of Havoc in its current state one term comes to mind: "Low Effort" - the spec has so few abilities to begin with, and you don't even use all of them outside of filler. Throw Glaive? You only use this when you're completely cooked on Fury and Felblade is on cooldown. Spectral Sight? This is a meme ability and they could make this so you identify "weak points" on your target to deal more damage. This topic alone could be its own video - discussing how many Havoc abilities just aren't used and how underdeveloped it makes the spec feel. There are SO many options for Havoc while still keeping Ion's strange infatuation with it remaining "simple" - instead Blizzard is hitting us with the "we've tried nothing, and we're all out of ideas." The funny thing about current Havoc is it's anything but simple because of all the movement and the 480 step opener that makes me feel like I'm looking at a map of Six Flags.
@@SativaSamurai1 hey man, I appreciate the feedback. The thing with a video like this, is that a lot of the opinions of us are pretty similar, since we’ve had a year to sit here and discuss havoc since we’ve gotten NO changes since then. A lot of these are just bad things on the tree. I felt I put a lot of my own thoughts and opinions into this, but I’m sorry you didn’t share that feeling. That being said, absolutely not in no way should spectral sight ever be used as a dps cooldown, we tried that for a beta cycle a year ago and it was not enjoyable and was very clunky. But ya havoc just isn’t really simple anymore, our rotation is on the more complex side of things
@@VooDooSaurus Thanks for responding! Makes sense. I was just throwing out an idea since Spectral Sight already exists. It's lower effort for them to make it into something meaningful rather than cook up a new ability.
@@SativaSamurai1 that’s fair, but there’s just some weird lag and button issues with spectral sight that make it iffy as a CD, but it could work if they put a lot of time into it. At that point though I’d rather they just make a new button
Ele Shaman got 2 reworks & devs fucked up both of them. DH can use some help, devs, you know let's give dracthyr a new spec... makes sense WE are not getting our moneys worth.
the issue is they added so many skills since legion that you have to push, and they don't sync and are clunky then you add on how fights are designed now like big sad. Oh well was great for legion mage tower and pvp, other classes are easier do more damage or have more flex and less annoyingly clunky. Praying for rework love DH but not to do end game stuff.
I'm not a havoc "expert" in any way but as relatively new havoc player to me the spec feels pretty good compared to some other gargabe that I've played the only thing I feel like I'm missing atm is just pure damage I think we just need serious buffs to our abilities and sure you guys know better what would actually make dh feel better but to me it feels good the way it is except damage
Mained DH since day 1 of Legion pre patch, I've very low-key felt since late BfA that the class devs regretted or just had no interest in designing for DH. I don't hate what we have now, but damn it'd be nice to have a light at the end of the tunnel. I def think a 3rd spec would solve a LOT of issues design wise, beyond just solidifying an identity for Havoc. Here's hoping for the future, thank you for the video.
Sorry to bring the pessimistic approach but I think the 3rd spec will doom us even more My prediction will be next expac we get a new spec that is an augmentation spec as bliz stated they wanted more of those. then comes the mass nerf with changes that affect both this new spec and havoc
Wanting a 3rd spec is so stupid right now. You are literally sitting here saying you’re upset havoc sucks, but you think adding an entire new spec to the game would help fix that? You’re trying to fix spec identity, I get it. But how can you even consider that when the spec doesn’t even get any attention at all? In a perfect world where dev time isn’t a limiting factor, I agree with a Glaive spec and a demonic spec. But it’s just not the reality we live in.
In my opinion since Havoc has an annoying AF mover rotation they should at least increase our damage by a lot so it feels rewarding. Here I am having to hit immo aura, VR, Eye Beam, fel rush, essence break, blade dance, cs, cs and still be underperforming. Horrible design.
Aldrachi was supposed to be the less burst and more consistent damage alternative, however aldrachi gameplay suck ass and its not viable in many high level content, leaving us with only the burst option, which even then its not the best burst in the game, not in AoE and not in ST, also while having more downtime than the better specs in these scenarios.
@@dimitrisfikas7115 I literally raid CE on havoc I have no idea what you’re talking about since EVERY spec does those things lmfao. Havocs population has been shrinking consistently patch over patch for a while now, and we haven’t gotten changes in a year. We’re in a pretty unfun place, and the majority of the people who play havoc agree with that
@@robertm6312 havoc hasn’t been anymore busted than any other spec, only time we were very very good was right after the small changes we did get in 10.2, and we were HEAVILY nerfed very quickly. It’s not like we’re mages or something
