What should Dragon Ball Supers Art Style be on return? (Part 2) 

i think both Shintani and Kibota's styles are perfectly suited to the franchise, and massive improvements over what we had for super. But the thing i don't want most is a CG tv series. the way they've presented dragonball in cgi is great but they aren't anywhere near the point they have to be for me to imagine a series with a much smaller budget than a movie being able to pull off consistently good visuals that i'd be intrested in seeing. Shintani peak tho.

Whether it be Shintani or Kubota, if any of them are involved in the next Super anime, the visuals are going to be a major improvement over the ones from the last anime. Also I don't mind the loop animation if it's done well, but I can understand how simple designs are more animation-friendly.

Also I'd argue that repetition doesn't necessarily equal bad animation. Z's animation had alot of impact and weight. There was a flow and style to flurries that was almost like a build up to punctuated choreography pieces. Being based on martial arts, its similar to shots where fighters are going at it so fast that the audience can't really make out each move anyway. Growing up I always thought that was the intention rather than simply due to budget or time restraints as even panels in the manga show those flurries. Ofc, not every instance of it was amazing but alot of them including one's in the video are more of what I would consider good animation rather than just a product of limitation. I feel Z and Dragon ball get unnecessary flack for those scenes from people.

I would love a series in the Broly movie art style. Best DB has looked in decades

My take will be the Shintani illustration from 2019. When I saw that super saiyan blue Goku, I fell in love again.

Yeah I think simple designs work really well with the Dragon Ball artstyle anyways. But I’ve only read the manga, so I could be wrong. I generally agree that more anime should simplify manga designs, especially if the manga doesn’t use close ups to show emotion very often.

That’s also the reason why Naruto had a lot of webgen talent in it, it was simple and that simplicity made it so much easier to work with My favourite part of the show was in the Pain arc where you had possibly the best storyboarding in the show alongside sone very experimental animation

I personally think that the Buu art style is the absolute peak of the whole series, and i most definitely like Kubota's Dragon Ball character drawings, so for sure with him, for me it isn't even a discussion

Without a doubt the broly movie Shintani. It looked HEAVENLY and it would be a nice change of pace for the series.

Like you said, use shintani's style for normal episodes and Takahashi or chikashi kubota's style for crucial moment episodes, at the end everybody are used to different styles in every DB episode. also is not bad to use some art style from those good looking Dragon ball episode.

I've always loved Shintani's designs. I always say simpler is better because it's an animated show so I want good and fluid animation. Maybe this is why One Piece can get so many talented animators from across the globe working on it. Plus recently One Piece had it's first episode directed by an American, Henry D Thurlow, and the episode not only directed spectacularly but was extremely well animated. Tons of lip sync and very fluid animation. It was a very odd thing to see so many western animators on one show plus Vincent made two stellar cuts in the past two episodes. I'd love to see you go over Episode 1066 as that episode is something else Dragon Ball should have a similar treatment. No more overly detailed designs. I want fluid and amazing fight choreography and character acting. Akira Toriyama's style is hard enough to do and adding in more work with heavily detailed shading doesn't help. Plus I'm still surprised to see Masaaki Iwane on Dragon Ball considering how much work he's done on Pokemon as a series. He's had so many cuts in Pokemon and he has a very particular way he animates there.

Shoutout to Hisashi Eguchi! Thank you again ForgottenRelics for an awesome video!

I’m a fan of sketchy lines. I think Shintani’s designs are the way to go since it has the flexibility to be loose and simple or very detailed and gives you the best of both worlds

While I do think shintani character shadings will make it easier to animate, his feature placement needs to be fixed. If we can get Kubota feature placements with shintani character shading that would be great

As long as the characters look decently buff i'm down

I think the Shintani art would be better for Super. Dragon ball designs have never been known to be complex in the first place so the simplifying of the character designs in super broly was never much of a loss. The looser animation style of the Shintani art also allows for more fluid and fun fight scenes which would help ease the main complaints with supers animation style.

to be honest i would love dbs to return with dbs broly's style. i genuinely like it the most out of every style db has had so far

4:05 The man Sato himself. Whenever I look back at his work for Slam Dunk, I'm reminded of how animation-deprived that show really was. Adapting Inoue's original manga art is a tough job to handle, but I wish Sato took an approach that allowed for better consistency, while also keeping its charm from the manga intact. That's not the say Slam Dunk's anime had 0 great looking cuts, but the bulky, tall, excessively detailed designs often made me put myself in the animator's shoes lol! but Slam Dunk, just like DB, has episodes like #80. Nailing the stuff you mention from 2:12 onwards, where a certain supervisor or animator straight up does away with the intricate artwork in favor of no shading. and man does it show. there's generally a lot more character acting, snappy poses and expressions, just about everything I like about the medium. This is unfortunately very inconsistent with the rest of the show and makes me wish the character designs allowed the team to suggest such sequences more often. It's really no surprise that people would rather stay away from working on it! there's many projects where i wished the animation-friendly designs played a role in attracting more talent. dragon ball is no different! well dang i should finish the video first before explaining my point ahah, you said it already at 5:49! fantastic video as always. your current style of making videos has been consistently great! thank you for opening up conversations on these topics.

I prefer Shintani's design personally, it's also make the animators easier to animate

the webseries 💀

As always love your videos please do not stop making them, your animation breakdowns are fire

We need more dragon balls

The artstyle from the special episode where we got to meet tarble was amazing... I just like the way they rendered the animation in the episode

as long as its not Yamamuro I'll be happy

i would like kubota style with takahashi art style. or db beginning of z art and animation, so they can also bring back the great choreography fights they had back then

The Broly movie was peak Dragon Ball in terms of designs. Sure, Buu Arc designs were great. For a manga. Why should I care for detailed designs if the animation is a slideshow? I'd rather read the manga then. The strength of anime is the medium of animation. The designs need to be chosen well so that nothing can bring animators down and hold back their strengths.

Love these videos man

Just use Shintani's style and make it consistent that's all I ask

Thank you a lot for a new Dragon Ball video! I am a big fan of the Boo arc art style but you make good points as to why it should be simpler.

Going back and looking at 22nd Tournament up til end of Namek, I can’t help but LOVE how Dragon Ball looked, and Shintani and Kubota brought both ends of this spectrum to the forefront in Broly and Super Hero, yes the Cell fight looked great but dude the art style was so niceeeeeee I ADORE the manga panels so much during the Saiyan Saga

Shintani all the way for me. I want dragon ball to be on the level of one piece or demon slayer in terms of animation. While I don’t mind the repetition of older dragon ball fights, in this current age of animation for that to be prevalent especially if there’s a good production cycle is just unacceptable. Plus if it gets the animators excited and draws in more talent it’s a no brainer Shintani should come back.

I love that loose shitani namek style , seeing the more curved and retro art style with modern fidelity is so cool

It'd be nice to see a full db tv series with consistently high quality animation whilst using simple sheets, but IMO dbz stands out to me visually cause of its strong posing coupled with it's amazing high detailed art style. Sort of reminds me of Ace Attorney where the animation was extremely limited due to hardware and budget so they instead went all out on the poses, which to me leaves a bigger imprint on my mind than fluid animation (just personal taste). Looped animation can actually look pretty nice if they nail down the timing and choreography (not saying its easy especially with detailed art, but just pointing out that it's not automatically bad). I would suggest having a mixed approach to let the battles be animated with simpler designs and savour the high detail art for the stills or impactful hits, but I think the problem is the art style will be fluctuating without any flow because of how Dragon Ball always breaks up combat with dialogue or other stuff every so often. Anyway that's my 2 cents, I'm alright with whatever approach they take as long as they don't botch the art style like they did with super, stuff like arched eyes has no impact on animation effort but it makes a huge difference so those should come back to the character sheets regardless of the approach they take. Ditto for the cheek shading of Z where it curves into the face rather than outwards, but that's only if they're gonna put any shading there in the first place. Great video as usual btw

The way you worked in how you love the Dead Zone era and 23rd TB era, I got chills. We both agree so much on how we feel how Dragon Ball should look going forward. I never have been a big fan of the late Cell arc and Buu arc look. Hatching is detailed but because it is so loose, it is less time than, say, 3-tone shading! Go back to the 1988-1989 era of Dragon Ball and you will see how it is mostly 2-tone shading except for important cuts or still drawings/pans. And like you mentioned, the action scenes go for more 2-tone to 1-tone shading instead. If you go through the series in full, you will see the animation takes a huge hit during the Freeza arc when the model sheets got so rigid and detailed. The fights from the Dead Zone and World's Strongest movie are gone completely and hadn't returned really until the Broly Movie. I was worried the old style was going to be forgotton but you nailed it, in my eyes! Thanks for the awesome video.

Dude, I say this every time, you are a legend when it comes to topics to discuss in the series, this is why I subscribed so long ago!!

To answer your question, good

I LOVE the style of the Super Hero opening flashback.

I wanted either Yuya Takahashi or Chikashi Kubota as character designer, but if their detailed designs would lead to stiffness and would be harder to animate, Shintani is the best choice. Though, the last time I checked, it looked like he was switching to Yamamuro's modern style, so I don't know anymore.

posting another comment just to say i love the goofy editing in this video

It's interesting though because while more detailed designs lead to more rigidity, guys like Kubota and Shintani can make it move like butter. It's more so Takahashi and Yamamuro who stuggle to make them dynamic. The situation also works in reverse though, right? With the super detailed character sheets, animators can choose whether to keep the detail or not...

It would be awesome if you compared the animations and design of Broly's moves from The Legendary Super Saiyan movie and Super Broly, like the changing colors when he transforms and other moves as well! You could throw in Kale if you want because she also used the same moves!

Either Shintani or Kubota are fine, just please not Yamamuro's designs again 💀

Yeah, I'd go with shintani. Animator friendly, but you can go detailed if you want.

I would be happy with Shintani or Kubota. Even if they went full 3D like super hero or 2D-3D hybrid like in One Piece, it CANT look worse than DBS Missed you

Opm is a top notch for example of simple designs with optional details

0:55 those are such great and dynamic drawings, sucks to know that i will never be able to draw anything remotely expressive.

The style from the Super Broly movie is the best

I draw more like Kubota, but a more looser approach is better for the animation. I fiddle around with animation and stuff here and there, and from my small amount of experience, it's really difficult to try and pack so much detail in very energetic frames. Animation > Art in most instances outside of close up shots.

i just wished the ssj would be bleach blonde when the aura is off and the clothes changed colour a lil bit

Best of both worlds is the way to go, all the while letting animators do their own thing or letting others do something unique so long as it remains cohesive while also remaining consistent. It would be good to have simpler designs for characters done in the style of Naohiro Shintani being reserved for scenes/episodes in slice of life situations or not-so-important events. Once action, drama or any other scenario changing events unfolds, the art style goes into "serious mode" and we'd switch the art style to something done by character designers like Chikashi Kubota. This has been done before in Dragon Ball Super Broly and in other anime too like One Punch Man for example. If anything, Wano arc of One Piece has been currently pulling off some of the most versatile and craziest looking scenes the series has ever seen and it would be a dream to see Toei Animation give similar treatment to Dragon Ball in a future series or animated feature of any sort as well.

When i watched dbs broly. I was actually impressed because with Shintani's art. IDK how to explain it. But when i saw the movement it felt like these guys were actually moving like person like the muscle is moving under the skin. Instead of them moving like a solid mass... Uh.. blocky movement. I have no idea if that makes any sense

I would love for more rough chaotic lineart/hatching as well, I really wanted something like that for chainsaw man as well

Honestly, I just don't want the "shiny bananas" hair back.

Don’t care who, as long as Yamamuro is out of the picture in any way. Whether is director, designer, animation director, script, etc

I think shintani should be the future of Dragon ball.

Do you still have that source for the Suezawa interview?

What they really need is creative freedom up in that studio.

excuse me, could you link Iwane's youtube channel please? i'd be deeply curious to see an animator's perspective closely.

I thought about one thing What if Dragon Ball super Superhero had Cgi of Dragon Ball FighterZ Imagine That would've been Awesome More sharper Anime style cgi

Genuinely all those choices I'm down for I mostly don't care witch cus they're all amazin. I knew where u would go tho lol & cus I understand all this too I don't disagree in the least. Shintani is def the most malleable of all the obvious options & can reform nicely to fit the animators' needs while the others R alr so detailed from jump it makes it hard to deviate too much before it becomes noticeable & jarring. I'll still say tho that cus of ur vids on the animation classes of Naruto & DBZ & ur comparison on 90's one piece vs the newer arc movies that style isn't "bad" per say(the repetition & high editin) partly cus of the impact & weight is somethin doesn't have the same effect the way it's done now & the flurries had a "flow"(?) to them I really like. I also just miss the way older DB (specifically Z) was animated & no one seems to mimic that these days to my knowledge. As I said tho I don't disagree in the least & I'm fine wit whatever direction they go if it works out cus they have so many beautiful options at their disposal now

9:10 fin.

Yesss omg thank you for finally addressing that 2:45 on instagram whenever I see a clip of dragon ball z that you described it’s always people in the comments saying this is why Z. Had better animation the super . Even tho for the portions of super that weren’t retelling it had for the most part should art and animation no different from dragon ball z since Z didn’t alway have perfect art or animation either . The amount of arguments I’ve gotten into with people in those comments is ridiculous people are so blinded by nostalgia . And I’m not even a big dragon ball super fan but I will give credit where credit is due. But I’d have to be honest I’d want the guy who did the opening for super hero to do the character art ik it’s not the most animation friendly but man to see that beautiful art with modern animation and coloring like in the movie it would be incredible and then they could simplify the character models for the fights for better animation.

Simplified arts style that mimics the nameks saga artstyle is the best in my opinion.

My opinion is pretty different, I loved the DBZ movie fusion Reborn's style that 3 tone coloring was great. But I think DB diama's trailer style is something like that which modern style of DBZ fusion reborn's I guess

I'd love to see DBS Broly's style be permanate. Theres something about the simple designs that just click with me

They should keep the style from the dbs broly movie,it looked so good.

Anything that gets rid of that modern One Piece Adobe Flash style.

Db super Broly has some of the best art work. From animation to color and to line art

They should use something similar to Toyotarō’s art

:) yh would love the hatching but at least more Kubota means more goodness!

as an animator-in-training i understand this. often times i feel let down by how stiff and under-detailed anime drawings are, but in reality, thats how character model sheets should look. what will REALLY give us what we want is for studios to give animators more freedom of expression. i did not like shintani's designs, but i liked the result. hayashi yuki had my favourite interpretation, and doesnt get enough credit i feel. thick sketchy likes, sometimes choppy timing, wild plumes of light and energy. gogeta vs broly part 4. at the same time, onishi ryo's goku vs broly fight, which stays VERY true to shintani's designs, doesnt get as much praise as the rest, while still amazing. its true, a lot of fan favourite parts of super are the ones with creative liberties on designs.

What anime is at 1:50?

It should be Super Broly style

Ok ok ok ok here me out on this one Dragon Ball, but it looks like Gurren Lagann. I'll see myself out now.

I have a video idea and its about ousama ranking/ranking of kings could you make a video about it's production I'm not trying to force you or anything i just like your content

Kubota worked on FLCL? Niceeeeeeeeeee....

Only thing I don't want is the shiny and plastic look of dbs

mix of both shintani and kubota would be perfect frf, late buu saga art style is finally returning and not that shiny lego bullshit at the start of super

Guys I want to start watching Dragon Ball which one should I start with ? Best animation and less fillers

Love your videos. I really liked your HxH 99/2011 comparisons, I'd love you to make more. Have you noticed that in the 2011, they're super lazy and they use the purple background trick to build tension all the time? It's super cheap.

I'm not sure where part 1 is. Still hate the style used in the mid 2000s Z ovas and DB Super season 1, it'll never look good! Mat black hair > greasy shaded hair Rounded features > sharper features Curvy, pointy noses > blocky, triangle noses Always been the case, always will be sadly. As long as that's how it is, we should just go back somewhat to the Toriyama style like Broly did.

Shintani's promo art seems to be the best bet imo.

I love both Shintani and Kubota, but if designs like Kubota's scare animators away, then bring Shintani and do whatever you want with the episodes. The cool thing about simple designs is that they are moldable, you can stick to the simpleness or you can give them more detail. For a movie, I prefer Kubota. For a weekly series where we can realistically expect great animation, Shintani all the way. Dragon Ball is in a great place now, where new talents have brought their A-game and gave us a glimpse of where the franchise can go in the future. It is way more than what we had in Super. Farewell Yamamuro, never again.

Just give me Fusion Reborn art style

911 2

broly movie for the anime would be gg

Who illustrates the dragon ball legends art?

As long is the art style is faithful to "Akira Toriyama" work / the animation is fluid like the Dragon Ball Super Broly movie I'm good, as blood it's very important because it's add seriousness to fight's.

It'll be more like selective episode where it would like one style then other episode another style, that's what I predict

Takahashi tho

He broly style is really nice

Dude you need to do Rurouni kenshin, they really f up the color in the new series

Uhhh, the left on the first 2 seconds of the video. That are style is simple. Clean. And pronounced.

just don't give me the same glossy/plastic-looking designs from DBsuper Anime. I really want a shift that resembles the creative shift in the manga, were choreography goes further back to martial roots and more creative/playful action pieces, still retaining the Z effect of 'big blasts and power ups', but applying a more classic emphasis on techniques, mindset and strategy. I'd really like the more simple art style, but if we don't get that, just- have a shift that is less of the 'saturized DBZ'(which is what I'd describe the DBsuper anime style. DBZ but saturation up to 300%, not literally, but "tone/feel" wise.) The style on DBSuper Super Hero depicting the past or the style of DBSuper:broly would all be more then well by me, tho realistically unless they take their time with it then it'd be a highly downgraded version of it- still, given the movies, I hope it means they already know DB can really shine in different art styles then what it had.

I just want the dang show to actually return period. There’s obviously a lot of demand for DB to continue, but all companies involved are dragging their feet as hard as they can on it. Even the manga, which used to be the only thing pushing the story forward, is now treading old content in a pretty boring way. I thought the Moro and Granola arcs were worth seeing in animation, but apparently none of the companies involved in the various media projects want to rely on another group lest they have to divvy up revenue and credit. Bad business practices at work for sure.

I just want the OG DB designs back with the Z type animation

They should have used dragon ball heroes as an experiment for different art styles to see what works best

Okay based on that thumbnail the image on the right is just light years better In short, I prefer still shots that look mind-blowing to simplified are no matter how interesting the movement is. I basically hate mob psycho art style.

Hey

Dbz has some of the best fights in all of anime . Also the animation is dbz is better don’t @ me lol.