When companions make their own good choices | Baldur's Gate 3 

The moment you have to convince him to not fight Karlach at the very beginning and the little "Wyll approves" thing pops up I knew he's the legend here.

thats why on my warlock playthru i decided to play as him even tho i dont like hes character design and as i play him ill see it a lot just for the fact he is such a goated person anyway def gon go to avernus with karlach after romancing her

Even though i didn't have him in my party for a single moment in my playthrough, helping him becoming Blade of Avernus and seeing him join Karlach in Avernus was extremely saitsfying. Seeing the journey these two "mortal enemies" went through ultimately becoming each others greatest supporter in the most dangerous circumstances was my favorite storyline among so many amazing stories.

I’m not saying this would happen or a I want it to but imagine if at some points my Wyll was killed in aavernus and just how sad angry and despaired Karlach would be at that moment, not only does she lose an ally and a friend, but the only true friend she has in Avernus.

@@chainsawboy2388 well it is Wyll. He probably got downed in the first fight after missing a 90% eldritch blast

Incorrect. You get this Astarion cutscene if he is alone to face Cazador. If you are there with him, you will need to convince him not to ascend.

But the comment says that as a friend it is easier to persuade him than his romance. but the roll dice the same. So how is it more difficult? The statement that it's easier for him because he doesn't have to protect his love is true. (if you agree to need an Overpowered Vampire as a partner)

@@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan But if he's not alone against Casador, he can't ascend bc no one to help him to see marks on his back. So Astarion does the one thing he can.

@@Nanicha2007 I'm not talking about the situation at the ritual. but from the statement that it would be easier to persuade him if you didn't romance him. but the number of dice is the same. So where is it easier?

Oooh, I didn't know that. Will choose a different path during next playthrough. I only heard you shouldn't have Astarion in your party when going to Cazador's lair if you wish to resolve that without a fight.

Something tells me that was the inspiration. She does kinda have the visage.

You aint wrong, with Will there all we need is The Doomslayer here for this to make it perfect.

Makes you wonder why she wouldn’t say that line. Does it depend on whether the player has learned that fear of Shadowheart’s?

I'm speculating this is when you have low-neutral approval with Shadowheart, where she doesn't open up about her fear of wolves no? Or if you didn't bring Shadowheart to any quest with a wolf? Similar as to when Gandrel doesn't explicitly say he's hunting Astarion when Astarion himself hasn't revealed he's a vampire spawn yet to Tav.

@@pikajulie_art I know for me, I did cut in at least once trying to convince her not to and stayed quiet after but that one cut in caused nightsong to not say the line and Shadowheart killed her because of it.

Definitely isn't this shadowheart chose to spare her in my game but I only ever found out she doesn't like wolves in act 3 during her final mission

Can you provide some more explanation on how would you get to her not saying the line? Or tell if you’ve seen a video of that somewhere. I spent hours researching this and can confidently say that Shadowheart ALWAYS spares Nightsong unless Tav intrudes

That happened in my current playthrough, but I just got Gale to zap her and it broke the domination status

@@jamesmcnamara2373 She can crit fail the save, then turn around and crit Gale. That whole battle depended on Shadowheart and the world's luckiest Fire Elemental.

@@manuelvasquez4144Oh do I know it, in my first playthrough she got downed constantly 😭 and that’s BEFORE Myrkul appeared so I was down to like 1 character and Barcus fucking Wroot saved my life with his special bomb Then in the second go around I skipped the first phase of the fight and Aylin downed Myrkul in like 2 turns

In my first playthrough I missed that there is a mindflayer. Sneaked a thief to her position. Freed her. She immediately got mind controlled and one hit my thief into Dead status. Afterwards I killed the mindflayer and continued the fight. Was a hard one surviving with one character on 3 wounds left. But was for sure one of my most impressive game moments ever.

I’m sorry that happened for you, she hit for like 60 damage and evaporated all the intellect devourers with her moon beam for me. Dame Aylin is a BEAST when she gets her turn. Later in the playthrough she got the killing blow on Lorroakan and the Mind Controlled Red Dragon too! It helps when you can control her instead of relying on “ally ai” becaue they make your allies so dumb usually.

Perfectly well put, lol! Larian were geniuses imo in how they managed to create playthroughs by players unaware that there is an entire spectrum of different outcomes that occur along the way, and the influence that pushes the needle towards evil or good is US, lol. The companions are our own dark mirror and it's easy to completely miss that reality lol

I love if you romance Minthara and ask her if she's happy to be a hero in the epilogue she's like "🥺No....🥺" But you can still just keep making her do good lmao

what can you say, drow matriarchs huh

Minthara isn't really THAT evil. She's a Drow. A Loth-sworn Drow, to be exact. Because she's a Paladin of an evil god, she is evil. Now, if she was a Paladin of Eilistraee, then it's a different story.

@@spynix0718 She is definitely pretty evil even after she renounced her faith in Lolth and stopped being mind controlled by the Absolute. Her personal philosophy is of the Lawful Evil variety, imo. That said freeing her is still an overall net positive because she decides she wants to get back home to Menzoberranzan by any means neccessary, even if she is no longer welcome. So she ends up raising an army of Drow exiles and outcasts with the intent of conquering the city. She is probably doomed to fail to be honest but hey, anything that distracts the Lolth-sworn Drow from raiding the surface can't be a bad thing.

Thank you! I was honestly scared when on my first playthrough when picking the "your choice" dialogues for Bae'zel and Shart. But then I thought, okay yeah I trust my companions. If they're going to be evil then I will respect that, as long as it's really what they want and they can commit to it. Bae'zel has been devoted to Vlaakith, Shart has been devoted to Shar, Gale has been devoted to Mystra...too devoted I reckon. I was ready to do the same thing for Astarion but Alas, he didn't have like a "is this truly what you want?" dialogue--which was a gripe of mine for some time. (short rant) I often wondered why Astarion's dialogue choices were so limited between "to ascend or not" when the literal thorn on his side is a mortal vampire wannabe compared to Lae'zel and Shadowheart are literally defying their own GODS. Lae'zel and Shadowheart had autonomy--heck even Gale with Mystra! Wyll and Karlach are both being played by the Archdevil Zariel...but Astarion's Cazador is just...that. If Vellioth, Cazador's former master, were to be reincarnated from Cazador's corpse after Astarion ended him, I swear that would've been MORE EPIC than the defiance we have in game. Astarion could've had more autonomy after reading Vellioth's lessons and Cazador's journal as a prerequisite. Anywho, yes. HAHA. I really love this game. 😂

ah, vice versa for me 🙃 I have always been a good girl and my companions made "good" choices. and now (my 5th run) I'm playing as Durge and we are reeeally bad 😈😀

@@pikajulie_art on one hand, I completely agree that Astarion has less autonomy in his choices here. But also… that’s kind of the point of his character, isn’t it? Astarion doesn’t have autonomy because he doesn’t know how to have it. He’s been beaten down and abused for centuries, any shred of free will taken from him. Astarion isn’t *actually* fighting Cazador. I mean, he is, but the real struggle isn’t that. The real struggle there is very much internal, against the way of thinking and acting he internalised through years of helplessness. Cazador was more than a god to him for two centuries: he was his puppet master. His slaver. Astarion never had autonomy as a character, so it’s kind of beautiful, in a heart breaking kind of way, that he doesn’t get that autonomy in the game mechanics either.

@@cas2762​⁠​⁠​⁠ Truly, in a sense it is beautiful! It also makes sense that he wouldn't know what to do afterwards without the player intervention. Long comment below but no worries! These were just my thoughts about the game mechanics. I think my apprehensions with his quest is the execution of Cazador and the Szarr palace for the player. Astarion keeps on saying that yes, he fears this man that's why we have to stop him, so that feeling of fear and uncertainty also creeps through the player. Which is good so that we are familiar with the stakes. But when we got to Act 3...I dunno, I had a feeling of, "wait, this is Cazador?" We got Ketheric Thorm, Raphael, and even the three Goblin leaders who (for first time players) are like, "oh my gods we have to defeat THAT?" But for Cazador, the fanatics in the Szarr palace already shifts the tone of his quest into somewhat less threatening, compared to the dopplegangers and bhaalists we encounter and are scattered for Jaheira and Orin's quest. I was expecting more mind-controlled guards in the Szarr palace to really feel the threat. I felt that Cazador's threatening presence got overshadowed by the Sharrans, the House of Hope, the Steelwatchers, and the Bhaalists. On the other hand, I do wish Astarion's decision could've went two ways: (a) Astarion actually decides to stop the ritual if the player has been telling him to drop the thought, or (b) Astarion infiltrates Tav's mind to see his scars, if the player wasn't able to convince him to not ascend; the player would have to pass a dice roll check instead. Astarion's Origin playthrough reveals that he can actually just infiltrate a companions' mind through the tadpole to see his scars. If Tav is not present but the other companions are for Companion Astarion's pre-ritual, we instead get either (a) Dark Justiciar Shadowheart and Minthara encouraging him to do the ritual, or (b) Wyll, Karlach, Gale, Selune Shadowheart, and Lae'zel discouraging him to do the ritual. If (b) happens, Astarion permanently leaves the party, which I find kind of inconsistent? Especially if everyone's already maxed approvals with one another--like even without Tav, the good alignment companions should have sufficed over Tav's input. [Edit] Video reference: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-lEolzSCjyGE.htmlsi=L_MG72h0m-MReH9o , Timestamp: 39:37 The game was able to do this similar mechanic for Gale's ending where you need a persuasion check to sacrifice himself if the player kept telling Gale to stay (seen in video), and the other scenario is Gale is persistent to sacrifice himself because the player kept encouraging the thought. A similar thing happens for Lae'zel's quest where the player then has to convince her to return to Vlaakith if the player already helped Voss. It required a difficult dice roll check, and by the endgame, if you already have the hammer, you get a disadvantage dice roll to convince why you sided with the emperor. Overall, yes, Astarion not knowing what to do with Cazador afterwards makes sense. Though at the same time, there were a lot of avenues where the player can tell him ascension isn't the answer: (1) After knowing his scars through Raphael, (2) Before visiting Baldur's Gate during Act 3 intro (3) Meeting with Petras and Dalyria (4) Getting a visit from Leon and Aurelia (5) Visiting the Gur camp (6) Seeing Sebastian and the consorts (7) Talking to the Gur children (8) Reading Cazador's Journal (9) Passing the dice rolls for Vellioth's Lessons From a game programming standpoint, the aforementioned could've been an accumulating point system for Astarion to acquire that autonomy to abandon the ritual. Seeing it happen through Shadowheart, Lae'zel, and Gale was rewarding. So yes, eitherway, all the more to appreciate Astarion's writing because we players get so invested with this pixelated elf, that we want him to have his well-deserved happiness and freedom in the end. 💖

I’m doing a dark urge run now and decided to let her decide what to do. It’s cool to see that if the player doesn’t influence her at all, she chooses good. At least in my run.

It's a bit awkward, because the dialogue seems to align with Tav and not Wyll.

I always charge alongside them. Wish we got a dlc or something that’ll allow us to kick Zariel’s ass and get Karlach her original heart, or a reunion dlc where we charge in with level 12 characters going up to level 20 to fight alongside a kickass Wyll and Badass Karlach as they breach the domain of the ruler of hells

I'm okay with them running into sunset in Avernus together. They're my favorite ship in this game and makes me sad companion to companion romance is not implemented. They're perfect for each other. And they really don't need you there, the 6 month reunion shows that they're doing just fine the two of em.

@@kutlumzrak2689 I agree with being sad about missing companion/companion romance but I‘m also glad it isn‘t in the game. Because now I have a great reason to play all the origins to see all romance plots by doing them in ships (Karlach and Wyll, Lae‘zel and Shart, Gale and Astarion) because god knows I‘m not strong enough to ever romance someone else besides Astarion with either Durge or Tav lmaoo

Well, about that.....

That should be part of the game. Sorry, but the story here doesn't seem complete. There is that Avernus situation, there is that Bhaal is still alive, and there is a few issues here and there that need to be resolved or don't feel that they have been to their proper ends.

@@therrydiculeHow do you propose they would kill Bhaal? He is quite literally a god. As for Avernus, imo not every story needs to have a perfect beginning and end. I personally like being able to leave these things up to interpretation. Also, logistically speaking that would take lots and lots of resources just to provide closure for two characters. Should we also have a DLC where we all follow Lae'zel in her fight against Vlaakith's tyranny?

@@eliotgierat9462 Here is why I am saying this: what did the dead three lose in all the scenarios of BG3? Nothing and that annoys me. These 3 should pay. In DND 5, Bhaal is now a quasi-deity and not a full deity. Effectively, he is a mortal. Not an easy task, but it can be done. And Bane and Myrkul? Also, quasi-deities. Let alone that full-blown deity can be killed as well in DND. Albeit, usually, these are more in some sadistic ends of campaigns. However, that needs a lot of changes to the mechanics of the game. For starters, that would ask for full implementation of the DND levels. So that we can get to level 20. We can't kill Bhaal at level 12... It would also ask to have access to the outer planes of the divine realms since this is where Bhaal is often said to live: in Khalas... So maybe there is a detour to kill a certain undead Queen of the Githiyanki and a few other things in other realms. It would also ask for some sort of infiltration and contact with someone else because... Usually, a god can kick out someone they don't want in their realms, but they often delegate that to someone else. This is a bit like Hope's power but on steroids. The problem is that after killing Bhaal, it is his dealing with his essence. He will eventually resurrect. But we can maybe do the trick of a certain Zombie necromancer in act 3 and put it in a jar?

I haven't played a Paladin yet but have made (mostly) good decisions in each playthrough. I love the scene in the Shadowfell with Shadowheart and Nightsong where she casts aside the Spear of Night in defiance of Shar and frees Nightsong

You can do a self-serving one actually. You can get Minthara if you totally ignore the whole Druids vs Goblins affair. If you wish to see other options, you can just play a MC who really can't be bothered with the woes of absolute strangers and have Things to do and People to get to. In one of my campaigns, I played an urchin assassin whose Guild is everything to him, but said Guild is currently in a lot of trouble and he needs to get back as soon as possible to ensure that they weren't all dead. Everything else was but a distraction for him, and he just went a beeline. PS: Could just download a max exp mod, that's what I recommend for later campaigns, if you want to not be under levelled for encounters but still want to RP your own characters.

@@Fercousion i've always wondered if you play this kind of route, where do you get XP from? I get so much of mine from helping out the npc's, if you just are self serving and basically ignore most quests, how are you progressing?

I got full-body chills when she freed the Nightsong and the music started. So, so good.

If you let Astarion decide his future, he will ascend. So, not all of them make good choices

You can both save his dad and get him out of pact.

you can break the pact and save his father, that is the beauty of this game

@@holneer i know we can, but the character don’t. It’s a meta knowledge only us the player know at the time.

I didn’t knew that, but I just rationalised that his fathers life doesn’t depend on pact, it depends on what Gortash decides to do with him, despite what Mizora says. So I just thought that Mizora is dramatising to get Wyll into the pact, and Gortash gains nothing from killing Ravengard, if he does such a thing he will lose precious hostage and get Wyll (and so - our team) on his bad side. The only ace Mizora had in her pocket is information about location of Ravenguard, and she doesn’t has any proof of his certain demise of we are not to make the deal, she basically says “he will perish, trust me bro”. So I just thought that we can find him by ourselves, need just left no stone unturned in this city, speak to Gortash. Not everything that NPCs in game say is truth, you can depend on your rationality to unwire their motives. And with the great character development in this game you can see that characters are consistent in their motivation and means, so we can safely assume that Mizora always bluff and jive, and Gortash doesn’t kill everybody just because he can

@@user-ym7ev3xc5y i mean sure, but still, it would be better to let Wyll choose for himself, to see if he see right through them or not, to let him have a proper character development, not us forcing another consequence on him.

it also happens if there's nobody there, because there's nobody who could show him the sigils on his back

As of patch 4, the ending of the game is bugged for a gith player. 😂 When I joined Bae'zel's cause to rebel against the Lich Queen...I didn't get on a Dragon LOL. I was still in the docks, and then apparently Karlach's ending appeared and my character is nowhere to be seen afterwards. Also, I admit Shart is the epitome of mood swings. I love her as a companion, but I often question her reactions most of the time. 😂 Knowing she is against Avatar Gale making the shadow lamp is funny lmao. I guess the game just wanted Tav to have a right angel, left devil moment. 🤣

​@@pikajulie_art Not the lamp, both she and Astarion are fine with the lamp. But with Avatar-Gale you can choose to purify one of the Thorm family members or absorb the shadow weave within them - granting you either a temporary buff or a permanent additional lvl3 spell slot. She absolutely hates you absorbing the shadow weave and her reasoning seems to be that she hates how nature suffers under the shadow curse. Astarion is the only one who thinks that particular power grab is a good idea - but he does complement you very sweetly in both cases. 😅

Could it be that, by the time you get to that moment, Shart is less Shar-aligned due to your playthrough?

@@liamwhite3522I had thought about it but no, it's pretty early on when she is still in full "Dark Justiciar is my dream job" mode.

@@anska7475 without having seen that interaction i could also imagine it being somewhat related to her being shar's cleric and disapproving of someone not sharran using her power

In her own way Minthara can be "nice". While she will never be as friendly as Gale (man went from neutral to liked before Act 2) she does have some moments where she does show some compassion. There's a dialogue between the two where Gale asks her about some empty bottles if she's in a relationship with Tav. Her reply isn't traditionally sweet, but by comparison to other Drow or just her family, it's understandable that on the off chance she visits home with Tav, it helps if they have a tolerance to poison.

@@twofacedmgrim Do companions often comment on the player's romance? I know the lines exist but I have never heard them.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aF0hkB1A1NU.htmlsi=zvYTOVKavz3m6Vke@@anska7475

Really? I got minthara the none evil way (I still have Wyll and Karlach) and I was really hoping I could redeem her.

Minthara is there. There is now a way to get her without killing the Tieflings. And apparently she does approve of some heroic things such as helping Wulbren.

Devils.

@@The-Great-Penguin Both

Same. It was awesome. No regrets

@@KitsuneFyora +1

The moment the music starts gets me every time. So good 😭

@@arthurianmaiden aye but the point being that its done AFTER realising what he actually wants is safety and security, not to be a powerful vampire.

You can get Astarion's golden ending without leaving him alone?? (Yes you still have to convince him but he's more willing to listen) I just want to see him kill Cazador, free the others and be there to comfort him. He suffered so much and killing Cazador was hard!! Seeing him break down sobbing made me want to hug him and offer him a cloak or something, just so he wouldn't be alone and miserable AND half naked... And after that we can steal anything not nailed down let Astarion do as he wished with it (give the spoils to the Spawn, keep it, destroy it, or sell it to use the money himself. My Tav is typically pretty good aligned but she'd be the first to tell Astarion to take everything)

What I tried in my playthrough is Astarion visiting the Gur Camp solo; unfortunately, patch 4 bugged the interaction when you save Gandrel (which I did in my playthrough). The conversation gets cut off where I didn't see Astarion choosing to save the Gur children. This should be the outcome: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Jc52srxveS0.htmlsi=f0Cohmlo2QiTOnNQ On one hand, the earliest interaction where he decides on his own was when he just outright sinks a knife onto Gandrel (pre-vampire reveal). I reviewed my past footages and I realized most of the early choices were Tav choosing for Astarion. D: [Spoilers below] . . . . Lae'zel gets to choose her own path when Vlaakith visits the camp in Act 3. Shadowheart also chooses on her own what to do in the House of Grief upon meeting her parents. Gale decides the fate of his life on his own. I do wished Astarion made his choice on his own when he faced Cazador; some pointed out that Origin Astarion can actually use the tadpole on his own to remember the scars, so I'm not sure why his autonomy isn't applicable when he is Tav's companion. :c Edit: I have romanced Astarion for three playthroughs, made compilations, and reviewed my game footages. XD The only scene I remember where he exerts autonomy with Tav is if you let Astarion respond to Ulma either after ending or freeing the spawns. Romance-wise, he is pretty persistent with Tav not becoming an Illithid, but it's not part-part of his personal quest though like Bae'zel's and Shart's.

you just tell him what he already knows: that he would lose himself and that he can be better. it involves an insight check and seeing the prisoners before the fight obviously, but otherwise just let him choose.

Yeah, but it required a dice roll though. :< It's still a Pass or Fail thing game-wise. Lae'zel, Shadowheart, Karlach, Wyll, and Gale didn't need a dice roll to choose on their own.

I'm doing some tests of this on my current playthrough. I'll report back if I turn up any conclusive results. or, I suppose, at least interesting. because Astarion has always made the "good" choice on his own for me, and I'm trying to understand why so many believe he *won't*.

@@pikajulie_art hm? I've always been forced to tell Wyll what to do. I presumed it was a sign that he wasn't confident in his own decision-making because of his error with Karlach.

there will be no bg4 you know..

its a shame that choice depends solely on if you get a very specific reaction/dialogue in the lower city that appears to be glitched. Shadowheart will only choose to save the aprents if you get that short conversation about the smells of the city, which seems to trigger randomly or not at all for most people, even if you give SH the noblestalk, find her graffiti, put a night orchid on the grave she interacts with at the graveyard etc.

There is also the part where I say nothing to Lae'zel when Vlaakith visits the camp, and yes also this part where I tell Shadowheart what to do with her parents. I have them recorded but it would make my video around 40 minutes long; I also had this video uploaded after 3 hours before realizing I forgot these scenes so I just gave up. 😂

@@mari-anne Oh, I thought it depended on what you did with Viconia! Interesting.

@@anska7475 you'd think so but no. people have tested and the small number of people who got her to choose to save the parents had the smells of the city convo. after that, killing or sparing viconia had no affect on sh's choice

@@pikajulie_art can you still post the shadowheart video if you got her to choose to save her parents on her own please? I don't think anyone has actually posted that specific video on youtube yet.

In my game, I think because I brought him to the Act2 fight and convinced him not to blow up then Tav needed to convince him for that ending.

I got done his quest and encouraged and eventually got his good ending and he didn't volunteer to blow up probably because every other time he talked about it in the game I told him no.

Yeah!! I was so surprised seeing that bc in my playthrough I was constantly saying "no we are NOT blowing you up, we are ALL getting through this, yes give the crown to mystra so she'll take the orb out but DON'T BLOW YOURSELF UP for some bs 'forgiveness'" and he still offered in the end. Which was a heartbreaking bittersweet scene of him basically saying "I don't want to die but I want you to die even less, this can end it all without risking more lives," I really enjoyed it, but it's still super refreshing seeing him actually angry at the protag for suggesting he sacrifice himself. Even if it'd be a noble sacrifice. I'm curious, is this about approval, or if you brought him to the act 2 fight (bc I did), or if you encouraged him to take power from the crown versus give it to Mystra, or...?

@@Marispider based on how his quest works i think it's gotta be from encouraging his godhood

I mean...the pairing just makes perfect sense if you think about it. The hunter and the hunted whose opposite personalities compliment each other, whose classes do the same, and who both have the same common enemy (Zariel at the end of the day) who caused both of their lives to be awful.

The two romances I really wish the game would put in if they're never really pursued by you, are definitely Karlach/Wyll and Lae'zel/Shadowheart ngl ❤ I just see them as pretty natural outcomes, with the player's influence only being here and there And yeah... the trope of being forced into rivalry only to overcome their differences over the course of the story sounds cute as hell to me lol

It's the sword you loot from one of the gith commanders who fights you after a visit in the Astral Prism! I only acquired Voss's sword in Act 3 after completing the House of Hope quest. Though, I think you can get Voss' sword as early as Act 1 which involves a lot of savescumming! Also fun fact: If you end Voss during this Intermediary Act 1 interaction, you get a "Very Rare" sword instead, compared to the "Legendary" one you get if you help him in Act 3.

I've romanced Shadowheart every single time and depending on how well you get to know her, you can really see the doubts swimming in her conscience regarding her character and her tenets of Shar worship. For such a twisted evil figure that Shar is, I wouldn't expect a follower to be a huge dork with an even bigger love for animals and lovely flowers.

Oh, I was referring to his refusal to be sacrificed since he learned to value his life as the good choice. He doesn't pursue the crown in my playthrough nevertheless, it's just the default dialogue for it! 😅 My ending still shows Gale having enough of pursuing power; I could've added the clip as well, but then again it would make the video too long so I plan to upload it separately like Shadowheart's.

@@pikajulie_art Did you bring him to the final fight in act 2, where you have to convince him not to blow up the Heart of the Absolute...? I think I always encouraged him to live and to not use the orb and I still got him offering to sacrifice himself at the end. I'm just curious what causes the difference in reaction ("I want to live and I believe we can do this" vs "I'm not sure we can do this, I want to live but I want everyone else to live more")

@@Marispider I think regardless of your choices in Act 2, Gale will always opt to sacrifice himself (assuming you brought him there). But the difference occurs in Act 3, where I was able to capture how your final choices can also affect Gale's ending dialogues atop the Netherbrain: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NxPpzl66G-Y.htmlsi=ozD71KSAboCpQzdP

He only does this if one of the spawn die in the battle, making it impossible to ascended. I think it can also happen if he never finds out about the ritual and all that info is sprung on him AT Cazador's

@dramasbomin for me, when i found out about what the ritual can do. Astarion immediately became interested in it wanted to go through with it. But upon accidentally killing one of the spawns during battle. He got mad and left my party after killing cazador. I guess if you don't find about the purpose of the ritual, he will most likely stop it.

​@@dramasbominall the spawn survived the battle for me, but i succeeded an insight check and saw he didnt really want to ascend, he was just afraid. But then he grabbed Cazador, flung him to the floor, stabbed the nine hells out of him and made me cry with the incredible talent of Neil Newbon.

Well good news because they did a major epilogue update patch though you're probably already playing it.

@@WaterZer0 yes, I’m trying to speed run for all the characters 😩

@@Emma-zm1qn You complain about needing more content yet speedrun through it? It seems like you're having an issue you caused yourself

Well said. Astarion was a slave, a puppet, a mere tool for a despicable monster, and though he himself is by no means a "good" person, his time spent as a vampire spawn could not have been more of a torturous hell for him. All those years spent being used, abused, and traumatized, and to see it come full-circle with him ending his master's life by his own hand is as tragic as it is satisfying, but to hear his cries afterward is nothing short of heartbreaking. He suffered so much, far more than anyone should, and he finally wrested his freedom from his abusive master, though the scars of his torment will never truly fade.

In his origin playthrough, he can just invade one of their minds if they don’t want to help. Assuming the rules are the same, he’s choosing not to use the tadpole, whether because the ritual isn’t what he really wants or because violating your autonomy isn’t worth it, or a bit of both.

If you insight check Astarion when he asks for your help you can see that he is afraid and also blood drunk. (Might just be an option for romance) He isn’t thinking straight. If he had time to calm down and think about it I think he’d choose the good option by default. It’s too bad there isn’t a way to calm him down, then let him decide rather that actively persuade him not to. He later says he is relieved you talked him out of it. When people say ascension is the good choice for Astarion I can’t understand that. Even Astarion at the beginning of the game would be horrified to see himself acting almost the same as Cazador.

@@theredeft5319 he doesn’t need to be romanced to get that insight check and dialogue with him (although I assume the dialogue is a little different if you’re a couple). Idk how high your approval needs to be but I don’t think it’s crazy high. He spent most of that playthrough in camp bc we were both rogues so his approval was probably medium at best when we fought Cazador.

@arthurianmaiden yes, I understand. I was just pointing out that even with other options on the table, he can and sometimes does choose not to ascend.

Nope. Because Wyll is voiced when he intervene. The Tav was a Gith.

And then you start a new game and think: Where are me wonderful pixel-friends and who are these gremlins?

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This has been my take for Astarion's route, after quite some time of thinking about it: Astarion actually makes the good choice. An Astarion Origin run would reveal that he can use the tadpole's powers to remember the scars etched on his back, with or without companions. But with a Tav/DUrge run, he just chooses not to; instead he asks the player for some validation that Ascension is or isn't the answer to his woe. This means Astarion is not choosing to use the tadpole, and he has been true to his word since the interim Emperor reveal before Act 3. My gripe with Astarion's companion quest ending is that the execution could have gone another way: If Tav/DUrge kept telling him during key moments in the game that Ascension is not the answer, then Astarion would immediately do it; this game mechanic was present for Lae'zel, Shadowheart, and Gale's companion quests (as seen in the video). Otherwise, if you weren't able to persuade him during key moments, then Astarion would last resort use the tadpole to infiltrate the player's brain to find his scars, which you then have to pass a dice roll check to counterattack. Making this compilation video made me observe that, it is only Astarion who is required to have a needed dice roll check to convince him not to Ascend--and I find that kind of weird since being able to just trust your companion and also seeing some dice roll dialogues were executed concretely through Shadowheart's Nightsong moment in Act 2. Gale's ending had some fork outcomes there as well, wherein there's a different set of dialogues atop the Netherbrain if you told The Emperor/Orpheus that Gale needs to sacrifice himself, or if you told Gale to stand down from the sacrifice.

The blood has to be given willingly :/

@@epicOway i am sure if astarion said give me blood and you will live he would qnd then kill him easy

@@arthurianmaiden maybe it’s different because I was romancing him. He knows I’m all about the easy life.

@@Nehelenia3000The same thing happened to me but i wasn’t romancing him. I did have high approval though

Astarion always wants to ascend no matter what, the situation presented in the video is him simply not having the option. Gale starts out being tempted by the crown and you have to talk him out of it (might also depend on what is your advice when he goes to talk with the statue of Mystra, not sure) so you're doing fine!