Where do the Elves sail to? Why do they leave Middle-earth? - Aman, the Undying Lands - LotR Lore 

ThePhilosophersGames man you sure do a great job on these videos. Thanks for the great content.

Would you hate me if. IF!! I WANTED AN AUSTRALIAN FOR A PET....asking for a friend. AUSSIE WOULD BE TREATED WELL.. ROOS NEED NOT APPLY YOU FREAKS!!!!

Let's not be sexist... We can call it Awoman.... /sarcasm off

This video was fantastic! Subbed. Thanks bud.

@@mirzaghalib8659 happy you liked it and thank you for the subscribing. Also Welcome ^^

haha thank you ^^

Wholeheartedly agree.

That's a pretty high rating

True, try also The Red Book, Tolkien Lore, Tolkien Untangled.

then my video comes at the right time ^^ Arwen as half-elven chose the Gift of Men, so when she dies, she shares the Fate of Aragorn (and that of all Men). Elrond is sad, because she does not remain in the Halls of Mandos and leaves Eä forever, so he will probably never see her again (as long as Arda exists). if she would have chosen to be Elf and die, she would be summoned to the Halls of Mandos. Ofc if she would have chosen to be Elf and never died, then she would be trapped in Middle-earth and fading would be a concern.

@@ThePhilosophersGames It's not forever though. Last battle, when Arda is broken and remade, both elves and men, as well as the dwarves to aid Aulë, will join with the Ainur in the remaking of the world, with song that takes shape in the moment of it's utterance. What happens to men in between is not known other than to Eru. I suspect men leave to return in the Timeless Halls awaiting the remaking of the world. And the dwarves are literally sent to Mandos in halls that are different than that of the elves. And even this fantastic end is likely not all of the story of the remaking of the world as it's stated that Ainur haven't seen with vision the ending of the world, and do not know what all Eru has in store: AINULINDALË " Never since have the Ainur made any music like to this music, though it has been said that a greater still shall be made before Ilúvatar by the choirs of the Ainur and the Children of Ilúvatar after the end of days. Then the themes of Ilúvatar shall be played aright, and take Being in the moment of their utterance, for all shall then understand fully his intent in their part, and each shall know the comprehension of each, and Ilúvatar shall give to their thoughts the secret fire, being well pleased" "Yet some things there are that they cannot see, neither alone nor taking counsel together; for to none but himself has Ilúvatar revealed all that he has in store, and in every age there come forth things that are new and have no foretelling, for they do not proceed from the past." "And some have said that the vision ceased ere the fulfilment of the Dominion of Men and the fading of the Firstborn; wherefore, though the Music is over all, the Valar have not seen as with sight the Later Ages or the ending of the World." Chapter 1 Of the Beginning of Days "It is one with this gift of freedom that the children of Men dwell only a short space in the world alive, and are not bound to it, and depart soon whither the Elves know not. Whereas the Elves remain until the end of days, and their love of the Earth and all the world is more single and more poignant therefore, and as the years lengthen ever more sorrowful. For the Elves die not till the world dies, unless they are slain or waste in grief (and to both these seeming deaths they are subject); neither does age subdue their strength, unless one grow weary of ten thousand centuries; and dying they are gathered to the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in time return. But the sons of Men die indeed, and leave the world; wherefore they are called the Guests, or the Strangers. Death is their fate, the gift of Ilúvatar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy. But Melkor has cast his shadow upon it, and confounded it with darkness, and brought forth evil out of good, and fear out of hope. Yet of old the Valar declared to the Elves in Valinor that Men shall join in the Second Music of the Ainur; whereas Ilúvatar has not revealed what he purposes for the Elves after the World's end, and Melkor has not discovered it." Chapter 2 Of Aulë and Yavanna "Aforetime it was held among the Elves in Middle-earth that dying the Dwarves returned to the earth and the stone of which they were made; yet that is not their own belief. For they say that Aulë the Maker, whom they call Mahal, cares for them, and gathers them to Mandos in halls set apart; and that he declared to their Fathers of old that Ilúvatar will hallow them and give them a place among the Children in the End. Then their part shall be to serve Aulë and to aid him in the remaking of Arda after the Last Battle." Sketch of the Mythology "When the world is much older, and the Ainur weary, Morgoth will come back through the Door, and the last battle of all will be fought. Fionwë will fight Morgoth on the plain of Valinor, and the spirit of Túrin shall be beside him; it shall be Túrin who with his black sword will slay Morgoth, and thus the children of Húrin shall be avenged. In those days the Silmarils shall be recovered from sea and earth and air, and Maidros shall break them and Belaurin with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and the great light shall come forth again, and the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled so that it goes out over the world, and Ainur and Elves and Men shall grow young again, and all their dead awake."

@@jmitterii2 This is in my opinion a very difficult topic. Tolkien made a lot of changes to the Last Battle/End of the world to the point, that it's impossible to determine what we should make out of it. His last stance was probably this (Peoples of Middle-earth): In this last reappearance of the mysterious and fluctuating idea the prophecy is put into the mouth of Andreth, the Wise-woman of the House of Beor: Turin will 'return from the Dead' before his final departure, and his last deed within the Circles of the World will be the slaying of the Great Dragon, Ancalagon the Black. and we also have this site note about Túrin from this section (Peoples of Middle-earth):: Turin in the Last Battle is said to be 'coming from the halls of Mandos', and in the final sentence concerning the prophecy 'no Man it names, save Turin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar.' In the cursory corrections that my father made much later to this conclusion he changed 'Turin ... coming from the halls of Mandos' to 'Turin ... returning from the Doom of Men at the ending of the world*, and against the concluding passage (including the reference to Turin as 'a son of the Valar') he placed a large X. So it seems he was not happy with it (xed it). He also notes only Túrin "returning from the Doom of Men". I always understood it as, that the fate of Men is removed from the world. The Silmarillion has many hints, but tries to avoid this topic, which i can understand, because it's simply not finished yet and hard to implement. Yes the world will end, maybe made anew, dwarves will help. The status and role of Men is though unknown. I think also Tolkien's religious believes must be considered here.

Thank you :) Yes I'm happy too. It was also quite unexpected. I wrote her last year and never got an answer. Don't know why, but i wrote her again last month and this time got an answer + the permission.

Thank you, much appreciated :) Really happy to hear that my explanations work. I tried to improve those over the time making videos and e.g. start referencing connections more of e.g,. characters. Instead of just naming the character maybe explain how he is related to an existing character people most likely know etc. Or using one signature art work so people can connect it with the mentioned situation or a character, etc (I now have access (permission to use) to more art works than I had 1 or 2 years ago). So much appreciated! I think explaining the connections and implications of the lore is one the things I quite good and maybe differentiates my content from that of other great Tolkien channels on YT. I put in some work to also find and explain those and also started to use more quotes from the books, etc.

Thank you :) Was a bit worried, that it's a bit too confusing.

Thank you :)

Thank you :) Happy to hear, that it was helpful for you ^^

Thank you :) Yes Middle-earth without the Elves will be a different Middle-earth. They will be missed and slowly fade into legend I guess.

No problem, happy you liked it ^^ And thank you too for commenting!

Agreed! Did not expect it. Contacted here a year before but got no answer. Then I tried it again and she replied. That was a really good day for me ^^

Thank you :) Yes, I'm very happy that I got her permission, her art is really good. Ofc I could have just used it, but this way I'm safe (at least a bit ^^). PS: making the maps was also worth it (took a while) ^^

haha yes ^^

Thank you, happy you liked it :)

@@ThePhilosophersGames thank you!

Thank you :) Yes I was quite happy with this video in the end too ^^ Yes I know some of her artworks. Maybe I should ask her for permission to use her art work in my videos. But after contacting about 30-40 artists and only getting exactly 5 replies back, I'm a bit discouraged =/ So hard to reach these people.

ThePhilosophersGames I hope someday you will try to contact her. It must have been frustrating not even to hear back from the others. I must say also how thankful I am that you do not use cartoons/anime artwork. I feel the more representational, realistic art establishes the narrative and adds strength.

Thank you :)

Thank you, happy you enjoyed it :)

Happy it was useful for learning more about Tolkien's world, thank you for commenting too :) Did you finish the books or the films?

@@ThePhilosophersGames books first then the movies. it was an amazing experience. the ending hit me so hard so i had to know more just to marinate in that feeling lol

Thank you, much appreciated (it was a ton of work too) :) At some point it becomes a sphere and Aman is moved into Unseen To get there you must follow the old path (Straight Road), that goes though the "air" (and into the Unseen) now, because the world is bended now.

@@ThePhilosophersGames ahhh i see! you literally have to go straight without following the curve of the earth... fascinating!

That's at least how I understood it ^^

Thank you :)

I agree, it's a very sad story and maybe the closest thing of "finiteness" the elves can get, because their lives are almost "infinite" (bound to Arda), but living on Middle-earth is finite and at the same time Middle-earth is the place of their origin, their original home. I think this is such an interesting aspect of the Elves. Thank you for commenting as always and i hope you do fine ^^

@@ThePhilosophersGamesI couldn't agree more! And I am doing pretty good! Things at my school have just been pretty rough as of late haha!!! :)

Thank you :) Good to hear, because there are a lot of other good videos about this topic, so I was worried ^^

haha thank you ^^

@@ThePhilosophersGames of course

Thank you :) Yes watching all films (extended Edition ofc) in one marathon session is very fun. Happy you like my videos, thank you :)

Thank you :)

But he could no get it. He wanted to undo Eru's and the Valar's creation and create his own. But since he could not do that only nihilism was left for him.

@@ThePhilosophersGames yes that is true in a sense. but you said that melkor wanted to destroy arda, which is untrue. melkor's main goal was to have order by controlling everything. since he could not create his own beings, he resorted to corrupting the elves into orcs to become his servants. melkor cannot control arda if there is no arda.

I have to disagree here. Sauronw anted to rule as god-king, bringing Middle-earth (and if possible Arda) a new order, that is under his own will. Morgoth was very different, quote from Morgoth's Ring: Melkor's final impotence and despair lay in this: that whereas the Valar (and in their degree Elves and Men) could still love 'Arda Marred', that is Arda with a Melkor-ingredient, and could still heal this or that hurt, or produce from its very marring, from its state as it was, things beautiful and lovely, Melkor could do nothing with Arda, which was not from his own mind and was interwoven with the work and thoughts of others: even left alone he could only have gone raging on till all was levelled again into a formless chaos. And yet even so he would have been defeated, because it would still have 'existed', independent of his own mind, and a world in potential. Sauron had never reached this stage of nihilistic madness.

Happy you enjoy the content of my channel (and my attempt to pronounce Tolkien's names somewhat correctly 😅) so much ^^ Thank you, much appreciated! :)

haha 😂 that's a good way to put it

No problem, happy you liked it ^^ Well she accepted the gift of Men and dies at some point too after Aragorn's death. Oh that is cool and very fitting. What is your native language?

@@ThePhilosophersGames It is the same here as my native language, which is Malay. So far, I knew that "Aman" for safety or tranquillity is used by Malaysian and Indonesian came from Arabic word. Although, I believe it is also used in other languages by the same meaning too! Btw I just discovered your channel and this explanation is excellent! I understood every detail. subbed! :)

That's interesting and knowing Tolkien, he could have known about it. Thank you :)

I also noticed that the Celtic Otherworld is oft times referred to as the “Unseen World”. This also reminded me of Tolkien’s books. Did Tolkien ever describe in detail how the unseen world works in the Hobbit and LOTR?

I need to look into that, thanks for the information. No, not really. There are just many little hints. It seems it's the place where "magic" and other super natural elements and beings often have their origin or are connected to.

Thank you :) Happy you like the maps, a lot of work went into the Aman map. I have actually already uploaded them some time ago (I made them) :D Aman with names: imgur.com/D9N4PVf (or imgur.com/D9N4PVf.png ) Arda 1st Age: imgur.com/CrjG9QR Arda 2nd Age: imgur.com/bJPRsMg Arda 3rd Age: imgur.com/stopRV1 The Middle-earth maps are not made by me, you find them here: lotrproject.com/map or www.amazon.com/adlp/lotronprime have fun :)

@@ThePhilosophersGames you're the BEST! 😉😉😉

haha no problem :) That is not fully true though, because I have no clue how to create an album on imgur xD

@@ThePhilosophersGames yeah, but you're stil DA'BEST😉😉😉😉

The maps are so good, I was going to comment this too ☺

Thank you :) Yes, Varda is a very interesting character. I'll write it on the list ^^ PS: you make music? That's cool

@@ThePhilosophersGames I do. I can send you info privately if you are interested.

sure if you want (do you have twitter?)

Happy you liked it and thank you :) haha yes Melkor was a bit special, but I think that is just his nature. But interesting thought (what Tolkien had in mind) ^^ Yes the art works are really good. Happy I got permission.

That probably is an allusion to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the source of sin in the biblical worldview.

I disagree I feel like morgoth knew the nature of existence and the valar. He hated everything they stood for (stagnation) and he was determined to break the cycle of stagnation and and favoritism. Remember they didn't care about anything but the elves. Men were mere tools to them so he was intact right in the sense that the valar were nothing more that tyrants who wanted to control the nature of the world.

Agreed. Yes that's an interesting thought. I assume the half-elven are special in that regard.

Thank you :) No you are right! I think I just memorized the sound of the word wrong in my head. Sometimes difficult to get rid of that. Thanks for the hint ^^

@@ThePhilosophersGames I know the struggle being a non-native speaker myself🙂

Yes good point!

Thank you too for commenting and teh nice words :) I'll probably make a video about why the Ring bearers leave Middle-earth too, so it's on the list ^^ The difference residing there is the aspect of healing and peace of mind. Frodo's wounds to his body and esp. his mind can only heal there. Quite from the letter 246: Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him - if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time. So he went both to a purgatory and to a reward, for a while: a period of reflection and peace and a gaining of a truer understanding of his position in littleness and in greatness, spent still in Time amid the natural beauty of 'Arda Unmarred', the Earth unspoiled by evil. We can also read in letter 246, that one reason why Gandalf allowed Bilbo to leave Middle-earth too: His companionship was really necessary for Frodo's sake - it is difficult to imagine a hobbit, even one who had been through Frodo's experiences, being really happy even in an earthly paradise without a companion of his own kind, and Bilbo was the person that Frodo most loved. I assume Sam also going there, could be to be a companion for Frodo. Bilbo and Sam are also one of the few beings, that understood what it means to be a Ring bearer.

@@ThePhilosophersGames Thank you for the response and the citations. As always, I come away from another of your videos better informed.

No problem :) Happy you and other people enjoy my videos :)

I'll write it on my list. I somewhat mention this partially in this video (very long): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JgcnVsMAnMo.html Not sure if it's in the video about death: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HB_caRws8Fg.html

Thank you :) In Tolkien's mythology the Sun of Arda did not exist at this time. It was created when the Years of the Trees ended (a bit after the Two Trees were destroyed by Morgoth). The Sun was created out of the last fruit of one of the Two Trees of Valinor (the Tree was called Laurelin) and put onto a vessel made by Aulë. Also the Moon was made out of the last flower of the other Tree - called Telperion. The Maia Arien guided the sun and the Maia Tilion the Moon. So the Lamps were the light source of the world. Same with the trees at least for parts of Aman. That's also why the Elves love stars. When they awoke the first thing they saw was the sky and it was always night, so they saw stars. Tolkien however worked on a Round World version, here the Sun always existed, but he probably abandoned it at some point.

@@ThePhilosophersGames Thank you for answering. As I have read, after the second age the God decided to make the Arda planet round (from flat that it was). So this is a continue of the creation or other concept at all? Also from what I know when Arda became round, no men race could sail to Aman (only elves). But how it is explained? I mean that if you a map, you can say that someone can travel in both Arda versions.. :)

Aman was removed from the Seen realm. And now exists where it was before, but since the world is round now that is basically maybe in the sky and invisible for the physical world. So there's a special path only the elves can sail to reach it. How it works exactly we don't know. Yes the world got round (the oceans's bend) after Númenor was destroyed by Eru/God. Part of it so Men can't reach it anymore. Men are beings that change. Aman is a place that does not changed is is not as "marred" as e.g. Middle-earth. So Men should not dwell there. It's a place for those bound to Arda and Men are not. It's a complicated topic. Just to avoid confusion: the so called "Round World Version" is something outside of this classic mythology (where the world is flat at first and becomes round after Númenor's destruction). Tolkien wanted to change a lot of his original mythology for that (it seems), but never finished this and probably gave up on it at some point.

Thank you ^^

That's a really good question and hard to answer. Some make the argument, that Sauron does his own thing now, but on the other side a lot of his power is based on Morgoth's own power (that he infused into the world itself). So I guess he would have to work with him and Sauron also would have no other place to go (no other potential allies).

Hello to all of you and especially to Its-Showtime Sorry for the time it took me to send this little message......... But, after all, I’m Swiss ! So, this explains that ..... First, I don’t pretend to be an « expert of the writings, from the Great J.R.R. Tolkien !!!! I’m just a GREAT « fan », and more.... of his extraordinary writings ! So, I « see » this, like this : in the Silmarillion, it is said that Melkor, was « punished », by the other Valar, because of what he did ( for ex. to the Two fabulous Great Trees, with a ‘ little help of his great « friend », Ungoliant !! Of course, he was « punished »...... by the other Valar ! After some time, this big a......h...., after having made all the promesses, he could find, that he will never never never do something baaaad, again, Manwë, and the other Valar, freed him ! And, OF COURSE, ( like with the humans...... ! ), it took not a big deal of time, to this congenital idiot, to « re-take » his old habits !! And, of course, all of you know what did happened !! BUT, now, we must not forget what he was since the beginning ! He was still, nearly the strongest Valar !! And the other « idiot », in the middle of all that, was still a Maïar ! Maybe, the most devious of all others. ( Maïar ), but even so, he would NEVER have enough power, to « dominate », his former Master !!! I just can’t understand, what « pleasure », brings the fact to have Powers !! Anyway, both of these two idiots, are gone, for good !! So, now, we can sleep on our two ears !! Hi hi ! Bey bey and take care of you !

You mean the image from The Land beyond the sunset? It's in a weird way mythological as well. The story is extremely sad though. Spoiler or watch it here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Land_Beyond_the_Sunset or here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6Hr0u6KKL_c.html (it's just 13-14 minutes long and public domain by now, but warning it hits hard at the end, if you don't know what's coming) It's about a poor boy who sells newspapers and he gets a ticket to a picnic for poor children organised by the Fresh Air Fund. When he returns home, his abusive grandmother which whom he lives is not happy, because he did not bring the money. Later the boy sneaks out of his home at night/early morning to go to the event and has a fantastic day there. During the picnic the children are told a fairy tale story (so here is the mythological part), that mentions the "land beyond the sunset". The protagonist of this fairly tale is saved by fairies from a witch and he uses a boat guided by the fairies to reach this shining land beyond the sunset. When the event is over the boy fears to go home and goes to the beach. Like the protagonist in the fairy tale, which whom I guess he can identify, he climbs into a boat without oars and it slowly moves into the direction of the sunset on the wide ocean. In a way Tolkien's idea is similar. Go west (sunset) to a mythological better place, where your weariness and wounds can be healed. The potential unfortunate twist of The Land Beyond the Sunset is though that it plays in our real world, in New York. It can be interpreted as that it becomes a fairy tale at the end as well and the boy leaves he real world and enter a mythological world. Or that the boy will die alone on the sea and that he considered that fate or trying to find happiness greater than returning to his actual life. Tolkien's view and approach is more optimistic I think and less emotionally devastating than The Land Beyond The Sunset.

@@ThePhilosophersGames thankyou very much. it can also be said so about all of Tolkien's characters which by their own foolhardiness sail out in an attempt to find the blessed realm for any reason: whether they fail or succeed, they are Never seen again by mortal Men

One could think that, but there is more to it. I wrote an answer to a similar question some time ago, I just copy the text, might be interesting It's the mythology of England and it can be compared to America, but it's still not that. Aman is not anymore directly on the other side of the ocean in the west after the Fall of Númenor. It was "removed" from the world and is where it was before the world was bent to a sphere. So up in the air if you will (it's more in an aspect of the Unseen I guess). You need to follow the so called "Straight Road" to get there and usually only Elven ships can do that. Tolkien worked on a little story about an Anglo-Saxon (in our world year ~869 AD) called Ælfwine, who finds the Straight Road and sails to Aman. It's part of the mythological past of the world. If that makes sense. And America was maybe raised in the west when Eru made Arda a sphere, but that is not where the Elves are going.

Thank you much appreciated :) The topic is really difficult and has a lot of detail to it, so it's really tough to answer, happy that is succeeded to some degree. I know ofc that there are some shortcuts i have to take here and there and some is also just my interpretation what I know.

"So... Who's brightest idea was to walk into a cave which lead to the destruction of Sauron?" Gandalf: "... See the dwarfs.."

It took our species 100000+ years to do so 😅 But Tolkien had the idea of making Númenor really advanced, having air ships, steam engines and maybe even guns, but he decided against it. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NdbV3w65PCw.html

Yes it's really is impressive. A work of a lifetime.

haha happy you found your way ^^

Yes, there is this story where someone (Ælfwine or Eriol as he is called by the Elves) in our times finds the so called "Straight Road" and sails to Aman. The canon of this can be as always debated, but it's a very interesting idea

Arwen (as halfelven) accepted the Gift of Men (which is being mortal; see e.g. letter 153) when she married Aragorn, so she would have died as all mortal Men do at some point. Complicated topic, but i hope this helps ^^ Sources: Letter 153: "When she weds Aragorn (whose love-story elsewhere recounted is not here central and only occasionally referred to) she 'makes the choice of Lúthien', so the grief at her parting from Elrond is specially poignant." Also Appendix A of LotR: "But to the children of Elrond a choice was also appointed: to pass with him from the circles of the world; or if they remained to become mortal and die in Middle-earth. For Elrond, therefore, all chances of the War of the Ring were fraught with sorrow."

Yes it is better explained in the books, but as you see the topic is complicated. However I must say the ending still works. The films establish, that the Elves leave Middle-earth (not where and why though, because it's so hard to explain) and that Frodo comes with them and he will never see his friends again, which created this emotional ending. But ofc if you ask beyond that it becomes complicated. But it's how LotR ends. Though Sam, Gimli and Legolas also sail to Aman later.

No problem, happy it could answer your question ^^ And thank you too for commenting! It's really a complex topic and I think a lot of people ask themselves this question.

A very good question. The short answer: Men are not allowed to enter Aman at all (there are few exceptions though). The half-elven Eärendil, who is Elrond's father, did this in the First Age, which started the War of Wrath and ended the First Age with Melkor being banned into the void. For the Second Age and beyond the Valar decided to use a more subtle approach and send help in the form of the Wizards/Istari. I'll write this question on my list for future lore videos too ^^

ThePhilosophersGames thanks. This was something I’ve wondered about, it’s sort of the equivalent to us being able to send a ship to heaven and petition God to help with the problems on Earth... it might take some balls but you know someone would try it eventually lol.

Yes that's a good comparison ^^

@@ThePhilosophersGames I wished Faramir, Eowyn, Beregond, Bergil, Borlas, Imrahil and Tom Bombadil went there too

Sailing to Aman is usually a one way ticket. You go there to stay (until the world end and is created anew). In a sense that is comparable to some believe is of the afterlife (e.g. "heaven"), but you skip the dying part to get there. Fordo went to Aman to heal. Every year at the same time his wound started hurting again and as you say he was traumatized (also through carrying the One Ring and losing it) in a way that he could not find peace in Middle-earth. I think his joy of being alive in the world with his friends was diminished. A constant sorrow on his heart. He (and maybe Gandalf and others) came to the conclusion that leaving Middle-earth is the only way to find healing of mind and body. In Aman live the Valar and Maiar and they maybe can heal him also the land of Aman (the west continent) does not really change, but ofc Frodo would and age - at some point dying there. There is a text in teh Unfinished Tales where Galadriel describes her weariness and says that in Aman Gras, flowers, etc do not wither. Ofc Tolkien clarifies, it's the immortal inhabitants that make Aman the Undying Lands, it is not the land itself. From the Silamrillion: "And were you so to voyage that escaping all deceits and snares you came indeed to Aman, the Blessed Realm, little would it profit you. For it is not the land of Manwë that makes its people deathless, but the Deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land; [...]" At the end of LotR Arwen gave her grace of being allowed to go to Aman to Frodo, that is why he could go there.

I think of Aman as a mix, inspired by different mythological places. Like Avalon, as a place that has a physical location but also is in a kind of otherworld, unreachable for most people. Also is is like Olympus, home of the Gods. And influenced by the christian heaven, as a place where the dead go.. in Tolkien's version however only for elves and the like. So, it is afterlive in a way. Not the default afterlife how it would be for a hobbit though.

@@Clayne151 Places like Avalon. Eden.

@@ThePhilosophersGames You forgot Legolas, Gimli, Elladan, Elrohir and Sam went to the Undying Lands.

@@TheLatiosnlatias02 I think it's never stated if Elladan and Elrohir sail to Aman or not. But yes Sam as Ring bearer is said to sail to Aman too and Gimli also got the grace to go there (sailing with Legolas). These are all exceptions though.

Oh sorry for that. The answer is quite complicated. But basically there is another continent west of Middle-earth called Aman. It's the land of the "gods" (angels would be a more fitting term) and it's less infused by evil than Middle-earth. That is why Elves need to go there, because they can't endure the evil for ever. Maybe this clears things up a tiny bit.

ThePhilosophersGames ahh, yes. Thank you 🙂

Oh interesting. I'm from Germany though ^^

@@ThePhilosophersGames Super! Tolles Video. Abonniert!

@@jorgen1990 Thank you ^^

and we also have few words in turkish language like arda and beren.meanings are not the same but we do.so many languages have commons.even in their old forms.the more you get back, the more they unites.at the there was only one continent, one language before people started to move.

Here are some names that would interest you - Variag - Russian for Viking Gondar - a place in Ethiopia. Hence the name Gondor. Isengard - a pun for Eyes and Guard Gandalfr - Derived from gandr ("magic, charm, magic wand") and alfr ("elf"). Don't know why they chose the name Gandalf when he has no elf traits. Balin - Hindi origin meaning "mighty sword" Arwen - Welsh for “fair” or “fine". Fród - Old English for "experience". And Frodo learned things by experience, the hard way. Merry - "after the third beer he began to feel quite merry" Pippin - means apple Samwise - Derived from the ancient English "Samwís", meaning "half-wise" or "simple". Boromir is a Bulgarian, Serbian word for "Battle" and "peace". Fitting name to suit his yin yang traits. Faramir. To break it down "Fara" in Old High German for "traveller" and "mir" is a Bulgarian and Serbian word for "peace". Such choice goes well with his traits. òrco - Italian for "ogre". Hence the name orcs. Uruk - an ancient city of Sumer (and later of Babylonia) situated east of the present bed of the Euphrates River on the dried-up ancient channel of the Euphrates 30 km (19 mi) east of modern Samawah, Al-Muthannā, Iraq. Here's a name for Uruk Hai. Harad - comes from a Hindi word (हृदय - Hrday meaning Heart) Oliphant is obvious as it is derived from Medieval Latin Olifantus. Nazgul - Derived from Persian ناز (naz) meaning "delight, comfort" and گل (gol) meaning "flower, rose". It's a Kazakh name for girls. Aragón - An autonomous region of north-eastern Spain, bounded on the north by the Pyrenees and on the east by Catalonia and Valencia. Lego (Leg godt) means "play well" in Danish. Las is a French word that means "the ace". It would symbolise Legolas being competitive against Gimli. Gimli, a place in In Norse Mythology where the survivors of Ragnarok were to live, meaning "highest heaven" or "lee of flames". His temper sums up everything. Gambling, that would mean he gambled his own life on the Pelennor Fields. However it is unknown whether or not he survived. In the Mercian dialect of Anglo-Saxon, the word "Searu" means "clever", "skilful" or "ingenious". Here we have Saruman. Eomer was, according to the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, the great-great-grandfather of Creoda of Mercia, the first King of Mercia. He is considered the ancestor to the Kings of Mercia. It is possible that Eomer got that name. Øwyn - the name in Welsh means "Horse friend". Suffice to say Eowyn's name came from that Welsh name. þjóðann - Old Norse for "Leader of the people". Hence the name Theoden. Morðor - Old English for "murder" or Mordre which is French for "bite" Haldir is a variant name for Haldor - The meaning of the name is Thor's rock. Aileron (French for "little wing" or "fin"). That name sounds close to Elrond. Here's why Gandalf advised "Fly, you fools!"

Thank you ^^ Yes my trill might be a bit strong, though it's round about how Tolkien described the pronunciation of the R in his languages (and it's also like this in many languages of old, like Old English, Old Norse, Gothic, etc). PS: I found the phrase "like an Indian How-To video" quite funny 😂

Who exactly sauron and melkor spent their time?

lol

Elrond=Thingol Aragorn=Beren Arwen=Luthien Similarities

Gees I agree! Elrond was a real piece of work. His way or nothing! No wonder all his children remained as mortals!!

:D

nice ^^ How did you like it?

@@ThePhilosophersGames 10000000/10

There is a lot of information in the books. Appendices of Lord of the Rings, Unfinished Tales and in this case a lot can be found in Morgoth's Ring (how canon the book outside of LotR are, is another story)

Turns out the trilled R is a common sound in many other languages and esp. in Tolkien's languages.

Yes ^^ Quote from Appendix B of The Lord of the Rings: "Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring."

@@ThePhilosophersGames Damn .You are good at this 😅

haha thank you ^^ Yes after all those years I got some routine 😂

They are bound to Arda (so to one world; that was the condition for entering it), which was created by God/Eru, but was "formed" by the Valar and Maiar. I think they can't create a new world without God's help. The Minecraft comparison is maybe not bad. They can shape the world, but only the Admin can generate a new world/seed, if that makes sense. Melkor dreams of his own creation, but he has not the power to make it and he is bound to Arda too, so he wants to undo it. Very nihilistic. I think Melkor got a lot of resistance. He was defeated twice. First time he was thrown into the Halls of Mandos for 3 Ages and the second time banned into the void. And there are always powers who work against him. he is just very powerful (his power is widely spread), which makes it difficult to fight him.

I'm not too deep into Lucky Luke Lore ^^ but I always wondered too :D

one can only go so far into the sunset before hitting the ocean!

haha yes and if the world is different from our's, it should become very hot at some point too. Also looking straight into the sun will damage your eyes :D

well he hept going west after every story so my guest is ... California =))))))))

They know what's good for them 😂

That would be strange because a lot of his ancestors (when not get killed also got as old or even older. E.g. Elros lived for 500 years). And it's also not unusual for other Dúnedain to live that long.

Aragorn's long life is due to his heritage passed down from Melian the Maia, and the greatest houses of Elves and Men combined. The men of Gondor didn't enjoy that long life, and they too came from the West; it's his lineage that has blessed Aragon, not his proximity to the Elves.

@@reneedailey1696 it has to do with his ancestors being from Númenor (esp. being from the King's line). It was a gift. quote from the Silmarillion: To the Fathers of Men of the three faithful houses rich reward also was given. Eönwë came among them and taught them; and they were given wisdom and power and life more enduring than any others of mortal race have possessed. Aragorn's ancestors on the form of Melian and some Elves are so far away from him, that it imo only plays a minor role here. He is a descendent of the Numenoreans and of the Kings of Númenor and the long life became a trait of these people.

Yes Frodo died at some point in Valinor. He was still mortal. There's a good Tolkien quote to answer this from the Silmarillion: "And were you so to voyage that escaping all deceits and snares you came indeed to Aman, the Blessed Realm, little would it profit you. For it is not the land of Manwë that makes its people deathless, but the Deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land;[...]"

haha thank you, happ you enjoy that aspect of my content ^^ A lot of research went into learning the phonology of Tolkien's languages and friends, so much appreciated :)

Agreed, really good point. It's not a place for Men. Frodo also only goes there, so his pain and suffering might be healed (same with the other Ring bearers, who also travel there quite late in their lives).

@@ThePhilosophersGames Got me thinking of Bilbo, Frodo, Sam and Gimli living in Valinor. To a mortal, it'd probably be just like a retirement home where you could die in peace. But there will come a time that Elves and the Ainur will envy mortality as stated. It must be too horrible to even imagine yourself living as an Elf. You're forever bound to the world with all its burdens. Immortality and eternal beauty have their price. 😔

Not to mention that the power of the beings who live there has hallowed the land to the point that mortals actually fade faster, should they enter therein.

that is a good question ^^ considering the very low birthrates of Elves, I don't think that this will happen any "time soon" (in the context of this fictional world). But for sure if we would move time on indefinitely, this could become a problem. But if we compare it to our world, it took our species around 120000 years to get where we are right now and Elves reproduce at much slower rates (but ofc are immortal). Elrond was like almost 4000 years old when he became father and with 3 children (his sons are twins) he is almost an exception among the Elves. So it would take a very long time for this to happen at this rate. Tolkien considered that Arda would be destroyed and rebuilt at one point in its history.

You mean the games? No it would take place before it in the Second Age.

@@ThePhilosophersGames after the movies?

It plays before the films. Even before the prologue scene with Isildur cutting of Sauron's ring.

@@ThePhilosophersGames so is it set during the hobbit films? Or was tje hobbit films set after the second age as well?

The Hobbit plays also in the Third Age. Around 60 to 80 years prior to Lord of the Rings. The Amazon series plays 6400 to 3019 prior to Lord of the Rings (depending when exactly it will take place, which is unknown). Here a small overview: *Third Age:* Frodo leaving the Shire with the One Ring in Lord of the Rings - Third Age 3018 Bilbo's 111th Brithday party (and Frodo's 33rd) - Third Age 3001 Bilbo finding the One Ring in The Hobbit - Third Age 2941 [...] Isildur is killed and the One Ring lost in the river Anduin - Third Age 2 *Second Age:* Isildur cutting off the One Ring from Sauron's hand - Second Age 3441 The Amazon Tolkien related series will play before that -> So somewhere between Second Age 1 and Second Age 3441 I hope that helps ^^

I got similar comments several times in the past and the idea of Aman representing America seems ofc very plausible, but there is still more to it. Here's a copy of a previous answer I wrote, elaborating a bit on it. The Silmarillion is the mythology of England and it can be compared to America, but it's still not that. Aman is not anymore directly on the other side of the ocean in the west after the Fall of Númenor. It was "removed" from the world and is where it was before the world was bent to a sphere. So up in the air if you will (it's more in an aspect of the Unseen I guess). You need to follow the so called "Straight Road" to get there and usually only Elven ships can do that. Tolkien worked on a little story about an Anglo-Saxon (in our world year ~869 AD) called Ælfwine, who finds the Straight Road and sails to Aman. It's part of the mythological past of the world. If that makes sense. And America was maybe raised in the west when Eru made Arda a sphere, but that is not where the Elves are going.

@@ThePhilosophersGames Except the Simarillion is fantasy and America is real. If you sail west from Europe, that's where you get.

I don't understand that argument. Yes, but the Elves exist in the fictional fantasy world of the Simarillion, so yes they Sail not to America, they sail to Aman. Aman does not represent America though. On a meta level they sail to the mythological part of the world and leave the boundaries of the real world. Tolkien wrote a story that takes place in our world about an Ango-Saxon man called Ælfwine around 869 A.D. he sials west but not to America, which is a real place in teh world, but to the mythological aspect of the world called (Aman), where still live the Elves.

@@ThePhilosophersGamesLast night, I was just reading a footnote in an Icelandic saga that the actual elves were deified ancestors of the Norse that were worshipped. So though the Silmarillion elves were fictional, they were drawn from actual Norse history, as was "the Westfold," and countless other data bits making up Tolkien's Middle Earth (a term describing this world historically used by the Norse). In the real Middle Earth of a thousand years ago, an iteration of which is in LOTR, sailing West from the Westfold got you to the New World, whatever Tolkein might choose to call it in the Silmarillion.

I don't think the Elves in north mythology sailed to America though. The North Men themselves sailed to America. That is imo a difference (even if they would be related). Ofc if you sail west from Europe you reach America at some point. If you Sail west from Middle-earth you reached Aman before the destruction of Númenor If you sail to the place in the west where Aman was before the world was round (in "space"), but after the destruction of Númenor (Straight Road) you reach Aman too. But if you sail west long after Númenor was destroyed, you maybe reach America too, but there are no Elves. Elves sail to Aman, even long after the destruction of Númenor via the Straight Road. As a result Aman does most likely not represent America, but I'm not sure if it was that what you meant originally or if it was just a fun comment or you simply connected Tolkien inspirations with the real world and drew a conclusion. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, just was curious what you mean. But yes if you Sail west, you reach America in our world and maybe at some point in Arda too, but that is not where Aman is. North mythology is not the only inspiration for Tolkien though. I'm not sure. Is travelling to America mentioned in North mythology?

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

lol

@@turkishpornxplogamesmom6597 you are freaking beautiful, this is your real picture?

But that is how Tolkien said the names should be pronounced 😅

It's how Tolkien described the R in his words. It's fascinating I screw up the pronunciation so many times, like stress, etc. but it's always the trilled R, that people seem to comment on. Funnily enough the trilled R is a very common pronunciation for the R in many other languages and esp. in languages of old like Anglo-Saxon/Old English, Old Norse, etc.

atrrrrocious :) I know some people dislike it (I think you mean my pronunciation of LotR names). But as mentioned in the video I try to pronounce things as Tolkien described it or it makes sense. I even made a video about it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vORol7PQeYk.html In case you mean my German accent, sorry, can't change that :(

Tolkien described the R in names of his languages as trilled sound (it is also often that case in languages of old, e.g. Old English, but obviously also Old Norse, Gothic, etc). It's a very common sound even today. Quote from Appendix E of The Lord of the Rings: "R represents a trilled r in all positions; the sound was not lost before consonants (as in English part)." So no matter where in the word the R is trilled (so not tapped). Due to my language background, I have a relatively strong trill. I know some people dislike it, but for me it's just a normal sound. I got the hint with "realm" often 😅 I corrected the pronunciation in future videos (at some point). There are some English words I pronounce not correctly. Chemical is another classic 😂 I don't mind people criticising my videos, but I would appreciate a more friendly tone

@@ThePhilosophersGames As someone who rolls his r's while naturally speaking, I don't mind it! Your voice was pleasant to hear while hearing your explanations and I'd also rather hear all of Tolkien's mythology names pronounced correctly rather than have them butchered by native english speakers (as I often hear them do in other lotr lore videos)

@@AlexLopez-ti1vr Thank you, much appreciated :) I would say the feedback on me trying to say the names correctly is overall positive, but it seems it also triggers some people. From other Tolkien Lore RU-vidrs I know, that people complain when they anglicise the names. I guess no matter how you do it, you can't make it right for everyone 😅 I can understand why some anglicise the names though. Can make voice recording a lot smoother and some struggle with some sounds.