I think Cadians are underrated. With the command squad, they can never be OC0 as long as they have an officer, which makes them the premier objective seizing infantry choice. They're meant to wrest an objective from your opponent via OC advantage, weather the fightphase, and either move up or fallback, letting the point get mopped up and held bu unit with more presence like infantry squads krieg, or heavier units like tanks. Shock Troops allow you to maintain momentum and pressure in a way other units can't, and that is under utilized. Catachan doesn't have the firepower and krieg and infantry can't permanently flip an objective as fast.
Thanks dude, I value your input. Can't rhe normal command sqaud achieve the same thing? The regimental standard is avaliable on both and it makes them always oc1 even if they fail battle shock...
@@GuardsmanHanan While yes, this technically be accomplished with a standard Platoon Command Squad's Regimental Standard, the Cadian Version can achieve this without the flag leaving you free for more special weapons, and because of the Shock Troops ability, Cadians can capture the point then fall back in the next turn, and because of sticky and their natively high OC, they will still hold the objective while not being tied up in close combat, leaving the point open to be cleaned up by another infantry unit or tank in shooting. Guard is a shooting army, after all. Alternatively, you could also throw in a Castellan with the command squad for an addtional [fall back and shoot] and [sustained hits] in shooting.
I think like in real life, combined arms is the best deal with our Infantry. Take a few Catachan to score and screen. Take 1 Infantry to stay with Platoon Command Squad, one Cadian starting at your base, then moving towards secondary primary and screen on the way. Kriegs for map control. Scions are great, but they fall short vs smart opponent’s that know how to screen, with the point decrease I would use them more offensively. Ogryn are the only I would pass, but at some point I used 6 inside transports for the Toughness. Bullgryns are great if used as a counter offensive tool in the middle. And Karskin, were amazing, but they cost more now, and I would only take 1. I haven't tried Ratlings due to their bad stats. I think your analysis is on point. Well done.
Catachans scout should maybe put them at movement 3,5 and infantry squards heavy weapons put them at movement 2,5. Oh and it's pronounced Kasrkin... You're welcome:)
Yeah not sure how I missed the Catachans movement and good point on the Inf sqaud movement. I will pronounce Kasrkin correctly one day. It took me 2 years to pronounce Chimera properly if that's a guide 😀
The Cadians have a bit more flexibility than the video rated them as they are the only unit with the Cadian command squad. The Cadian banner stopping any effect to most Cadian dice roles means more Cadian hits, wounds, and fewer failed battleshock rolls. This makes a big difference shooting at Eldar and Chaos units using strategies affecting to hit rolls, for instance.
The cadian banner is powerful but is it really going to make the difference when applied to lasguns, some plasma and melta guns? If it was an aura it could be super powerful but I'm not convinced when on just Cadians?
I like the 20 man Cadian blobs with castellan and command squad. the fall back and shoot just lets you put them wherever you need them. Even right through the enemy.
Ratlings are VERY good for their utility. Previously haven’t been running them as kasrkin have been providing scout pressure but they’re harder to fit into a list now. Against enemy armies with infiltrate you can secure your own scout moves and in matchups like world eaters you can place them last to stop the Eightbound cross-map charge threat. In addition, if none of these threats exist then they do very well in reserve. Been many occasions when I can come in from a board edge and move, shoot, move onto an objective. I think if you feel like infiltrators are necessary for your army, they’re the best option as every other Infiltrator option gives up Assassinate points.
In your opinion, are leaders a "tax" now? In older editions there was a "trooper tax" and now it seems to be the opposite. Also, whats your opinion on regular infantry squads led by a dkk marshal?
For me I've been running infilitrate in my competitive lists every time. If you go first you can hem people into their deployment zone in some cases, possibly even doing nuisance charges to transports, or score certain secondaries if theyre drawn at the beginning. Stopping the enemy from securing the middle and dictationg the battle seems pretty important. Ratlings do this, and dont really need orders for it
@@GuardsmanHanan it is expensive but I feel like it's a worthy sacrifice if it gets you 5 vps or stops your opponent getting 5 vps. Same as a 25 point cyclops getting 2vps justifys it to me. Then by that ratio youd be spending about 2/3 of your points to get the 90 available vp and have 600 ish points to spend on raw firepower like artillery. Up until the recent changes I was running the death Korps riders and character for infiltrate and it still seemed ok
@alanredmond88 good stuff Alan. What do you think is the new Guard build post balance dataslate? I'm struggling to find a new formula albeit I've only played into Orks and Black Templars post slate so tough match ups
@@GuardsmanHanan Well for what its worth I was running - roughly- Lord solar and creed. 1 Ratling and 1 death rider for infiltrate. 1 catachan 2 kasrkin + chimera for scout. Scout + infiltrate gives me some board control. 2 russes 2 sentinel 2 basilisk 2 medusa carriage for killing. 2 scions and a cyclops for secondaries. Hopefully by the time the enemy have gotten round the scouts and the infiltrate Ive killed them and/or outscored them. Now I'll try swap basilisks for earthshaker carriage and swap death riders for 2nd ratlings to pay for points increase on kasrkin. Hopefully roughly as good, though yet to use it
Infantry Squads don't create the Scout-mera in the way that Catachans do so their movement should be lower, as well as leaning toward being more static due to their heavy weapons. Agree with the below posters who give Infantry Squads 2.5 movement and Catachans at 3.5.. Also Scions - with their to-hit re-rolls combo'd with the Taurox Prime and / or the sustained hits of a Tempestus Command Squad pushes their damage to at least a 4 - easily competing with Kasrkin. Scions are now cost-efficiency superior, for 120 points you get a 50 point 5 man Tempestus Squad plus for 70 points a Command Squad giving you 6 special weapons in total, 2 Hotshot lasguns, a power fist and Plasma Pistol on the Tempestor and Sustained Hits from the Tempestor Prime and another plasma pistol shot. That SLAPS Kasrkin.
Haha thanks Stephen. Using s/sheets is a unique way to review 40k units. I haven't nailed the approach yet but am getting there, any feedback is always welcome!
This analysis doesn't clearly measure points costs. You go back at the end and say "well, catachans have half the offense score of other battleline, but actually that's good because they're 5 points cheaper and show up in pro lists" which is a fair conclusion but tells me that your scores are gibberish. The bullgryn scored slightly higher than the ogryn, but are much more expensive, so naturally they are given the thumbs up while the ogryn are judged to be useless. What? If you're just going to tell us to look at pro lists and take what they take then you don't need a bar graph. And for the record, ogryn damage output is far above bullgryn output for the cost. If positioned well, three ogryn will shoot and kill an average of four space marines, which means they generally have a good chance of making thier points back in kills in a single shooting phase AND they don't mind doing nuisance charges.
I agree, my take on the points cost is poor and worst part of this analysis. I tried capturing the PPM vs an average of the 4 criteria via formulas but its hard to convey in a way that is easily digestible. I think it shows that there isnt a 'formula' on what a 'good' 40k unit is although I think there is a way to work it all out. I will keep thinking about it for future videos. How would you factor in the points cost into this?
@@GuardsmanHanan All stats, but especially offense and defense need to be rated proportionally to the cost. I'm not sure there's a perfect way to calculate that but I've found a few rules of thumb I like: offensively, I first identify the unit's ideal target, (ie guardsman equivalents, marine equivalents, terminator equivalents,
@@GuardsmanHanan thank you! I've been using these kinds of measurements for a while now and I'm excited that they might help someone else. 40k gets way more complicated than this with oc, movement, keyword interactions, buffs/debuffs etc., but a LOT of listbuilding decisions are made at the level of "how much damage can I get with how much durability?" Then the issue is finding the ratio of infantry, termy, and tank -killing stuff you want in your list, since just moving up one category can easily halve a weapon's effectiveness.
this is why we dont do pick up games anymore.... we play toy soldiers to have fun, not as a competition. tourney mindset fun for them, cool, but it seems the younger generations dont just play to play, its always a tourney to them... they play the rules, not the toys, we play the toys, not the rules. gen-X wargaming club, Alaska. cool video, but useless for me.. show off more toy soldiers... dont care about tourney rules, only rule of cool
Why would you let one video on the internet that’s a thought exercise get you down? Just go play for fun with your friends or at the flgs. It’s still a thing.
All good. I'm an early gen Y'er. I don't think 40k really allows for truly casual play anymore. With the 'meta' quite broad both from an overall army POV and across different units within each army, what would be a fluff army in one vs an other could be horribly unbalanced with one person getting flattened. All based on what I feel vs what I know however....
@@nraketh no, its not a thing, FLGS is tourney mindset, thats why we stick to our club game and dont play with the youngers... and its not 'one video', most 40k gaming content is tourney minded, playing to win a contest, rather than playing toy soldiers. many younger people cant even understand the point im making. the video is a good video, and it will serve win at all cost players well, and that seems to be 40k gamming culture now. that and political correctness.... no nazi themed imp guard (ok, thats cool), soviet themed guard allowed.... why? left wing bs, bad nazis killed 11 million, evil commies murdered over 100 million... personally i like my army of good guys mowing down bad guys, so i wouldnt mind fighting commie, or nazi armies, its a game. but i hate the modern political correctness. one store here in town wont allow trump supporters (their business, their right to refuse service), point of my rant, too many dont know how to play army men, its all just win at all costs while arguing politics, gender, or whatever else bullshit is going on. sorry, old man rant over. have fun, how ever you play
