Which Loyalist Chapters Were Created Using Traitor Geneseed? | Warhammer 40k Lore 

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There is one more hint that the Silver Skulls are Iron Warriors. There is a story where an inquisitor uncovered some secret about their founding and geneseed, but rather than reveal it (as she determined the chapter was 100% loyal) instead sent this info to their chapter master and their 1st company captain. The two Silver Skulls were greatly disturbed by this information, though stating the information would "both condemn and exonerate" their chapter. Thus it would make sense as the condemn part would be "traitor geneseed", but also would be exonerated because they are basically descended from members of a traitor legion who remained loyal and due to being considered honorary Ultramarines during the heresy, formed their own chapter afterwarss Which checks out with the theory that they have been Iron Warriors the entire time and Guilliman just claimed they were Ultramarines to cover for them., likely making sure future generations of the chapter wouldn't even know the truth to prevent it from getting out.

I had the idea of a chapter that's listed as Ultramarine stock but are hinted at having Angron geneseed. Instead of bloodthirsty world eaters, as children of his true self, theyre accomplished empaths, medics and speakers, adept at rallying troops and inspiring hope, that find battles everyone thinks lost to either turn the tide or get as many civilians out as possible.

I hope we get to see how Lion "Space Tywin Lannister" El'Jonson react to the Primaris Space Marines for the Dark Angels and their successor chapters.

I think Bellisarius Cawl said it best through the Cawl inferior in Dark Imperium to Guilliman, "The warriors were not at fault, the science was not at fault, the primarchs were. Chapters from your lineage have fallen to chaos and we do not censure them."

I think the Soul Drinkers were actually either 2ed or 11th legion, since we know that the Fists (along with the Ultramarines) absorbed the remnants of those legions into their own. Since everyone's memories of this were wiped, it would then make sense why everyone was 100% certain they were fists until they checked their geneseed

You have to wonder if the Sons of the Phoenix are some sort of elaborate double bluff from Cawl. Like, he made it so blatantly obvious that someone's gonna call him out but, after testing the geneseed, it turns out they are indeed genuine sons of Dorn. Meanwhile every other, less obvious Primaris chapter is riddled with traitor geneseed but everyone's too embarrassed to call him out a second time!

So glad you mentioned the Blood Ravens as they became canon. Love how people theorised their connection to the Thousand Sons, then that too became canon. I love the fandom

The Silver Skulls also have a heavy Greek influence, with the idea of basing battle plans on oracle's predictions being very much a thing in ancient Greece, which is obviously a strong narrative link to Pertarabo's home world.

Would be interesting if we could get a book of one of the traitor geneseed chapters going up against their daemon primarch and their legion. The entire time having a strange sense during the campaign, but keep it subtle so it’s ‘confirmed’ but not really.

I know very little about the shark boys but the possibility of them having a bit of Konrad in them makes me very happy, especially considering the Night Lords have effectively disbanded.

Man, imagine if Clonegrim became the Primarch of the Sons of the Phoenix chapter

I heard once a theory that the Astral Claws were Luna Wolf successors, but the only thing pointing towards that, as far as I can see, is that their chaptermaster was very charismatic.

I would love to see a video on the living saints and how they died

Cheers mate, now that the Lion no longer sleeps tonight, could you cover what the Imperium would look like if he was the one who woke up instead of Guilliman? Also the other primarchs?

Getting a video about how each of the pre heresy primarchs would have reacted to being in Guillimans current situation would be pretty cool ngl

My pet theory was also that the Minotaurs came from Iron Warriors stock. I think the brutal efficiency is one thing, but the fact they're really chill with mechanizing a large part of their chapter/use a lot of cybernetics made me think of Perty's whole thing about liking to use robots. Also found it funny because his home world is Olympia, so Minotaurs....

The Silver Skulls also have the greatest ship name I've heard yet; 'The Manifest Destiny'

The best Soul Drinker theory I'd heard was that they were an Alpha Legion successor due to their relic the Soulspear. Apparently Dorn gave it to them upon their founding and its gene locked to a specific gene seed (assumed to be Dorn) and so only worked for particular marines. Now we know 2 things for sure- One, Soul Drinkers were not an Imperial Fist Successor and two, after the battle of Pluto Dorn found himself in possession of a relic spear after 'liberating' Alpharius of it.

Roboute Guilliman did warn Belisarius Cawl to not use the Traitor Legion geneseed for the Primaris Space Marine program. Cawl used them anyway.

there is also some lore around the lost primarch's legions being partially absorbed into other legions during the great crusade, this could be an explanation for supposed ultramarine/imperial fist successors not matching geneseed

I’m shocked you didn’t mention the Storm Wardens at all, who are one of the most agreed upon Chapters to be of Traitor Geneseed. Heck, a large number of their Veterans from centuries/millennias ago sealed themselves away deep inside their Fortress Monastery to both preserve the knowledge & to not damn the rest of the Chapter who were unaware of it. As for what legion their geneseed came from, they’re heavily implied to be World Eaters due to their gladiator culture & preference for melee.

I wonder what would be the other primarchs responses to Guliman's situation.

I'm actually a huge fan of The Sons of The Pheonix. They're literally just Loyal Emperor's Children and I'm there for it!

If I may add another potential traitor-descendant chapter : the Red Scorpions. They could be from the Word Bearers, showcasing extreme devotion to the Imperial Faith and the Codex. Another possibility is that they are of Emperor's Children's lineage. It makes a bit more sense, especially considering their obsession for genetic purity, the fact that they field a great number of Apothecaries, and also their pride, notably with a clear disdain for camouflage.

The carcharodons are my favourite successor chapter currently building a small carcharon army but im not confident in my skills to build a better tyberos yet so i just bought the forge world one 😆

This video got me hype for the idea that the Sons of the Phoenix are a setup for Clonegrim to have a proper army behind him when he gets out of his pokeball

Imagine the stories we could've gotten If the imperium allowed loyalist members of traitor legions to have their own chapters under the names of the pre primarch legions like the luna wolves, dusk raiders, war hounds etc

You should make a sharrowkyn video, man is the reason the traitors didn’t get their hands on the genetic templates of the primarchs

A interesting idea, a Night Lord successor Chapter that's similar to the old school Night Lords as suggested in yesterday's video … _ethical_

It's more or less confirmed that the Storm Wardens from the FFG rpg are World Eater successors. If I remember the developer correctly they were a reference to the loyalist World Eaters of the Dornian Heresy.

regarding Blood Ravens, actually only Captain Thule knows some very controversial secrets of that chapter when he discovered it on Planet Kronus during the Dark Crusade campaign. However, he destroyed those secrets so no one else knows about them.

Missed a few, such as: Red Hunters__Alpha Legion Red Scorpions__Emperors Children And Exorcists__Word Bearers

i'd love some Luna Wolves style chapter. if only because primaris marines with some close quarter doctrines and bayonets on their bolt guns sounds awesome

Majorkill - "Is it Heresy?" Cawl "not if the Big E told me to do it"

I could imagine a World Eaters gene seed based chapter being claimed as an alleged successor chapter of Space Wolves and the Lunar Wolves being Ultra Marines.

The blood ravens may well be there remnants of the Thousand sons fleet, The Raven. Sent away by Magnus just before the fall of their homeworld. Also explains why they are a fleet based chapter. They were snuck back into the imperium, were then redeemed or forgiven by Terra and the Inquisition somehow ? But hey mysteries are fun right 😅

Correct me if I'm wrong but I vaguely remember someone saying the executioners chapter were either loyalist world eaters but labeled imperial fists or just what loyalist world eaters would be like. I know Fafnir Rann is the first high executioner and that the wiki states they are dissimilar to imperial fists and other space marines call them gore-splattered headhunters.

Thank you for talking about my chapter the Sons of the Phoenix. They never get mentioned as there really isn’t any info. Still it’s nice to see my boys made the list.

You'd think the Thousand Sons would be very interested in the Blood Ravens' geneseed as it could help them understand how to reverse the Rubric.

I kinda like theory that Blood Ravens are mix between Thousands Sons and Ultramarines geneseed. As you can always see in their game conflict between mundane humane space marine vs psyker-mage space marine. To be honest that mystery should be left untouched, it is main reason why they are interesting.

Majorkill, Please do a video on Ork Life and culture outside battles! I don’t think there is anyone more perfect to cover this than you. Like what is life day to day for an ork on a planet controlled by them? Do they build temporary societies, where do they eat, sleep, and do they just do crazy things like perform Aztec style soccer games where the losers are curb stomped at the end 😂

I think the Minotaurs are actually created by world eater geneseed as pre brain-nails world eaters did have a very spartan aesthetic plus they had the most loyal memebrs when the legion went to chaos showing how extreme their loyalty to the Imperium was (as even with brain nails, being censored and their primarch turning most still chose the Imperium). Also I've always thought the Lamentors might be a chimeric geneseed of Blood Angel and Luna Wolf geneseed. So my thought goes the mechanicus tried to "cure" the red thirst by mixing geneseed and chose the Luna Wolves because of the legions closeness before the fall, and their bad luck comes because both the Emperor and the Chaos Gods hate Horus so much that both sides are cursing any with Horus's geneseed to bad luck and shit times.

So for the Blood Ravens, the Emperor offered Magnus a new Legion under his command, and I suspect the Blood Ravens are created from that new marine geneseed, or plans for it, which is why it's so stable despite being an experiment.

Space marines: “I would follow you to hell and back” Traitor primarchs: “who told you we’re coming back

A more likely approach to the Blood Ravens Geneseed is to say that they have multiple legions Geneseed, like Imperial Fist and Thousand Sons would explain their lack of mutations and obsession with knowledge. Another theory I have is that they're the sons of the 2/11 Primarch(s). Also when did you get started on Blood Ravens lore? That "Physic Chapter Master" was Azaryia (I don't know how to spell his heretical name) Vidya (Don't know how to spell his last name either). He turned out to be super heretical, killed a lot of people, Exterminatus'ed Typhon Primaris, and became a Daemon Prince. Obviously he was banished, but this time instead of the 1st company captain(Captain Diomedes who was a puppet to the heretical Chief Librarian) taking charge, it was Gabriel Angelos of the Third Company who took command.

Interesting premise for a video. Thanks for explaining the nuances.

This is like the fourth video this week I've seen within 10 minutes of it being uploaded, it's a good week

Talk about Traitor Marines from Loyalist legions. What kind of person do you have to be to not only betray your dad but also the Emperor?

I've heard a theory that the blood ravens are descended from word bearers which can explain why they don't have the tzeentch curses in their geneseed and still have lots of psykers

The charcharadons seem to just be the Terran born raven guard, who purposefully give themselves the sable brand

Hell yeah, couldn't have put it any better.

The sons of omegon are suspected to be loyalist alpha legionares, given there name but its just vaguely hinted at. Meanwhile there are probably plenty of chapters that derive from the two lost legions, or at l'East one of the two

Yeah,for me Blood Ravens are totally "loyalist Thosuend Sons"

This is a great video. Loyalists with traitor genes has fascinated me for a while. Plus I have plans to create my own marine chapter with similar origins some day, I just haven't made it happen yet. Thanks!

Great way to wake up. Fuck yeah bro.

About the Sons of Antaeus, they may be Iron Warrior successors as well. Read the following excerpt from Deliverance Lost: ‘Take this one, sample *four,* as an indicator,’ said the genetor majoris. ‘We have managed to identify at least six unique sub-complexes and protein strands geared towards physical durability, above and beyond that found in the others. In the same sample, there is a dearth of certain enhanced genes that, in our estimation, boost the cytoarchetectonic structure responsible for the development of nociceptors and proprioceptory function.'

Oh boy have I been waiting a long time for this video!

Shame that the Blood Magpies are not long lost relatives of Trazyn the Infinite. Could of had you singing your Pokémon song again.

One clue that a Chapter is descended from a traitor legion is that, unlike most Chapters, they worship the Emperor as a god. (It's almost as if they're compensating for something…) Look through the lore, and see how many Chapters of "unknown lineage" worship the Emperor as a god. From the Badab War you have three: Red Scorpions, Star Phantoms, and Fire Hawks.

Glad you did this one again my man

That cheeky ass grin after the manscaped sponsor bit. You knew exactly what you were doing. well done

Really feel like we need a video about the Severan Dominate at this point!!!

I miss the Magpies...Wonder if they'll get another cameo in Space Marine 2.

Mate I won't let such slander against the Soul Drinkers stand. Only a true son of Dorn could open that Warp gate, and Sharpedon walked through it like a boss

When i feel stress i turn to you thanks for the vids man

I love all these chapters, thanks for the cool video Sir:)

Eyo about time, i've waited for this specific video for so long.

Firehawks are loyalists world eater successors change my mind

cawl has the ability to shut down every question of "is this heresy?" with a simple answer of "I fucking made that" *points at space marine statue*

This makes the Silver Skulls and Sons of the Phoenix far less subtle ngl

I got two honorable mentions of chapters that were alleged to have traitor gene-seed. First is the Red Scorpions. An almost forgettable chapter if Forge World did not have a hard-on for them. The Red Scorpions have a thing for purity, and their squads are even led by Apothecaries so their gene-seed can be properly extracted should a Marine fall in battle. Trying to analyze a sample of their gene-seed is also a problem, cause the Red Scorpions insist they answer only to the Emperor. Their combat doctrine also heavily implies they are descendants of Fulgrim, but again, we will never know. The other is the Storm Wardens, who are created by Fantasy Flight Games for their Deathwatch tabletop game. This one is more of a stretch, since the Storm Wardens have an emphasis on tech, given they have more Techmarines under their charge. However, given the Gaelic influences of the chapter (makes sense, the chapter is based on Scottish highlanders), their emphasis on martial honor and singles combat, the implication is that the Primarch of the Storm Wardens may be Angron. The Celts were enslaved to be gladiators during Roman times (matching Angron's own backstory), the Storm Wardens color scheme fits the pre-Heresy World Eaters (blue and white), and their "overwhelming force" doctrine matches the pre-Heresy War Hounds. I don't know, it's sketchy, but I like the idea of loyalist World Eaters and what could have been if Angron was not messed up from the get-go.

Thank you for including the Souldrinkers. They're my favourite chapter.

Hey Majorkill, i have an idea for a video! How would each Primarch fared if they had been chosen as the warmaster instead of Horus?

I am starting to be convinced that then blood ravens were the geneseed that was to replace the thousand sons geneseed. Didn't the emperor say he would give Magnus a new legion if he gets rid of his thousand sons?

God Raven Guard Legion reunions have to be super awkward between the Classics, Shark men, Undead r@pist from the Ghoul Stars, and adopted Emperor's Children. Majorkill can we get a Major Mini for Commissar Yarrick pls

Just in time. i needed this just to feel something.

Pretty cool video as always. Are we gonna have a T'au Tuesday featuring the great Ethereal Aun Shi soon. You know that you wanna do it dude

Cawl creating a Primaris Chapter using Luna Wolves geneseed would be interesting to see in lore.

5:42 Whoa they literally didn't even attempt to disguise them of having Word Bearer geneseed

The only nerd-youtube who can literally model on the side

I remember reading a lot about Soul Drinkers. Easily one of my favourite chapters

I have a small squad of Sons of the Phoenix!, but Ima give them EC iconography Im really really happy you mentioned them because in my Deathwatch army, I have loyal traitors in a squad

Been workin on a loyalist chapter made from "totally not Iron Warrior" geneseed. This helps, thanks.

Angron: NO ONE CAN DEFEAT ME! Guilliman: I know, but he can. Lion El Johnson: (does dramatic WWE entrance) Angron: Mommy!

Majorkill can you do a video on the planets of the Sol System in 40k?

The idea of loyalist marines from fallen chapters makes as much sense as loyalists falling. Two way street.

Another great video mate. I have heard the rumors of Tiberios' claws, Hunger and Slake, being the same lightning claws used by Corax but they also bear a resemblance to Mercy and Forgiveness, I think that their names. The claws of the Night Haunter. And I think it would be awesome if the Minotaurs are a successor chapter of the Iron Warriors. It would shed new light upon their staunch loyalty to the Imperium during the Baddab insurrection.

Lion model looks badass, dont like just how much they aged him though

I actually genuinely chuckled when you called the blood ravens the magpies

A idea ik you won't see this but by the small chance you do could you do top 10 near primarch tier space marines

I picked the Sons of the Phoenix for my chapter because I liked the Imperial Fists and their color scheme was cool as fuck. Now I know who they really are and that's even cooler!

The original Minotaur chapter were originally berserkers in the 32M before disappearing and reappearing in the 41M with an entirely different battle doctrine. They may have been originally Loyalist World Eaters but were unreliable and so the high lords switched to iron warriors geneseed.

The Lion when a Dark Angels sucsessor chapter's members all looks like Alpharius/Omegon: 🤔 Belisarus Cawl:😅

See now that's an interesting tac to take old chap. Interesting theme to explore I mean. Like it. I liked the way Uzas out of Night Lords trilogy used to eat his enemies gene seed. And that counter taunt he made to that Ultramarine successor thin blooded chapter. I forget the name now. Anyways he telt this pr1ck his skull would be used by his artificers as a pot for nightsoil. Awesome counter challenge. Cheers Majorkill

i can imagine cawl making loyalist world eaters and going “hah, just to fuck with the guilliman, ima equip every single one of these fuckers with sarum pattern helmets and some heresy era world eaters cadre weapons.”

We need to see that full cartwheel as it looked like it ended hilariously.

After the previous video, I can't get my head to stop thinking whether majorkill is wearing a pants or just naked. 😅

Any reason to talk about my favorite magpie's is a good reason.

This vid is awesome, I’ve always wanted to know if there were any good emperor’s children (purple’s my fav color)