@@gurururuwarararara8164 the point is that oberyn wins and if he didn't showboat, he just lives. Oberyn was very much so capable of killing him without dying, but tragedy is as it always is.
@@gurururuwarararara8164 The thing is it's pretty apparent what the gap between their martial prowess and Oberyn pretty much exceeded him in all but strength
@@gurururuwarararara8164 id say you are dumb because if you wwatch the movie you can clearly see Oberyn can kill mountain if he wanted to, its his arrogance and unawareness that lead to a sneak attack lmao
Something often overlooked is Ned very nearly chops Jaime’s head off in their fight. This is for a few reasons mainly Jaime was mostly not fighting seriously because he didn’t believe Ned could have beaten Dayne, and secondly Ned isnt just a above average swordsman he’s a soldier through and through and he’s very experienced that one move probably ends most fights and you see Jaime’s eyes light up after he dodged it. Jaime realizes Ned’s much better than he though but that’s the thing with Ned he’s not an incredible swordsman he’s just a really damn good soldier
Ned is probably in the top 10 swordsman in the North... To be fair to Ned... Problem is there are excellent swordsman in other areas as well. But ya Ned does not get enough credit
I look at it a little differently. Ned was a great warrior, he just wasn't in the same league as guys like Dayne, Jaime and Selmy. No one was really. He was most likely among the best in that next tier after those three heavyweights. There were probably only a handful of other guys who could beat Ned one on one, like the Mountain, the Hound or Oberyn.
Yeah people forget that 2 of the people Ned Stark probably spared and trained with were; his big brother,( who went by the nickname of “the Wild Wolf”) And Robert The Goat Baratheon. Who he was best friends with since boyhood and probably trained with every day (and they trained under the watch of probably whoever the best trainers in the Eyrie were)
The year is 2087, and Liam and Tom just made a: Who Could and Couldn't Defeat The Mountain | Ultra, Mega, Super, All-Included, Director's Cut, Unrated, Bonus, Enhanced, Overhauled Edition.
Valyrian swords can cut through steel. Doesn't mean they cut through it like a hot knife through butter. It's still steel. You still gotta put their proper amount of effort into it. But pretty much every time when a steel sword meets a valyrian steel sword in a prolonged duel the normal sword is covered in nicks and dents while the valyrian steel remains pristine. So yes Vakyrian steel swords can cut into plate and wear it down.
You can also hammer plate until it loses its integrity. No one is going to just sit there and let you hack at them, and by the time you make it through, you'll be too exhausted to fight.
@@Kalenz1234 his point is it exactly what he said, no one is going to let you stand there and repeatedly hit their armor in roughly the same spot to get through it, and its incredibly unwise to remain with arms reach of the mountain, to say nothing of his thicker than normal armor.
@@Kalenz1234 That warhammers are more effective at hacking and with a valyrian steel sword, you would probably die of exhaustion before you properly hack or chop the full plate armour. What a warhammer does is blunt force, that can go through the armour and break your rubs even if the armour remains in tactm with a sword you do not have the weight or the power. If you use a valyrian steel in a prolonged dual to wear off plate armour and cut through it, it is probably more likely uou get so tired you die from a mistake, your better bet is to the nimble strategy of waiting for an opening.
@Kalenz1234 To knock them off balance and peirce the mail that fills the gaps, not just hit it till it dies. My point is that a supermetal wouldn't change armored combat that much. You can't get through a bronze breastplate with steel. Why would Valyrian steel be any different. And hammers and maces were more often used from horseback than on foot.
@@3esln that's a tough one I'm going to say yes because I do think the mountain could eventually overpower the mountain even with the mountains speed advantage on the mountain
@@eh3mmbut if the mountain could tumble over the mountain perhaps the mountain could stand a chance at toppling the mountain. That is, if the mountain happens to bring a slightly less optimal tool set for dealing with the mountain.
@@eh3mmYes you make a good point there good sir. The Mountain’s same ability skills and agility will come down to luck at the end so at the end of the day the mountain can kill the mountain Lol
Fighting Gregor is like fighting Mike Tyson. Everyone boxer knows how to fight Mr. Tyson, dance around him for the first 3 or 4 rounds and take advantage of his lack of stamina. The problem with that is: you have to go three rounds with Mike fucking Tyson, and he is smart enough to know what your plan is. Knowing how to do something and having the skill to do so are very different things.
...Reminds me of a quote out of a documentary on the Roman Empire moons ago, "A legion's shield wall will break a Gaul horde in five minutes, but the legion needs to hold for those five minutes."
@35:59 A wooden practice [sword], with 0 armor, against multiple armored opponents with real swords. Can't skimp on giving Syrio credit where credit is due!
His other opponents were fodder. The only opponent of note was Ser Meryn and he broke his wooden sword in two swings. I doubt it would be any different with Gregor.
Syrio admitted to arya that he wasn't the best water dancer, as the sea lord chosen him on his outstanding awareness. While the dothraki elite possess dragonbone bows that can peirce armor. Drogo in the books is written as an absolute unit, tall, compact muscle, perceptive eyes, a panther in human skin.
@@TheFightHubb His fighting style involves the use of Rapiers. Rapiers arent much use against full plate armour especially of the kind Gregor wears. Yes I am not saying Syrio cannot get lucky and find an opening in his eye slit or throat slit. But that is extremely unlikely. Especially considering Syrio is a short man and Gregor is the tallest Man in the 7 kingdoms.
@saptarshisengupta8235 the eyes lit isn't the only weak point in his heavy armor, and syrios been in kings landing long enough to get a reputation, he's had plenty of time to measure up the weaknesses of the westerosi fighting styles and equipment with his trade mark perception. Give him a real sword and I think he dances around the mountain before before taking him down at the joints, dancing away and letting him bleed put. He shows us this strategy in his one fight, it fails on trant because he lacks a proper sword. And as he Saya to Arya "All men are made of water, do you know this? When you pierce them, the water leaks out and they die"
@4:22 "people prefer it when we reference the books." God yes, so so much. Not only because of the greater level of detail, but also because GRRM actually tells a good story, unlike D&D (see S7 and S8 for prime examples of what their writing is like with no GRRM to go off of,) and the books still have the potential to have a well-written ending
@31:50 While we're on the topic of book-to-show differences, the show version of the Mountain (or at least the last and most-appearing version of him,) is 6 feet 9 inches tall, since that's how tall Hafthor Julius Bjornsson is. The book version of the Mountain, meanwhile, is EIGHT feet tall! So not only is the book version of the mountain even bigger, heavier, and stronger than the show version, but that extra ~15 inches of height means an even-greater reach advantage (7 or 8 inches, unless he's one of the people like Michael Phelps where his wingspan is greater (or lesser) than his height,) that opponents have to overcome
I dont know, when it comes to knowing how to fight big strong opponents, Ned did spend his youth sparring with Robert Baratheon in his prime. Who was probably the strongest fastest human in westeros at the time.
Oberyn beat him in a fair match of skill The only reason Martell lost is because he was hooked by his lust for vengeance & getting the Mountain to admit to his crimes And even then, Oberyn did actually kill him, but he was revived using dark magic
So lets leave out the dragons themselves....... I mean Vermax probably wins let alone Vaghar. In the "can do it" category I think Daemon and Criston Cole are the main 2 who can win. Aemond has a rep but he is a teenager who relies on his dragon to win. Other Kinsguards like the Cargylls might have a dog in the fight, but I think it is clear that Cole and Daemon are the top of the skill pile in the HotD era.
@@spacecowboy5486 we have limited info on Cregan at this time. But I messed up by ignoring Harwin. He is big, reasonably skilled and is known for his strength. Depending on how good he is in a real fight (I don’t count the fisticuffs with Criston as he didn’t really fight back) he may have a shot.
I still think Syrio would have a chance in that Bronn and Oberyn way. He's as smart as either of them, would have heard of Ser Gregor, and would know just how to beat him. The limitation would be his weapon, as you point out. The waterdancer sword is almost certainly a rapier. These evolved to be extremely deadly, probably the single best sword for a one-on-one duel ever made. But they evolved for exactly that--one on one, no armor, no shields, etc. So he'd be at a disadvantage there. But he's fast, he's extremely skilled, he's smart, and he knows both his capabilities and limitations. Gregor has the advantage, but I would never rule Syrio out as an automatic "no way he's winning," like I would, say, Jorah or Loras. Syrio would have a decent chance, especially if he somehow loaded the dice like Oberyn did with poison.
Thank you for mentioning Garlan Tyrell. He gets left out discussions way too much. I would also be interested in seeing how the book version of both Areo Hotah and Qhorin Halfhand would fare.
22:40 I will take the wind out of that victory. Brienne had no business beating the Hound in a fair fight. The Hound has more size, more strength, probably more skill, and more grit. Especially once it became a slug match, 1 punch from the Hound would knock out all of Brienne's teeth and she'd be out for the count. Instead she ate like 5 haymakers. Ridiculous.
The man was suffering from sepsis at the time, rough terrain for sleep, bad food and beaten up gear, while Brienne was healthy, well fed, and in custom made properly suited armour that was kept in good nick by her squire. She had every advantage in the fight going in, and it still came down to a coin toss in the end.
One thing. It would be a quite a feat for Jamie, being about 6 feet tall, to stab someone in the eye who is 8 feet tall. Also, moves like that are made when the opponent is right next to you and the opponent is too close to use long blades effectively. But that would mean to be in a grabbing range of the mountain, and that's instantly bad news. That's why Oberyn stayed back, until made a mistake of not.
Greatswords as battlefield weapons were designed to break the enemy's pole weapons at the shaft and usually used against formations. They weren't really designed as anti-armor or to be wielded as regular swords. Blunt weapons were, however, ideal for anti-armor. But, like greatswords, they were much lighter than their tv and movie counterparts. Also, some blunt weapons like warhammers, had two "sides" one in hammer form, ideally to bend the armor and make it easier to penetrate. And the other in a point shape to deliver a piercing blow to the already weakend armor.
After finishing the first book, I asked my (now ex)wife if the Great John would have have been a match for the Mountain. She just laughed and said, "Nah, the Mountain would kill him."
syrios been in kings landing long enough to get a reputation, he's had plenty of time to measure up the weaknesses of the westerosi fighting styles and equipment with his trade mark perception. Give him a real sword and I think he dances around the mountain before before taking him down at the joints, dancing away and letting him bleed out. He shows us this strategy in his one fight, it fails on trant because he lacks a proper sword. And as he Says to Arya "All men are made of water, do you know this? When you pierce them, the water leaks out and they die"
Not that I'm claiming Jorah would make a big chance, but I think you do him a little dirty and underestimate him. He's very skilled and smart, I would even put him and the mountain in the same category qua skill. But the mountain's strengt puts him miles ahead and Jorah doesn't have the speed, dark killer instinct, or guile in a fight to make up for it, so he's deff out
"I have seen a hundred tournaments and more wars than I would wish, and however strong or fast or skilled a knight may be, there are others who can match him. A man will win one tourney, and fall quickly in the next. A slick spot in the grass may mean defeat, or what you ate for supper the night before. A change in the wind may bring the gift of victory. Or a lady's favor knotted round an arm." - Ser Barristan Selmy The author keeps telling you that the winner of a duel/battle will be whoever he wants it to be but y'all will persist in beating this thoroughly dead horse...
Fight ideas 1.Tormund Giantsbane vs Khal Drago 2.Daeron I vs Oberyn Martel 3.Daemon Blackfyre vs Jaimie Lannister 4.The DragonKnight Aemon Targaryen vs The Dawn of the Morning Arthur Dane vs Christen Cole
Am a hard-core Ned Stark fan and I agree with this judgement. I do believe though as a man of honor if he knew his family was at stake that he would kaioken like Goku.
Ser Barriston, for sure. He'd be a pretty smart bet against pretty much anyone. He could possibly lose, but you'd never be called stupid for betting on him.
In the Ultimate Edition, you should talk about how Criston Cole would get his s**t wrecked by The Mountain, because that would be really satisfying for most of the fandom
Been following hotd season 2 and I find cole the most insufferable charachter of the show. Yes his downfall started in season 1 already but he is somehow worse the more the show goes on😂
@ghostsdragon9222 I would love that..... eventually. The one issue would be for characters like Dunk, we haven't seen him at his best because that time period will be covered in future Dunk & Egg stories (or so we must pray.) We know that Dunk eventually fought and defeated Lyonel Baratheon in a trial by combat, so that's impressive, and Dunk was definitely always very large and strong, but I feel like we need more information on how skilled of a fighter he eventually became. There is 47 years between "The Mystery Knight" and Dunk's death that we know barely anything about
@@The_Malcontented Like I do like to see a Char like Aemon Targaryen the Dragon Knight considered to be the best Kingsguard who ever lived and maybe his only rival would be Barristan Selmy. And i think the only edge Aemon has on Selmy his sword valryian steel sword Darksister
Much less known character but I wonder about that “Then” wildling, he had a massive double headed axe and was pretty psycho. The guy who Tormond said “I f***ing hate then’s” about.
"the times we have seen valyrian steel/dawn go through armour effortlessly in the story has been against light armour, not plate." thats wrong, the type of armour ned is wearing is called a "coat of plates" . it is essentially two layers of leather with a thin plate sandwhiched (?sp?) in between them. chuck in that you can clearly see he's wearing chain mail under that , then its not really all that light is it.
Ice was a ceremonial weapon, likely only to be used in combat by Gregor himself and maybe the GreatJon. Ned would have been well trained by the Master at Arms at Winterfell since childhood and had actual combat experience. Book Ned is nearly 15 years younger than show Ned as well. In the books Ned and Rodrik Cassel were sat on their asses in the training yard of Winterfell by Bronze Yohn Royce a 6'8 beast of a man said to be as big and strong as Sandor. Bobby B's Warhammer was the perfect weapon against Gregor. They are designed to cause massive concussive damage beneath armour. Bobby B's was the biggest Warhammer ever made, a massive 2 hander yielded by a 6'6 powerhouse. He would have had reach, leverage and power enough to do extreme damage even through armour as thick as Gregor's. Interesting fact, Hafthor Bjornsson weighed about 370-380 pound during the show and gets up to 440 during his powerlifting comps so he out weighs book Gregor by 20 pounds. That's a seriously large human being.
I suppose that what might be important is that some people are mismatched against very specific opponents. I think Oberyn was well suited to fight the mountain because he would never feel the weight of his massive blade. The mountain is deadly because if he hits you, you are screwed. Oberyn was just too fast to make contact. I think there are fighters fast enough to deflect oberyn and defeat his foot work who also couldnt defeat the mountain because they are trained to cross blades and his sheer strength when doing so would knock their weapon out of their hand. I think Jamie would struggle against the mountain but could probably take oberyn.
I do wonder what would've happened if Loras was sent instead of Beric. I can't imagine the Tyrells would side with the Lannisters at all of Gregor killed Loras...
Grey worm has no feats, he’s just a glorified unsullied prob a decent bit better then the average unsullied but in no way is he in the same league as Selmy
I still think Tyrion has a little lions chance at rolling around and chopping his legs until the mountain fell like I outlined in my suggestion (why not throw in some milk of the poppy to spike Greagor's wine first while we're at it) and now that I think about it this is Tywin's creation and favorite enforcer, it really adds up in favor of the demon monkey. Fight me!
Greetings - just something to the waterdancer sword - it can either be a triangular rapier (a bloody deadly thing to use against gaps in armor) or an Estoc - a super slim Longsword that is designed to pierce.
You guys are way off on Strong Belwas: the feat we see in the books is him defeating the city’s champion while the champion was on horseback. He is shown to have the agility to do this, and is known as STRONG belwas, so clearly he is a brute with great agility. His lack of armor is not even an issue, how many times did The Vipers armor protect him? The whole point is you can’t let Gregor hit you. Your point about him getting cut by his opponents is fair, but it’s not like he just stands there and let’s whatever attack land on him. Once Gregor is tired he could just use his buckler to deflect a swing and let it graze him.
Is there any reality where The Mountain is an actually good person? Or was he always just going to end up evil because that’s just how his personality works
Mountain. Unless it is a steel braced crossbow with a mechanical loading mechanism (a heavy warfare crossbow which is not something a peasant hunter would have), you aren't getting through his crazy heavy armor. That leaves the peasant to gap shots. And that means they get one lucky shot before getting cleaved. Once again assuming 1v1 arena fights without cover and terrain. Crossbows also fire slower than bows.
Prime Jaime, prime Barristan, Arthur Dayne, Oberyn, the Hound and probably that's it. I guess I would give Brienne, Drogo, prime Robert, prime Rheagar, Daemon, Criston Cole, Jon Snow, Bronn some chances but my money would be on the montain.
Agreed with a lot of the analysis on armor and weapon choices...the problem with story armor is it ACTUALLY plot armor....it is as strong or as weak as the story demands.... Jonah vs the Bloodrider...they displayed how effective plate armor is..... 4 fully plated knights rushing The Hound down stairs right before the Clegane Bowl and he carves through them in one swing a piece.
