Why Arctozolt Had To Be Banned 3 Times 

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Ah yes, the Quagsire conundrum.

@@Hyperneosonic97 and seismitoad

@@artimist0315 Ehh... not really. Seismitoad's always just been a worse Gastrodon.

@@Hyperneosonic97 It the other way around, Semitoads almost always prefer over Gastrodon besides gen5

Lol

Arcozolt in Gen 8 going on the rollercoaster

More like 'hail' no I'll leave now

@@frozenoutsideoctober818 no no you can stay I like puns

@@frozenoutsideoctober818 Hey! Stay around and *chill* with us man! Actually...why don't I join ya?

@@astralguardian5930 that's just the icing on th- No, that's a bad joke, I'm not even finishing it

@@Pixelusuallythat joke was honestly kinda nICE

Yeah it's weird how they ended up together. Dracozolt certainly had a head-start but Arctozolt caught up in the hail!

@@foofootoo it caught up using Slush Rush

Always liked the Zolts more tbh, not even from just a competitive standpoint but design one. Dracozolt just looks so happy!

@@angrycinnabon2956 Dracovish looks so fucking cursed and it's funny lmao

@@MLGProMaster-tu9tz and then there's Arctovish, who is so damn close to being normal but sadly his head was rotated in the wrong direction. I pity him.

The type coverage in its STABs is crazy good, and Bolt Beak is insane

It’s somewhere between incredibly strong and pathetically weak. It all depends on the rule set- if Snow Warning is allowed then it’s a sweeper, otherwise it’s practically PU.

It's Stab and Coverage is good so

We now have i think 2 Galarian Fossil Pokemon Banned i think. Arctozolt w/Bolt Beak, and Dracovish w/Fishious Rend i think.

Yeah Pilo was the niche check to it that became mainstream, hail was too threatening to ignore, and Arctozolt's coverage was too insane

@@foofootoo I can add in addition to that statement. Arctozolt unlike the other pokemon on the banslate you mentioned was available to us in NU directly at Crown Tundra thanks to the ability patch. We couldn't have really banned it right away despite knowing well enough that it was broken. It's standard to wait if we know a big wave of tier changes are about to hit us anyways in a near future. Thus for that time Piloswine climbed to massive usage to check a near singular obvious broken threat. Even after the ban, you explained it quite well, we had other options like Arctovish. Initially, you didn't add this aspect to it. Arctovish itself has Aurora Veil, and this tied into why we banned Aurora Veil. The last gen way of using Aurora Veil involved setting hail with a setter, potentially sacking the setter, and than going to a weather abuser with Auroa Veil (Sandslash-alola, but now in this gen also Arctovish) and maintaining offensive pressure to assure Veil. This gen we gained Vish to do that, but also weather setters with Aurora Veil in Aurorus/Abomasnow creating variety in Stealth Rocks or outs to Fat water pokemon respectively while setting Hail. This combo was so oppressive that the sole answer to this set up was Vaporeon as Vish needed Life Orb Freeze Dry with investment to 2HKO that, which ment you couldn't run Light Clay either. And for just 2 team slots you had a solid opening, screen support without loss of momentum, and potentially Stealth Rocks and set up in someones face with up to 4 set up pokemon making even Turtonator a valid threat. Even with the at-the-time limited list of set up pokemon we had concerns to follow up with bans on Veil at some point. Though these concerns are split from the time stamps of Arctozolts oppressive introductions as they lingered during that instead.

Then you realize it can learn surf …

Wait Piloswine? Not Mamoswine? Is it because of Eviolite?

@@elmago2808 I was talking about NU. Arctozolt and Piloswine were allowed in NU. Mamoswine wasn't. Because it belongs in UU

That speed difference is pretty frustrating

That's what snow cloak Articuno is for (doesn't actually do anything for most of the match, just sits there to mess with lando)

That is the most painful, infuriating edge case I've ever seen. I love it

Alolan sandslash doesn't have the same issue, but the fact that steel ice is such a bad combo for coverage and quad weaknesses, as well as being solely physical, really nerfs it compared to arc. Shame because it's my favourite mon :(

@@Almond19912 it's quad damage with double weakness. Not a quad weakness. The damage output would be so much crazier on quad weakness. It would also mean attacks themselves have finally become multi type.

Yes it's super strong, but in very specific circumstances

@@foofootoo and that’s what makes it so much better than the likes of Dracovish or zacian

And it's also why Stealth Rock is so broken. It's too easily implemented

@@mysticmongrel1289 well, it's no longer broken really, but it took a lot ot make it not broken

@@darko-man8549 It's still broken. If you need to keep introducing new tools to counter one thing, it's broke as fuck

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What does nu pu ru uubl mean?

@@EliteDiamond. NU is NeverUsed, which is a tier for Pokémon with pretty low usage. PU is a tier lower than it, and it supposedly means "pee-yeew", as in "Pokémon that really stink in competitive play". RU is RarelyUsed, which is Pokémon that, by usage, are, well, rarely used. Finally, UUBL is UnderUsed Ban List, Pokémon not allowed in UnderUsed.

@@EliteDiamond. To add on to what the above reply said, the tiers in descending order are: - Anything Goes/AG: A tier that exists solely because of Mega Rayquaza. It means there are no restrictions on anything whatsoever. - Ubers: The ultimate ban tier before Anything Goes. Most if not all of the Pokémon here could singlehandedly dominate any lower tier, requiring them to be put up here with their fellow abominations of strength. - OverUsed/OU: The primary competitive tier, with plenty of variety in its roster and a healthy metagame... most of the time. - UnderUsed/UU: Pokémon in this tier are *decent,* but unable to properly thrive in OU. - RarelyUsed/RU: To my knowledge, this tier didn't always exist, but after later generations added so many Pokémon of varying power levels that there was now a clear gap between UU and NU, RU was created to fill that void. - NeverUsed/NU: Until Gen 6, the absolute lowest tier to have an actual metagame. Pokémon in this tier, save for a few niche cases, would be ground to dust in OU. - PU: Like the previous reply said, PU isn't an acronym, it's just a joke about how everything in this tier stinks. Created in Gen 6 after Mega Evolution, Fairy-types, and other sources of powercreep caused formerly decent mons to drop to NU, so the mons that were already in NU and some Untiered mons got sent to a new bottom tier. - Untiered/ZU: If a Pokémon is absolutely unusable, not even having any advantageous niches it can exploit in a Singles format, this is where it ends up. There is no Untiered metagame, though the introduction of PU allowed a few lucky mons to escape this realm of obscurity. - Little Cup: If a mon is Untiered-level trash solely on account of being the first stage in an evolutionary line, it winds up here, in a metagame surrounded by other first-stagers. Some first-stage mons can still be so powerful they get banned to one of the big boy tiers. - BL (either BanList or BorderLine depending on who you ask): I don't know if every tier has its own BL or if that's only a UU thing, hence why I separated it from the rest of the tiers. A Pokémon in BL is both too good for the tier it's been banned from, and unable to achieve viability in the next tier up, leaving it in a sort of limbo. Remember that void I mentioned RU being created to fill? This is that void.

@@Leet-iz2fz this is genuinely an extremely good overview of smogon tiers

Very true, that Pokémon is weirdly viable in a ton of tiers

@@foofootoo QUAGSIRE MAKING ZACIAN CRY

I remember when False Swipe Gaming covered Quagsire. They didn't even know what to make of it. Viable, but not too viable everywhere but Little Cup, and for that you could use Wooper.

It has the second best defensive typing, an amazing ability that stops setup sweepers, and a recovery move. That’s all it needs to find a niche in literally any tier at any given time.

Quagsire is the one Pokemon that just ignores the tiering system becuase of how epic it is. One day it's a PU mon, the next day it's in Ubers.

All the others are banned in high tiers. Arctovish has dropped out of the lowest tier 😔

@@foofootoo They done him dirty (Even if Dracozolt is my favorite)

@@foofootoo Well to be honest from Arctovish's point of view, it probably looked like they were going up a tier.

Well at least Armaldo, Bastiodon, Rampardos and Cradily still suck more. Maybe even Carracosta too.

@@mipho5899 in trickroom rampardos is a beast!

For sure, I think Arctozolt slipped under a lot of people's radar!

Yeah that's fair, it's an intimidating playstyle to face-off against atm for sure

I haven’t seen much at all

@@looneyloonatic Maybe you didn't, can't talk for you as I don't know how much you play, where on the ladder you are or if it's just stastics being at play, but Hail is currently maybe the strongest weather, feels so wrong to even utter those words to be honest (I personally think so but as always Rain is still quite viable so some might argue for it, I'd say that Hail has a better overall match up against many teams compared to Rain). It's actually insane to think about but Hail is now legit even though it was always thought off as the worst weather (granted ......... Hail might currently be the third most viable weather in gen 5 imo as well. Not because Hail is suddenly good there but because Sun is absolutely and utterly unviable and Ninetales is absolutely and positively useless whereas Abomasnow is low key not bad and Kyurem is as always a threat and a half especially with universal chip)

@@sephikong8323 Kanto ninetails has always been shit lmao. Also what about torkal gen 5? (Edit: Just remembered that torkal did not had drought in gen 5).

@@looneyloonatic This part month I’ve seen a little less Bc ppl are adapting to it, but it’s been so commonplace since the summer

Yeah I find it so interesting! I don't play all the smogon tiers, but I like reading up which random Pokémon is having a surge in usage in any tier!

@@foofootoo Absolutely, they are monsters after all, got to catch them all. Not just that, ever since Gen 2 the level of customization has been near limitless making some able to completely counter a steamrolling sweeper (without hazards). Like Sudowoodo as much shit as some will give it for its speed, has the greatest potential to catch people off guard with Counter, Wood Hammer, especially in a trick room. Or you could Power Trick Baton Pass via Gliscor or Gligar in Gen 7 (not 8 since it isn't there). Something to look into along with maybe the move Gravity. For real, Gravity would guarantee a move never misses by adding 30 in accuracy for all on the field while revoking flying and levitation Pokémon since Telekinesis was removed for Sword and Shield. So many moves, so little time to explore fully.

More like beakzard

That's a really good comparison! Venomoth is a very interesting Pokemon.

It's definitely interesting to see how long it took for Arctozolt's true potential to be found

[insert that quote about strong and weak pokemon i can't be bothered to look up right now]

It got better once it could access its Hidden Ability, otherwise it would stay below UU.

Teaches Smogon*

@@RandalfElVikingo you know the people who figured out arctozolt was viable were top smogon tournament players, right?

Ice types are very good this generation! Not least Galarian Darmanitan - this is a shining example of the fact that typing is only a small part of what makes a Pokemon viable

@@foofootoo Exactly! Before I knew anything about the metagame for SwSh, I took one look at Galarian Darmanitan's ability and was like, "holy crap 2 choice items that's broken!"

I think bug and some other types were cobsidered even worse. Mamoswine and Weavile showed already that ice can be really helpfull for offensive mons, while other types are simply plain bad Bug for example, the only good thing about bug, is that it has 2 usefull resists with Fighting and Ground, sadly it gets demolished by its rock weakness and more importantly: Its offensively really bad too The only mon wich really utilizided bug as a type was scizor with Stab Uturn and good type combo with steel, most other bug types didnt even use bug type moves, Volcarona for examplebused HPGround or psychic or gigadrain.

The problem with Ice type has always been it's defensive viability. Ice types have way too many weaknesses and they're all very common ones, but only resists itself. That combined with the poor survivability stat wise endemic to the type and you have the platonic ideal of a glass cannon, which would be ok if Ice types didn't tend to also be slow. Outliers exist, Weavile is fast, Regice is SDef tanky, and Avalugg is Def tanky, but they're very vulnerable to counterplay. Anything Weavile doesn't 1hko will 1hko it instead, Regice has poor Def and Fighting/Rock/Steel weaknesses, and Avalugg has poor SDef and Fire/Steel weaknesses. A strong offensive presence could threaten all of them regardless of their stats if it had SE moves and Speed. Ice/Water has always seemed to perform well for survival though. But that feels more like them just being Bulky Water Types with the Ice type detracting from their survivability unless Hail was in play or you needed some SE STAB to scare off bulky Grass or Dragon counters.

@@duddude321 I never tried to argue ice is a good typey sorry for the missunderstanding. I mainly just tried to say that ice types are bad, but really still not the worst. Other types like bug have nearly nothing they gain from their typing, while ice atleast gives the user an excellent Stab So I basically just ment ice types suck, but still less than other types because they are atleast good offensively I dont think Ice+Water is that good. Ice is near impossible to get played defensively, being weak to stealth rocks already makes you a bad defensive mon usually, but if you combine it with 4 weaknesses and only 2 resists all hope is lost to work defensively. Since you can only use ice offensively, you need a typing which gives offensive coverage and water is not one of them, water types still resist both your stabs and water only helps with fore types offensively (and there isnonly 1 defensive fore type even slightly used) Because of that good typings to Ice are Ground and Electric, because both stabs together get redisted by no type in the game and only a hand full of dual types

I because that mon still look stupid as hell But that's the point

Yeah I really like that suggestion

@@foofootoo Thank you!

The problem with that suggestion is that it make the gap of weather based hail abusers bigger to the ones with weaker or no-weather related abilities. Why run a Walrein when Vanilluxe can do more damage, is faster and with the new gained defense boost hits harder. This issue is already apparent in Rock-types where Tyranitar and Gigalith almost exclusively distance themselves from the rather small list of other Rock-types. Ice-types their current lack of defensive type matchups is the main crux of the typing as the majority of Ice-types in the francise are slow, and all the ones currently viable are offensively oriented attackers in Darmanitan-Galar having an absurd ability combined with good offense, Mamoswine, Kyurem, Weavile and Slush Rush hail abusers + Setters. Even their addition of Aurora Veil didn't help Ice-types, it instead helped Hail and set up spam as it enabled teams to run 2 pokemon as a core to assure Aurora Veil in a weather setter and weather abuser for speed controll but also to set Veil on their end. This gen the setter of Hail can also set Veil for all weather setters, not just Ninetales-Alola. Meanwhile Glaceon, Walrein, Avalugg, Dewgong, Cryogonal, ..., you name it, remained equally bad as there were before. If they intend on making those pokemon better, they are almost forced to buff the weather related abilities they have, which almost all Ice-types do, like say Slush Rush for Glaceon, or they would have to add resistances for Ice-type. Even new pokemon like Mime-Galar to Mr. Rime losing speed on evolution or Frosmoth being the slowest of the moth/butterflies, they intend on making them slower, than also compensate their defensive utilities to at the very least work by type.

ice type need a normal amount of resistance and weaknesses(3 weaknesses) and 3-5 resistances instead of 4 weaknesses and 1 resist

@@vitortakara7090 Rock types have lots of weaknesses and are solid. The problem is that ice should resist water too

The problem with using it in Trick Room teams seems mainly that Trick Room works best in doubles, and Arctozolt just doesn't combo well with Trick Room setters like Indeedee and Dusclops. At best, you'd sweep with Hatterene and have Arctozolt as a backup.

Yeah that threw me off guard

Trust me, thats very common

Isn't he talking about how it would be able to handle volt switches with it's ability

@@spookymoss5091 He did mention that, but while explaining he said it had the "Static or Volt Switch abilities", and seconds later he said "Volt Switch was always the preferred option". It's at 2:14. I updated my original comment with the timestamp as well. :p

@@LinkNinjaMaster I think you typo'd ur original comment and added a 1 in front that shouldn't be there?

That Pokémon is hilarious 😁

I mean,its Bibarel,the evolution of God himself so i dont know what you were expecting

That's fair, they all have such character!

@@foofootoo while there are some other fossil mons I really like, I have to say that the galar ones are pretty unique... sad, but definitely stand out in both design and "feel" to them ^^

You can't get any better than, a pokemon that is an affront to god eventually having to be sent up to their tier

Yeah it's usually bulky Pokemon that happens too, stuff like Quagsire or Mandibuzz can be in NU/PU, then rocket to OU when they're used as a check to one specific Pokemon. It does seem strange...

I mean, you need to use something to separate the tiers.

@@natnew32 I think voting is a better way then usage to move mons back up a tier. High usage in a tier above doesn't allways mean broken in current tier. it's like FooFoo said, it happens alot to bulky mons (mandibuzz, amoonguss, ... ) who suddenly spike in popularity in higher tiers because they find a specific niche for that pokemon (otherwise why did it go down in the first place) In a similar fashion I do not think slush rush should have been banned. the fossils are the offenders, but don't come tell me that slush rush beartic is the pinnacle of overpowered in RU. It's the combination of slush rush + bolt beak/fishious rend that was broken. Now, I understand why they ban the way they do. It's easier to do a simple ban, it's less complicated coding, complexity doesn't allways improve gameplay, etc. However, in certain cases a complex ban should be prefered IMO. If Arctozolt was UU to begin with, then I wouldn't be opposed to a simple ban. You'd only be affecting 1 tier at that point so a simple ban would do the trick and remove the problem from the tier it's currently in. What I don't like is that now a tier higher up the list has a problem because of a niche situation, a niche that isn't present in the lower tiers due to certain restrictions more justifiable as it had multiple offenders. In this case I strongly believe a complex ban is more preferable as it is not 1 single thing that makes arctozolt too strong, but instead a combination of factors. In UU you could have banned multiple pieces of the puzzle and achieved the same thing: No arctozolt + bolt beak No arctozolt + slush rush No Arctozolt + Snow Warning user in same team They all would have had the same effect as banning Arctozolt from UU but with the benefit of allowing Arctozolt in the lower tiers. Out of the 3 it is obvious that arctozolt + slush rush is the best complex ban as smogon allready banned slush rush in all tiers lower, therefor that's the one that if you would do complex bans, you should go with. But in the end, I'm not the one in charge, so all I feel is a sense of missed opportunity and sadness for the lower tiers who lose a fun toy for something out of their control.

@@DJarr216 The thing is, if you use usage rating for moving down but not up, it can become completely arbitrary whether or not a pokemon exists in a tier. What if a pokemon in a higher tier would be fine in a lower tier, however their usage in the higher tier prevents them from dropping? Well they can't drop, can they? This is exactly the same situation as Arctozolt, the only difference is that the pokemon hasn't been in the lower tier before this time. And yet the result isn't the same. Why? Why do pokemon suggenly get grandfathered into tiers that their usage DOES NOT imply they should get into? Other pokemon don't get the same treatment. Also, "UnderUsed" refers to pokemon that aren't used as much (in the tier above), so why is a pokemon that does get used frequently in the tier above allowed to stay? It goes against the tiering philosophy.

@@natnew32 You don't get my point, honestly. Usage is a good measurement to determine relative individual strenght. If it is too weak, it doesnt see usage, therefor it drops. Pokemon who get banned are deemed to be too strong. Now say usage in RU rises again for a pokemon but the NU counsil does not think a ban is warranted. That means that the community as a whole doesnt think said pokemon is too strong therefor there is reason to keep it down. Yout argument about a pokemon with enough usage to prevent dropping maybe being weak enough is valid BUT if you do it for one you have to do it for all which means endless testing. The tiering system works best from the top down, rather then the bottom up. You could argue that overused is a poorly chosen name as is could lead you to think the opposite is true. It is too good, therefor it is overused. Pokemon with a niche role in higher tiers are what i would call the equivalent of tech cards in card games. If you look at their statistics you see something interesting. In matchups where there effect is usefull they overpreform compared to their average matchup. In this case arctozolt in an environment where snow warning and slush rush are both allowed it overperformes which is what warranted the ban. Take away the perfect combo and its usage crumbles. Evidence that without the perfect environment it is weak. Now if you look at combo decks in card games, you will sometimes see a combo that is too good to keep existing. If you then ask the playerbase which part of the combo is the problem then you allmost never get a unanymous answer. And what happened? RU said that snow warning was the problem. That wasn't the awnser cuz suddenly slush rush is the problem. Then the problem extents to UU and they then decide that is in fact arctozolt itself who is the problem. But we know artozolt sucks if you take away the thing that makes it broken. So then why ban arctozolt as a whole? It's the equivalent of using a nuclear missile to kill a fly.

Thanks! Yeah, Ice/Electric is such a cool concept too

Thanks for the comment!

They are also silly and unnecessary and owning one provides no utility.

@@foofootoo wasting money for snotty snobs the art is mostly terrible as well

As with all expensive art, they're also used for money laundering.

That sounds super fun! I like that you can save the Z-Move for a Subzero Slammer if you don't need the extra speed too!

Sounds cool. You could run something like adamant 120 speed to outspeed 110 base scarfers and have some bulk left.

Wich item did you run?

@@arnenesbye2420 you need the icium z to use an ice z move

@@arnenesbye2420 Icium-Z

No problem!

Why do people keep trying to think of "ways to buff Slow Start"? Like? Do y'all not comprehend Regigigas' lore or something? Slow Start is because it's taking a while to take up after being you know a slumbering giant for thousands of years, you're gonna take a while to get up after that Like yeah Gigas sucks because of his ability but that's literally the whole point. He's not SUPPOSED to be good. He'/s a loremon, not a fighting one

@@SnoFitzroy I think you might have a "slow start" mentally. My suggestion is to "you know" make Regigigas's temporary "slow start" advantageous. Being slower would benefit Regi, because of the physics of "trick room" (where slower Pokemon have priority). Activating a temporary trick room upon entry is a unique addition to an ability which also temporarily cuts the user's stats. WTF are you even talking about "Loremon"? You do realize that Pokemon can have lore, & not "suck", right? And you're acting as if they haven't been improving upon Pokemon to make them better (& competitively more viable). And, the pre-existing Pokemon already has its lore, design, moves, fan-base, etc. , so it makes far more business sense to improve upon it, than to completely create a new one.

Hail is so underrated in the draft format

Yeah Quagsire just does what it wants lol

Glad you like the content!

Exeggutor is the only Pokémon with skill swap and chlorophyll together

That sounds very fun!

If opposing weather setters are interfering Not sure if this will work Groudon holding lagging tail Fast prankster user holding selected item using Switcheroo or trick

@@erics802 Actually that would do good against opposing weather. When you swap drought to the other pokemon it activates and makes it sunny again, so it would reset the turn you swap

I believe it’s because Rain is banned in lower tiers. Barraskewda isn’t very good without it.

@@user-kk8cj8pg1u barraskewda is still very good without rain It keeps shifting tiers because it is the premier rain sweeper

@@Haroldino If weather got banned Barra would stay in RU. He’s not very good without rain. Too frail.

True, it's been all over

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I know, I was trying to say how it was useful to block Volt Switch but got tongue tied lol

Rock is like Ice (too many weakness) but the STAB Rock is quite bad (mainly due to low accuracy) compared to STAB Ice

It's a reasonable idea! They would have to have a Brave nature, and there still might be some Pokemon that would be natural slower, but it could be worth testing

Seems dope! Test it :)

@@emilysmith2965 Sure thing! I'll give it a test run later tonight.

"frozen woodstock" LMLAO

Cute, Powerful and Ice type, they are perfect (Arctozolt has no gender so I use they)

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the problem is that they don't need to switch, they can just stay in and destroy the poor thing

Specific niche: Beating over 90% of the pokemon while under hail. Doesn't seem too specific to me.

It is a specific niche because not many Slush Rush Pokémon can do that. And it specifically is a Slush Rush Pokémon because any other Hail-dependent ability is useless. You have Alolan Sandslash and Arctozolt. By typing alone, Alolan Sandslash is out because Fire attacks, Ground attacks, and Fighting attacks are common everywhere. Furthermore, Ice/Steel is not a potent offensive combo which is what you need to do good as an Ice type, or otherwise be fast. Also, Alolan Sandslash has to set up to be good, while under hail Arctozolt is fast and hits hard, requirements for a good Ice type barring Froslass (and it too hits hard). There is no reason to not use Arctozolt as your Slush Rush sweeper in OU, and there is no reason to use anything else.

@@iantaakalla8180 I mean, there is A reason to use alolaslash, namely, its speed and movepool are much better than arctozolt, letting it outspeed zeraora, scarf lando, scarf blacephalon, scarf kartana, and its steel coverage lets it ohko physdef clef, now, these benefits don't outweigh the downsides, namely, losing to corviknight, but they do exist.

It's a pretty unique case!

They don't stand for anything. PU is so called because it sounds like pee-ewe, basically calling the Pokemon stinky and not good. ZU is so called since it is the last letter, indicating this is the lowest tier.

@@foofootoo Ah, i see. That's actually quite interesting and now it all makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Much appreciated.

@@foofootoo PU = Poorly Used, ZU = Zero Used